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11. Timo Werner


Jas
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17 minutes ago, Jason said:

Were we not mainly arguing about his performances? His performances of late aren't exactly the issue. It's the finishing.

He has had shocking misses but they weren't happening every game. But the longer he goes on without getting back into some kind of goalscoring form, the more he misses chances like today, then even I have to go "WTF TIMO!?" because there's no way one can defend that. 

When a player is tasked to get in behind and score goals then his finishing is the most important thing.

I don't want to get in a pages long discussion again. However in our previous discussions I said that Werner misses a lot of chances and I don't think he's performing at a level where he should start week in week out. You countered my arguments, by saying that he offers more then just goals and should still start over CHO/Pulisic. 

The reason why I'm baffled now is because your whole point had nothing to do with his goal contributions but his performances. The fact that you now turnaround and say he's not good enough after the chance he missed today doesn't make sense to me. He still performs good enough to start for Chelsea according to you? Correct?

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Really taking the piss now 

Werner has never been the most clinical of players. Last season in the Bundesliga he recorded 20 big chances missed, only second to Lewandowski at 24. That said, it comes with the territory. He's

A bit of class by RB Leipzig by posting the 'one step beyond' and now saying "Look after him for us, we will be rooting for Frank's young guns next season" Classy as fuck

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12 minutes ago, Azul said:

Look at the stats @Jason posted, his shots to goal ratio got significantly worse as of right now. 

I calculated the shots to goal ratio:

Last season he had 117 shots and scored 28, which means his shots to goal ratio is 28/117 = 24%

This season Werner's has had 62 shots on goal and scored 5 goals, which means his shots to goal ratio is 5/62= 8%

As you can see his ratio got worse by 3 times! This clearly shows that his finishing got worse. I agree that he's had less shots on goal but we can't ignore that he was a much better finisher last season as I've shown you with facts just now.

Look I disagree with you that the biggest problem is the style of play in the EPL. I think that the biggest problem is his mental toughness, which is the most important attribute in football. He's not dealing with the pressure that comes with being a Chelsea player just like many other players and he's facing the consequences on the pitch. 

I'm not denying his finishing got worse, I'm saying Werner has always been a chance bottler! He's missed 16 big chances in the league this season. Last season at Liepzeg, he missed 21. So seeing him continue to miss chance after chance, in hindsight, shouldn't be all that surprising. I'd like to think being utilised incorrectly by Lampard for half the season took a toll on his ability to find the net to the standard we saw last season.

I really do not want to get into the argument of 'mental toughness' again whilst throwing out the Morata and Torres comparisons. Already displayed my stance on how I find it ridiculous considering those two had us playing with 10 men. 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Azul said:

When a player is tasked to get in behind and score goals then his finishing is the most important thing.

I don't want to get in a pages long discussion again. However in our previous discussions I said that Werner misses a lot of chances and I don't think he's performing at a level where he should start week in week out. You countered my arguments, by saying that he offers more then just goals and should still start over CHO/Pulisic. 

The reason why I'm baffled now is because your whole point had nothing to do with his goal contributions but his performances. The fact that you now turnaround and say he's not good enough after the chance he missed today doesn't make sense to me. He still performs good enough to start for Chelsea according to you? Correct?

Whatever I've been saying here over the last hour or so is about Werner's finishing, not his performances. His performances have been alright, he did what Tuchel asked of him. It's his finishing aka the misses that it's just...I don't know what to say. It's one thing to, say, not scoring with the keeper making a save on the shot or something but it's another to just miss an open goal like today. 

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5 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Last season at Liepzeg, he missed 21.

The ironic thing about that is, only Lewandowski missed more than Werner last season (25) and yet, the numbers weren't too different but would anyone say Lewandowski is a big chance bottler? 

Lewandowski has also missed 20 big chances this season but still gets enough chances to rack up 35 league goals.

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5 minutes ago, Jason said:

Whatever I've been saying here over the last hour or so is about Werner's finishing, not his performances. His performances have been alright, he did what Tuchel asked of him. It's his finishing aka the misses that it's just...I don't know what to say. It's one thing to, say, not scoring with the keeper making a save on the shot or something but it's another to just miss an open goal like today. 

Yes and your reasoning for why he should start in our past discussions had nothing to do with his finishing. So by your logic he should still start right?

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Just now, Azul said:

Yes and your reasoning for why he should start in our past discussions had nothing to do with his finishing. So by your logic he should still start right?

In terms of performances, yes.

Different story in terms of finishing.

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7 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

I'm not denying his finishing got worse, I'm saying Werner has always been a chance bottler! He's missed 16 big chances in the league this season. Last season at Liepzeg, he missed 21. So seeing him continue to miss chance after chance, in hindsight, shouldn't be all that surprising. I'd like to think being utilised incorrectly by Lampard for half the season took a toll on his ability to find the net to the standard we saw last season.

I really do not want to get into the argument of 'mental toughness' again whilst throwing out the Morata and Torres comparisons. Already displayed my stance on how I find it ridiculous considering those two had us playing with 10 men. 

