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Billy Gilmour


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13 minutes ago, Jas said:

 

Here is hoping but again, someone can say “real thoughts been put into the loan” but we won’t really know to we see Farke’s first few selections in competitive games but theres a few Scottish lads (Grant Hanley and Kenny McLean) at Norwich and they do try to play with Farke so it’s promising.

And even then, isn’t “real thought” not meant to put into every loan? 😂

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I'm worried about him now, expectations have now become far too high. Soon as he hits as bad run of form the impatient crew who have systematically blasted Mason and Tammy will make this thread a

A 18 year old making his debut as a sub for 20 minutes and you're writing him off I've never heard something so ridiculous. How the fuck can someone be called ordinary when you've seen him play for 20

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57 minutes ago, Fernando said:

But he has a contract until: Jun 30, 2023

Aye but how many times have we had someone sign a new deal then be loaned out immediately after?!

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It's looking like this Norwich move is on the cusp of being completed.

I'd much rather keep him here next season. Jorginho can't play every game, and we don't have another player in the squad besides Gilmour who plays his role in an effective manner. I think Gilmour had a couple of good performances at the end of the season when Tuchel needed to rotate the troops and hopefully will have given Tuchel confidence to trust him more regularly next season.

I saw Souness' interview about him staying at Chelsea and I would agree. I think working alongside Jorginho daily and learning from him could be just as effective, if not more so, than playing week in week out. As long as he's playing games on a semi regular basis (given the likely number of games next season he could easily end up playing 20 - 25 games across all competitions as backup). For me, Jorginho is one of the best players around for that role in midfield and Gilmour currently is primed for the long term replacement for him, much like Foden was at City with David Silva. I'd worry if the loan doesn't work out like is hoped that could be lost.

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FFS, does the club always need to shoot itself in the foot after every successful season?

Sending out someone from the squad on loan, even before we've had a chance to have a preason game to evaluate. 

Also, where is the depth in Central midfield going to come from? We barely made it last season because only 1 of Kante, Jorginho and Kovacic were injured at a time. He would have got., and would absolutely be needed for rotation in games next season.

Also, I hate loans like these to tinpot teams.

Players like Gilmour thrive when surrounded by better players., allowing him to showcase his passing range and skill.

Call me cynical, but this has shades of McEachran all over.

The only hope is they don't stick him on the bench at Norwich, and actually make him start every game.

Hope this loan doesn't happen.

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4 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

FFS, does the club always need to shoot itself in the foot after every successful season?

Sending out someone from the squad on loan, even before we've had a chance to have a preason game to evaluate. 

Also, where is the depth in Central midfield going to come from? We barely made it last season because only 1 of Kante, Jorginho and Kovacic were injured at a time. He would have got., and would absolutely be needed for rotation in games next season.

Also, I hate loans like these to tinpot teams.

Players like Gilmour thrive when surrounded by better players., allowing him to showcase his passing range and skill.

Call me cynical, but this has shades of McEachran all over.

The only hope is they don't stick him on the bench at Norwich, and actually make him start every game.

Hope this loan doesn't happen.

I have read it is a very specific set of reasons (the tactics and formation plus guaranteed tonnes of minutes) that Tuchel wants him loaned to Norwich.

I am fine with that.

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4 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I have read it is a very specific set of reasons (the tactics and formation plus guaranteed tonnes of minutes) that Tuchel wants him loaned to Norwich.

I am fine with that.

Agreed. I said for months if Norwich or Southampton will take him fine but many managers should be blacklisted when it comes to loaning players of Gilmour's specific skillset as they wouldn't know what to do with him.

I really hope we have a recall clause just incase Norwich have a rough start and panic appoint one of the recycled old school managers, could you even imagine if he all of a sudden has to play half a season under Tony Pulis?

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Just now, Tomo said:

Agreed. I said for months if Norwich or Southampton will take him fine but many clubs should be blacklisted when it comes to loaning players of Gilmour's specific skillset.

