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8 hours ago, Vincent said:

Do we have a leader? A player that is proud to be a Chelsea player, and not just proud to be a player at a big club. A player that really feels connected to this club and wears our DNA. I am aware of the fact that these kind of players are rare, but these are the kind fo players we used to have. A leader like Terry of even Frank himself. These were the kind of players that would fight for our club and for the head of our managers. We don't have the type of players you'll win a war with, which we had with Drogba, Ballack, Carvalho, Ivanovic, Essien and many others. Not necessarily the best leaders, but players that would do anything in their power to win. I also believe the will and hunger to win is very contagious to the rest of the squad. In this squad i don't see a player that has such a big influence on the rest of the squad that i'm trying to sketch.

Probably Reece James. In the future. Touch wood.

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I can't actually believe how well coached we are. Puts it in further perspective when you see the garbage United and Arsenal are spewing. I love the fact Frank isn't so stubborn to try and do it

Very confused, can only assume the ones being somewhat negative did not watch the game? Aside from Dave and Zouma, I thought we played really well against the European Champions. I was shocked at time

Our pressing game was superb, and made all the difference today! 4-3-3 with Mount and Havertz to harass opponents and Kante to sweep up behind...that's the way to go. And we have two bombing

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2 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

Which brings us to that big question. Why is our press so shite in games? It works well in sports during games, and sometimes for a few games in a row.

Against City it worked for the first 10 mins. After that the players (esp. Mount who normally is relentless) just gave up.

Roy Keane also brought it up in the post match interview.

You would think that after 1.5 seasons, this is something that Lampard would've drilled into his side by now. Not sure what is going on in training.

Just throwing out a few reasons (could be any or combination of them):

1. Lampard over trains the players in training, especially during a free midweek, to the point where they are tired mentally and physically come matchday and they don't have the energy to press effectively (or even doing the other things effectively for that matter). I didn't notice it during the game but I heard someone mention it in a podcast that Kante already looked dead on his feet after 50 minutes or so against Man City, he was bending down with the hands already on his knees etc. OR players are already generally tired from the congested schedule anyway but Lampard still wants them to press. 

2. Lampard doesn't know how to coach a team on how to press as a unit. Could even include his coaching staff here.

3. Lampard doesn't understand the players' strengths and weaknesses as in who can press effectively and who can't press effectively, who has the energy to press and who doesn't have the energy to press.

4. Lampard is caught up with this idea that pressing equals exciting football, showing everyone else that the team want to play on the front foot etc (there's nothing exciting about it if we can't press effectively) and if we sit back and don't press, it equates to defensive football etc.

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2 hours ago, Jason said:

David Ornstein on Lampard's situation from 1:00 here...

 

He states he believe Lampard should get more time. 

Weather he gets that it's another story. 

But did mentioned how time is good for example with Arteta at Arsenal. And he has a point, Arsenal with Arteta was dried now they turned a corner. Same like with Ole at United.

I think this is the pool you have to take a look at when comparing Lampard. And if that's the case, then for me Lampard should continue. 

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37 minutes ago, Fernando said:

He states he believe Lampard should get more time. 

Weather he gets that it's another story. 

But did mentioned how time is good for example with Arteta at Arsenal. And he has a point, Arsenal with Arteta was dried now they turned a corner. Same like with Ole at United.

I think this is the pool you have to take a look at when comparing Lampard. And if that's the case, then for me Lampard should continue. 

FOR GOD'S SAKE! CAN WE STOP COMPARING LAMPARD'S SITUATION WITH OTHERS AND JUDGE HIM BASED ON THE WORK HE'S DOING!? :doh: 

Just because Solskjaer has turned things around now, it doesn't mean he's the right manager for the long term at Man United. For all we know, United could easily go through their up-and-down period soon again. As for Arteta, he didn't spend 200 million+ on players in the transfer market and Arsenal's expectations are completely different to our expectations. We have different standards than them. And just because they have turned things around, it doesn't mean Lampard will do so here. 

If people think Lampard deserves to stay, fine but give us good reasons why do you think he should stay. If the best answer people can come up with is by comparing him with other managers, then that says it all because that is dependent on blind hope and not actual confidence that he will turn things around. No one has been able to argue why Lampard deserves to stay by debating the concerns that fans have about him. People are just putting blind faith into him. 

And also, if people are gonna say Lampard will turn things around because Solskjaer did this and Arteta did that, then one could easily point out that Roman has sacked out of depth managers midway through a season in the past and those decisions have proven right based on how those managers' career went after that - Scolari, AVB, Di Matteo etc - and what we achieved subsequently.

