Super Frank Thread

[Jase 43,479]

11 hours ago, communicate said:

Hmm so should we sell puli and ziyech then

Apart from Pulisic, all the other attacking players were bought by Lampard (Pulisic is now part of the plan anyway). Different circumstances have meant we have not been able to have Werner, Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz all available and fit at the same time but Lampard has gotta find a way of making this work since he got what he wanted. If not, questions will be asked, if not already.

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

The sober view imo is to see on the one hand that two loses to Everton and wolves isn't the end of the world. Everton we had no wingers against a back 5 that sat deep and have away an early sloppy goal. Quite a common type of defeat even for big teams. Wolves was poor game management. Of course, many players had poor performances too but that happens sometimes.

On the other hand, there's nothing from our previous good run that tells is much about how good we will be for the rest of the season. We beat cannon fodder. Leeds was the probably the best result and their style suits us down to the ground!

Now we have a run where we play the teams in the top half which should reveal how good we are. Defensive shit housery like against united and sevilla won't cut it. At least we had moments in the spurs game which was better. It would help if we had werner, kai, ziyech and pulisic all on the pitch at the same time. Then its all on frank.

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[NikkiCFC 7,580]

Just saw this and not surprised at all. In half PL games we did not create anything from open play. And midfield is our biggest problem which is surprising considering that common opinion is that Kova and Mount are great.

What do we expect from our number 8s? I think Kai is not for that role and it will not work.

We want to fight for title with this? We play the same formation as City but lets compare with them. They had David Silva and KDB for that role and they had 17 goals and 27 assists in 17/18 season when City won title with 100 points (Pep second season).

We have Kova who has one assist against SU, Kai one assist against WBA and Mount 2 corners. Also these 3 players scored just 2 goals. Huge difference.

I am still advocating that we need to move Ziyech to number 8 role. He played more games in his career as MF then RW. Pep did this with B. Silva as well?

Or change formation and play Kai as number 10 and wait for him.

 

[Tomo 21,681]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

What is the entire picture? Is this equivalent to "trust the process" I keep seeing with Ole and Arteta?

No one is saying blindly "trust the process", you should look at a few factors and then make your decision from there. For me I look at these things whenever a manager struggles initially to decide whether I back him or not.

1. Is the football sustainable? Yes and the underlying performance metrics back that up.

2. What are his team's selections like? In other words is he playing the players that are/have potential to be a part of our next title winning team and dropping the deadwood that forced us into a transition in the first place? Yes.

3. Recruitment, are most of the players brought in good signings that have improved us? Yes.

4. Is there season by season progression? Again yes, up on the same fixtures last season, improved performance in the CL group compared to last year and most importantly we look better at both ends.

I'll be the first to call him out if he stalls on as much as one of those things but in my opinion those are the four things to look at in the building phases and as of this minute he's passing all four (compared to Arteta who's failing on them all).

[killer1257 3,282]

 

 

 

Incorrect, we have less points right now than we did last season. Last season this time we had 26 points. We have 22 right now.

This CL group we had was way easier compared to last season's. Last season we had Ajax and Valencia. Last season was actually more impressive that we got out of that group.

 

 

Depends how you define improvement. Last season we were eleven points behind Liverpool at this stage, while we are now only 6 points behind Liverpool. In that sense, it is clearly an improvement/progression

 

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[NikkiCFC 7,580]

Last season he did not realize full season that Rudiger-Zouma is our best CB pairing. 4 or 5 games last season and this season Newcastle, Krasnodar and Sevilla. All clean sheets with them.

He needed 6 months to start playing Giroud over Michy. That was a joke. Michy is 3rd striker now even in Palace.

This season playing Mount as a winger and later Werner is in that category as well of unreasonable decisions. Remember when Puli was on the pitch playing on the right and Mount on the left?

We had winning run as much impressive if not even more last season in Sep-Oct.

As mentioned we have less points this season. I do not see that improvement. Even if you can find something it is because we have much better squad. Nothing to do with Frank.

Our defense is better? Hallo! Mendy, Silva, Chilwell. And new coach. 

Now when we played without wingers he did not change formation which would be worth praising and reasonable but he played Kai and Timo out of position. That costed us points.

His approach in games like UTD and Spurs was weird as well. It was like we are playing CL semi final first leg away...

He even admitted that we have individual quality upfront and we will score goals. That is his solution? Where is the system? 

You can already see Kai will never work as number 8 but he will continue will that. Or will realize after 6 months as usual...

I bet when he sent Barkley on loan he did not knew that just one month later he will change from 4231 to 433 which would open place for Ross. And lets be honest, he is better in the final 3rd then what we have.

This is just a small part of negativities I see.

I would be the first one to praise him when he impress but I do not see it. Even a little.

