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11. Timo Werner


Jas
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Also, not sure how missing chances equate to being low on confidence, especially when it's been only 2 games. Do you know Werner personally to know that? Yes, it's frustrating to see Werner fluffed his lines in the last two games but at the same time and for example, he also went and created that second goal at Newcastle on the counter attack with the searing pace of his. Strikers, players etc miss chances. It happens and happens to even the best. As long as Werner continues to score more than he misses, I don't see why there should be a concern and I think his career numbers so far back that up. Would be more concerned if he wasn't getting at the end of chances or if he was shirking away after missing a chance. Rather than let it affect him, he usually just dusts himself off and go again, try to get at the of chances and score.

Do you think I hate Werner or something? I want him to be our main starter, but I'm being real for now. The chances he's missing is unacceptable to be honest, and yes it scares me that he's capable of that at this very moment. I just want him to be rested for the Spurs game that's it, that game is a season defining game in my eyes. If we beat Spurs then their confidence will be very low and it gives them a blow to their title hopes for sure.

 

Imagine if Werner also has a stinker against Spurs? He won't be getting as many chances in that game, because Spurs is a more solid team than all of the teams we've won against in the last 5-6 games. We need someone reliable who is able to put the ball in the net at any moment in the game. That's why I hope that Pulisic will be fit, because he'll be a better LW.

 

If any neutral looked at Werner in the last 2 performances then they can clearly tell that he is not that confident in front of goal. He is missing the easiest chances! Even when he played against Sheffield he needed 2 or 3 chances to score. A striker who's playing against a team like Spurs should only need 1 chance to score against them. Jose made them a defensively solid team. Werner missing chances would not be the same against them, it could cost us the game literally whereas with teams like Rennes, Sheffield and Newcastle it's different. Their lower level teams so you'll always get chances to score against them.

 

 

 

 

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Really taking the piss now 

Werner has never been the most clinical of players. Last season in the Bundesliga he recorded 20 big chances missed, only second to Lewandowski at 24. That said, it comes with the territory. He's

he has a real mentality off the field but also different level on it. Hard doesn't faze him, but he's a killer, he is going to get tons of goals this season.

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40 minutes ago, Azul said:

I'm not talking about what Lampard will do, but what I hope will happen. I think Lampard will start Werner but I think it's better to give him a rest, because he can easily flop in that game since his confidence is at an all time low right now.

 

CHO has looked amazing in the international break, and looked very good today as well. We also know how good Pulisic is, even if he just came back from injuries. He is the type of player that still performs after a long lay-off, we've seen it last season.

 

Werner's missed chances are abnormal, he looks completely lost at the moment. That's why I think it's a bit too much to start him against Spurs. He might flop, or he might look world class. We don't know which Timo we'll get, and that's what scares me at the moment.

 

 

 

Huge overreaction. if his confidence was at an all time low, he would not have done that run that started from his own half that assisted Abraham  against Newcastle. He is not low on confidence. He has made some poor decisions in final third but he is still contributing. This will be put to bed next time he scores.

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2 minutes ago, Azul said:

Do you think I hate Werner or something? I want him to be our main starter, but I'm being real for now. The chances he's missing is unacceptable to be honest, and yes it scares me that he's capable of that at this very moment. I just want him to be rested for the Spurs game that's it, that game is a season defining game in my eyes. If we beat Spurs then their confidence will be very low and it gives them a blow to their title hopes for sure.

Imagine if Werner also has a stinker against Spurs? He won't be getting as many chances in that game, because Spurs is a more solid team than all of the teams we've won against in the last 5-6 games. We need someone reliable who is able to put the ball in the net at any moment in the game. That's why I hope that Pulisic will be fit, because he'll be a better LW.

If any neutral looked at Werner in the last 2 performances then they can clearly tell that he is not that confident in front of goal. He is missing the easiest chances! Even when he played against Sheffield he needed 2 or 3 chances to score. A striker who's playing against a team like Spurs should only need 1 chance to score against them. Jose made them a defensively solid team. Werner missing chances would not be the same against them, it could cost us the game literally whereas with teams like Rennes, Sheffield and Newcastle it's different. Their lower level teams so you'll always get chances to score against them.

