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On 13/02/2021 at 22:00, Jason said:

Can you seriously not see the difference? Unlike some of the other leagues, the Bundesliga is basically dominated by one team - Bayern Munich. Any time they have a team looking to seriously challenge them, they will look to buy their best player(s), thus strengthening their hold on the league while weakening the others. I don't have the full list of it now but am willing to bet that majority of their transfers over the years have been from the league itself. They will only buy from abroad if there are no viable options in Germany. The big teams in Spain, England have also bought players from within the league but they have also bought a lot of players from abroad. They do so more than Bayern.

From a player's perspective, sure, going to Bayern means they can easily win trophies especially the domestic competitions in Germany. It's good for the CV etc. But from a fan's perspective, it's really BS. You want to see the other teams in Germany also have quality players and can build a team to really challenge Bayern. But no, they can't do that because one of the reasons is that Bayern keep poaching their best players. Also, the Bundesliga is basically Bayern Munich while the Premier League have at least 5-6 big clubs, La Liga have at least 3 etc and there's also a difference between buying a player from say a second tier side within the league and buying one from a direct rival. How often do we see, for example, Man City buying a player from Man United or Liverpool buying from Spurs? 

Its only because they dominate the Bundesliga its different. In a matter of fact, they’ve always traditionally signed good players from the other teams in the Bundesliga and probably get better value for money than most teams in Europe. Its a successful business model and if it works why would they change it? It may degrade the quality of other teams but at the same time the money involved, that cash is huge for some of these clubs who run a sustainable business model which is fixed on buy cheap sell high. Clubs like Leipzig, like Leverkusen, like Dortmund. That model is also part of the problem because some of these sort of clubs will have a really good season and then think wow we can make €100m + for 3/4 players.

Aye its shite for the fans maybe but don’t think Bayern or there fans will really be bothered if they keep winning trophies. Or the other clubs if they make money from it using that sort of business model. Also it shows how good these German youth and scouting systems are that these clubs can somehow keep producing/buying youngsters of a reasonable level when they sell these players. Also if the other clubs were financially as well off as Bayern it would be different, which is why it is less common in the PL but personally don’t see why people get so annoyed by this. Its not as if despite this the overhaul quality of the Bundesliga is decreasing either, they still produce strong teams, talented players, who are more than competitive enough which shows in Europe in the CL and Europa. Its not as if its the Portuguese league or Scottish league either. Juventus have always done it in previous years and particularly more recently, Dybala, Chiesa, Demiral, Bernadeschi, Kulusevski. Barcelona did it before with guys like Dani Alves, Samuel Eto’o, Jordi Alba, David Villa... more recently also with many players. This is a common thing in football, don’t see the huge upset...

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5 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Its only because they dominate the Bundesliga its different. In a matter of fact, they’ve always traditionally signed good players from the other teams in the Bundesliga and probably get better value for money than most teams in Europe. Its a successful business model and if it works why would they change it? It may degrade the quality of other teams but at the same time the money involved, that cash is huge for some of these clubs who run a sustainable business model which is fixed on buy cheap sell high. Clubs like Leipzig, like Leverkusen, like Dortmund. That model is also part of the problem because some of these sort of clubs will have a really good season and then think wow we can make €100m + for 3/4 players.

Aye its shite for the fans maybe but don’t think Bayern or there fans will really be bothered if they keep winning trophies. Or the other clubs if they make money from it using that sort of business model. Also it shows how good these German youth and scouting systems are that these clubs can somehow keep producing/buying youngsters of a reasonable level when they sell these players. Also if the other clubs were financially as well off as Bayern it would be different, which is why it is less common in the PL but personally don’t see why people get so annoyed by this. Its not as if despite this the overhaul quality of the Bundesliga is decreasing either, they still produce strong teams, talented players, who are more than competitive enough which shows in Europe in the CL and Europa. Its not as if its the Portuguese league or Scottish league either. Juventus have always done it in previous years and particularly more recently, Dybala, Chiesa, Demiral, Bernadeschi, Kulusevski. Barcelona did it before with guys like Dani Alves, Samuel Eto’o, Jordi Alba, David Villa... more recently also with many players. This is a common thing in football, don’t see the huge upset...

