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Tomo
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I don't really want Rice here anymore, simply because of the fan discourse he would bring with him. Would be worse than Mount where after a good game he is the best midfielder in the world for one camp, and after a bad one he is the biggest fraud in the world to the other camp.

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4 minutes ago, Jas said:

Which "people" is Simon Johnson referring to? 

Wasn't the club not keen on Rice last year because they weren't convinced by him? Or was that due to the high fee wanted by West Ham?

Everything was pinned on Lampard for wanting Rice last summer but now the club have seemingly jumped onto the bandwagon, on top of Tuchel also reportedly liking Rice. 

To be fair it probably helps Rice enjoyed a great season, both on a personal level and team performance.

Back in 19/20 he was also one of West Ham's top performers but that year they only narrowly escaped relegation, whereas this past season they finished in European places with Rice again one of their most consistent players and England went on to play in the Euros final with Rice starting every game. If the club's higher ups weren't convinced by him before they certainly should be now.

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2 minutes ago, Jas said:

Eh?

Jorginho did not start in only 7 games under Tuchel last season - he was suspended for 1 of them; another 2 of those games were in the FA Cup while the remaining 4 were likely due to rotation/resting him. 

Kante and Kovacic had their injury issues but Tuchel rotated more between those two and some times between the three of them a bit when all 3 were available. 

Ah stand corrected

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2 minutes ago, Jype said:

To be fair it probably helps Rice enjoyed a great season, both on a personal level and team performance.

Back in 19/20 he was also one of West Ham's top performers but that year they only narrowly escaped relegation, whereas this past season they finished in European places with Rice again one of their most consistent players and England went on to play in the Euros final with Rice starting every game. If the club's higher ups weren't convinced by him before they certainly should be now.

Isn't that kinda worse, in that the club want him now on the back of a good season as opposed to basing on proper scouting, regardless of personal/team success? 

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8 minutes ago, Jas said:

Isn't that kinda worse, in that the club want him now on the back of a good season as opposed to basing on proper scouting, regardless of personal/team success? 

He is saying that the reason people weren't raving about him was because the team was bad,even though he was a consistent performer in both seasons. 

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5 minutes ago, Hashishi said:

He is saying that the reason people weren't raving about him was because the team was bad,even though he was a consistent performer in both seasons. 

I was talking from the club's perspective. 

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Think it’s all a moot point. Why would WH accept anything less than £100m or something? Unless Tammy is involved in the deal.

We’d be raving mad to spend that kind of cash straight up for a DM.

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10 minutes ago, Jas said:

Isn't that kinda worse, in that the club want him now on the back of a good season as opposed to basing on proper scouting, regardless of personal/team success? 

Maybe, maybe not. Us fans obviously don't know the full circumstances behind the scenes so it's hard to say.

We're talking about a huge investment needed to land Rice so I suppose it makes sense for the club to see whether he can keep playing consistently at a high level for a longer period of time to prove the previous season wasn't just a fluke and that he's the real deal before committing so much money on him?

Also, it could be that the club simply couldn't afford to get him last year and it ultimately came down to choosing either Rice or Havertz but not both, and the club ended up walking over Lampard to get the latter instead. There was some talk of the board not being fully convinced by Lampard as the manager so they may have had some doubts over committing so much funds on Rice if the next manager didn't fancy him anymore so instead they went for the universally highly rated player in Havertz, which I would think is the right thing to do at the time because the club can still get Rice later (he clearly wants desperately to play for Chelsea) whereas Havertz might not have been available this year anymore.

Now that Rice had a great season and Tuchel seems to rate him too it's "easier" for the board to sanction a deal if West Ham are open to negotiating. In a way it's a lot like Harry Maguire to Man Utd. Jose wanted him in 2018 after the World Cup but the club said no, only for them to pay up and get the player for Ole a year later.

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16 minutes ago, Jas said:

Isn't that kinda worse, in that the club want him now on the back of a good season as opposed to basing on proper scouting, regardless of personal/team success? 

