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11. Timo Werner


Jase
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He isn't going anywhere as there's hardly anyone willing to but, except maybe traditional trolls Bayern, with -50% pricetag.

I feel someone in the club was pressured to but Werner and Havertz as they were hottest prospects out there and missing out on them would be like missing on Mbappe, just like Konate+Upamecano duo was considered a while ago. But suddenly securing prospects turned into integrating them into first team as top-players and we are where we are.

I'm hoping the fortune will turn around for them soon, but no signs of it now. 

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Really taking the piss now 

Werner has never been the most clinical of players. Last season in the Bundesliga he recorded 20 big chances missed, only second to Lewandowski at 24. That said, it comes with the territory. He's

A bit of class by RB Leipzig by posting the 'one step beyond' and now saying "Look after him for us, we will be rooting for Frank's young guns next season" Classy as fuck

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At the end of the day, Tuchel has to watch because if he continues to count on him and he keeps missing or scoring once every 15 games, ultimately it will be the managers head on the block if it leads to a down spiral in results/games not being won.

Not at that point yet but more big chances missed that would have swung this tie from just over 50% with the away goal to 75-80% in our favour IMO. 

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On 17/04/2021 at 16:28, Jason said:

Said this before, the more things progress, the more it looks like Werner will be like Pedro for us. Someone who is not the main scorer but the secondary scorer, someone who would get 10-15 goals per season. 

Off the top of my head, I don't think Werner's misses have come in games that we lost? Think they have come in games that we won?

But of course, having someone decisive in the final third might have turned some of those losses to wins. 

It's not that simple (responding to OneMoSalah's point actually): Werner's movement opens up spaces and creates opportunities for him and his teammates. I'm going to say something a bit controversial here, but I'd not replace Werner with Aubameyang, for example. Aubameyang can finish, but he just takes too much from the team - I really dislike him as a footballer.

Werner needs to improve his finish, but he is still young and even a slight improvement will make him an even more dangerous attacker, again because of his pace and movement.

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Before this game Werner had 1 goal and one assist in the last 3 games. Did not even started against Brighton in midweek. So his selection was definitely understandable. And this is the only two goals we scored in the last 3 games so...

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I often read that he's a bust and people are bashing the club for splurging on him, thinking we are doing Real Madrid kind of business and wanted him to be a star, but let's not forget, that at the time he was pretty much the only sub-30YO striker on the market with top-class potential, and striker is what we desperately need, as Tammy and Oli didn't really cut it at time, not to mention Gonzalo, so it's understandable that board pulled the trigger. 

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Football is funny sometimes.
Everybody knows it's a team sport, but after a strong team performance, away from home, and against the strongest opposition, folks will remember Werner's miss (really good save by Courtois too).

They will not think the zero-sum game it actually is: when you replace Werner with someone else, you lose what Werner does (regardless of your personal preferences).

Regarding the comparison with Pedro, I think Werner is quite different and has the potential to become a much better player than Pedro was.

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3 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Football is funny sometimes.
Everybody knows it's a team sport, but after a strong team performance, away from home, and against the strongest opposition, folks will remember Werner's miss (really good save by Courtois too).

They will not think the zero-sum game it actually is: when you replace Werner with someone else, you lose what Werner does (regardless of your personal preferences).

Regarding the comparison with Pedro, I think Werner is quite different and has the potential to become a much better player than Pedro was.

Not defending Werner's misses because some of them have been bad but it's gotten to the point where if he misses a chance, he will just get lampooned on and nobody bothers to consider the context of the chance. Maybe I am a Werner apologist and/or I have just gone crazy (it's been a shit day personally) but thought he was also a bit unlucky with the chance today. Did nothing wrong with the shot, apart from the picking the target of the net but Courtois made a good save with his foot.

And amid all the furore of that miss, I didn't even realize that that incident was in the same move/sequence that led to Pulisic's goal. Had Werner scored his chance, that Pulisic goal might not have happened at all.

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13 minutes ago, Jason said:

Not defending Werner's misses because some of them have been bad but it's gotten to the point where if he misses a chance, he will just get lampooned on and nobody bothers to consider the context of the chance. Maybe I am a Werner apologist and/or I have just gone crazy (it's been a shit day personally) but thought he was also a bit unlucky with the chance today. Did nothing wrong with the shot, apart from the picking the target of the net but Courtois made a good save with his foot.

And amid all the furore of that miss, I didn't even realize that that incident was in the same move/sequence that led to Pulisic's goal. Had Werner scored his chance, that Pulisic goal might not have happened at all.

Yes, that is the most important thing. Tammy Abraham scores that, Olivier Giroud scores that. After 10 years this is same story like with Torres. People here were happy with him when he scored like 5 goals in 30 games. Because he is a good boy and looks good in Chelsea shirt. The fact is that sticking to players like Torres and Werner means that you have no chance in league where you need someone to score 15-25 goals to fight for the title (maybe apart from City but they have Pep and players like Mahrez, Silva, Jesus, De Bruyne, Sterling, Foden). There is a reason why Chelsea won PL with Drogba and Costa. Not with the likes of Torres, Morata and now probably Werner. Faster he goes, better for him and for the club.

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2 minutes ago, Topico said:

Yes, that is the most important thing. Tammy Abraham scores that, Olivier Giroud scores that. After 10 years this is same story like with Torres. People here were happy with him when he scored like 5 goals in 30 games. Because he is a good boy and looks good in Chelsea shirt. The fact is that sticking to players like Torres and Werner means that you have no chance in league where you need someone to score 15-25 goals to fight for the title (maybe apart from City but they have Pep and players like Mahrez, Silva, Jesus, De Bruyne, Sterling, Foden). There is a reason why Chelsea won PL with Drogba and Costa. Not with the likes of Torres, Morata and now probably Werner. Faster he goes, better for him and for the club.