Of course Bayern and their fans won't care if they keep winning trophies. They monopolize the league, buy the best players from others to strengthen themselves and weaken others to ensure they stay the best in their own country.

And you're now missing the point. Yes, Leipzig, Leverkusen, Dortmund etc can all be competitive but not competitive enough to challenge Bayern over the course of the season. Take Bayern out of the Bundesliga, the rest is fun but otherwise from a neutral perspective, it's boring because we know who is gonna win the league every season unless Bayern have an absolute stinking season. That's the point. Nobody wants to see a league that is dominated only by a team and then the rest are just decent, are just there to make up the numbers when it comes to challenging for the major titles. That is why it's refreshing for a change to suddenly see the Milan sides challenging Juventus for the title this season, although it won't be a surprise if Juventus win the league again from their position now but that's another debate. 

Also, you said the Bundesliga teams are more than competitive enough in Europe in the Champions League and Europa League. Apart from Bayern, when was the last time a German side really made an impression or even won anything in Europe? In the recent Champions League seasons, it was only Dortmund under Klopp that got to the final in 2013 and then lost to Bayern. Otherwise you will have to go all the way back to 2001/02 to see another side in Leverkusen going all the way to the final. And similar story in the Europa League. In the last 23 seasons of the competition, only 2 German clubs have reached the final - Dortmund in 2002 and Werder Bremen in 2009 - and both lost. The Bundesliga have good teams to compete in the Champions League and Europa League but Bayern aside, none are good enough to go all the way. 

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6 hours ago, Jason said:

Of course Bayern and their fans won't care if they keep winning trophies. They monopolize the league, buy the best players from others to strengthen themselves and weaken others to ensure they stay the best in their own country.

And you're now missing the point. Yes, Leipzig, Leverkusen, Dortmund etc can all be competitive but not competitive enough to challenge Bayern over the course of the season. Take Bayern out of the Bundesliga, the rest is fun but otherwise from a neutral perspective, it's boring because we know who is gonna win the league every season unless Bayern have an absolute stinking season. That's the point. Nobody wants to see a league that is dominated only by a team and then the rest are just decent, are just there to make up the numbers when it comes to challenging for the major titles. That is why it's refreshing for a change to suddenly see the Milan sides challenging Juventus for the title this season, although it won't be a surprise if Juventus win the league again from their position now but that's another debate. 

Also, you said the Bundesliga teams are more than competitive enough in Europe in the Champions League and Europa League. Apart from Bayern, when was the last time a German side really made an impression or even won anything in Europe? In the recent Champions League seasons, it was only Dortmund under Klopp that got to the final in 2013 and then lost to Bayern. Otherwise you will have to go all the way back to 2001/02 to see another side in Leverkusen going all the way to the final. And similar story in the Europa League. In the last 23 seasons of the competition, only 2 German clubs have reached the final - Dortmund in 2002 and Werder Bremen in 2009 - and both lost. The Bundesliga have good teams to compete in the Champions League and Europa League but Bayern aside, none are good enough to go all the way. 

Maybe it is boring but it doesn't mean the quality of the other teams isn’t there or that Bayern aren’t a very good team either. 

Also, the whole Milan challenging thing right now is more to do with how Juventus are decreasing in quality as opposed to anything else. No doubt Milan are a good side and now they have consistency but Juventus have been pretty poor by their standards for the last 18 months and cannot maintain any sort of consistency in their performances. If Inter were better last season they’d have won the league also but they choked. 

When I said about being competitive, reaching the final was not what I meant and I am surprised you jumped straight to that, but the likes of Leipzig, Dortmund, Mochengladbach also this season all still got through the groups containing clubs with bigger budgets and better squads - Mochengladbach went through ahead of Inter for instance and Shakhtar who surprised everyone and Leipzig qualified ahead of Man United. Okay Dortmund you’d of expected to go through their group but the other 2 not so much. Its also not as if anyone is expecting a club like this to reach a CL final or even a semi final. Thats not the point I am making. They still remain reasonably competitive and manage to reach the 1st or some the 2nd rounds of knockouts which seems to be the new norm for clubs now a days, particularly these sort or clubs that are used as stepping stones and have high turnovers of their best players every 2 seasons or so. Leipzig last season reached the quarters IIRC and have a tough tie this season v Liverpool but they are competitive enough to make a real go of that and the way Liverpool are playing also, know whos? Dortmund again play Seville which is a match you’d think they have the players to beat despite competitively struggling in the Bundesliga, although Mochengladbach will struggle v City.  Im not saying any of these should reach the final or are good enough absolutely not but they are still good teams. The fact most of these teams sell their best players domestically or to clubs abroad is an indication of this. Why would so many people sign players from German clubs if not?