Possibly but then it's also possible that they had reservations to certain aspects of his game that they've now seen improve and develop over the last 12 months.

For me, I'll sit on the fence with Rice. He's clearly not as comfortable on the ball in a progressive team as Jorginho is but he does offer a different skillset which we don't have within the squad, i.e. an old fashioned holding midfielder with good pace and a good engine and a big physical presence. Tuchel maybe looking at having that alternative option to sometimes change the way we play. For example some have mentioned about the possibility of changing to a back 4 at times to help with the offensive side of the team and Tuchel may be thinking the same, but feels he needs a more defensive presence then in midfield to balance things.

There is also the possibility that he can be viewed as an option for the defence which means we may be able to move someone like Zouma on to help towards funding a move. Or he does provide an option to change mid game between a back 4 to back 5 with him on the pitch, without needing to make sweeping substitutions. 

So he does bring a number of options and possibilities with him. It's a lot of money though for someone who I think still has areas of his game on the ball which need to continue to improve.

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4 minutes ago, Pizy said:

Think it’s all a moot point. Why would WH accept anything less than £100m or something? Unless Tammy is involved in the deal.

We’d be raving mad to spend that kind of cash straight up for a DM.

My brother in law is a hammers fan and is adamant the owners would find it hard pressed to reject anything in the £60m bracket. 

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If we didn't sign Havertz I would be at least 40% less excited for this squad. 

I see many want Rice. His partner in double pivot in WH scored double digits last season. Isn't he better player? He didn't finish last 5 games at EURO for England. 

At one point we will move to 4atb and 3 midfielders. Rice and Mount would play. If we are committing to that MF for next decade we are also committing to no attractive, attacking, progressive football for the next decade as well. With pragmatic football usually everything falls apart after a year or two. 

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Lampard wanted Rice, and all the target he was aiming for have come good. 

So I trust Lampard in that. Not as good as manager but good at spotting talent. 

I mean if it wasn't for Lampard we wouldn't have Mount. 

If Lampard, the club and now Tuchel are on board with Rice then I'm happy with that. 

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Apparently Timo Werner is open to a move away with being part of the deal to secure Haaland. 

🤔

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I really don’t care for the loss of academy players, the chances they become great players are rare. Just hope the club has mitigated their risk; you don’t want cases like Salah,KDB, Lukaku(even thought I don’t rate him), etc. where they become fantastic players elsewhere.

Wonder what is causing them to all leave in unison.

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29 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Lampard wanted Rice, and all the target he was aiming for have come good. 

So I trust Lampard in that. Not as good as manager but good at spotting talent. 

I mean if it wasn't for Lampard we wouldn't have Mount. 

If Lampard, the club and now Tuchel are on board with Rice then I'm happy with that. 

Tbf to Frank I think he is good at spotting players and helping them improve he just needs to work on the tactical side of his management. 

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11 minutes ago, DDA said:

Apparently Timo Werner is open to a move away with being part of the deal to secure Haaland. 

🤔

This new? Or this continuing on from last weeks MARCA article? 

Edited by MoroccanBlue
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2 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

This new? Or this continuing on from last weeks MARCA article? 

It is old reporting rehashed that was debunked.

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16 minutes ago, DDA said:

Apparently Timo Werner is open to a move away with being part of the deal to secure Haaland. 

🤔

 

4 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

This new? Or this continuing on from last weeks MARCA article? 

 

1 minute ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

It is old reporting rehashed that was debunked.

And ESPN went and talked about it like it's some sort of true story...

Werner literally spoke at length in May on why we doesn't want to leave, despite his struggles last season. 

If anything is gonna change, it'll be from the club side but nothing has come from the club side, nothing has been said by Matt Law, Simon Johnson etc. It also doesn't make sense wanting to sell him when the club and Tuchel are actively trying to get rid of Abraham. 

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