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9 hours ago, bigbluewillie said:

Something i've never thought of Lamps team identity and I have to agree when I think about it there isn't one.

I'm Lamps greatest luvvie, but now with the current situation i'm now 50/50 on his staying or getting sacked, my heart say's I want him to stay and turn things around, my head tells me this can't carry onlike this for much longer, he has to get this defensive sitation sorted out like post haste at least.

My love of Lampard as a player I now realise is overshadowing my opinion of him as a manager, how long do I give him? some say til November others say December, me I really hope he can turn things around and at the moment am prepared to give him the rest of the season to get at least some advancement but seeing how things go my opinion can change, then if that does happen then he has to win the EPL next season.

I have to admit sometimes when I see him on the touch line and things are going wrong he does appear to be forlorn expression, but I still think he has the tools to make things right....I really hope so.

KTBFFH

It is a tough place to be. As many of us are/have been. You want these guys to be successful. Ex players as managers, regardless of your team or even if you have no interest in the PL you'd want to see Lampard doing well here or OGS doing well at United or in Serie A, Conte/Pirlo doing well with Juventus or Neil Lennon doing well at Celtic or whatever. Just because these guys have player legacies and you think doing bad doesn't just tarnish their managerial reputation but potentially their player legacies in a way (not directly but it probably does a wee bit) or you think it will, which is why you want them to do well because you go it would be a shame if that tainted fans opinions on him a bit. You are right though, a players career shouldn't be used to give them a bit of leeway as a manager but the romanticism to a degree, maybe sentimental side of it is a better term, especially with someone like Frank as it would be with JT or Petr or Didier or Ashley Cole, you want to lean that way more and more and give them the benefit of the doubt. But then you have to consider Villas-Boas was shot off after 9 months, Scolari after however long, Carlo sacked after finishing 2nd. Jose a year after winning a title. Conte after finishing 5th and winning a trophy. Sarri basically may as well have been after finishing 3rd and winning the Europa League. These are guys who had varied levels of success at other clubs and had good reputations also so it kind of takes you back down a bit. 

I think now a days in management at top clubs, 18 months minimum is the sort of time you should be giving these guys before judging them (that's 3 transfer windows realistically). I said last season that Frank had to get things sorted because he won't get too long if the teams still struggling with the basics because people expect teams to be able to defend in general be it free kicks, set pieces or from open play and be tough to play against because people would say that these are the basics in football. I mean if Burnley or someone like that who spend 150-200m less each summer window can do that with what you'd say are poorer/less innovative coaches, why can Chelsea not? How many times have we heard Roy Keane say about teams failing to do the basics? Or Jamie Carragher or Gary Neville? Not necessarily just us but other teams Even things like individuals closing the ball down a meter away from them as well as other things as a collective such as defending corners/freekicks and whatever else. I really don't think you have to be a coaching genius to make your team be hard to beat, I think you obviously get players who aren't in the same mould as the guys we had 10-15 years ago but I don't think its neccessarily something that you only need specific players for. 

I think if come December, things don't look good, the pressure will ramp up (although you can see there is more and more people in the media kind of asking the question how can Chelsea still be making the same mistakes they did last season).

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I can't actually believe how well coached we are. Puts it in further perspective when you see the garbage United and Arsenal are spewing. I love the fact Frank isn't so stubborn to try and do it

Very confused, can only assume the ones being somewhat negative did not watch the game? Aside from Dave and Zouma, I thought we played really well against the European Champions. I was shocked at time

Our pressing game was superb, and made all the difference today! 4-3-3 with Mount and Havertz to harass opponents and Kante to sweep up behind...that's the way to go. And we have two bombing

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5 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

It is a tough place to be. As many of us are/have been. You want these guys to be successful. Ex players as managers, regardless of your team or even if you have no interest in the PL you'd want to see Lampard doing well here or OGS doing well at United or in Serie A Pirlo doing well with Juventus or Neil Lennon doing well at Celtic or whatever. Just because these guys have player legacies and you think doing bad doesn't just tarnish their managerial reputation but potentially their player legacies in a way (not directly but it probably does a wee bit).