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38 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Maybe it is boring but it doesn't mean the quality of the other teams isn’t there or that Bayern aren’t a very good team either. 

When I said about being competitive, reaching the final was not what I meant and I am surprised you jumped straight to that, but the likes of Leipzig, Dortmund, Mochengladbach also this season all still got through the groups containing clubs with bigger budgets and better squads - Mochengladbach went through ahead of Inter for instance and Shakhtar who surprised everyone and Leipzig qualified ahead of Man United. Okay Dortmund you’d of expected to go through their group but the other 2 not so much. Its also not as if anyone is expecting a club like this to reach a CL final or even a semi final. Thats not the point I am making. They still remain reasonably competitive and manage to reach the 1st or some the 2nd rounds of knockouts which seems to be the new norm for clubs now a days, particularly these sort or clubs that are used as stepping stones and have high turnovers of their best players every 2 seasons or so. Leipzig last season reached the quarters IIRC and have a tough tie this season v Liverpool but they are competitive enough to make a real go of that and the way Liverpool are playing also, know whos? Dortmund again play Seville which is a match you’d think they have the players to beat despite competitively struggling in the Bundesliga, although Mochengladbach will struggle v City.  Im not saying any of these should reach the final or are good enough absolutely not but they are still good teams. The fact most of these teams sell their best players domestically or to clubs abroad is an indication of this. Why would so many people sign players from German clubs if not?

Again, not the point. I didn't say the other Bundesliga sides aren't good enough or aren't competitive. They are good and competitive but not good enough to beat Bayern over the course of a season. For example, twice in the last 3-4 seasons Bayern gave everyone else a "headstart" and the others, especially Dortmund, bottled the chance to win the Bundesliga. And yes, they are good to cause one or two shocks around in Europe but not quite good enough to go all the way and do it consistently every season. 

38 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Also, the whole Milan challenging thing right now is more to do with how Juventus are decreasing in quality as opposed to anything else. No doubt Milan are a good side and now they have consistency but Juventus have been pretty poor by their standards for the last 18 months and cannot maintain any sort of consistency in their performances. If Inter were better last season they’d have won the league also but they choked. 

It's both case. Yes, Juventus have dropped their level but at the same time, Inter and Milan have also improved. Inter with their heavy investment and Milan with their development of young players and blend with the more experienced players. Part of the reason why Juventus were able to win so many consecutive league titles was because the others weren't good enough like Inter and Milan. 

In any case, at least there's a bit more excitement to the Serie A title race these days, even if Juventus might win it again. Compare it to the Bundesliga, there's like a Grand Canyon separating Bayern and the rest of the team when it comes to the title race. 

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4 hours ago, killer1257 said:

I wonder who Tuchel wants next season. But as far as I remember, many of PSG's recent transfers were not that great

Leonardo and him clashed over signings and I think he maybe had less say than he would of wanted. Also renewals for players such as Cavani and Thiago Silva. 
 

4 hours ago, Jason said:

Again, not the point. I didn't say the other Bundesliga sides aren't good enough or aren't competitive. They are good and competitive but not good enough to beat Bayern over the course of a season. For example, twice in the last 3-4 seasons Bayern gave everyone else a "headstart" and the others, especially Dortmund, bottled the chance to win the Bundesliga. And yes, they are good to cause one or two shocks around in Europe but not quite good enough to go all the way and do it consistently every season. 

It's both case. Yes, Juventus have dropped their level but at the same time, Inter and Milan have also improved. Inter with their heavy investment and Milan with their development of young players and blend with the more experienced players. Part of the reason why Juventus were able to win so many consecutive league titles was because the others weren't good enough like Inter and Milan. 