Like I said, you're being overly paranoid. 

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

Like I said, you're being overly paranoid. 

Or overly critical. To be expected on here though Mount got it, Pulisic got some shit cause he was injured, now Werner getting it after 2 meh games. Some people will never be happy. 

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5 minutes ago, Azul said:

Some people are emotional crybabies on here. I just said that he needs to be rested for Spurs and all hell breaks loose. Unbelievable stuff.

No, you didn't. You said he needs a rest and then went on talking about him missing chances, being low on confidence etc. 

If you had just said he needs a rest on Sunday, no one would have really replied to your posts.

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Just now, Jason said:

No, you didn't. You said he needs a rest and then went on talking about him missing chances, being low on confidence etc. 

It is a fact that he is missing clear and easy chances though. Why do I think that's the case? Because he's low on confidence after Spain spanked Germany 6-0. Do I have tangible evidence for that? No it's just a theory, you can believe it or not.

At the end of the day it, my point still stands I believe needs a rest. If you don't then fine you have your own opinions innit. But don't start saying that I'm panicking or hating on Werner when that's clearly not the case. 

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Of all the players we bought this season, Werner concerns me the most. 

On one hand he works his ass off, is good at finding space and has shown that he has that magic quality where he can conjure something out of nothing (usually due to his insane speed)

At the same time, it is becoming more and more clear that he lacks many qualities that we need. His passing, ability to retain the ball, first touch and even finishing can be atrocious at times. He has missed several amazing opportunities already, and low blocks in particular cancel him out.
I am wondering more and more whether he is better suited as a "Kalou" type of player for us (super sub that can also start less important games) rather than our leading man for future years. His problems are not coming from adapting to the league (such as it might be for Kai), but rather from his abilities.

I realize this isnt a very original take, but imagine having someone like Haaland in those spots instead. 

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Haaland isn't available.

Werner skill does not concern me at all. He may lack skill and passing for a winger, the same way that if you'd give Silva the number 10 his passing would look like shit. Wenger is twice the striker Abraham is and should always play ahead of him.

I am, however, concerned with Wenger becoming a de facto winger at chelsea (if not by trade, by accident) and that may make things harder for him, eventually affecting his confidence.  

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3 hours ago, Rekin said:

Of all the players we bought this season, Werner concerns me the most. 

On one hand he works his ass off, is good at finding space and has shown that he has that magic quality where he can conjure something out of nothing (usually due to his insane speed)

At the same time, it is becoming more and more clear that he lacks many qualities that we need. His passing, ability to retain the ball, first touch and even finishing can be atrocious at times. He has missed several amazing opportunities already, and low blocks in particular cancel him out.
I am wondering more and more whether he is better suited as a "Kalou" type of player for us (super sub that can also start less important games) rather than our leading man for future years. His problems are not coming from adapting to the league (such as it might be for Kai), but rather from his abilities.

I realize this isnt a very original take, but imagine having someone like Haaland in those spots instead. 

With the way people have been going about Werner missing chances, you would think this isn't someone who has scored 132 goals and even provided about 60 assists in his career. Heck, he already has 14 goals and 4 assists for club and country this season!

If Werner's passing, ability to retain the ball, first touch, finishing were so bad, he would not have been wanted by Hansi Flick, Klopp and even Guardiola and he wouldn't even be a fully fledged German international. 

On paper, yeah, Werner doesn't look suitable against low blocks but people haven't really been watching him over the past year or so, if they believe that's the case. He improved that part of his game under Nagelsmann and is getting better on it. He didn't score 34 goals for Leipzig in all competitions by accident last season and not everyone played a high line against them either. 

Think we can all agree that Werner needs a rest but the overreaction to his form because of the misses in the last 2 games has been :doh:

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1 hour ago, robsblubot said:

Wenger is twice the striker Abraham is and should always play ahead of him.

I am, however, concerned with Wenger becoming a de facto winger at chelsea (if not by trade, by accident) and that may make things harder for him, eventually affecting his confidence.  

We have a player named Wenger? :ph34r:

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Werner is doing so much right already – the odd miss can be excused

https://theathletic.com/2219400/2020/11/25/werner-chelsea-finishing/?source=emp_shared_article

It took Timo Werner less than four minutes to find the back of the Rennes net. The only problem for Chelsea was that he didn’t take the ball with him.

