Hakim Ziyech

[ZAPHOD2319 3,867]

His lack of hustle tonight was concerning.

[MoroccanBlue 5,192]

Think many need to come to terms he is simply a luxury player only. 

[LAM09 6,535]

44 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Think many need to come to terms he is simply a luxury player only. 

His preseason form & Super Cup outing gave some of us hope that that was a sign of things to come. So far, it hasn't been. 

[Jase 43,479]

🤣

[LAM09 6,535]

People are probably realising why he remained in Holland for so long.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,773]

5 hours ago, LAM09 said:

People are probably realising why he remained in Holland for so long.

It was obvious that there must be a reason why he was where he was at that stage of his career. Some of us made this point while his transfer was being discussed.

There are some truths that those responsible for Chelsea's player recruitment must learn if they don't already know them and which they must not ignore if they do: -

     Never buy on form.

     If a player's touch is poor when he's 18 it will be poor when he's 28. Ignore anyone who tells you otherwise. They are either not old enough or not observant enough to know better.

     If an outfield player in the prime of his career is playing at a lower level than it looks like he should be aware that there is a reason why he's where he is. A good reason.

    Chelsea should never pay elite level transfer fees because established elite players never choose Chelsea. We have no choice but to try to find the elite players before they have established themselves.

[OneMoSalah 8,609]

1 hour ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

It was obvious that there must be a reason why he was where he was at that stage of his career. Some of us made this point while his transfer was being discussed.

There are some truths that those responsible for Chelsea's player recruitment must learn if they don't already know them and which they must not ignore if they do: -

     Never buy on form.

     If a player's touch is poor when he's 18 it will be poor when he's 28. Ignore anyone who tells you otherwise. They are either not old enough or not observant enough to know better.

     If an outfield player in the prime of his career is playing at a lower level than it looks like he should be aware that there is a reason why he's where he is. A good reason.

    Chelsea should never pay elite level transfer fees because established elite players never choose Chelsea. We have no choice but to try to find the elite players before they have established themselves.

Pretty sure guys like Kante, Drogba, Vardy, Maguire, Lampard, Kane, Kolo Toure and other late bloomers/players who developed well despite having glaring weaknesses/not being at the top level have disproved this “if their touch is shite at 18 then its gonna be shite at 28” thing ten times over. Which basically is like saying if your a shit footballer at 18 your likely to be a shit footballer at 28. Which we know isn’t true. Its not as black and white as that, never has been, never will be. 

Granted Ziyech hasn’t done enough and looks out of his depth after a brief spell in pre season and in the SC but to use his example as why to never buy players is mind boggling. I mean if your going to tell me you seen Ziyech play at 18 as well I have to say that’s impressive but I doubt it…  

Also never buy on form? Why do you think players get moves more than 50% of the time? From playing badly? No, from having had an amazing run of form/season.

I see the point your trying to make but not everyone falls into the same basket, its different on a case by case basis. 

Edited October 1, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[manpe 10,855]

Bust. Looks uninterested, too lightweight and easily bullied. Needs acres of space to pick a pass, but can't beat a man to create that space.

Sell and buy a proper winger.

[Tomo 21,681]

6 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Pretty sure guys like Kante, Drogba, Vardy, Maguire, Lampard, Kane, Kolo Toure and other late bloomers/players who developed well despite having glaring weaknesses/not being at the top level have disproved this “if their touch is shite at 18 then its gonna be shite at 28” thing ten times over. Which basically is like saying if your a shit footballer at 18 your likely to be a shit footballer at 28. Which we know isn’t true. Its not as black and white as that, never has been, never will be. 

Granted Ziyech hasn’t done enough and looks out of his depth after a brief spell in pre season and in the SC but to use his example as why to never buy players is mind boggling. I mean if your going to tell me you seen Ziyech play at 18 as well I have to say that’s impressive but I doubt it…  

Also never buy on form? Why do you think players get moves more than 50% of the time? From playing badly? No, from having had an amazing run of form/season.

I see the point your trying to make but not everyone falls into the same basket, its different on a case by case basis. 

That's not true, many players who are shit in the present time but their natural talent is still acknowledged (case in point Hudson Odoi).

Players skillset is defined very early (for example had Josh McEachran made it was obvious it would have been in the Pirlo/Cesc mould instead of the Vieira/Essien one) the only question mark is what level they get up to with said skillset.