In any case, at least there's a bit more excitement to the Serie A title race these days, even if Juventus might win it again. Compare it to the Bundesliga, there's like a Grand Canyon separating Bayern and the rest of the team when it comes to the title race. 

I suppose but tbf its nothing suprising either, Bayern are arguably miles ahead of most top teams in Europe also not just Bundesliga teams. Even losing Thiago and next season Boateng and Alaba they will still be one of the best teams in Europe comfortably.  

Serie A will be interesting more now but still think this goes on cycles, in a few seasons likely one team will be a dominant force again and then La Liga will be great for neutrals as its a mix up of a few good teams going the title, cant see past Atletico this season who have 2 games in hand but they will probably sell/Barca and Real will invest heavily. Then the PL or other leagues. Bundesliga maybe not but Klopp showed it could be done with Dortmund and Hasenhuttl also had Leipzig running Bayern when Carlo was there but changed when they got Rid of him. Nagglesmann potentially if they kept their best players could of been one that may have disrupted them but doesnt fit Leipzigs business model to keep their top players. 

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19 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Real will need a new manager if they are going to win the CL again

ZZ is a fraud without peak CR7

Zidane just recently won La Liga without Ronaldo though.

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18 minutes ago, Blues Forever said:

Zidane just recently won La Liga without Ronaldo though.

winning La Liga is hardly a wonder feat

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13 minutes ago, Vesper said:

winning La Liga is hardly a wonder feat

Why hasn't any other manager in Real Madrid won the CL three times in a row with the same squad? Put some respect on Zizou.

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1 minute ago, Azul said:

Why hasn't any other manager in Real Madrid won the CL three times in a row with the same squad? Put some respect on Zizou.

they didn't have as good a supporting cast

ZZ is vastly overrated as a manager, sorry

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5 minutes ago, Vesper said:

they didn't have as good a supporting cast

ZZ is vastly overrated as a manager, sorry

They had a better supporting cast under Mourinho. It's such a poor excuse. Real Madrid right now have an aging squad and need to revamp. A lot of unmotivated and old players that have won it all are in that team. It's a incredible feat that he managed to squeeze so many titles out of this squad before they became unmotivated.

Someone that has won 3 CL, and 2 La Liga titles can't be overrated. This disrespect I see online about him is unreal, and just plain stupid in my opinion.

If you truly analyse the game, then you'd know that he tactically outclassed many managers on his way to get all those honours.

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13 minutes ago, Azul said:

They had a better supporting cast under Mourinho. It's such a poor excuse. Real Madrid right now have an aging squad and need to revamp. A lot of unmotivated and old players that have won it all are in that team. It's a incredible feat that he managed to squeeze so many titles out of this squad before they became unmotivated.

Someone that has won 3 CL, and 2 La Liga titles can't be overrated. This disrespect I see online about him is unreal, and just plain stupid in my opinion.

If you truly analyse the game, then you'd know that he tactically outclassed many managers on his way to get all those honours.

to each his own

I disagree so we shall just have to agree to disagree

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5 minutes ago, Vesper said:

to each his own

I disagree so we shall just have to agree to disagree

Atleast give some arguments lol, is it just agenda based?👀

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30 minutes ago, Azul said:

They had a better supporting cast under Mourinho. It's such a poor excuse. Real Madrid right now have an aging squad and need to revamp. A lot of unmotivated and old players that have won it all are in that team. It's a incredible feat that he managed to squeeze so many titles out of this squad before they became unmotivated.

Someone that has won 3 CL, and 2 La Liga titles can't be overrated. This disrespect I see online about him is unreal, and just plain stupid in my opinion.

If you truly analyse the game, then you'd know that he tactically outclassed many managers on his way to get all those honours.

Lets put it this way. If VAR was the thing back in the day I do not think they would won once of those 3 titles. Same goes for Pep in 2 CL titles in Barca. Your avatar is about one.

Ok maybe Real once in first season when they had easy road to the final but then got lucky against Atletico with last second goal and penalties. 2 seasons after that they stole games from Bayern.

In Spanish footy is always about Real vs Barca so one LaLiga in 3 season is hardly a success. Last season it was the fight who is more worse and Real won. No one deserved title. This season again and Atletico is using very well this situation.

 

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