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11. Timo Werner


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6 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Wouldnt see him starting there.

Not as technically proficient as the likes of Silva, Mahrez, Sterling, De Bruyne, Foden, Gundogan, Torres etc although not to say Pep couldnt of improved him. 

Would of imagined the City links are the same as the old links we had to every player under the sun because we spent a lot of money, we had big managers and clubs/agents would try drive up the price.

Don't see how Werner wouldn't start at City if Guardiola wanted him. You don't buy a high profile German international only to start him on the bench.

And have you forgotten Werner had a release clause in his Leipzig contract? Why the hell would the links even be about trying to drive up the price? 

8 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Regardless of which position/system Werner played in for Leipzig, we knew he would have to adapt to fit into the team in one way or another be it off the left or upfront and we all thought he would have the quality to do it. 

I do think the coaching is an issue for the team but theres also got to be a huge emphasis on Timo himself. Same with Kai. There performances really haven’t been good enough for a while.

Sure, can blame Werner for the individual things but playing him a winger? Let's not be stupid here. He played on the left side at Leipzig but it was a second striker role and not a winger. 

I don't get how you can blame Lampard for poor coaching of the team but at the same time, criticize Werner and Havertz when they are basically being set up to fail. Sure, you can criticize them for not doing the little things properly but whatever role they are playing now in the team is not best suited to them, is it? 

"We knew he would have to adapt to fit into the team"? Werner and Havertz were both wanted by Lampard and he got them. You would think that Lampard has a system in place to fit them both in, where they can shine and not the other way around. Werner and Havertz mentioned what Lampard spoke to them before joining us but are we seeing any of those plans working out now? As I said earlier, you need to start questioning Lampard then if he doesn't know how to use them.

15 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Talking of tactics and flexibility, I seem to remember you being among many complaining about Lampard not trying 433 earlier on in the season to suit Havertz, Kante, Mount, among others. When we played 4231? Now go 442? Or 352? Or whatever? Again, may work, may not but again theres 11 players the system has to suit not just Timo. 

I don't recall wanting us to play 4-3-3 but I was happy when Lampard seemingly found the sweet spot with the 4-3-3 when we shifted to it in Krasnodar. However, it's obvious that it hasn't quite worked out recently but Lampard has stubbornly persisted with it. 

Also, I'm not stupid enough to suggest we should change formation for one player but it's not like the back 3 system, for example, doesn't suit the players we have right now, does it? 

19 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Right now, I do think the best thing for Timo is going to be a run out the team in all honesty, if he keeps up with this runs of no goals, be it from the left or up top, its going to be additional pressure.

And questions would be still asked if he sits out for too long. He's not going to get out of this rut by sitting on the bench.

20 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

The whole method of creating chances by crossing be it from James, Azpiliceuta or Chilwell, doesn’t suit Timo. 

Isn't that on Lampard? :doh: He bought someone like Werner but have been making us play hoofball and spam high crosses into the box. 

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Werner has never been the most clinical of players. Last season in the Bundesliga he recorded 20 big chances missed, only second to Lewandowski at 24. That said, it comes with the territory. He's

Really taking the piss now 

he has a real mentality off the field but also different level on it. Hard doesn't faze him, but he's a killer, he is going to get tons of goals this season.

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1 hour ago, Jason said:

Don't see how Werner wouldn't start at City if Guardiola wanted him. You don't buy a high profile German international only to start him on the bench.

And have you forgotten Werner had a release clause in his Leipzig contract? Why the hell would the links even be about trying to drive up the price? 

Sure, can blame Werner for the individual things but playing him a winger? Let's not be stupid here. He played on the left side at Leipzig but it was a second striker role and not a winger. 

I don't get how you can blame Lampard for poor coaching of the team but at the same time, criticize Werner and Havertz when they are basically being set up to fail. Sure, you can criticize them for not doing the little things properly but whatever role they are playing now in the team is not best suited to them, is it? 

"We knew he would have to adapt to fit into the team"? Werner and Havertz were both wanted by Lampard and he got them. You would think that Lampard has a system in place to fit them both in, where they can shine and not the other way around. Werner and Havertz mentioned what Lampard spoke to them before joining us but are we seeing any of those plans working out now? As I said earlier, you need to start questioning Lampard then if he doesn't know how to use them.