I think now a days in management at top clubs, 18 months minimum is the sort of time you should be giving these guys before judging them (that's 3 transfer windows realistically). I said last season that Frank had to get things sorted because he won't get too long if the teams still struggling with the basics because people expect teams to be able to defend in general be it free kicks, set pieces or from open play and be tough to play against because people would say that these are the basics in football. I mean if Burnley or someone like that who spend 150-200m less each summer window can do that with what you'd say are poorer coaches, why can Chelsea not? How many times have we heard Roy Keane say about teams failing to do the basics? Not necessarily us but others. Even things like individuals closing the ball down a meter away from them as well as other things such as defending corners/freekicks and whatever else. I don't think you have to be a coaching genius to make your team be hard to beat. I think if come December, things don't look good, the pressure will ramp up (although you can see there is more and more people in the media kind of asking the question how can Chelsea still be making the same mistakes they did last season).

He is already under pressure imo, but you cant cut him off now, december will be a fair time to judge whether we are going forward or bust. Lets get the win today and build some steam.

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Just now, Atomiswave said:

He is already under pressure imo, but you cant cut him off now, december will be a fair time to judge whether we are going forward or bust. Lets get the win today and build some steam.

I think he bought himself some time after the first 6 months of last season. Before the dip. I really do. And getting the chance to buy players this summer has obviously helped him to the point where he has put his own stamp on the squad a bit but as you've said we need to see where we are at in December. I don't think 18 months is unfair and most clubs now a days probably give that as a minimum time before changing unless its something drastically bad. 8 points in 5 games isn't good enough though and a win today regardless of it being United, is a must imo. 

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3 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

I think he bought himself some time after the first 6 months of last season. Before the dip. I really do. And getting the chance to buy players this summer has obviously helped him to the point where he has put his own stamp on the squad a bit but as you've said we need to see where we are at in December. I don't think 18 months is unfair and most clubs now a days probably give that as a minimum time before changing unless its something drastically bad. 8 points in 5 games isn't good enough though and a win today regardless of it being United, is a must imo. 

Most def Mo, 18months is more than fair. Yup we have already blown pts that we really shouldnt but it is what it is, we need the win today, would set us well for games ahead....we need that winning menatlity up and running.

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Lampard is not looking at building a new team here, its clear he is just looking at results. It just nullifies the reason why you would give Lampard the job in the first place. Tony Pullis could be the coach If you are looking after clean sheets.

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Like I said in the game thread, lets cut the bullshit and get rid of him now whilst the season is young, we all know it will happen at some point during the season so why prolong the inevitable, rather have the new manager come in early and implement his style, who knows we might even win the league with how shit City and Pool look like. 

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4 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

If Mou or Conte did those tactics people would say it was a masterclass.

 

Lampard was unlucky not to be awarded a, penalty

 

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No such thing as luck involved mate, it was by design. You reverse that picture and instant pen to mancs.

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10 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

If Mou or Conte did those tactics people would say it was a masterclass.

Lampard was unlucky not to be awarded a, penalty

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Let's not rewrite history here, go through the old threads and you will definitely see people complained about Mourinho's and Conte's ultra defensive approach in these big games. For example, let's not forget Mourinho decided to start parking the buss in the second half of the 2014/15 season while Conte once had the team go walkabout at Man City! There were also countless of away matches where Mourinho set up to play for a point and people complained because we could have done more.

It's all fine if Lampard wants to play this boring defensive football but just like Mourinho and Conte before him, he then needs to justify it with results. Otherwise, what's the difference between him and those ex-managers of ours? 

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Assuming we played defensively in the last 2 games because they were against Sevilla and Man United, then there's no excuse not to be more offensive in the next 6 games before facing another big side (Spurs)...

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