Hurdling goalkeeper Alfred Gomis and grabbing the netting with both hands, he bent over double in disbelief. Callum Hudson-Odoi’s low first-time cross from the right had been brilliant, verging on perfect, and yet Werner’s attempted tap-in had sent the ball arcing high into the stand behind the goal he ended up occupying.

“Timo wants to score that but the ball’s bobbling as it comes along and I know myself that those finishes look a lot easier from afar than they always are,” head coach Frank Lampard said afterwards, taking the sympathetic line.

Werner’s early miss didn’t prevent Chelsea from extending their winning streak to six games across all competitions. Nor did his late one; a scuffed shot from Hakim Ziyech’s pinpoint pass that Gomis deflected up into the air, leading directly to the towering Olivier Giroud headed winner that broke Rennes hearts. But both moments reinforced the notion there is still room to grow for a striker who has been largely as-advertised since arriving at Cobham as a hugely anticipated £52 million signing from RB Leipzig in July.

“I think it’s just normal that a player of Timo’s quality and where he is that he’s going to get even better, because he’s a top-class player,” Lampard added. “I’ve been really happy with him since he’s got here. He’s feeling his team-mates and his team-mates are feeling him, hence he’s getting in positions to score in every game; so more goals will come, as a progression from that.”

Eight goals — including three emphatic penalties — from his first 12 Chelsea appearances across all competitions was a particularly impressive return considering that, in addition to the usual challenges of adapting to a new team, league and style of play, he has also been shifted by Lampard from the central striking position he occupied on the Premier League’s opening weekend against Brighton & Hove Albion to a wide role on the left of a front three, working around and often in tandem with Tammy Abraham.

Last night’s 2-1 win in Rennes was the second game in the space of three days in which Werner’s wastefulness in front of goal prevented Chelsea turning clear superiority into a comfortable win; against Newcastle United on Saturday, he skewed one shot wide from near the penalty spot after good work from Abraham, then underhit an attempted square pass to Ziyech rather than try to beat Karl Darlow himself after dispossessing Fabian Schar to go clean through on goal.

But nothing in the overall numbers this season suggests Werner’s finishing has been a particular issue.

In fact, his five goals from open play across all competitions constitute a slight overachievement when compared with his non-penalty expected goals (npxG) rating of 4.0. He also significantly outperformed his npxG ratings in each of his final two Bundesliga seasons at Leipzig, giving us a solid body of evidence to support his reputation as one of the most efficient high-volume goalscorers in Europe.

Timo Werner's open-play goalscoring

SEASON
  
 MINUTES PLAYED
  
  NON-PENALTY   GOALS
  
NPXG
  
2018-19 2509  16 14
2019-20 2795 28 20
2020-21 770 4 3.7

Werner’s final Bundesliga campaign with RB Leipzig set an incredibly high benchmark to emulate at Chelsea. He scored 28 goals — of which only three were penalties — in 34 appearances against an expected goals (xG) rating of 22.3. His 0.81 non-penalty goals per 90 minutes in 2019-20 was the sixth-highest average in Europe’s big five leagues and of the five strikers ahead of him, only Bayern Munich’s Robert Lewandowski played a comparably large number of total minutes.

Europe's best open-play scorers 2019-20

STRIKER
  
MINUTES PLAYED     
  
NON-PENALTY GOALS
  
     NON-PENALTY GOALS/90
  
    NON-PENALTY XG90
  
Kylian Mbappe 1513 18 1.07 1.01
Robert Lewandowski 2759 29 0.95 0.77
Sergio Aguero 1452 14 0.87 0.73
Luis Muriel 1260 12 0.86 0.61
Mauro Icardi 1267 12 0.85 0.7
Timo Werner 2795 25 0.81 0.64
Josip Ilicic 1663 15 0.81 0.5
Duvan Zapata 2026 17 0.76 0.59
Andreas Cornelius 1494 12 0.72 0.43
Patrick Schick 1298 10 0.69 0.41

The early evidence suggests it’s a tall order to expect Werner to match that level of relentless goal threat from open play at Chelsea this season, and not through any fault of his own.

