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11. Timo Werner


Jas
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Pass to Kai today was brilliant and should have had another assist when Ziyech shat the bed . 
He is not without his qualities but with his confidence also his runs get worse. He was not even looking for the chances today that is what worries me

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Werner has never been the most clinical of players. Last season in the Bundesliga he recorded 20 big chances missed, only second to Lewandowski at 24. That said, it comes with the territory. He's

Really taking the piss now 

he has a real mentality off the field but also different level on it. Hard doesn't faze him, but he's a killer, he is going to get tons of goals this season.

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4 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

He was not even looking for the chances today that is what worries me

EH? He had 3 shots today. He still made the runs into the penalty area and there were a few times as well that the final pass did not come off to him.

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Posted (edited)
hace 6 horas, Jas dijo:

Here's the one big difference though, how many players in the past joined a new club and then had to adapt to a new club, league, country while in the middle of a pandemic and a relentless schedule? 

Not every player is the same and not everyone adapts quickly. Off the top of my head, you have someone like Cancelo looking average in his first season with Man City and now looking like a completely different and better player in his second season. Moreover, Werner isn't the only new signing in the team who have not performed consistently this season. Havertz and Ziyech are other examples. The only mitigating circumstance they have had is injury and COVID, in Havertz's case.

The pressure playing for Chelsea is still different from RB Leipzig and Germany. For Leipzig, yeah, they are expected to win most games etc but no one really expects them to challenge for the major trophies and win them. It's like with Leicester here. They are the favorites in most games but if they don't win them, don't win trophies, no one is gonna pile on them compared to us. One loss here, one failure there, we would be hearing for days, weeks etc. Agree with the Germany bit but playing for Germany only happen once every few months. Still different than when you have the world watching you every week etc.

True regarding COVID etc but still think we should be expecting more! 

Re Cancelo tbf this is true, but he also played predominantly at LB and his best position is on the right. He is a superior FB though and I cannot believe it took a year for Pep to see that he is better than Walker. Like I am baffled. At Juventus and even Inter he was potentially a top top player.

And aye all the new signings bar Mendy, Chilwell (has had ups and downs though, today he was caught napping a few times) and Silva have struggled. Ziyech and Werner have been disappointing for us. Havertz I can see a bit more improvement from early on but still think he had the issue of being played out of position. I think Tuchel has found his best role, hes either a false 9 or similar to Thomas Mueller of old. Sort of floats around finding space. If you fix him down as a 8 or a winger like Lampard did he struggles. Where as Timo unfortunately he seems to be one step fwd then one or two backwards at times. He did impress me today in elements of his game but now v Madrid he has to retain that level of performance.

Edited by OneMoSalah
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1 minute ago, OneMoSalah said:

True regarding COVID etc but still think we should be expecting more! 

Re Cancelo tbf this is true, but he also played predominantly at LB and his best position is on the right. He is a superior FB though and I cannot believe it took a year for Pep to see that he is better than Walker. Like I am baffled. At Juventus and even Inter he was potentially a top top player.

And aye all the new signings bar Mendy and Silva have struggled. Ziyech and Werner have been disappointing for us. Havertz I can see a bit more improvement from early on but still think he had the issue of being played out of position. I think Tuchel has found his best role, hes either a false 9 or similar to Thomas Mueller of old. Sort of floats around finding space. If you fix him down as a 8 or a winger like Lampard did he struggles. Where as Timo unfortunately he seems to be one step fwd then one or two backwards at times. He did impress me today in elements of his game but now v Madrid he has to retain that level of performance.

Said this before, some leeway should be given to the new signings this season really. This season has not been a normal season.

And you think Werner will start on Wednesday? You would start him? 

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hace 2 minutos, Jas dijo:

Said this before, some leeway should be given to the new signings this season really. This season has not been a normal season.

And you think Werner will start on Wednesday? You would start him? 

If he plays like 2nd half today, yes, I would consider starting him. Because not only was his play good at times, he actually looked more confident. Ok first half he didn’t impress and had a few scraps that maybe if he was on his toes he may have gotten contact on etc but nobody did play well either bar Mendy, Kai, the CBs and Mount (going forward anyway, left Billy with a lot of ground to cover as if he thought he was playing with Kante...).

I get Timo did the same v WHam then was pretty shit/frustrating in the first leg in Spain but I suppose it depends on what Tuchel’s thinking. I mean are we going to go for the jugular? Or try be a bit more cautious and play on the break? Personally felt the front three we seen against Madrid last leg worked, and he was part of it. Madrid wont play as bad as last time either so I couldn’t really say 100% start him or 100% don’t start him. If we want to sit off them at home (very dangerous as they know if they get a goal its difficult for us), he will play with same front 3 I think that he did in Spain to play on transitions. If he wants to go for it I’d expect Kai to be in though because today he was outstanding for a lot of the game. 

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2 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

If he plays like 2nd half today, yes, I would consider starting him. Because not only was his play good at times, he actually looked more confident. Ok first half he didn’t impress and had a few scraps that maybe if he was on his toes he may have gotten contact on etc but nobody did play well either bar Mendy, Kai, the CBs and Mount (going forward anyway, left Billy with a lot of ground to cover as if he thought he was playing with Kante...).

