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11. Timo Werner


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He had 9 touches in the first half. If that was Tammy playing in the first half with that kind of performance, he would have been subbed off. Tuchel loves Werner so much ūüėā

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Really taking the piss now 

Werner has never been the most clinical of players. Last season in the Bundesliga he recorded 20 big chances missed, only second to Lewandowski at 24. That said, it comes with the territory. He's

he has a real mentality off the field but also different level on it. Hard doesn't faze him, but he's a killer, he is going to get tons of goals this season.

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5 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

He had 9 touches in the first half. If that was Tammy playing in the first half with that kind of performance, he would have been subbed off. Tuchel loves Werner so much ūüėā

Well every big game win under Tuchel so far Werner has started. So his inclusion is clearly working in these type of games.

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3 minutes ago, Dan Lee said:

We should not use him for now. We do have other players that can perform better. Why stick with him?

Not defending Werner here but who else has performed so outstandingly that they deserve to be in the XI week in week out?

If we want to talk about what each player can do, then we know what Werner can do at his best, we know what Pulisic can do at his best, we know what Ziyech can do at his best and the list goes on. But who exactly right now is even performing to their best of abilities if we're being honest? Some will maybe have 1-2 good games, some will show flashes here and there. That's it. No one is showing the "I SHOULD BE IN THE XI EVERY WEEK" performance.

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9 minutes ago, Jason said:

Not defending Werner here but who else has performed so outstandingly that they deserve to be in the XI week in week out?

If we want to talk about what each player can do, then we know what Werner can do at his best, we know what Pulisic can do at his best, we know what Ziyech can do at his best and the list goes on. But who exactly right now is even performing to their best of abilities if we're being honest? Some will maybe have 1-2 good games, some will show flashes here and there. That's it. No one is showing the "I SHOULD BE IN THE XI EVERY WEEK" performance.

Maybe I've officially gone mad but I really don't think he's playing that badly. Inexcusable goal drought for sure but he's still been contributing and making key assists (case in point last round Vs Leti).

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1 minute ago, Tomo said:

Maybe I've officially gone mad but I really don't think he's playing that badly. Inexcusable goal drought for sure but he's still been contributing and making key assists (case in point last round Vs Leti).

Have you not been reading my posts on Werner lately? ūü§£

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28 minutes ago, Jason said:

Not defending Werner here but who else has performed so outstandingly that they deserve to be in the XI week in week out?

If we want to talk about what each player can do, then we know what Werner can do at his best, we know what Pulisic can do at his best, we know what Ziyech can do at his best and the list goes on. But who exactly right now is even performing to their best of abilities if we're being honest? Some will maybe have 1-2 good games, some will show flashes here and there. That's it. No one is showing the "I SHOULD BE IN THE XI EVERY WEEK" performance.

This is sadūüėāūüėāūüėāūüėā¬†

Your stubbornness is Mourinho levels.

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38 minutes ago, Azul said:

This is sadūüėāūüėāūüėāūüėā¬†

Your stubbornness is Mourinho levels.

tenor.gif

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Honestly, we should not start Werner until the end of the season. He's had enough chances. Use him as a sub when teams are tired and he can burn them up with pace. 

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5 minutes ago, DDA said:

Honestly, we should not start Werner until the end of the season. He's had enough chances. Use him as a sub when teams are tired and he can burn them up with pace. 

I say we should give CHO a run of games on the left. Pulisic is too injury prone to be relied on. CHO against Everton was very very good, and I don't understand why he did not get a chance on the left wing ever since that game. 

The argument people use that "no one is putting in good performances to bench Werner" is so low-iq. What has Werner done to be considered a definite starter? Besides it's not like everyone else had the same amount of games Werner had to prove themselves. 

Werner should be benched not only for the benefit of his confidence but also for the benefit of the team. Starting him when he's this bad right now will not change anything, but if he sits on the bench he might get the rest mentally that he needed.

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9 minutes ago, Azul said:

The argument people use that "no one is putting in good performances to bench Werner" is so low-iq. What has Werner done to be considered a definite starter?

Okay...the point I was trying to make is not "no one is putting in good performances to bench Werner". It is that no one is actually doing that consistently, even Werner himself. Everyone of our attackers has done good here and there or shown flashes here and there. Because of that, it's come down to Tuchel choosing what he sees best for the game, opposition etc instead of "right, he must play because he has been consistent". That's the point I was trying make. Whether Tuchel has made the right selection or not is another debate. 