As some above have been saying, think Werner has qualities to be useful in the team. Just don't think he can be relied on for consistent goals. His goal return would be less of an issue if we have a proper #9 being the main goalscorer. 

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28 minutes ago, Jason said:

Not defending Werner's misses because some of them have been bad but it's gotten to the point where if he misses a chance, he will just get lampooned on and nobody bothers to consider the context of the chance. Maybe I am a Werner apologist and/or I have just gone crazy (it's been a shit day personally) but thought he was also a bit unlucky with the chance today. Did nothing wrong with the shot, apart from the picking the target of the net but Courtois made a good save with his foot.

And amid all the furore of that miss, I didn't even realize that that incident was in the same move/sequence that led to Pulisic's goal. Had Werner scored his chance, that Pulisic goal might not have happened at all.

When Werner went off we actually got worse attacking wise, the problem we have under Tuchel is there is not enough support in the box when we create chances. We are too conservative. 

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1 hour ago, Laylabelle said:

Maybe he'll do a Torres next week. Just so frustrating..and must be so crap for him as well just to miss the moments he really shouldn't miss!

If he does a Torres he wouldn't get these chances in the first place!

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14 minutes ago, Vybz Kartel said:

When Werner went off we actually got worse attacking wise, the problem we have under Tuchel is there is not enough support in the box when we create chances. We are too conservative. 

Our whole second half was bad and Werner was also invisible there

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4 hours ago, Jason said:

Not defending Werner's misses because some of them have been bad but it's gotten to the point where if he misses a chance, he will just get lampooned on and nobody bothers to consider the context of the chance. Maybe I am a Werner apologist and/or I have just gone crazy (it's been a shit day personally) but thought he was also a bit unlucky with the chance today. Did nothing wrong with the shot, apart from the picking the target of the net but Courtois made a good save with his foot.

And amid all the furore of that miss, I didn't even realize that that incident was in the same move/sequence that led to Pulisic's goal. Had Werner scored his chance, that Pulisic goal might not have happened at all.

I'm not going to lie @Jason, but you sound like you support Werner FC instead of Chelsea FC. The fact that you're still making excuses for this guy after he's missed a chance that might result in us going out of the Champions League is mindboggling.

He literally missed a clear cut chance that an 11 year old would score. Not only that but he had other chances to score.

What happens if Real Madrid kick us out? Will you still back him over other players?

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3 hours ago, Tomo said:

If he does a Torres he wouldn't get these chances in the first place!

Why do make it seem like it's not Tuchels system and style of play that creates the chances for Timo? His "amazing" movement is a myth, dare I say his runs today were abysmal.

Whenever we play without Werner we still create opportunities, and we score more often than not. Blindly supporting Werner doesn't make you a better fan but deluded. He's been fucking shite, and is becoming a liability in our hunt for the CL. Do you know how close we are to winning this thing? I back our chances against PSG/City and to think that this individual can cost us this trophy....is sickening.

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47 minutes ago, Azul said:

Why do make it seem like it's not Tuchels system and style of play that creates the chances for Timo? His "amazing" movement is a myth, dare I say his runs today were abysmal.

Whenever we play without Werner we still create opportunities, and we score more often than not. Blindly supporting Werner doesn't make you a better fan but deluded. He's been fucking shite, and is becoming a liability in our hunt for the CL. Do you know how close we are to winning this thing? I back our chances against PSG/City and to think that this individual can cost us this trophy....is sickening.

He was missing chances galore under Lampard aswell, I'm not saying it's acceptable but Torres being compared favourably to anyone of our strikers is a massive trigger point for me, I'd defend even Michy against such. 

Werner's flicked between average and terrible most of the season but that's just it average and terrible, even that's above the anonymous shit shows we got from Torres.

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2 hours ago, Azul said:

I'm not going to lie @Jason, but you sound like you support Werner FC instead of Chelsea FC. The fact that you're still making excuses for this guy after he's missed a chance that might result in us going out of the Champions League is mindboggling.

He literally missed a clear cut chance that an 11 year old would score. Not only that but he had other chances to score.

What happens if Real Madrid kick us out? Will you still back him over other players?

On one hand, it was a bad miss and he should have scored and on the other hand, it was a good save. Players miss chances all the time, even in big games. The only reason the furore with Werner exists is because of the number of chances he has missed this season. 

What other chances to score? His miss and Pulisic's goal were the only real chances we had. I wasn't keeping track of it but saw some point out that had Werner scored his chance, the Pulisic goal might not have happened due to the same sequence of play etc. Will need to go see it again. But that aside, we ruined a lot of promising situations in the first half with poor final passes and in the second half, we created nothing. Can't remember us testing Courtois at all.

There's still another 90 minutes to play. If we get knocked out by Real Madrid, it could be for various reasons. All the talk about Werner's miss and no one has even mentioned about the poor defending that led to Benzema's goal, for example. We should be doing better in attack to render such moments insignificant. 

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3 hours ago, Azul said:

Whenever we play without Werner we still create opportunities, and we score more often than not.

This isn't to say that Werner contributed to every goal whenever he's played but here's our record this season whenever he doesn't start/play:

Under Lampard
W 6-0 Barnsley
W 4-0 Sevilla
D 1-1 Krasnodar
D 1-1 Villa
W 1-0 Fulham
L 0-2 Leicester

Under Tuchel
D 0-0 Wolves
W 1-0 Barnsley
D 0-0 Man United
D 0-0 Leeds
W 2-0 Sheffield United
W 4-1 Crystal Palace
L 0-1 Porto
D 0-0 Brighton

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