I get Timo did the same v WHam then was pretty shit/frustrating in the first leg in Spain but I suppose it depends on what Tuchel’s thinking. I mean are we going to go for the jugular? Or try be a bit more cautious and play on the break? Personally felt the front three we seen against Madrid last leg worked, and he was part of it. Madrid wont play as bad as last time either so I couldn’t really say 100% start him or 100% don’t start him. If we want to sit off them at home (very dangerous as they know if they get a goal its difficult for us), he will play with same front 3 I think that he did in Spain to play on transitions. If he wants to go for it I’d expect Kai to be in though because today he was outstanding for a lot of the game. 

Am not so sure...

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hace 5 minutos, Jas dijo:

Am not so sure...

200.gif

I think Havertz is hard to leave out either way. But if we want to be more cautious then Timo and Pulisic maybe play for their speed.

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Werner is the first player to reach double digits for assists and goals in his debut season for Chelsea since Eden Hazard. 

Not bad. 

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After 86254835468765753453 minutes, he's finally our (joint) top scorer...

Should have had 1 more goal and 2 assists tonight!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jas said:

After 86254835468765753453 minutes, he's finally our (joint) top scorer...

Should have had 1 more goal and 2 assists tonight!

I disagree with that. Had a different player been on the pitch, perhaps those opportunities he missed wouldn't have been there to begin with.

The cool thing about Werner, and what some folks are missing about his game, is that he's a creator. no, he does not have the vision of a KDB to find that through ball, nor the finishing so many here crave for, but his pace and movement make him a nightmare to deal with. His presence alone will force City to employ a low(er) block again - just like they did against PSG because of Neymar and Mbappe.

Yes, City is still an excellent side even when operating with less of the football and on a lower block, but they are far less formidable.

Edited by robsblubot
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6 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

I disagree with that. Had a different player been on the pitch, perhaps those opportunities he missed wouldn't have been there to begin with.

The cool thing about Werner, and what some folks are missing about his game, is that he's a creator. no, he does not have the vision of a KDB to find that through ball, nor the finishing so many here crave for, but his pace and movement make him a nightmare to deal with. His presence alone will force City to employ a low(er) block again - just like they did against PSG because of Neymar and Mbappe.

Yes, City is still an excellent side even when operating with less of the football and on a lower block, but they are far less formidable.

I think the most important aspect is that without having a lot of vision or creativity he can do a simple thing very good. run with the ball into space faster than anyone else on the pitch. This opens a lot of tactical options for the coach. Off the ball he can get behind the defense any time which makes defenders nervous and stretches their defences. This directness and off the ball movement is why he starts over superior talents like Pulisic.

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46 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

I disagree with that. Had a different player been on the pitch, perhaps those opportunities he missed wouldn't have been there to begin with.

You mean tonight or overall? 

In any case, I agree with the notion. It's just of course, having gotten himself into positions to score goals, the misses have been frustrating to watch. He could easily have scored 25 goals by now!

46 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

The cool thing about Werner, and what some folks are missing about his game, is that he's a creator. no, he does not have the vision of a KDB to find that through ball, nor the finishing so many here crave for, but his pace and movement make him a nightmare to deal with. His presence alone will force City to employ a low(er) block again - just like they did against PSG because of Neymar and Mbappe.

Yes, City is still an excellent side even when operating with less of the football and on a lower block, but they are far less formidable.

The problem is, you have people only focusing on the numbers. Sure we and he want to score more goals but it should be obvious by now that he also brings more to the team than just goals. He would be great for us if he can just sort out the finishing problem. 

Also, notice how quiet this thread gets when he does well but when he misses a chance, it's all hell breaks loose. lol Although, he's not the first to have this sort of reaction here and won't be the last.

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6 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

I think the most important aspect is that without having a lot of vision or creativity he can do a simple thing very good. run with the ball into space faster than anyone else on the pitch. This opens a lot of tactical options for the coach. Off the ball he can get behind the defense any time which makes defenders nervous and stretches their defences. This directness and off the ball movement is why he starts over superior talents like Pulisic.

So, he's like the more efficient version of Willian? lol

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Jas said:

So, he's like the more efficient version of Willian? lol

good one, but are you suggesting Willian was ever! pacy? 😁

Edited by robsblubot
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26 minutes ago, Jas said:

So, he's like the more efficient version of Willian? lol

They are quite different aren’t they. William liked the ball at his feet and his strength was carrying it through midfield with mazy runs. Werner uses his straight line speed to carry it from midfield to attack and play the final ball. 
willian is a tragic case tho. He has the speed and technical  talent of prime hazard but not the intelligence. Werner might have the intelligence and speed but his feet are a bit too clumsy and his head is not always in the right place. Luckily it was today. 

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1 minute ago, Magic Lamps said:

They are quite different aren’t they. William liked the ball at his feet and his strength was carrying it through midfield with mazy runs. Werner uses his straight line speed to carry it from midfield to attack and play the final ball. 
willian is a tragic case tho. He has the speed and technical  talent of prime hazard but not the intelligence. Werner might have the intelligence and speed but his feet are a bit too clumsy and his head is not always in the right place. Luckily it was today. 

I mean, they aren’t exactly the same type of players but Willian has all that ability on the ball but doesn’t score enough or create enough chances from open play to get assists while Werner has his flaws with the ball but is somehow racking up decent numbers, with the assists at least.

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