To conclude with another example, if someone comes at you with a crystal ball today and says in a few years from now either Christensen or Zouma mature into a Thiago Silva esque defender while the other evolves into a Vidic lite one, I don't think anyone on the planet will be under any illusions as to which will be which.

[LAM09 6,535]

13 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

It was obvious that there must be a reason why he was where he was at that stage of his career. Some of us made this point while his transfer was being discussed.

There are some truths that those responsible for Chelsea's player recruitment must learn if they don't already know them and which they must not ignore if they do: -

     Never buy on form.

     If a player's touch is poor when he's 18 it will be poor when he's 28. Ignore anyone who tells you otherwise. They are either not old enough or not observant enough to know better.

     If an outfield player in the prime of his career is playing at a lower level than it looks like he should be aware that there is a reason why he's where he is. A good reason.

    Chelsea should never pay elite level transfer fees because established elite players never choose Chelsea. We have no choice but to try to find the elite players before they have established themselves.

All of your points ring true to an extent. Players can be on a hot streak and continue that trajectory (Kante being one), but it's more often than that it ends, and you truly see where the player is at.

The last point is something far too many fall foul of when silly season comes around and think we ought to be in the mix for said player. As you stated, we need to find the next big thing before they become superstars. Shame we didn't see it through with De Bruyne & Salah, to name just two.

[Jase 43,479]

22 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

It was obvious that there must be a reason why he was where he was at that stage of his career. Some of us made this point while his transfer was being discussed.

There are some truths that those responsible for Chelsea's player recruitment must learn if they don't already know them and which they must not ignore if they do: -

     Never buy on form.

     If a player's touch is poor when he's 18 it will be poor when he's 28. Ignore anyone who tells you otherwise. They are either not old enough or not observant enough to know better.

     If an outfield player in the prime of his career is playing at a lower level than it looks like he should be aware that there is a reason why he's where he is. A good reason.

    Chelsea should never pay elite level transfer fees because established elite players never choose Chelsea. We have no choice but to try to find the elite players before they have established themselves.

How about never buy players from the Dutch Eredivisie?

21 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Granted Ziyech hasn’t done enough and looks out of his depth after a brief spell in pre season and in the SC

Remember what you were saying about Ziyech back then? 

[LAM09 6,535]

4 hours ago, Jase said:

How about never buy players from the Dutch Eredivisie?

We bought Kalou and he didn't do too bad.

Edited October 2, 2021 by LAM09

[Jase 43,479]

19 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

We bought Kalou and he didn't do too bad.

How many donkey years ago was that?

[LAM09 6,535]

1 hour ago, Jase said:

How many donkey years ago was that?

A while ago, but the point still remains. There are a few gems that are worth looking at alongside the duds.

[Vesper 27,282]

Ziyech has a big job to convince Tuchel he’s worth a key role in his Chelsea team

https://theathletic.com/2886569/2021/10/13/ziyeziyech-has-a-big-job-to-convince-tuchel-hes-worth-a-key-role-in-Chelsea-team/

If there was a poll to determine the most disappointing player Chelsea signed in 2020, who would get your vote?

It was a transfer splurge no Chelsea fan will forget. After going two windows without buying anybody — one due to a FIFA embargo, the other out of choice — a club-record £200 million-plus was spent on five players: Kai Havertz, Timo Werner, Ben Chilwell, Hakim Ziyech and Edouard Mendy. Thiago Silva and Malang Sarr also joined as free agents.

One suspects Werner’s goalscoring issues, Havertz’s inconsistent form, given the talk about him being a generational talent and Chilwell’s spell on the sidelines this season might attract a bit of negative support. However, all three started and made their mark in the Champions League final victory in May. For many people, the fact Havertz scored the winner that night makes his fee, which could reach £90 million, value for money whatever happens next.

Only two of the seven didn’t feature in that game against Manchester City in Porto. Sarr was not available for selection having spent the season on loan — oddly enough, at Porto. The other was Ziyech, who was an unused substitute. Out of all the candidates, his name is probably the one most Chelsea followers would put an X by in this hypothetical poll.

Ziyech has spent too much of his 14-month Chelsea career watching the action from the sidelines. He has started just 16 times in the Premier League — and only 28 matches in all competitions — and still faces a real challenge to become a regular.

Misfortune has certainly played a part, with injuries in both pre-seasons hampering the Morocco international’s progress. There has been the odd flash of brilliance, and important goals in wins over Atletico Madrid, Manchester City (twice) and Villarreal this year demonstrated what an asset he can be.