Another thing is I really hope we have a recall clause just incase Norwich have a rough start and panic appoint one of the recycled old school managers, could you even imagine if he all of a sudden has to play half a season under Tony Pulis?

or Big Sam

😜

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6 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

It's looking like this Norwich move is on the cusp of being completed.

I'd much rather keep him here next season. Jorginho can't play every game, and we don't have another player in the squad besides Gilmour who plays his role in an effective manner. I think Gilmour had a couple of good performances at the end of the season when Tuchel needed to rotate the troops and hopefully will have given Tuchel confidence to trust him more regularly next season.

I saw Souness' interview about him staying at Chelsea and I would agree. I think working alongside Jorginho daily and learning from him could be just as effective, if not more so, than playing week in week out. As long as he's playing games on a semi regular basis (given the likely number of games next season he could easily end up playing 20 - 25 games across all competitions as backup). For me, Jorginho is one of the best players around for that role in midfield and Gilmour currently is primed for the long term replacement for him, much like Foden was at City with David Silva. I'd worry if the loan doesn't work out like is hoped that could be lost.

tbf he had the chance to train with jorginho for quite some time now. This is the moment he has to put this into practice. Not sure norwich is the right club but i dont mind billy getting a full pro season under his belt. we have to get him back if things go south up there tho.

Loaning him out surely also means that we sign a player like tchouameni who can effectively be a back up to jorginho. Would be madness to loan out billy and play the upcoming mammoth season with 3 cms again

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8 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

tbf he had the chance to train with jorginho for quite some time now. This is the moment he has to put this into practice. Not sure norwich is the right club but i dont mind billy getting a full pro season under his belt. we have to get him back if things go south up there tho.

Loaning him out surely also means that we sign a player like tchouameni who can effectively be a back up to jorginho. Would be madness to loan out billy and play the upcoming mammoth season with 3 cms again

Guessing Gilmour has been loaned to Norwich because of the Farke-Tuchel connection since they worked together at Dortmund.

Saw arguments saying that Gilmour should have been kept and go down the Foden route instead - e.g. train with better players daily and eventually work his way into the XI. 

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If he plays every week at Norwich and it works out, fair play. Still skeptical though, don’t think he isnt able to contribute here but it would depend on whether he gets the minutes or not. 

Farke has a good reputation developing youngsters, Max Aarons, Ben Godfrey, Todd Cantwell, Emiliano Buendia, Jamal Lewis, James Maddison have all played under him and done well so that obviously ties in as well as his relationship with Tuchel and his philosophy. 

Agree with Tomo though, if Norwich start poorly and end up appointing a Sam Allardyce or Tony Pulis or someone of that ilk, a recall clause will be handy.

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1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

If he plays every week at Norwich and it works out, fair play. Still skeptical though, don’t think he isnt able to contribute here but it would depend on whether he gets the minutes or not. 

Farke has a good reputation developing youngsters, Max Aarons, Ben Godfrey, Todd Cantwell, Emiliano Buendia, Jamal Lewis, James Maddison have all played under him and done well so that obviously ties in as well as his relationship with Tuchel and his philosophy. 

Agree with Tomo though, if Norwich start poorly and end up appointing a Sam Allardyce or Tony Pulis or someone of that ilk, a recall clause will be handy.

If they stuck with Farke last time they got relegated early, they hopefully will do so again. I am sure billy will make an impression even though we could have aimed higher for him. 

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3 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

If they stuck with Farke last time they got relegated early, they hopefully will do so again. I am sure billy will make an impression even though we could have aimed higher for him. 

What clubs would you suggest?

The tricky thing with loaning young players out is that if we go for the bigger clubs or clubs higher than Norwich for example, they might end up not using our player at all because they already have their established players there. Our player will then become just a backup for that club. I can't recall the names but there have been plenty of examples over the years. 

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Posted (edited)

Still don't like the idea of sending a player out on loan before even having a preseason.

We still have 2 first team midfielders playing in the Euros and we're hoping they come back fully fit.

I hope this also means: a. We are getting another midfield backup in the transfer window or b. Try to reintegrate one of RLC or Barkley into the squad again in a different formation.