 

[Jase 43,479]

After 13 Premier League games:

2019/20:
W - 8
D - 2
L - 3
Pts - 26
Pos. - 4th

2020/21:
W - 6
D - 4
L - 3
Pts - 22
Pos. - 7th

[Jap Si. 50]

On 16/12/2020 at 2:16 PM, Puliiszola said:

Spoken like a true plastic.

I'm not understanding please explaining.

[Vesper 27,310]

On 16/12/2020 at 1:05 AM, Jap Si. said:

On forum I am seeing the word bollocks please explaining meaning.

bollocks means tosh, bullshit, like something that is rubbish, nonsense

it literally means balls, nuts, ie. testicles

also, you can use it another way by adding dog's

'My new flat is the dog's bollocks'

meaning it is really posh, nice, great, the best

there are ales and beers named after that saying, for instance

[Vesper 27,310]

34 minutes ago, Jap Si. said:

I'm not understanding please explaining.

the troll is calling you a fake Chels fan

The worst insult in football: ‘plastic’

Abusing the other team’s fans for being fake is fun. But the demand for football authenticity is a mug’s game.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2013/05/30/the-worst-insult-in-football-plastic/

 

[Blue Armour 4,164]

5 hours ago, Mana said:

I'm looking at Chelsea's personal performance, not what's happening elsewhere around the table.

Looking at US vs. US last season, we have gone backwards in the table. With a much better squad. "But it takes time to build", wasn't that the same excuse for last season with the kids?

Then you should wait at least till we hit the midway point in the season.

Do a more apples to apples comparison then. Not now.

[Blue Armour 4,164]

20 hours ago, Vesper said:

Havertz and Werner might need Chelsea formation change to bring best out of them

https://theathletic.com/2264487/2020/12/16/werner-havertz-formation-chelsea/

This season, it seems, is not going to be kind to the teams with designs to be considered Premier League contenders.

Earlier this month, when they swept aside Leeds United at Stamford Bridge with a display of high-tempo ruthlessness, Chelsea had the look of a side who had found themselves heading into the festive fixture crunch in good shape. Eleven days and back-to-back defeats against Everton and Wolves later, it’s once again reasonable to question the on-pitch identity they had built with such style.

Frank Lampard was in no mood for such introspection in the immediate aftermath at Molineux. For him, this was simply a case of poor game management. “The threat from Wolves is clearly the counter-attack and it is a major threat from what they have got,” he said. “It is the main one because they have speed and quality in forward areas. The players knew it before the game, the players knew it in (the) game but we allowed some counter-attacks. If you are going to allow a team to play to their strengths then you may lose.”

Nothing he said left the impression there could be a departure from the 4-3-3 system that has underpinned Chelsea’s rise in recent weeks, even as Everton and then Wolves’ defensive success left many querying whether the formation is viable with the squad’s wing depth so depleted. The bigger headache for Lampard, however, will probably come when he ponders whether or not the tactical framework he has chosen can maximise either of his two marquee summer signings.

Timo Werner — operating from the right and later from the left of the front three at Molineux — had three shot attempts against Wolves, none on target and none particularly memorable. He has now failed to score in his last eight Chelsea appearances across all competitions and while that time span includes some freakish misses, three of his lowest expected goals (xG) ratings of the Premier League season have come in his last four games. Wolves largely kept him out wide, where his sloppy passing often made him more of a hindrance than a help.

Werner’s touch map vs Wolves

Kai Havertz, meanwhile, was replaced by Mateo Kovacic in the 71st minute after producing his most anonymous performance of the season. Deployed as a No 8 on the right of the midfield three, he touched the ball fewer times (47) than any outfield Chelsea starter other than Werner and Olivier Giroud, had no shots and played no key passes. The vast majority of the passes he completed were safe options, either sideways or backwards, offering little to the team’s more progressive passages of play.

Havertz pass map vs Wolves

When it comes to Havertz there is no shortage of reasonable mitigation. He contracted COVID-19 in November and was bed-ridden with significant symptoms for more than a week. As well as depriving him of training time, the illness also further slowed an already tricky adaptation process to a new style of football with a new team in a new league. Having played for spells as a No 8, a No 10, a winger and a false nine in four years at Bayer Leverkusen, he has been deployed in all four positions in his first four months at Chelsea. He is also 21.

Havertz revealed during his unveiling press conference in September that he considers himself primarily as a No 10. Werner, meanwhile, reached a new level of attacking threat at RB Leipzig last season when coach Julian Nagelsmann slotted him into a bespoke tactical role, somewhere in between an on-the-shoulder striker and a left winger, with either Yussuf Poulsen or Patrick Schick acting as the muscular attacking focal point.

The one thing that Havertz and Werner’s ideal roles have in common is that neither exist in Lampard’s 4-3-3.