I don't recall wanting us to play 4-3-3 but I was happy when Lampard seemingly found the sweet spot with the 4-3-3 when we shifted to it in Krasnodar. However, it's obvious that it hasn't quite worked out recently but Lampard has stubbornly persisted with it. 

Also, I'm not stupid enough to suggest we should change formation for one player but it's not like the back 3 system, for example, doesn't suit the players we have right now, does it? 

And questions would be still asked if he sits out for too long. He's not going to get out of this rut by sitting on the bench.

Isn't that on Lampard? :doh: He bought someone like Werner but have been making us play hoofball and spam high crosses into the box. 

True it was release clause but wages also undoubtedly which is why I mentioned agents. I personally still don’t see why City would of wanted him considering what they have in wide areas as he wouldnt he starting ahead of Aguero although he is missing due to injuries but still, Liverpool not getting him looked more of a mistake than say City not going for him until they signed Jota. 

Yes the positions different but the guy has to adapt and ultimately I expected more from him, considering he has played left wing for Germany numerous times. I mean obviously works both ways but again, if the balls not in and around the box or put in behind for him what does he do? Does he take the ball and drive at players like Pulisic does if he’s out wide? Does he try hold the ball or link the play like Giroud when hes uptop? He doesn't as those aren’t his strengths obviously but you’ve got to adapt still and he can do more. I do feel a bit sorry for him being played out left as its not his role but I am very surprised at what he’s putting in out there in terms of one quality and two effort. 

The whole team you could argue is set up to fail with Lampard tactics but also, not that its a saving grace for Frank but individual performances can be much much better. Its not as black as white as the tactics are shite so 11 players playing poorly week in week out is only down to him. He wanted them and has to find a solution to get them in and playing well with the rest of the team but they’ve also got to be up for it and impose themselves in games and put effort in at times. Not seen anything from Havertz since that hattrick against whoever we played in the FA cup if I am honest and that was about 4 months ago. 21 games and 4 goals for £80m. Also re Timo, him missing those sitters/clear chances isn't done to Lampard’s tactics is it? Some of its lucks some of its been poor finishing. 

The problem Lampard has regardless of if its Timo, Kai, whoever is that too many players are struggling which indicates a wider issue and why I think we need a change (and going by forum a lot of others think he needs to go too). But this is by no means me making any excuses for these players who have really dropped off and struggled either way. They need to take some responsibility for their individual form at times, Kai and Timo may be new may not have had pre seasons bla bla bla but for two players who cost nearly £130m you expect much much more in terms of quality. Regardless of it was Frank Lampard, Sean Dyche, Jose Mourinho’s or Tony Pulis in charge. Even if Frank went out the door and was replaced, as we seen with Guus Hiddink that season he replaced Jose after we won the league in 2014/15, its not always an instant fix. So its interesting. I dont know who will come in but I think someone who demands respect as a manager is needed ie an Allegri. I also think someone whos a bit more discipline driven would boot a rocket up these players arses because Frank isnt doing it or if he is, they dont seem to be getting the message.

Your right re Timos rutt but I would rather Giroud or Abraham who have been in amongst the goals in comparison to Timo in the last 12 matches, at least until we get results. Even more so because they offer more to the team as players right now. I am struggling to see why Timo should be included. If he was scoring goals it would be fine you could justify his inclusion for that but he’s not. I was glad to see he was in as CF today as I thought the players would be able to get him chances but they didnt and he didnt offer anything. 

The playing style is an issue yes but it’s obviously what FL is gonna keep persisting with so Giroud/Abraham more likely to score from crosses than Timo.

Hopefully if there is a change everyone will get a boost and we will see better from these players but these dreamers thinking we are gonna get Nagelsmann or someone like that, need to wake up. Standards have only gotten lower since somehow getting Conte to come in and take over a team who had spent most of the season floating about 10th or 11th in 2015/16. Allegri would be a real shrewd move, safe hands, plenty experience but will he want to come here? Questionable.

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4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

True it was release clause but wages also undoubtedly which is why I mentioned agents. I personally still don’t see why City would of wanted him considering what they have in wide areas as he wouldnt he starting ahead of Aguero although he is missing due to injuries but still, Liverpool not getting him looked more of a mistake than say City not going for him until they signed Jota. 