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

Okay...the point I was trying to make is not "no one is putting in good performances to bench Werner". It is that no one is actually doing that consistently, even Werner himself. Everyone of our attackers has done good here and there or shown flashes here and there. Because of that, it's come down to Tuchel choosing what he sees best for the game, opposition etc instead of "right, he must play because he has been consistent". That's the point I was trying make. Whether Tuchel has made the right selection or not is another debate. 

Consistency is not possible when you don't have a run games. It's clear that Werner has been given a run of games, and he has not been good enough. The rest have not been good enough, but they've not been as bad with the limited amount of time they've had. 

It's very easy to understand, but you're being stubborn here. Werner has zero confidence right now, he should be benched and someone else like CHO should be given a run in the left forward position. If CHO is not up for it then Pulisic, and if both of them are shit after we've given them the same opportunities that Werner had then fair enough. 

Do you still believe Werner should start by the way? Even after you've seen him this month? Come on @Jason man, stop being stubborn for the sake of it. You know better.

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15 minutes ago, Azul said:

Consistency is not possible when you don't have a run games. It's clear that Werner has been given a run of games, and he has not been good enough. The rest have not been good enough, but they've not been as bad with the limited amount of time they've had. 

It's very easy to understand, but you're being stubborn here. Werner has zero confidence right now, he should be benched and someone else like CHO should be given a run in the left forward position. If CHO is not up for it then Pulisic, and if both of them are shit after we've given them the same opportunities that Werner had then fair enough. 

Do you still believe Werner should start by the way? Even after you've seen him this month? Come on @Jason man, stop being stubborn for the sake of it. You know better.

You're casting a wide net there when you say "this month". lol

Do I think Werner should start every game? Definitely no and maybe benching him for 2-3 consecutive games or longer will do him some good.

What I'd say though - and I've said this before - is that Werner hasn't always occupied that left forward position considering he has played upfront a few times and even once on the right. So, nothing has really stopped Tuchel from playing Pulisic or CHO, especially with everyone available now. On top of that, I think we'll be playing a game every 3-4 days now until the end of the season. So, Tuchel will definitely rotate more and not even sure if anyone will get a consistent run. At most, I think one will play 3 consecutive games before being rested.

TBH, we have been doing this a lot and I can argue till the cows come home with you or anyone else¬†but at the end of the day, Tuchel is the one picking the team. Have already argued to the point where I'm just tired and can't be bothered about anything anymore.¬†ūüėĖ

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34 minutes ago, Jason said:

You're casting a wide net there when you say "this month". lol

Do I think Werner should start every game? Definitely no and maybe benching him for 2-3 consecutive games or longer will do him some good.

What I'd say though - and I've said this before - is that Werner hasn't always occupied that left forward position considering he has played upfront a few times and even once on the right. So, nothing has really stopped Tuchel from playing Pulisic or CHO, especially with everyone available now. On top of that, I think we'll be playing a game every 3-4 days now until the end of the season. So, Tuchel will definitely rotate more and not even sure if anyone will get a consistent run. At most, I think one will play 3 consecutive games before being rested.

TBH, we have been doing this a lot and I can argue till the cows come home with you or anyone else¬†but at the end of the day, Tuchel is the one picking the team. Have already argued to the point where I'm just tired and can't be bothered about anything anymore.¬†ūüėĖ

He's become even worse in the last 4-5 weeks to be honest. His misses against Everton, and against Macedonia is just an example of that.

Don't hide behind what Tuchel does, he obviously has his reasons. What we can do is see the game by using our own eyes and making a judgement on whether Werner should start or not. If Tuchel starts him next game, then I think he's wrong to be honest. I'm really confused why he's dropped CHO all of a sudden, and not even brought him off the bench. It's a mystery, because I really do think the boy has potential and it'd be a shame if we don't give him a run of games in his preffered position where he usually does the job.

Let's just hope Werner get's a rest, because even I am starting to feel sorry for him. The guy needs a break and some time to himself.

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2 minutes ago, Azul said:

He's become even worse in the last 4-5 weeks to be honest. His misses against Everton, and against Macedonia is just an example of that.

Don't hide behind what Tuchel does, he obviously has his reasons. What we can do is see the game by using our own eyes and making a judgement on whether Werner should start or not. If Tuchel starts him next game, then I think he's wrong to be honest. I'm really confused why he's dropped CHO all of a sudden, and not even brought him off the bench. It's a mystery, because I really do think the boy has potential and it'd be a shame if we don't give him a run of games in his preffered position where he usually does the job.