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13 hours ago, bigbluewillie said:

Not only us bud Man U who? since Roy Kean, Shitty since Kolo Toure.

LiverVictim do have Henderson.

Us no one, maybe Billy if he can get a game other than that....no! you are correct we have no one.

Shitty had a great leader after Toure, in Kompany.

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9 hours ago, Jason said:

FOR GOD'S SAKE! CAN WE STOP COMPARING LAMPARD'S SITUATION WITH OTHERS AND JUDGE HIM BASED ON THE WORK HE'S DOING!? :doh: 

Just because Solskjaer has turned things around now, it doesn't mean he's the right manager for the long term at Man United. For all we know, United could easily go through their up-and-down period soon again. As for Arteta, he didn't spend 200 million+ on players in the transfer market and Arsenal's expectations are completely different to our expectations. We have different standards than them. And just because they have turned things around, it doesn't mean Lampard will do so here. 

If people think Lampard deserves to stay, fine but give us good reasons why do you think he should stay. If the best answer people can come up with is by comparing him with other managers, then that says it all because that is dependent on blind hope and not actual confidence that he will turn things around. No one has been able to argue why Lampard deserves to stay by debating the concerns that fans have about him. People are just putting blind faith into him. 

And also, if people are gonna say Lampard will turn things around because Solskjaer did this and Arteta did that, then one could easily point out that Roman has sacked out of depth managers midway through a season in the past and those decisions have proven right based on how those managers' career went after that - Scolari, AVB, Di Matteo etc - and what we achieved subsequently.

I think the only reason he should be given chances is because what he did last season, yes we should always look to the future but what have you done in the past will always carry some weight. 

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Just now, communicate said:

I think the only reason he should be given chances is because what he did last season, yes we should always look to the future but what have you done in the past will always carry some weight. 

It gives the manager some credit but it won't matter at all if the person is failing his job at the present time. Otherwise, we wouldn't have sacked Mourinho in 2015 when he was having us hovering above the relegation zone and would have kept him instead because of the success he brought to the club. But we didn't because he failed his job back then. It's the same elsewhere as well. 

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Just now, Jason said:

It gives the manager some credit but it won't matter at all if the person is failing his job at the present time. Otherwise, we wouldn't have sacked Mourinho in 2015 when he was having us hovering above the relegation zone and would have kept him instead because of the success he brought to the club. But we didn't because he failed his job back then. It's the same elsewhere as well. 

I vividly remembered with Mou case, Bruce Buck said something of if we were in midtable  we probably won't sack mou, but we were in relegation zone which was unacceptable. 

This season if we don't get top 4, Lamp probably will get sack in the end but I don't think we will sack him in season unless we are dropping into low table position because right now we are only 6 points away from top 4.

 

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15 minutes ago, communicate said:

I vividly remembered with Mou case, Bruce Buck said something of if we were in midtable  we probably won't sack mou, but we were in relegation zone which was unacceptable. 

This season if we don't get top 4, Lamp probably will get sack in the end but I don't think we will sack him in season unless we are dropping into low table position because right now we are only 6 points away from top 4.

Problem is if things don't improve soon, if we don't start picking up wins again and we fall further behind the Top 4, there's every chance that Roman will just sack Lampard. There's no way we should be struggling to finish in the Top 4 after having spent all that money in the summer and I don't think the club can afford us not finishing in the Top 4 from a financial perspective, especially during this pandemic. Lampard looks to be out of his depth at this moment and Roman has sacked such managers midway through a season before. If Lampard somehow survives more bad results in the upcoming games, then we're gonna need to go on a crazy winning run plus others to choke for us to finish in the Top 4.

Long story short, if Roman and the board are already unhappy with how things are going, what makes you think Roman won't pull the trigger now if things continue to go south? It's not like he doesn't have a history of doing so.

By the way, we are currently only 3 points from the Top 4 but Spurs, who are in 4th, have a game in hand while City, who are 5th, have two games in hand. As if they weren't enough of a worry, there are still Leicester, Southampton, Everton and Villa between us and the Top 4. 

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1 hour ago, Jason said:

Problem is if things don't improve soon, if we don't start picking up wins again and we fall further behind the Top 4, there's every chance that Roman will just sack Lampard. There's no way we should be struggling to finish in the Top 4 after having spent all that money in the summer and I don't think the club can afford us not finishing in the Top 4 from a financial perspective, especially during this pandemic. Lampard looks to be out of his depth at this moment and Roman has sacked such managers midway through a season before. If Lampard somehow survives more bad results in the upcoming games, then we're gonna need to go on a crazy winning run plus others to choke for us to finish in the Top 4.