Not sure how much the wages really played a part based on how the transfer was reported - e.g. Cech, Lampard called to convince him, Cech went to Germany - and how Werner spoke about Lampard after joining us. The supposed interest from Guardiola was only reported after the transfer move happened and it was from the same person that broke the news in the first place.

Aguero is already 32 years old and as you alluded to, he is also injury prone. Plus, his contract expires at the end of this season, IIRC. Not surprising to see City looking for his successor, if you like, and it's not as if Jesus has done a convincing job in Aguero's absence.

4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Yes the positions different but the guy has to adapt and ultimately I expected more from him, considering he has played left wing for Germany numerous times. I mean obviously works both ways but again, if the balls not in and around the box or put in behind for him what does he do? Does he take the ball and drive at players like Pulisic does if he’s out wide? Does he try hold the ball or link the play like Giroud when hes uptop? He doesn't as those aren’t his strengths obviously but you’ve got to adapt still and he can do more. I do feel a bit sorry for him being played out left as its not his role but I am very surprised at what he’s putting in out there in terms of one quality and two effort. 

Just because Werner played on the left wing for Germany, it doesn't mean his role is the same with whatever Lampard is asking him to do. It is clear as hell by now that Werner is NOT a winger. So, I do not know what is Lampard expecting and what are people expecting from Werner in that role. You can say "oh, he's got to adapt and can do more" but if someone is just not suited to a particular, especially after so many games, then he is just not suited to that role. God knows how many times I've mentioned this but Werner did his best work as a second striker at Leipzig but people now want him to be a winger? This is rather similar to Sarri trying to turn Kante into an attacking midfielder when he is never going to be one and his up-and-down performances in that role have proven that.

You are surprised by what he's putting out there in terms of effort? Were you saying this a month or more so ago? I don't think he is one to not put in the effort and for much, if not all, of this season, I haven't seen anyone complained about it despite him having to play an unfamiliar role. If you're gonna question Werner for the lack of the effort in some of the recent games, then you gotta question the others too because there are a lot of underwhelming individuals out there recently. Might well have something to do with Lampard overtraining the players during a free week and come matchday, they just look dead on their feet and aren't doing the basics right. Also, it's worth pointing out (again) that Werner has played the most minutes this season (1,833) and considering this is his first season in English football with the congested schedule etc, him suffering a burnt out of late isn't entirely out of the question either. 

4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

The whole team you could argue is set up to fail with Lampard tactics but also, not that its a saving grace for Frank but individual performances can be much much better. Its not as black as white as the tactics are shite so 11 players playing poorly week in week out is only down to him. He wanted them and has to find a solution to get them in and playing well with the rest of the team but they’ve also got to be up for it and impose themselves in games and put effort in at times. Not seen anything from Havertz since that hattrick against whoever we played in the FA cup if I am honest and that was about 4 months ago. 21 games and 4 goals for £80m. Also re Timo, him missing those sitters/clear chances isn't done to Lampard’s tactics is it? Some of its lucks some of its been poor finishing. 

The problem Lampard has regardless of if its Timo, Kai, whoever is that too many players are struggling which indicates a wider issue and why I think we need a change (and going by forum a lot of others think he needs to go too). But this is by no means me making any excuses for these players who have really dropped off and struggled either way. They need to take some responsibility for their individual form at times, Kai and Timo may be new may not have had pre seasons bla bla bla but for two players who cost nearly £130m you expect much much more in terms of quality. Regardless of it was Frank Lampard, Sean Dyche, Jose Mourinho’s or Tony Pulis in charge.

If you're gonna point the finger at two newcomers to the league, to English football for being underwhelming no less, then you should do the same with the others because not everyone has been pulling the same weight. Those "others" don't even have some of the mitigating factors like Werner and Havertz. 

4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Even if Frank went out the door and was replaced, as we seen with Guus Hiddink that season he replaced Jose after we won the league in 2014/15, its not always an instant fix.

True but it's not the same situation with this, is it? Mourinho just burnt everyone out by then with his incessant need to create controversies and drama while Lampard just looks out of his depth right now.

