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5. Jorginho


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14 hours ago, Tomo said:

I think the main frustration with those two is they should have been squad players.

When Willian was finally made back up to Pedro I think a lot of the "abuse" went away.

Except for the whole Conte emoji¬†thing after the FA cup then it came flooding back ūüėā

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Part of me desperately want to see the people suffer a meltdown over Jorginho had he gone to Man City and done well under Guardiola. Those same fellas who are criticizing now would be the same ones ba

I'm fuckin ashamed at peeps booing Jorgi. Call themselves supporters. Why the fuck does he get singled out when all the other cunts play shit useless too? Such selective memories of some! I'm gon

He’s made the most forward passes in the PL so this is rubbish. Open up your mind, expand your football knowledge. Learn the regista role and what it’s meant to do, it’s function in a team. 

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12 hours ago, Tomo said:

I never said he was but put it this way, does he start for the back to back title teams or the double winning side? or even this current one?

The back-to-back title winning team? No.

The double winning side or current side? Debatable.

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1 hour ago, Jas said:

The back-to-back title winning team? No.

The double winning side or current side? Debatable.

I think prime Alex would be ahead of him and in this current system Rudiger suits it a lot better.

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29 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I think prime Alex would be ahead of him and in this current system Rudiger suits it a lot better.

The 2009/10 team wasn't exactly defensively solid and Alex spent half of that season being injured - https://www.transfermarkt.com/alex/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/15420/plus/0?saison=2009&verein=&liga=&wettbewerb=&pos=&trainer_id=.

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Cahill was much better than Alex; I think with GC it is a personality thing, he will not be a beloved figure despite his performances and accomplishment at the club.

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1 hour ago, Clockwork said:

Cahill was much better than Alex; I think with GC it is a personality thing, he will not be a beloved figure despite his performances and accomplishment at the club.

Yep.

Laughable there are people who questioned him actually as a player. And what hes achieved. Also people, and a lot of people, questioned him as captain also. Crazy. 

I think under Mourinho in 2013/14 and 14/15 he was as good as anybody in the PL bar a few exceptional players in the position. Also under Conte again in the 16/17 season he was exceptional as a LCB. Obviously he was getting on but you cannot take away why he did. Even in the CL run and final in 2012, people don’t forget how bad he had started when he played against Napoli. 

People always say Azpi was a bargain at 7m, which he was but Cahill was also 7m. Credit to Andre Villas-Boas as well who had bombed Alex out of the squad and wanted the club to get Cahill.

Edited by OneMoSalah
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His agent really likes to speak: 
 

‚ÄúJorginho is very well, he has won the Europa League and the Champions League and now the goal is to win the European Championships. [...] He is focused on this and wants to play all the remaining 7 games of the European Championship.‚ÄĚ

‚ÄúObviously he won the Champions League and therefore there are inquiries from the main teams in Europe but in my opinion he will stay at Chelsea next year because the next goal is to make the World Cup in Qatar with Italy. And by staying at Chelsea he has great chances to do so.‚ÄĚ

-Joao Santos; source: Radio Marte via Gonfialarete and Google Translate

 

Anyway if Italy wins EURO plus Jorgi won CL while being best goalscorer in the league for us I think he will be on those lists top10 or top20 players for this year.

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6 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Yep.

Laughable there are people who questioned him actually as a player. And what hes achieved. Also people, and a lot of people, questioned him as captain also. Crazy. 

I think under Mourinho in 2013/14 and 14/15 he was as good as anybody in the PL bar a few exceptional players in the position. Also under Conte again in the 16/17 season he was exceptional as a LCB. Obviously he was getting on but you cannot take away why he did. Even in the CL run and final in 2012, people don’t forget how bad he had started when he played against Napoli. 

People always say Azpi was a bargain at 7m, which he was but Cahill was also 7m. Credit to Andre Villas-Boas as well who had bombed Alex out of the squad and wanted the club to get Cahill.