With all the competitions we're in, rotating between Kovacic, Kante & Jorginho alone for CM won't be enough. Mount could be wasted playing in a double pivot.

Also, for Billy's sake I hope we have a clause that allows us to recall the player. Norwich could be in a relegation battle, so if they lose their manager or become desperate for points Billy could end up on the bench.

Still skeptical of the move, and hope if nothing else, he gets to start most games. 

When was the last time we've had a player who went out on loan to a PL side successfully reintegrate into the squad in the following season? RLC? McEachran was wasted, and Ampadu went no where. Ake at least wound up in Man City, so I guess there's some hope.

 

Edited by Blue Armour
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Norwich sign Gilmour on loan: Here’s what Chelsea midfielder could bring to Farke’s team

https://theathletic.com/2682007/2021/07/02/norwich-sign-gilmour-on-loan-heres-what-Chelsea-midfielder-could-bring-to-farkes-team/

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It was almost two weeks of speculation that fitting peaked with a leaked picture from the Colney training centre. Finally, on Friday, Chelsea and Norwich City’s agreement was finally confirmed: Billy Gilmour will play Premier League football next season at Carrow Road.

Chelsea have their goals for the 20-year-old Scotland international’s spell away: Gilmour will aim to get the playing time he believes his development needs and Norwich hope they have a player that increases their chances of avoiding another top-flight relegation.

As arrangements go, it’s hard to look beyond the feeling of a best-laid plan being given its best chance of success.

But what is Chelsea’s thinking behind allowing Gilmour to go and play elsewhere? And why choose Norwich? How will their head coach Daniel Farke utilise him? And what kind of player do Chelsea hope to get back in 12 months’ time?

Let The Athletic take you through the finer points as Gilmour is given a genuine chance to shine.


Why have Chelsea allowed Gilmour to leave on loan?

The decision is certainly not an indication that Chelsea head coach Thomas Tuchel doesn’t rate Gilmour.

Indeed, Tuchel has a real appreciation for Gilmour’s football intelligence and technical ability, working with him on an individual basis following his arrival in January. The pair watched videos together to help Gilmour understand what Tuchel wants from his central midfielders. The German also talked the young Scot out of leaving on loan in January, when he first succeeded Frank Lampard. He also understands Gilmour’s wish to get more playing time next season than he saw in 2020-21.

That is a reason why Tuchel has taken such an active interest in where Gilmour would ultimately be sent on loan. In no way has he been simply farmed out to the first club that showed an interest.

Wherever his eventual temporary destination proved to be, Chelsea, Tuchel and Gilmour all knew a season out on loan would mean a season of development and adaptation — to the physicality of regular Premier League football but also to a team who won’t enjoy 60 per cent possession most weeks the way Chelsea often do.

Gilmour is about to be tasked with a lot more work without the ball, in terms of pressing and tactical positioning, and both Chelsea and Tuchel see that as a chance for him to round out his game.

The bigger eyebrow-raiser is where he’s ended up being sent.


So, why has he gone to Norwich?

Chelsea certainly had options other than Carrow Road when it came to farming Gilmour out. Wolverhampton Wanderers were interested in borrowing him, especially following his impressive Euro 2020 showing for Scotland against England. Southampton have liked the midfielder for some time – as have Newcastle United, who were one of the clubs that would have gladly taken him on loan in January.

There was also the option of playing outside England including back home in Scotland with champions Rangers, although that was never likely to trump the priority of getting him Premier League experience.

Then there were promoted Norwich, who had plenty in their favour well before that goalless Group D draw at Wembley two weeks ago.

Firstly, Chelsea had already heard the Norwich loan pitch last summer, when they tried to borrow Ethan Ampadu. The defensive midfielder, who can also cover at centre-back, was eventually handed a Premier League season with Sheffield United rather than a Championship one in Norfolk, while Norwich opted to take Tottenham midfielder Oliver Skipp on a season’s loan – another live example of how Farke progresses young talent.

Norwich had everything agreed with Chelsea before Scotland played England, having answered the new European champions’ two key questions: will he play, and where will he play? Not that anything was completed or signed. Norwich’s early commitment to the loan move bought faith but didn’t dampen their nervousness that a Premier League club able to offer Gilmour European football next season and pay a bigger loan fee could gazump them.