4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Your right re Timos rutt but I would rather Giroud or Abraham who have been in amongst the goals in comparison to Timo in the last 12 matches, at least until we get results. Even more so because they offer more to the team as players right now. I am struggling to see why Timo should be included. If he was scoring goals it would be fine you could justify his inclusion for that but he’s not. I was glad to see he was in as CF today as I thought the players would be able to get him chances but they didnt and he didnt offer anything. 

Abraham and Giroud offer more to the team? Okay, Werner may not be offering much right now but at the same time, Abraham is a mixed bag in his contribution to our attacking play while Giroud is almost non-existent with it and is bloody slow and immobile. But hey ho, they are scoring goals...

Also, wouldn't dropping Werner just be dancing around the issue as opposed to actually addressing it? 

4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

The playing style is an issue yes but it’s obviously what FL is gonna keep persisting with so Giroud/Abraham more likely to score from crosses than Timo.

Again, isn't this just ultimately dancing around the issue rather than addressing it? 

I can't for the life of me understand why Lampard even bought players like Werner, Havertz, Ziyech but then make us play like Burnley. Better off signing players like Andy Carroll, Chris Wood so that we can spam crosses onto their head!

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16 hours ago, Jason said:

Not sure how much the wages really played a part based on how the transfer was reported - e.g. Cech, Lampard called to convince him, Cech went to Germany - and how Werner spoke about Lampard after joining us. The supposed interest from Guardiola was only reported after the transfer move happened and it was from the same person that broke the news in the first place.

Aguero is already 32 years old and as you alluded to, he is also injury prone. Plus, his contract expires at the end of this season, IIRC. Not surprising to see City looking for his successor, if you like, and it's not as if Jesus has done a convincing job in Aguero's absence.

Just because Werner played on the left wing for Germany, it doesn't mean his role is the same with whatever Lampard is asking him to do. It is clear as hell by now that Werner is NOT a winger. So, I do not know what is Lampard expecting and what are people expecting from Werner in that role. You can say "oh, he's got to adapt and can do more" but if someone is just not suited to a particular, especially after so many games, then he is just not suited to that role. God knows how many times I've mentioned this but Werner did his best work as a second striker at Leipzig but people now want him to be a winger? This is rather similar to Sarri trying to turn Kante into an attacking midfielder when he is never going to be one and his up-and-down performances in that role have proven that.

You are surprised by what he's putting out there in terms of effort? Were you saying this a month or more so ago? I don't think he is one to not put in the effort and for much, if not all, of this season, I haven't seen anyone complained about it despite him having to play an unfamiliar role. If you're gonna question Werner for the lack of the effort in some of the recent games, then you gotta question the others too because there are a lot of underwhelming individuals out there recently. Might well have something to do with Lampard overtraining the players during a free week and come matchday, they just look dead on their feet and aren't doing the basics right. Also, it's worth pointing out (again) that Werner has played the most minutes this season (1,833) and considering this is his first season in English football with the congested schedule etc, him suffering a burnt out of late isn't entirely out of the question either. 

If you're gonna point the finger at two newcomers to the league, to English football for being underwhelming no less, then you should do the same with the others because not everyone has been pulling the same weight. Those "others" don't even have some of the mitigating factors like Werner and Havertz. 

True but it's not the same situation with this, is it? Mourinho just burnt everyone out by then with his incessant need to create controversies and drama while Lampard just looks out of his depth right now.

Abraham and Giroud offer more to the team? Okay, Werner may not be offering much right now but at the same time, Abraham is a mixed bag in his contribution to our attacking play while Giroud is almost non-existent with it and is bloody slow and immobile. But hey ho, they are scoring goals...

Also, wouldn't dropping Werner just be dancing around the issue as opposed to actually addressing it? 

Again, isn't this just ultimately dancing around the issue rather than addressing it? 

I can't for the life of me understand why Lampard even bought players like Werner, Havertz, Ziyech but then make us play like Burnley. Better off signing players like Andy Carroll, Chris Wood so that we can spam crosses onto their head!

Re City. Who knows. Wages. Whatever. Them being linked doesn’t mean anything unless Pep actually has said it so many teams are linked with players. We also all know finances kept Liverpool from trying to buy him. He is reportedly on £270k a week here as was reported by several sources. 