This is exactly what I mean, apparently if you don't think he was world class you are "questioning him as a player".

Why can't there ever be middle ground?

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2 hours ago, Tomo said:

This is exactly what I mean, apparently if you don't think he was world class you are "questioning him as a player".

Why can't there ever be middle ground?

The comment wasn’t anything to do with the Alex comparison but the fact that Gaz probably doesn’t/didn’t get the respect he deserves due to his personality maybe or some other reason from certain fans. I remember on here folk were questioning him as the captain on here at one point as if it was undeserved that he has made it there or whatever and I tend to remember someone saying he was one of the worst PL captains at that time which was ridiculous.

There was¬†obviously¬†questioning his performances or level¬†rationally,¬†if he had a bad¬†game for instance or if he dropped his level. Like during¬†‚Äėthe¬†Mourinho season‚Äô¬†as Conte called¬†it,¬†as well as¬†the second season with Conte but there was also¬†the extreme where people continuously had doubts about him when he was playing well, particularly¬†with Di Matteo, Benitez,¬†Jose¬†and the first season with Conte. Was always the tactics, the partners, the system or we need to always¬†replace him or¬†whatever when I think some maybe didn‚Äôt¬†see he was a v good player for a period.

For about 3 and a half or 4 seasons out of his 7 here, he was pretty much always amongst the top performing CBs. Got 3 PFA TOTY awards also for 13/14, 14/15 and 16/17 here too.

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For years I am reading how he is defensively liability yet he is major part of a team and NT with best defense in the world.

 

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17 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

For years I am reading how he is defensively liability yet he is major part of a team and NT with best defense in the world.

 

The problem is when teams run at him as he cannot deal with it. This is something that is easily mocked as it can be gif-tastic. 

Personally, I quite like Jorgi, but there are definitely some games where it would be a better idea to play a more athletic player instead. 

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37 minutes ago, King Kante said:

The problem is when teams run at him as he cannot deal with it. This is something that is easily mocked as it can be gif-tastic. 

Personally, I quite like Jorgi, but there are definitely some games where it would be a better idea to play a more athletic player instead. 

Athleticism is pointless though in midfield if you¬†can‚Äôt read the game though or aren‚Äôt¬†discplined, look at Pogba at¬†United and even Ramires for a while here he needed to add that after his half a season with Villas-Boas where he and well probably¬†half the team needed it ūüėā

Thats unfortunately an issue with midfielders now a days, there are a lot of players who are either athletic but they are more often not tactically good enough or are good on the ball but maybe not as athletic or physically strong. Its hard to find these very complete midfielders and when you do they cost a huge premium/everyone wants them.

These guys now more often than not robots, playing 5-10 yard passes side to side and not really taking decisions for themselves, coaches coaching them perhaps but because their 6 ft 2, built like brick shithouses, can cover 13 or 24 km every week and win a few tackles and headers, people overlook the other bits.

I mean the likes of Yaya Toure’s, Lampards, Gerrards, Scholes, Keanes, Vieras etc are done for they are so few and far between guys who can do everything and have everything.

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7 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Athleticism is pointless though in midfield if you can’t read the game though or aren’t discplined, look at Pogba at United and even Ramires for a while here he needed to add that after his half a season with Villas-Boas where he half the team needed it.

Thats unfortunately an issue with midfielders now a days, there are a handful of players who are athletic but they are more often not tactically good enough. Then you’ve got the other aspect in possession of the ball. Its hard to find these very complete midfielders and when you do they cost a huge premium. 

For sure. For us we need someone like Jorgi 80-90% of the time, it is the 20-10% of the time we/he has an issue and that is primarily due to the nature of the PL. 

Other than athleticism the only other issue we have with CM is goals and assists. 

As I said, I like Jorgi, and I rate all of our CM's. Our problem is more they're all to similar which is why I want Billy to go out on loan and get his minutes and then we bring him back in 12-24 months to replace one of Jorgi/Kova as I am not sure we need all three. Kante is obviously one of a kind so not expecting him to be directly replaced. 