Norwich also had their captain, Grant Hanley, in Scotland’s European Championship squad with Gilmour. Hanley’s club-mate and international colleague Kenny McLean, also had a way to the midfielder. Both made sure he knew the positives about joining them in Norfolk for next season.

Finally, there was Farke. It was a critical element that the Norwich head coach sees football in a similar way to countryman Tuchel; they experienced as much at close quarters during their time as Borussia Dortmund colleagues. Tuchel spent two years as the German club’s head coach from April 2015 and Farke was head coach of their under-23s side from November of that year until joining Norwich for the 2017-18 season.

The two men are not thought to be especially close away from football but within it, their beliefs are aligned. These include Farke playing with a “double six” in midfield, albeit in a 4-2-3-1 base formation rather than Tuchel’s preferred 3-4-2-1, and working within his tactical framework is viewed as the best possible preparation for Gilmour’s return to Stamford Bridge.

One way of evaluating the two clubs’ similarities is by looking at “direct speed”, which shows how fast a team typically advances the ball towards goal in metres per second. The higher the number, the quicker a team is willing to get the ball forward.

The speed of attacks can be considered alongside a more possession-based style of play. One way we can look at this is how many passes a team make in a single sequence of play (“passes per sequence”). Making more passes per sequence indicates a team who like to look after the ball for long periods, with a more patient build-up in their attacks.

Tuchel’s Chelsea were far less direct in their play from front to back than the teams they came up against, advancing the ball towards goal by 1.14 metres per second, on average. The only Premier League club less direct than them were Manchester City — a team and head coach in Pep Guardiola openly admired by Farke. Chelsea also enjoyed looking after the ball, with 4.8 passes per sequence highlighting their possession-based style under Tuchel.

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Norwich were slightly more direct than Chelsea under Tuchel last season, progressing the ball towards goal an average of 1.23 metres per second, but in the context of the Championship, you can see that their overall style was also to be possession-dominant and not particularly direct in their play.

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Of course, Norwich’s statistics will look different when trying to implement their latest evolution back in the Premier League but that emphasises exactly why they pushed so hard to recruit a player of Gilmour’s calibre, accepting that this signing also comes with a degree of inexperience.


How will he be used next season?

Gilmour spoke at length with Farke before finalising his move to Norwich, as what his role in the team would be was explained to him.

Norwich want to play different midfield set-ups next season, and to have a tactical flexibility that often isn’t necessary to win in the Championship. That will mean playing at times with two No 6s, in order to be more compact in front of their back line, but also playing with two No 8s and one holding midfielder when they look to carry more central dominance. Gilmour has experience in both roles.

While it is tempting to assume Gilmour is simply slotting into the hole left in the team by Skipp returning to Tottenham following the end of his hugely successful loan, the reality is different. Skipp’s return remains a possibility and Norwich see significant potential in a Gilmour-Skipp midfield partnership.

Much of that depends on whether Spurs – and their new head coach Nuno Espirito Santo – would sanction another season away for Skipp, which other Premier League clubs would like to take Gilmour’s fellow 20-year-old on loan and how his parent club view him spending a second year at Carrow Road.

Norwich don’t plan to just sit and wait on Tottenham making a decision. They are already actively working towards making a second midfield signing of this window and have not ruled out the possibility of a third, whether that is Skipp or someone else. Bournemouth’s Philip Billing remains another piece of recruitment Norwich would love to complete.

To bring us back to the Gilmour-Skipp comparison: Gilmour is tenacious, somebody who can leave his foot in and run all day while also possessing what Norwich see as world-class talent on the ball. Skipp is arguably the superior athlete of the two, and especially quick over his first 10 to 15 yards. He always looked able to carry out the No 6 role on his own in the Championship and had the athleticism to sort out any defensive issues.

Even if Norwich were signing Gilmour as a Championship club, they would not expect him to carry out the No 6 job on his own. It is assumed he will need help around him one rung higher in the Premier League, while Farke will be tasked with improving Gilmour’s reading of the game and positioning to add the knack for making interceptions to his ability off the ball.