But if you take yourself back to the excitement his signature generated when Chelsea bought him from Ajax for an initial £33 million, it would be fair to say he has underperformed.

In 165 appearances for Ajax, the attacking midfielder scored 49 goals and provided a remarkable 81 assists. In contrast, his Chelsea record reads seven goals and four assists from 45 games. Notably, he has not set up a team-mate’s goal yet this season.

Naturally, the difference in quality between the Dutch Eredivisie and the Premier League has to be taken into account. But this was a man who shone as Ajax came within moments of reaching the 2018-19 Champions League final. It was hoped he would bring this flair to Stamford Bridge.

To his credit, Ziyech admitted in February that he was finding the adaption to life in England on and off the pitch a bit of a struggle.

“It has been a difficult first six months for me,” he told Dutch media outlet Ziggo Sport. “I began with an injury, came back and then got injured again. Things have not gone as I had hoped.

“The pace of the game over here is much quicker than it was at Ajax. I picked that up straight away, and then I got injured in my first training game. That sets you back completely and then it happens again. It was bloody annoying.

“I am used to having my friends, and my mum, around me. Being without them has taken some getting used to and the (COVID-19) lockdown made matters worse. On top of that, I’ve had to learn how to drive on the other side of the road. I’ve not had any accidents, but it was very difficult at the start.”

A lot of Chelsea players benefitted from the arrival of Thomas Tuchel as head coach in January, but it could be argued Ziyech hasn’t been one of them. The change to a 3-4-2-1 formation has seen him pushed in-field when selected as one of the No 10s and he doesn’t look as comfortable there. It has also further exposed his struggle to press opponents and perform the more defensive side of the game, a facet Tuchel not just expects but demands.

His last outing for Chelsea in the Premier League was more than a month ago. When given a surprise start away to Juventus in the Champions League, he was ineffective for an hour and then replaced with Ruben Loftus-Cheek.

He then did not get on the pitch in Chelsea’s next, and most recent, match against Southampton and Tuchel, who also rested Havertz after an unconvincing spell in the side, explained why. The words were pretty damning. He said: “We always try to do our best to bring the players in the best shape but at some point, after a lot of chances, we have to admit that Kai and Hakim, for example, are not in their very best shape.

‘It’s maybe not even their fault, it’s just like this in the moment. They’re struggling to be decisive. They lost maybe the belief or confidence. Nobody is angry at them, nobody has major concerns, but we have to pay attention to actual form and we need to win games.”

It is that last line that should concern Ziyech most.

Tuchel sounds like a man who has lost trust in him at a juncture when competition for places is getting even more intense. The German has even more options to choose from, with Ross Barkley and Loftus-Cheek making a difference in recent weeks. Christian Pulisic is also getting closer to fitness following an ankle injury, and Havertz is always going to be high in the pecking order due to his price tag and talent.

A run of seven Chelsea fixtures in 22 days before the next international break in November should give Ziyech an opportunity to impress at some point, and it is important he takes it.

Considering he is about a quarter of the way through a five-year contract, time is still on his side to make a bigger impact at Stamford Bridge, but he won’t want to be relegated to the role of squad player.

In some performances, his body language has come across as dejected. That has not gone down well in the court of public opinion.

Another indication of Ziyech’s declining fortune is being dropped by Morocco. The head coach Vahid Halilhodzic accused him last month of feigning injury to get out of playing a friendly in June and left him out of the squad as punishment. The player took to Instagram to deny the claims, saying “next time you speak, tell the truth”.

The rift hasn’t been repaired but at least it gave him the opportunity to train with Tuchel during the international breaks in September and also this month, having not been called up for their October World Cup qualifiers against Guinea-Bissau and Guinea.

Encouragingly, though, he talks like a man doing his utmost to make the move to Chelsea a success. Speaking in April, he said: “It’s always about believing in yourself. You have some points where some things worry you, but you have to be mentally stronger.

“I’m the type of guy that always believes in myself, I always work hard in training. It’s not that it always comes out in games but I’m working hard every day on it. I know what I can do and I always trust in myself.”

Tuchel is going to be a lot harder to convince.

 

[robsblubot 3,205]

Good read. I'd say Ziyech plays in a different wavelength, but not only from Tuchel's style like the article suggests, but rather from the modern game and especially the PL.

[LAM09 6,535]

Someone we need to part ways with; just doesn't have the application to succeed over here.

He'd probably do an adequate job in Italy.

[Jase 43,479]

Since joining the club:

47 appearances

27 starts

2 completed matches