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On 18/06/2021 at 02:13, NikkiCFC said:

Anyway if Italy wins EURO plus Jorgi won CL while being best goalscorer in the league for us I think he will be on those lists top10 or top20 players for this year.

 

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14 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

As much as I rate Jorginho, there is only one MF who should be there in the top 3 in all reality and his name is Ngolo Kante!

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14 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

I don't think him having scored 6 penalties does in any case support this laughable claim for him to win Ballon d'Or. It is more testamenent to our forwards' incapability. Also Jorginho also missed 2 which makes it quite an average pen record for the season.

Anyone who really thinks there is a chance Jorginho wins this needs to get their head checked.

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Chelsea star makes Ballon d'Or admission after starring at Euro 2020

The Italian midfielder has established himself as a key player for club and country in 2021

https://www.football.london/Chelsea-fc/news/Chelsea-ballon-dor-euro-2020-20938784

Jorginho has been in impressive form for Italy at Euro 2020. (Image: Shaun Botterill - UEFA/UEFA via Getty Images).

Jorginho insists he doesn't think about winning the Ballon d'Or despite lifting the Champions League with Chelsea and starring for Italy at this summer's European Championships.

At the turn of the year, the 29-year-old's future at Stamford Bridge was uncertain. Jorginho wasn't a guaranteed starter under Frank Lampard, who favoured a 4-3-3 system with N'Golo Kante as the deepest of the three midfielders.

The arrival of Thomas Tuchel instantly transformed the Italian's campaign, however. Jorginho went from the substitutes' bench to the starting XI and established himself as a key figure in the German's 3-4-2-1 formation.

Where he really stood out was the Champions League. Throughout the knockout rounds, Jorginho produced composed and tenacious performances alongside the indefatigable Kante and Mateo Kovacic.

"Jorgi is a bit more the strategic guy who helps us in the build-up and he makes good decisions and helps us to escape the pressure," Tuchel said in April after the former Napoli midfielder had shone against Porto.

There's little doubt that Jorginho produced the best football of his career for Chelsea during the second half of last season. Even his detractors, of which there remain many, accepted he played a key role in helping the Blues finish in the top four and winning the Champions League in Porto last month.

He has taken his fine form into the European Championships with Italy, who have reached the quarter-finals of the competition with relative ease having finished top of their group with nine points and overcoming a stubborn Austria side in extra time at Wembley.

There is the genuine possibility that Jorginho ends the summer as a European champion at both club and international level. And that success would certainly put him in the conversation for the 2021 Ballon d'Or, the award given to the standout player of the year.

Yet Jorginho ‚Äď who has just two years remaining on his Chelsea contract ‚Äď says he is not motivated by the potential of individual glory. Instead, he is focused on celebrating any success with his teammates.

“I don’t think about it," he said during a press conference at Italy's training base, Coverciano. "Everything that is happening is the consequence of hard work.

"My priority is the group and celebrating together with my teammates and friends. This is more beautiful than celebrating alone."

While Jorginho was keen to play down his chances of clinching the Ballon d'Or ‚Äď which has been dominated by both Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo over the last 15 years ‚Äď his Italian teammate, Lorenzo Insigne, wasn't as bashful.

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I think the criticism is over the top, but at the same time, I do feel for him sometimes when no one ahead of him makes any kind of run or movement worth of anything but a side pass. I'll be interested to see what formation we settle on next season, as to what midfield we should be running with ie. if we go to a back four or stick with a three.

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3 hours ago, DH1988 said:

I think the criticism is over the top, but at the same time, I do feel for him sometimes when no one ahead of him makes any kind of run or movement worth of anything but a side pass. I'll be interested to see what formation we settle on next season, as to what midfield we should be running with ie. if we go to a back four or stick with a three.

It'll be a 3. 

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