On it, Gilmour fits into a clear vision for how Norwich hope to tackle the top flight more successfully than in their 2019-20 relegation campaign, which brought more defeats (27) than goals scored (26).

Norwich will be more compact, with more players behind the ball, than two seasons ago while not sacrificing their desire to dominate possession when they can. They began implementing that tactical framework while still in the Championship last season and it worked.

Alongside that, there will be a desire to get the ball forward slightly quicker and Gilmour is seen as a midfielder who can lead a game at Premier League level much more effectively than the midfield options Norwich had two seasons ago.

Moritz Leitner, released a year early from his contract earlier this week, was perhaps the closest Norwich had to someone capable of delivering those passes but often needed too much time to do so. Even Skipp last season was most effective when playing short, smart passes and linking play through and around the opposition’s forwards and attacking midfielders. If those passes were played forward, they would usually head towards the nearest fellow midfielder while his attempted through-balls were often cut out.

What Norwich are hoping to get from Gilmour is the ability to produce passes that hurt teams from a deeper position than their other players can, the vision to pick a genuine, progressive pass through the lines and beyond what Skipp managed for them last season.

Farke will hope that dovetails nicely with the potential movement delivered by another summer signing, forward Milot Rashica.

Chelsea are loaning Gilmour out partly because he hasn’t played a lot of senior minutes, which translates into little data on what he does and how well he does it.

For example, we can look at Gilmour’s smarterscout pizza chart — a tool based on advanced metrics that rates players from zero to 99 based on either how often they perform a specific action or how effective they are at it. Those ratings compare players to others in their position and use a benchmark level regardless of the league they play in; in this case, the Premier League.

Just 267 minutes of Premier League football last season is too small a sample to base any firm conclusions on but we can see his style is that he’s most likely to play short, sharp passes to a nearby team-mate (link-up play volume rating: 99 out of 99) and that he looks after possession well.

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We can look at Gilmour’s profile alongside that of Skipp, who is more likely to carry the ball forward given the touches he has (carry and dribble volume rating: 76 out of 99), but similarly looks after possession and offers little himself from an attacking perspective.

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Finally, we see a similar stylistic profile from veteran Norwich defensive midfielder Alex Tettey, who left the club this summer when his contract expired. The pattern emerging among all three? Look after the ball, and keep possession.

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For Tettey and Skipp, the proportion of passes they made that went forward was below the average for Championship midfielders. Despite Gilmour’s limited minutes, we see his comfort with playing shorter passes that may not often launch his team upfield, but can still advance them over shorter distances. The eye test backs up the feeling that the Scot keeps things neat and tidy rather than taking risks, but can execute incisive passes between the lines that could be important to finding team-mates in space.

There have also been examples of Gilmour’s vision on the pitch, such as spotting this run and trying to play in Kai Havertz against Arsenal at Stamford Bridge (the pass in this case was slightly overhit and well-defended).

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A similar chance was created for Tammy Abraham during Chelsea’s FA Cup fifth-round win at Barnsley, where the striker’s first touch meant the opportunity slipped away.

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Another example from that Arsenal game saw Gilmour pick out the run of left-back Ben Chilwell – an angle Farke will appreciate, given how high he likes Norwich’s full-backs to play and their expected level of attacking involvement. This move ended with Chelsea winning a corner.

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It was the right side that Gilmour fed in a 2019 UEFA Youth League defeat away to Valencia; his perfectly weighted ball in behind finding the run of Tariq Lamptey with precise vision and execution.

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And of course, there are the smart passes around corners that both Gilmour and Skipp so often prove adept at playing — in this example, once again with the progression of a full-back in mind.

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All of these are attributes Norwich will be hoping to see Gilmour display next season.

They will work him hard — the fitness regime under Farke and head of performance Chris Domogalla is widely regarded as gruelling — but Gilmour is ready for that and has always taken his physical preparation very seriously.