Yes hes not a winger, its clear to see that because he doesn’t really take people on in 1 v 1s or particularly excel at crossing the ball or cresting chances. He needs to be more central I agree but if hes out there on the left, he has to do the job and has to try do more. £52m player who can only play one way isn’t exactly promising. Why don’t we just appoint Nagglesmann and sign every Leipzig player and recreate their whole team if he cannot adapt and do more? The Sarri comparison re Kante isnt exactly relevant because after a while Kante actually adapted and played some good stuff. Where as Werner is struggling in that left hand side role. The effort thing is relevant to a lot of players, it is, but  I just get the impression hes more frustrated when he plays as opposed to trying to rectify the fact hes struggling. Maybe he is burnt out, maybe not, we haven’t rotated players as often and that could affect many of them. Still think for a £52m player who has played left wing for a large period of his career at Stuttgart and Leipzig albeit slightly differently perhaps, he can be better there for us. Its not as if we have taken a centre back and put him there. 

Completely agree that others have struggled. No doubt one bit about that. Unfortunately when you cost a bit of money like Kai and Timo that will weight on people when they make their judgement. Sky pundits panned every attacking players of ours at half time because they were anonymous (harsh on Pulisic I felt he at least tried). Second half they were anonymous again bar Pulisic. When Pulisic wasn't in the starting 11 last season he got the same skepticism and people questioned whether he was good enough or not so why is it as if its anything new or not to be expected for these guys? It should be expected by now that any player coming into any PL team for large money, if they take a bit of time or struggle there will be a group who will ask the question if their good enough or call them flops or whatever. Its nothing new. You can go through the midfield and attack and point the finger at most of them here yes. But the new guys who were meant to elevate the team or add new strengths will always be the first to get criticism from outside/other fans/fans because price tags comes with expectations.

Jason cmon theres no doubt Tammy and Giroud right now offer more to this team. I can see your a fan of Werner, as many of us are and were initially excited of his arrival but he has been doing nothing in the last 6 or 7 games. Tammy may be a mixed bag but shown times this season and last he can bring something to this team. Giroud also and he may be slow or immobile at times but his link up and hold up play suits some of these players. Plus in the air both are taller and better so when we cross the ball more than Burnley by the looks of it due to the managers one dimensional approach, it makes me wonder why would you want a 5 ft 9 striker in there? Your saying its avoiding the problem or dancing around it or whatever you put it as but playing a 5 ft 9 striker over one of two 6 ft plus strikers when your game plan is heavily reliant on crossing is that not more of a problem? Lampards approach is a problem but until he leaves/is sacked/whatever, hes clearly not going to change. So doesnt that mean Timo offering nothing is more of a problem? 

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14 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Re City. Who knows. Wages. Whatever. Them being linked doesn’t mean anything unless Pep actually has said it so many teams are linked with players. We also all know finances kept Liverpool from trying to buy him. He is reportedly on £270k a week here as was reported by several sources. 

Yes hes not a winger, its clear to see that because he doesn’t really take people on in 1 v 1s or particularly excel at crossing the ball or cresting chances. He needs to be more central I agree but if hes out there on the left, he has to do the job and has to try do more. £52m player who can only play one way isn’t exactly promising. Why don’t we just appoint Nagglesmann and sign every Leipzig player and recreate their whole team if he cannot adapt and do more? The Sarri comparison re Kante isnt exactly relevant because after a while Kante actually adapted and played some good stuff. Where as Werner is struggling in that left hand side role. The effort thing is relevant to a lot of players, it is, but  I just get the impression hes more frustrated when he plays as opposed to trying to rectify the fact hes struggling. Maybe he is burnt out, maybe not, we haven’t rotated players as often and that could affect many of them. Still think for a £52m player who has played left wing for a large period of his career at Stuttgart and Leipzig albeit slightly differently perhaps, he can be better there for us. Its not as if we have taken a centre back and put him there. 