He’s simply playing a different role under Lampard, operating slightly wider in a team who can count on two or three prominent attacking options at any one time. He is averaging 2.31 shot attempts per 90 minutes across all competitions so far, putting him behind colleagues Abraham (3), Christian Pulisic (2.86) and Ziyech (2.35). Last season, he unsurprisingly led the Leipzig squad with 3.78 shot attempts per 90 minutes.

There’s plenty of time and potential for that to change, of course.

Werner could be deployed as a central striker again if Lampard sees a particular tactical need for it, if Abraham’s form dips or if the injured Pulisic returns to make the starting spot on the left his own. As they continue to grow in confidence and comfort with this dynamic 4-3-3 system, it’s also very possible that Chelsea will exert more pressure on opponents than ever before, giving all their attacking players more frequent opportunities to threaten the goal.

Werner has hit the ground running at Chelsea, and it’s easy to see why Lampard has come to consider him indispensable so quickly.

Even when not in positions of immediate danger, he always commands the attention of defenders, creating space and possibilities for the likes of Abraham and Ziyech with his mere presence. Whenever he does spark into action, he looks a unique nightmare to come up against, blending the devastating speed of Mohamed Salah with the predatory instincts of Sergio Aguero.

The fact that he has harnessed these gifts by the age of 24 should be even more frightening for Chelsea’s rivals. Werner has missed more of what Opta terms “big chances” (four) than he has scored (three) in the Premier League, yet he has already shown enough flashes to justify the formidable reputation he brought with him from Germany. It is hard to picture a scenario in which his finishing in key moments doesn’t improve with time and further experience.

Lampard’s more immediate concern should be the risk of burning Werner out. He has played more minutes (1,224) across all competitions than any Chelsea player this season and started all but one of his new club’s 15 matches — including last month’s trip to Burnley, when he was initially named among the substitutes but got drafted into the starting XI when Pulisic injured a hamstring in the warm-up. That rest is unlikely to come at home to Tottenham Hotspur in Sunday’s third vs first London derby, but heavier rotation will be unavoidable in a packed, eight-game December.

As long as Lampard can keep him fit and fresh, Werner will be a hugely valuable weapon for Chelsea — and the occasional jaw-dropping miss should only serve as a reminder of how much more there might be yet to come.

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As cool executioners go the best ever was Nacho Scocco imo (Argentinian - River Plate - played for Sunderland too for a spell at the age of 36).
The least capable was Alvaro Morata, his brain went funny when infront of goal.

It's a trick of the eye sometimes with those players. They do manage to place themselves in good positions in the penalty box and when the ball reaches them at the right angle they score some fantastic goals. It's when they have to stop and think that you see the shortcomings.
There was this other one the Cypriot Okkas (problem boy like Morata). One time one of his teammates managed a splendid pass, the defense was split and he raced alone towards the goalkeeper. The tv speaker was one who supported his team (Olympiakos) and he went "Georgevitch, what a terrific pass, and it's Okkas now with only the goalkeeper to beat and er-er-oh it's Okkas, it's a certain miss - forget it". True to form Okkas kicked the ball straight to the keeper for an easy catch.

Timo does n't remotely look like a Morata but maybe he can improve his finishing touch.

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2 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

Timo does remotely look like a Morata

First, the Kalou comparison and now Morata? People have seriously lost the plot. 

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9 minutes ago, Jason said:

First, the Kalou comparison and now Morata? People have seriously lost the plot. 

I said he does n't look even remotely like one of those cases.
But some improvement may be possible.

 

p.s does n't - the press daemon

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I've got no concerns over Werner. He had a really poor game last night where nothing seemed to go right but the biggest positive was despite that, he never hid. He was still prepared to track back when we were under pressure and still made himself available for the ball including in the last minute leading up to the goal. Similarly against Newcastle, despite missing a couple of chances he kept going and didn't let it affect him which led to a superb assist to kill the game off. I'm comparing this to the likes of Torres and Morata who when short of confidence would hide and not want the ball, effectively leaving us with 10 men.

I think over the next couple of weeks Werner will get some rest as the Sevilla and Krasnodar games can afford Lampard to do that, as well as I believe a free week shortly after for the league cup games. 

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