 

 

 

His shots to goal ratio last season is not ideal, but it went from 24% to 8%!!! Do you not realise how bad that is? He might've been a chance bottler, but this is a whole new level. 8% shots to goal ratio should be surprising.

There is no other explanation as to why Wernere finishing got worse, but the fact that being a Chelsea player puts a lot of pressure on him. Mental toughness is not just an 'argument', but according to the best football players that have graced this earth it's the most important thing a player can have. 

I pray he overcomes this phase in his career and picks up form next season. Things have not been looking good for him though.

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5 minutes ago, Jason said:

In terms of performances, yes.

Different story in terms of finishing.

I rest my case.

Don't backtrack, when you've clearly stated that he should start "based on his performances" in the past. 

By your logic the amount of chances he misses won't change your stance on his position in the starting XI.

Edited by Azul
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4 minutes ago, Azul said:

I rest my case.

Don't backtrack, when you've clearly stated that he should start "based on his performances" in the past. 

By your logic the amount of chances he misses won't change your stance on his position in the starting XI.

When did I backtrack? I have always mentioned about his performances in past discussions.

I had hoped that he would eventually find his goalscoring touch again but when you see misses like tonight's, it's hard to maintain that hope. Whatever I've been saying tonight has been about his misses. Totally two different aspects of him.

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21 minutes ago, Jason said:

When did I backtrack? I have always mentioned about his performances in past discussions.

I had hoped that he would eventually find his goalscoring touch again but when you see misses like tonight's, it's hard to maintain that hope. Whatever I've been saying tonight has been about his misses. Totally two different aspects of him.

Alright let me explain it more clearly. My stance has been that he should be benched based on the amount of misses he had. 

However you responded by telling me that he should start based on his performances even though he misses a lot of chances. Furthermore, you've added to that by saying he offers more attacking wise then just goals. 

The reason why you're backtracking is because now his misses are a factor in your judgement of why he should start or not. When in the past that was not the case. 

By your logic in past discussions he should not be benched and should start even after the miss today, period.

Edited by Azul
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5 minutes ago, Azul said:

The reason why you're backtracking is because now his misses are a factor in your judgement of why he should start or not.

Where have I explicitly said this? All I've been talking about in the last hour is his finishing, not even whether he should start or not. Am just baffled by open goal misses like today, even taking into account his misses in the past. 

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Just now, Jason said:

Where have I explicitly said this? All I've been talking about in the last hour is his finishing, not even whether he should start or not. Am just baffled by open goal misses like today, even taking into account his misses in the past. 

Your response to my question on whether he should start or not was:

"In terms of performances, yes.

Different story in terms of finishing."

Why did you mention finishing when it's not a factor in your judgement on whether he should start? You should've just responded by saying yes and nothing more.

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2 minutes ago, Azul said:

Your response to my question on whether he should start or not was:

"In terms of performances, yes.

Different story in terms of finishing."

Why did you mention finishing when it's not a factor in your judgement on whether he should start? You should've just responded by saying yes and nothing more.

I only mentioned the finishing part in that post because you kept on talking about it and I thought you wanted to go on a whole 10-page long debate again! lol 

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Apart from Costa for 2 title winning seasons we just cant catch a break with strikers since Drogba. It is unreal how everyone flops here.

There is definitely something more going on here.

Because why was Torres so much better in Atletico and Liverpool? 

Why is/was Morata better in Juve, Atletico, Real compering to Chelsea?

And now Werner was much better in Leipzig? 

Probably many reasons like mentality and PL is not for everyone clearly. Certain type of strikers always worked best here. Tall and strong. Drogba, Costa, Giroud. We better get Haaland. At this point Roman should just pay what they want even if that means we wont sign anyone else.

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13 minutes ago, Jason said:

I only mentioned the finishing part in that post because you kept on talking about it and I thought you wanted to go on a whole 10-page long debate again! lol 

You threw in that finishing part to backtrack in case Werner misses another howler when he starts against West Brom😂😂

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I'm not letting that slide, according to you he should start and his finishing doesn't factor in your judgement. Let's keep it at that. lol

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1 minute ago, Azul said:

You threw in that finishing part to backtrack in case Werner misses another howler when he starts against West Brom😂😂

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I'm not letting that slide, according to you he should start and his finishing doesn't factor in your judgement. Let's keep it at that. lol

You're the one who assumed it that way. Don't put words in my mouth.

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5 minutes ago, Jason said:

You're the one who assumed it that way. Don't put words in my mouth.

I'm joking buddy.

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That miss was hurrendous.

It's hard to see a way back for this lad at this point. 

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If Dortmund will take him in any deal for Haaland, just do it. Beyond caring now he seems to miss more often than do anything good for club or country. 

Really hope Tuchel doesn’t rely on him next season and gets another striker in at least if he keeps going this way and we don’t, he will cost us big time. And cost the manager.

Not quite Torres though so always a plus but not looking exactly promising that Werner will be a huge hit here. 

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