Long story short, if Roman and the board are already unhappy with how things are going, what makes you think Roman won't pull the trigger now if things continue to go south? It's not like he doesn't have a history of doing so.

By the way, we are currently only 3 points from the Top 4 but Spurs, who are in 4th, have a game in hand while City, who are 5th, have two games in hand. As if they weren't enough of a worry, there are still Leicester, Southampton, Everton and Villa between us and the Top 4. 

We have to see how we play in the next couple of games I guess.

I honestly want Lamp to forget the name and the pricetag. We don't have untouchable in our team, no superstar. He need to decide what he want from each position and just play accordingly. No more can Werner play on the left or center, puli left or right, should cho play, bla2. Be ruthless, pool has 60 m role player in keita, ndombele barely played last season for Mou. 

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22 hours ago, bigbluewillie said:

Not only us bud Man U who? since Roy Kean, Shitty since Kolo Toure.

LiverVictim do have Henderson.

Us no one, maybe Billy if he can get a game other than that....no! you are correct we have no one.

 

Valid point, although i rather not look at clubs like Manchester United. If you look at the most succesful clubs in the last decade, they all had players that wore the identity of the club they were playing for. And as i said, not necessarily leaders, but players you think of when you think about a certain club in a certain period. If you look at clubs in their prime, they all had these kind of players, and it definitely doesn't have to be players that been at the club since they were young. It might help, but some players adapt easier, and have a different mentality than others.

 

Lahm, Ribery, Muller, Schweinsteiger, Robben, Neuer

Iniesta, Xavi, Puyol, Dani Alves, Messi, Villa, Pique

Cesar, Zanetti, Maicon, Sneijder, Cambiasso, Milito, Eto'o

Kroos, Marcelo, Ramos, Benzema, Ronaldo, Modric

 

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4 hours ago, communicate said:

We have to see how we play in the next couple of games I guess.

I honestly want Lamp to forget the name and the pricetag. We don't have untouchable in our team, no superstar. He need to decide what he want from each position and just play accordingly. No more can Werner play on the left or center, puli left or right, should cho play, bla2. Be ruthless, pool has 60 m role player in keita, ndombele barely played last season for Mou. 

Different situation. Keita has been injury prone ever since he joined from RB Leipzig while Ndombele had fitness issues when he went to Spurs. That's why the former hasn't been playing much while the latter wasn't playing much initially, even under Pochettino. 

Our main issue isn't even about the name or price tag of the players. It's the fact that Lampard has no idea what he wants to do, especially after having so many options all of a sudden. He has no real style of play, no identity and no clear tactical idea. That is why his selection has been all over the place and our performances have gone south over the last month or so. Moreover, some of the players you indirectly mentioned are his signings and given Roman paid a lot for them, then Lampard is trying to play them together.

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8 hours ago, Jason said:

Different situation. Keita has been injury prone ever since he joined from RB Leipzig while Ndombele had fitness issues when he went to Spurs. That's why the former hasn't been playing much while the latter wasn't playing much initially, even under Pochettino. 

Our main issue isn't even about the name or price tag of the players. It's the fact that Lampard has no idea what he wants to do, especially after having so many options all of a sudden. He has no real style of play, no identity and no clear tactical idea. That is why his selection has been all over the place and our performances have gone south over the last month or so. Moreover, some of the players you indirectly mentioned are his signings and given Roman paid a lot for them, then Lampard is trying to play them together.

I don't think injury is the problem with keita. Keita can do stuff that no one in pool midfield can do except thiago now but it is imperative for that midfield to press and win ball and he can't do that. 

Ndombele last year pretty much didn't cover enough ground to play for Mou. Mou pretty much criticized him publicly so many times.

 "Moreover, some of the players you indirectly mentioned are his signings and given Roman paid a lot for them, then Lampard is trying to play them together" 

This is a problem. We have played, i don't know over 20 games now, you know what you will get from each player till the end of the season, it is pretty clear. 

Right now lots of people is criticizing lamp for not utilizing his player properly especially Werner . IMO, what he is doing right now is forcing Werner Pulisic ziyech and Havertz to work. Will it eventually work? Maybe if they get better but right now it is clear how it is not working. Just pick combination that clearly works and bench the other, you can always rotate.

Btw before people will say with better manager it will work, hmm, take griezman, Atletico star man, France star man, a fantastic player but it was freaking obvious he won't work in Barca, two seasons, 3 different managers, still not working. 

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26 minutes ago, communicate said:

I don't injury is the problem with keita. Keita can do stuff that no one in pool midfield can do except thiago now but it is imperative for that midfield to defen and win ball and he can't do that. 