Completely agree that others have struggled. No doubt one bit about that. Unfortunately when you cost a bit of money like Kai and Timo that will weight on people when they make their judgement. Sky pundits panned every attacking players of ours at half time because they were anonymous (harsh on Pulisic I felt he at least tried). Second half they were anonymous again bar Pulisic. When Pulisic wasn't in the starting 11 last season he got the same skepticism and people questioned whether he was good enough or not so why is it as if its anything new or not to be expected for these guys? It should be expected by now that any player coming into any PL team for large money, if they take a bit of time or struggle there will be a group who will ask the question if their good enough or call them flops or whatever. Its nothing new. You can go through the midfield and attack and point the finger at most of them here yes. But the new guys who were meant to elevate the team or add new strengths will always be the first to get criticism from outside/other fans/fans because price tags comes with expectations.

Am too mentally drained to argue at this point. All I'll say is if you don't give players the right platform to shine - be it Werner, Havertz or whoever else - then they are bound to fail. It's nonsense if you criticize the manager for poor coaching and then turn around to blame the players as well. This all feels like the Mourinho-De Bruyne situation from years ago.

17 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Jason cmon theres no doubt Tammy and Giroud right now offer more to this team. I can see your a fan of Werner, as many of us are and were initially excited of his arrival but he has been doing nothing in the last 6 or 7 games. Tammy may be a mixed bag but shown times this season and last he can bring something to this team. Giroud also and he may be slow or immobile at times but his link up and hold up play suits some of these players. Plus in the air both are taller and better so when we cross the ball more than Burnley by the looks of it due to the managers one dimensional approach, it makes me wonder why would you want a 5 ft 9 striker in there? Your saying its avoiding the problem or dancing around it or whatever you put it as but playing a 5 ft 9 striker over one of two 6 ft plus strikers when your game plan is heavily reliant on crossing is that not more of a problem? Lampards approach is a problem but until he leaves/is sacked/whatever, hes clearly not going to change. So doesnt that mean Timo offering nothing is more of a problem? 

That's assuming Lampard gets the sack but what if he doesn't get the sack? What if we suddenly turn our form around and he stays on? Then what? How are you gonna fit someone like Werner in if we continue to spam high crosses into the box?

And mind you, this isn't even just about spamming crosses to the strikers and whoever plays upfront. Take yesterday's game as an example, we even tried to spam high crosses for Pulisic, whose height is only 1.73m, and there are plenty of other examples from past games. 

Lampard has all these attacking players at his disposal. It's his fucking job to find a way, to find a playing style that suits majority of the players, if not all, and not only 1-2 players like Abraham and Giroud. Otherwise, we might as well start selling the likes of Pulisic, Werner and the other short players in the team and start buying giants!

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@OneMoSalah Giroud was signed as a competent sub, which is exactly his role in the squad - doing very well at that.

Abraham is clearly not good enough at this level - every top club in the PL have better options there (some WAY better).

That leaves Werner who is the prospect, in his first season in the PL strangely playing most games as a winger.

If Werner isn't it, then fine, we will go find someone else, but it's silly not to give him a fair shot as a striker. If he's in a bad patch, sit him and play either Giroud or Tammy, it's OK, but then only play him centralized. Odoi can cover the wings, and so can mount.

Players do what they train to do in both practice sessions and games. In my experience, moving players around in different positions always has a cost. Some players are naturally more versatile than others, but it's never too easy to change things up esp in a game like football where much of it comes from intuition.

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Just now, robsblubot said:

@OneMoSalah Giroud was signed as a competent sub, which is exactly his role in the squad - doing very well at that.

Abraham is clearly not good enough at this level - every top club in the PL have better options there (some WAY better).

That leaves Werner who is the prospect, in his first season in the PL strangely playing most games as a winger.

If Werner isn't it, then fine, we will go find someone else, but it's silly not to give him a fair shot as a striker. If he's in a bad patch, sit him and play either Giroud or Tammy, it's OK, but then only play him centralized. Oddoi can cover the wings, and so can mount.

Players do what they train to do in both practices and games. In my experience, moving players around in different positions always has a cost. Some players are more versatile than others, but it's never too easy to change things up esp in a game like football where much of it is intuitive.