He was picked by Scotland to play in the Toulon Under-20s Tournament in 2018 as a 16-year-old. They finished third, and Gilmour was named “Revelation of the Tournament”. As a reward, he gave himself two days off, then enlisted a personal trainer to help him get into peak condition for the club season despite close-season downtime lasting just 48 hours.

When first breaking into Chelsea’s senior squad, Gilmour was known for regularly coming into their Cobham training ground on his days off, rather than going back to Scotland to be with his family, to put extra work into his skills and conditioning. His physical statistics in training and matches have always compared well with the club’s first-team regulars.

In fact, it may be Norwich’s primary task to ensure that personal drive to be in peak physical condition does not lead to Gilmour doing more than necessary and curtailing his availability through fatigue or injury.

Norwich’s aim to produce a team of sufficient Premier League quality will be balanced by having a relatively small, tight squad next season – and therefore the club’s support staff are under no illusions that they must keep their key players as fit and available as possible.


And what of the future?

Gilmour caught a lot of people’s imagination with that performance in the 0-0 Euros draw with England at Wembley. The size of the stage and the intensity of the spotlight clearly helped.

That his performance was followed by a positive COVID-19 test, a period of self-isolation and no chance of involvement in Scotland’s crucial final group game against Croatia was devastating for him.

Gilmour did not have any symptoms and was ultimately bored at home in London, waiting for the green light to return to the outside world – and ultimately, to join Norwich.

It is a backstory that is likely to make him even more excited to start pre-season, ahead of the promise of a genuine crack at the Premier League.

Gilmour’s current Chelsea contract is due to expire in June 2023 but the club have an option to extend it by a further year. There hasn’t been a conversation about a new deal as yet but the club still consider him a huge talent and a big part of their future plans.

In 12 months’ time, when Jorginho will be 30 and N’Golo Kante 31, both Chelsea and Norwich hope Gilmour will have produced a strong season at Carrow Road.

That could keep Norwich in the Premier League and put Gilmour in a great position to return to west London and fight for more regular minutes in a Chelsea shirt. 

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Posted (edited)

edit to add link

https://www.caughtoffside.com/2021/07/02/Chelsea-target-rice-sends-good-luck-message-to-blues-star/

 

Chelsea target Declan Rice has been spotted in the Instagram comments of Norwich City-bound Billy Gilmour – who he never played with during his time with the Blues.

Both Rice and Gilmour have come through Chelsea’s academies, but there’s no crossover in the timeline. Rice was released by the club in 2014, while Gilmour only arrived from Rangers three years later in 2017.

It’s hard to imagine how the pair could’ve developed a close relationship while never playing for the same side, and actually being under contract with two London rivals.

 

Edited by Vesper
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12 hours ago, Vesper said:

Chelsea target Declan Rice has been spotted in the Instagram comments of Norwich City-bound Billy Gilmour – who he never played with during his time with the Blues.

Both Rice and Gilmour have come through Chelsea’s academies, but there’s no crossover in the timeline. Rice was released by the club in 2014, while Gilmour only arrived from Rangers three years later in 2017.

It’s hard to imagine how the pair could’ve developed a close relationship while never playing for the same side, and actually being under contract with two London rivals.

 

 

Its not hard to imagine at all. They are both employees at the elite level in the same industry in the same city. Surely their circles are close enough to where they would have contact with each other fairly often.

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17 hours ago, Vesper said:

Chelsea target Declan Rice has been spotted in the Instagram comments of Norwich City-bound Billy Gilmour – who he never played with during his time with the Blues.

Both Rice and Gilmour have come through Chelsea’s academies, but there’s no crossover in the timeline. Rice was released by the club in 2014, while Gilmour only arrived from Rangers three years later in 2017.

It’s hard to imagine how the pair could’ve developed a close relationship while never playing for the same side, and actually being under contract with two London rivals.

 

I don't know whether to laugh or to cry at that. lol It's almost as if people can't possibly know other people through a mutual friend etc. I mean, it's not hard to think that Rice and Gilmour could have become friends through Mount (or Chilwell) when he's a close friend of those two. 

P.S. I know you quoted that from an article.

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