How do you expect someone to even do well when the player has been injured most of the time? Ever since Keita joined Liverpool in 2018/19, he's played only 71 games and a total of 3,772 minutes (for some context comparison, Pulisic has played 47 games for us and a total of 3,219 minutes since 2019/20 and we all know his hamstring problems). Keita has had muscular injuries, groin injury, groin strain, torn muscle bundle, COVID-19 etc. I've seen Liverpool fans complain more about his injuries than anything else and some have even said they should sell him off. 

26 minutes ago, communicate said:

Ndombele last year pretty much didn't cover enough ground to play for Mou. Mou pretty much criticized him publicly so many times.

Fitness was the main problem with Ndombele. Pochettino complained about it and the issue dragged to under Mourinho.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8689419/How-went-wrong-Tottenham-Tanguy-Ndombele-record-54m-signing.html

https://www.football.london/tottenham-hotspur-fc/players/tanguy-ndombele-fitness-mourinho-spurs-17791929

26 minutes ago, communicate said:

 "Moreover, some of the players you indirectly mentioned are his signings and given Roman paid a lot for them, then Lampard is trying to play them together" 

This is a problem. We have played, i don't know over 20 games now, you know what you will get from each player till the end of the season, it is pretty clear. 

Right now lots of people is criticizing lamp for not utilizing his player properly especially Werner . IMO, what he is doing right now is forcing Werner Pulisic ziyech and Havertz to work. Will it eventually work? Maybe if they get better but right now it is clear how it is not working. Just pick combination that clearly works and bench the other, you can always rotate.

Btw before people will say with better manager it will work, hmm, take griezman, a fantastic player but it was freaking obvious he won't work in Barca, two seasons, 3 different managers, still not working. 

Our situation is different to Barcelona. There, it's the board who buy the players and they just expect the manager to fit them in. Here, at least under Lampard, Werner, Ziyech, Havertz are all his signings. He wanted them and he got them. Regardless of whether you think it will work or not, one would expect Lampard to have a plan to fit those players, in addition to what he already had. But god knows what those plans are right now. Picking the combination that works like last season's combination is just postponing/procrastinating/delaying the problem over the personnel. Equally or more than it, the frustration is that after 18 months under Lampard, after spending over 200 million, our attacking play has come down to nothing more than spamming high crosses into the box. It's almost as if we're suddenly being managed by Sam Allardyce or Sean Dyche. 

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Welp...

New_signings.png

If one attacker does not adapt well, you could attribute it to differences between leagues, a shift in style and a lack of time. If two very different attackers flop, you could blame freakish bad luck. If three of them bomb, it becomes less luck and more of a system issue. Some of these numbers have not just declined, they have absolutely cratered even when accounting for the mitigating factors.

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2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Welp...

 

 

Also this...

At the same time, it is down to the manager to ensure that young players develop a mental edge, too. The influence of a manager on young, impressionable players cannot be understated. Lampard himself has spoken in depth about how Mourinho’s arrival in 2004 taught him to hate losing. It is no surprise that the introduction of a cut-throat winner turned Chelsea from a team that naively lost to Monaco into the most ruthless outfit on the planet within a year.

But then, we see things like Lampard being quiet and passive on the touchline when things aren't going well.

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13 hours ago, Jason said:

Welp...

 

New_signings.png

The drop off from all the new signings compared to when they were in their previous clubs is alarming. Lampard has to do something and fast. The quote below in bold is spot on.

If one attacker does not adapt well, you could attribute it to differences between leagues, a shift in style and a lack of time. If two very different attackers flop, you could blame freakish bad luck. If three of them bomb, it becomes less luck and more of a system issue. Some of these numbers have not just declined, they have absolutely cratered even when accounting for the mitigating factors.

xG_profile.jpg

And this is also a big worry. We are creating the same amount of chances as last season. The only difference was we were more clinical in the beginning of the season, but now it has balanced out. The fact we have not improved the amount of chances we create per match compared to last season is baffling. We're not improving. The quote below hits the nail on the head.

Alas, the improvement has not been as significant as expected. Chelsea were on an incredibly hot streak of finishing in the first few months of the season and some regression to the mean was always to be expected. However, the degree to which the team’s finishing has fallen is shocking. One would think this run of finishing will not last for long and the team will find the proverbial shooting boots soon.

Even before December, Chelsea created fewer chances than last season (excluding penalties). While game state has to be considered — for example, the team might have opted to ease off and not boost stats when 2-0 up thanks to a penalty and a corner — this is not a great look. For a squad of Chelsea’s age-profile, year-on-year improvement must be the first expectation.

The metrics showing that we are more or less the same as last season performance wise is not good. Hopefully it gets better.

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