I agree he has to play as a CF not out left but look at the way we play, until thats adapted or changed why would you play him as a CF? If its adapted even. We very rarely have space to play in behind teams which would suit Timo a lot more but instead we cross like mad from the wings, mainly the fullbacks. He’s not scoring headers above 6 ft plus CBs. Its not as if Chilwell is putting lower crosses in the same way Alonso did under Sarri for some of the goals Pedro scored in that season. Or the same from the right side. If we are going to play higher crosses, at the regularity and as our main means of chance creation then surely, Giroud has to be the man to get onto them or even Tammy?

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1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

I agree he has to play as a CF not out left but look at the way we play, until thats adapted or changed why would you play him as a CF? If its adapted even. We very rarely have space to play in behind teams which would suit Timo a lot more but instead we cross like mad from the wings, mainly the fullbacks. He’s not scoring headers above 6 ft plus CBs. Its not as if Chilwell is putting lower crosses in the same way Alonso did under Sarri for some of the goals Pedro scored in that season. Or the same from the right side. If we are going to play higher crosses, at the regularity and as our main means of chance creation then surely, Giroud has to be the man to get onto them or even Tammy?

Heh fair enough, but that’s a problem of the system, not the player.

abraham is also not that great in the air, which would make giroud our only option in that system.

a lot of top teams (most of them including City) play with mobile CFs just like Werner.

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3 hours ago, robsblubot said:

Heh fair enough, but that’s a problem of the system, not the player.

abraham is also not that great in the air, which would make giroud our only option in that system.

a lot of top teams (most of them including City) play with mobile CFs just like Werner.

Yeah, but a lot of those CF's have a great first touch and can operate in tight areas, and play with their backs against the defense.

Other than dropping deep to receive the ball, I don't see how he can be successful as the lone CF.

He could thrived in a setup similar to what Liverpool used to have for Torres, but we don't. As someone already mentioned previously, we rarely play on the counter, thus leaving little room for our forwards to operate in.

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5 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

Yeah, but a lot of those CF's have a great first touch and can operate in tight areas, and play with their backs against the defense.

Other than dropping deep to receive the ball, I don't see how he can be successful as the lone CF.

He could thrived in a setup similar to what Liverpool used to have for Torres, but we don't. As someone already mentioned previously, we rarely play on the counter, thus leaving little room for our forwards to operate in.

I'm not dismissing the criticism on werner as he's been very poor lately, but again, it's his first season in the PL and he's not the finished product. Even his first touch has been better... he just seems a bit off atm imo.

Way too soon to give up on him.

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Speaking of Werner being used centrally, here's what Lampard said when he was asked about it on Sunday...

 

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So how do you translate player performance from their previous club, it is simple, play him in almost similar role preferably the same role. Werner was great for leipzig as 2nd striker where he was free to move around and run behind. Havertz was playing mostly false 9 last season but he can't play false 9 in epl, he simply doesn't have the physical attributes nor the tenacity to play there, so what is the closest to false 9, number 10. So both need a to play off a no 9 like tammy/Giroud. 

Tammy

Werner - Havertz 

You can force Pulisic in and sort of play 

Tammy - Werner 

Pulisic - Havertz 

Similar to what pellegrini used to do with city. 

This formation looks good and fun, but Pulisic and Werner and turnover machine, their game are very2 direct, with such offensive lineup you need to keep the ball a lot in order to keep being countered. So this is not a suitable. 

So realisticaly

Tammy

Werner - Havertz

are your attacker if you want to get the best out of Werner and Havertz. With this Werner and Havertz are free to float around while being supported by good base behind them.  

Of course, the biggest problem of that lineup is that we have puli, Ziyech. So it is almost Werner/puli, Havertz /Ziyech which is the problem that Lamp is having. So what Lamp did was played Havertz deeper, which is fine but it doesn't get the best out of him. 

This is the biggest problem of Werner and Havertz signing, they look very2 good on paper but I am not sure they are a natural fit with this team. 

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  • 1 month later...

MOTM tonight.

Also our top assister in the league this season (5). More assists than goals. 😅

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5 minutes ago, different level said:

Did well tonight but still sooo far from what he's supposed to be for us. It's never a good thing for a striker if people say: You see, he might not be scoring, but he is still playing well and contributing.

Think people need to readjust their perception of Werner. He's more like a Pedro type player as opposed to an out-and-out #9. 

And please, don't go confuse that with me making excuses for his misses!

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