Let's just hope Werner get's a rest, because even I am starting to feel sorry for him. The guy needs a break and some time to himself.

Don't think any more needs to be said about his misses but he still had good games against Liverpool and Atletico otherwise. Had a good assist against the latter and would have had a goal against the former if it wasn't for a stupid offside call. 

Not hiding behind Tuchel's decision. Just saying. We can argue about this and that 24/7 but we don't know exactly why he picks who he picks every time. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

10 goals

9 assists (12 if you want to include penalties)

For someone who hasn't been great this season - in his debut season no less - that is a decent G/A contribution. That's also at least 3 more than anyone else in the team.

If he can sort himself out and regain his mojo, one would expect those numbers to be better next season.

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1 hour ago, Jason said:

10 goals

9 assists (12 if you want to include penalties)

For someone who hasn't been great this season - in his debut season no less - that is a decent G/A contribution. That's also at least 3 more than anyone else in the team.

If he can sort himself out and regain his mojo, one would expect those numbers to be better next season.

The problems been only 6 of those goal involvements in the second half of the season have come in about 1250 minutes. In which only 2 were actual goals. 

Yes 19 goal involvements for the season is decent but it only tells half the story and is extremely misleading from what a lot of the games this season actually reflect.

One positive though cannot get any worse next season, surely? And recruiting another CF be it an Aguero or Haaland or whoever, will hopefully add more goals to the team. And even then if its similar next season if we get another CF/regular source of goals it wont be too bad.

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37 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

The problems been only 6 of those goal involvements in the second half of the season have come in about 1250 minutes. In which only 2 were actual goals. 

Yes 19 goal involvements for the season is decent but it only tells half the story and is extremely misleading from what a lot of the games this season actually reflect.

True but the problem is, no one else in the team has been consistent throughout the season either. 

Mount, who has played comparable minutes to Werner, has been more consistent in terms of performances but his numbers are lower than Werner. Okay, you could argue that one is a striker and the other isn't but the striker is producing more assists (and all from open play) than the attacking midfielder.

We can argue all day about the other problems with Werner (don't want to do it again!) but as I said earlier, given it's his first season here and the problems he's had/having, that return is not bad. If he's producing such numbers in a bad season, then imagine what he can produce if he can find himself again and have a good season.

37 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

One positive though cannot get any worse next season, surely? And recruiting another CF be it an Aguero or Haaland or whoever, will hopefully add more goals to the team. And even then if its similar next season if we get another CF/regular source of goals it wont be too bad.

So, you're basically saying that people are just piling on him because they see as the main source for goals in the team? 

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43 minutes ago, Jason said:

True but the problem is, no one else in the team has been consistent throughout the season either. 

Mount, who has played comparable minutes to Werner, has been more consistent in terms of performances but his numbers are lower than Werner. Okay, you could argue that one is a striker and the other isn't but the striker is producing more assists (and all from open play) than the attacking midfielder.

We can argue all day about the other problems with Werner (don't want to do it again!) but as I said earlier, given it's his first season here and the problems he's had/having, that return is not bad. If he's producing such numbers in a bad season, then imagine what he can produce if he can find himself again and have a good season.

So, you're basically saying that people are just piling on him because they see as the main source for goals in the team? 

Not necessarily, he is definitely worth of a lot of criticisms he has had as he is a striker and his role is to score goals ultimately although they obviously have to do more than that these days. Ok he maybe isn’t a pure number 9 so to speak but if we had one who was scoring goals regularly then maybe we could accept him not being as prolific.

He was bought with the expectations of being a regular goalscorer though and that will always go against him whoever makes a judgement on his performances in his time here. Obviously we still want more from him as he has probably been the guy most have thought would be our most consistent and regular sources of goals when we signed him. He probably anticipated being that himself as did Frank and TT when he came in also especially based off what he achieved at Leipzig. 

Its not unfair for anyone to turn around and say his lack of goals and particularly the big chances missed have affected our season. They would have gotten us extra points at some stage which would maybe have us a bit better than we are at present and its been a reoccurring theme with other CFs also.  It was the exact same issue last season with many players (Abraham I think got this a bit also like Morata before him) also as we missed a lot of the big chances we created and that nearly came back to bite us. 

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