It won’t always matter. As recent weeks have shown, Werner is more than capable of carrying a constant threat on the left of a front three, provided that he is allowed to do most of his running into the box without the ball rather than with it. While he can be a devastating ball-carrier in transition situations — as Newcastle and Leeds both found out to their cost — he lacks the skill of an elite winger to consistently dribble past his marker, and his touch is too inconsistent to be heavily involved in possession play.

On his better days, Havertz has also shown signs of growing into the No 8 role, finding pockets of space to receive the ball on the half-turn, moving it on intelligently and arriving late in the box to connect with crosses. The slick sequence of play which led to Giroud’s equaliser against Leeds exhibited all of these qualities.

Hakim Ziyech’s return from a hamstring injury will help both. The man Ajax fans dubbed “The Wizard of Amsterdam” has been exactly as advertised so far in England, establishing himself as the creative hub of this Chelsea team from the moment he came into the starting XI. Werner can connect with his devilish in-swinging crosses as Quincy Promes once did, and the defensive attention the Morocco international attracts can free up Havertz to express himself fully.

But until then, Lampard might need to lean on the tactical flexibility he showcased at key moments of last season. The 4-3-3 is only as effective as the balance of personnel within it; Chelsea’s dearth of fit wingers right now might have made a return to 3-4-2-1 more logical against Wolves. Another option — one that requires less disruption to the team’s defensive and midfield balance — would be a 4-4-2 diamond, with Havertz operating at the tip and Werner up front alongside either Giroud or Abraham:

That particular tactical scenario would penalise Christian Pulisic, Chelsea’s most dazzling attacker for long stretches of last season and a man Lampard really needs to find momentum for after a frustrating stretch of hamstring trouble. But any option the manager chooses will carry a significant selection cost in a squad blessed with as diverse an array of attacking talent as this one.

Chelsea’s on-pitch identity will probably continue to shift with the tides of form and fitness, along with the unpredictable storms in this most volatile of seasons. Lampard will need Werner and Havertz to help him chart a course through it all.

Great read, and I think @MoroccanBlue and myself called it before the Wolves game. 

Playing a formation with a 3 at the back formation allows for Werner and Havertz/Pulisic play more centrally and closer to Giroud and rely on Chillwell/James for width instead.

If Ziyech & CHO aren't back for next week, I would like for us to try it.

Lampard keeps saying that he would not like to stick to just one type of formation. He needs to be more proactive and practice what he says, and not just change things after a poor run of results.

[Vesper 27,310]

6 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Great read, and I think @MoroccanBlue and myself called it before the Wolves game. 

Playing a formation with a 3 at the back formation allows for Werner and Havertz/Pulisic play more centrally and closer to Giroud and rely on Chillwell/James for width instead.

If Ziyech & CHO aren't back for next week, I would like for us to try it.

Lampard keeps saying that he would not like to stick to just one type of formation. He needs to be more proactive and practice what he says, and not just change things after a poor run of results.

4  3 1 2 (also could be a 4 4 2 diamond)

[Puliiszola 519]

4 hours ago, Vesper said:

the troll is calling you a fake Chels fan

The worst insult in football: ‘plastic’

Abusing the other team’s fans for being fake is fun. But the demand for football authenticity is a mug’s game.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2013/05/30/the-worst-insult-in-football-plastic/

 

You have a problem with me, speak to me

GO and do your fucking research. I did not call HIM, a plastic. I called another dude, who said that even if we win our next 5 games, he still would not support FL. So dont put your nose where it does not belong. Keep to posting meaningless height analysis.

[Jap Si. 50]

5 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

You have a problem with me, speak to me

GO and do your fucking research. I did not call HIM, a plastic. I called another dude, who said that even if we win our next 5 games, he still would not support FL. So dont put your nose where it does not belong. Keep to posting meaningless height analysis.

Vesper is nice person this is rudeness I am not liking this.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Is it fucking necessary to diss eachother over whether FL is in or out? Its just a bloody game, a bent one at that.

[Jase 43,479]

23 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

Is it fucking necessary to diss eachother over whether FL is in or out? Its just a bloody game, a bent one at that.

Over the last few years, I some times wonder why I even torture myself by watching football and that's not because of the controversies either. 

[Jase 43,479]

10 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

Great read, and I think @MoroccanBlue and myself called it before the Wolves game. 

Playing a formation with a 3 at the back formation allows for Werner and Havertz/Pulisic play more centrally and closer to Giroud and rely on Chillwell/James for width instead.

If Ziyech & CHO aren't back for next week, I would like for us to try it.

Lampard keeps saying that he would not like to stick to just one type of formation. He needs to be more proactive and practice what he says, and not just change things after a poor run of results.

Admittedly, Lampard did go to the extreme last season by changing formation almost every game but it's just kinda bizarre that he has gone from that to not even changing it at all this season. I understand the need to have some sort of consistency but then we have games like the one at Everton where we had no wingers and Lampard decided to put square pegs in round hole instead.