5. Jorginho

[Special Juan 25,997]

He's regressed, and we need to sell.

[OneMoSalah 7,307]

15 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

He's regressed, and we need to sell.

Maybe he wasnt great or hasnt been in games since the restart but I think it is a similar situation to that period under Sarri during the winter. Everything was so slow today infront of him and there wasnt any real clever movement from the attacking players or Ruben/Ross when he came on (although he did grt a bit higher up more frequently than Ruben) to get in behind Norwich or between the lines.

There didnt seem to be any real idea of how to break them down bar keep moving the ball from side to side and rely on the fullbacks crossing, which they did provide some half decent crosses that weren't taken advantage of but again its predictable and pointless if your not going to finish those chances or at least flood the box a bit more.

Kovacic was steady enough in the middle tonight too but think he could have done more to take some of their MF players out of the game by asking for the ball off the CBs or Jorginho and spinning anyone tryna put him under pressure, he has done it in phases and his ability to retain the ball in tight areas indicates he should be looking to do it more frequently. Think we also missed Mason as well if I am perfectly honest but he has played a lot this season so can see why Frank maybe didnt take him on. 
 

I really get the impression Frank doesnt fancy Jorginho though. He would much prefer Ngolo or Billy there.

[Magic Lamps 9,354]

Jorginho is the best player in the world when it comes to reliable slowing the game down and keeping the ball circulating ponderously between him and our defenders.Was helpful for keeping it at 1-0 today on both ends but you can see why Lamps does not fancy him. I am not a Gilmour fan buthe passes it with more urgency and sees spaces that Jorginho doesnt or is too cautious to use.

[Tomo 20,224]

He dropped between the two CB's today whenever they found they're passing options cut off which is one of the reasons i'm pro regista and anti "sitting DM".

It may seem simple but without him doing that the CB boots it to nowhere or worse overcomplicates things and gives a dangerous turnover and we miss that sort of straight forward recycling of possession with Kante playing there.

[Magic Lamps 9,354]

Just now, Tomo said:

He dropped between the two CB's today whenever they found they're passing options cut off which is one of the reasons i'm pro regista and anti "sitting DM".

It may seem simple but without him doing that the CB boots it to nowhere or worse overcomplicates things and gives a dangerous turnover and we miss that sort of straight forward recycling of possession with Kante playing there.

But it is of no use when he takes ages on the ball and just passes it sideways or back to the keeper. Jorginho always takes the safe option and is almost never creative.

[Tomo 20,224]

1 minute ago, Magic Lamps said:

But it is of no use when he takes ages on the ball and just passes it sideways or back to the keeper. Jorginho always takes the safe option and is almost never creative.

It is use if he recieves the ball from a player under pressure and in turn finds a player who isn't. Sideways and backwards is a much preferable alternative to losing possession which gets lost with this team at times.

[OneMoSalah 7,307]

37 minutes ago, Tomo said:

It is use if he recieves the ball from a player under pressure and in turn finds a player who isn't. Sideways and backwards is a much preferable alternative to losing possession which gets lost with this team at times.

Exactly.

Also he isn’t just limited to going sideways and backwards but the difference in terms of the options we had when players had the ball in terms of passing options from earlier in the season to now is a big difference.

You cannot always pass forward if the options have been shut off or there aren’t as many as there could be but people seem to think that Jorginho is usually always the reason as to why.... Rodri at City very much does a similar job but they’ve got the players who will move off the ball into clever pockets or run in behind and create problems for others as well as creating space where you see the likes of De Bruyne or Silva pick it up and have real time in these sort of half spaces. Jorginho is never going to get 10 assists a season for instance that isnt why he plays there. He controls the game and if our other midfielders/attackers were more productive this wouldn’t be an issue. Same with Rodri at City although his role is slightly different but their fans wouldn’t dare focus on ‘he isnt creative’ enough because there are others there to do that. 

Also tonight I was impressed by little things I seen from Todd Cantwell, most times he received the ball he was aware of if he was marked tightly and always was shaping or opening his body so he could go forward with it into space or an opening. It may only seem like a little thing but that is what I used to like about Barkley when he broke through at Everton. Kovacic is capable of it too.

There is more problems than just Jorginho in this team. The lack of urgency and movement when we get up the pitch is alarming at times, as well as the finishing.

1 hour ago, Magic Lamps said:

But it is of no use when he takes ages on the ball and just passes it sideways or back to the keeper. Jorginho always takes the safe option and is almost never creative.

Whats he meant to do if he gets it standing around the middle of his own half? Punt it 50 or 60 metres in behind a defence to Giroud who very rarely runs in behind teams as his strength is playing to his feet and getting guys closer to him to play off that? Or Willian who again prefers to come short? I wouldnt say he plays it safe but when he has to he does yes but just look at the difference from the start of the season to now. We had more willing runners and more unpredictability in attack, now we really dont for whatever reason (same as what Sarri did perhaps, try and keep more men in better positions so we are more stable if we lose it?).

I mean If Pulisic doesnt do anything or end up on the end of a low centre/cross in the box from Azpi or Alonso or Giroud doesn’t score from a ball across the 6 yard box, where else is the goals going to come from? The bulk of our chances were centres from our fullbacks, some which were into promising areas, or from corners. 

[NikkiCFC 5,759]

6 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

I would love such "conjectures" with several more of our players who have either been excluded or included for atleast 10 games (so as to have a decent sample size) and which gives such drastic results and differences between win% (37.5% vs 81%). Should be pretty easy, right?

Our only loss without Kante this season is SU the other day. 

Alonso started just one of our 11 losses this season (West Ham).

Similar with Barkley. Big difference when he is starting.

I am speaking only about PL. These three players have bigger differences in percentage of wins  than Jorginho.

Conclusion Alonso and Barkley are best Chelsea players and Kante worst?

[bohops 6]

12 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Our only loss without Kante this season is SU the other day. 

Alonso started just one of our 11 losses this season (West Ham).

Similar with Barkley. Big difference when he is starting.

I am speaking only about PL. These three players have bigger differences in percentage of wins  than Jorginho.

Conclusion Alonso and Barkley are best Chelsea players and Kante worst?

Barkley is a passage, a goal and/or assist on occasions doesn't change that

[communicate 2,703]

On 7/15/2020 at 6:05 AM, Tomo said:

It is use if he recieves the ball from a player under pressure and in turn finds a player who isn't. Sideways and backwards is a much preferable alternative to losing possession which gets lost with this team at times.

You are right Tomo, jorginho is very2 good at keeping possession. IMO better than kante and Gilmour. The problem is, he is such a liability defensively that he need to offer more than ball possession. I am not asking for long ball behind defensive line, that is not possible since his passing range is not great but I want much more between the line passing. 

It is similar to cesc and pirlo. Both are unathletic but both offer so much offensively that you are willing to compensate. 

[NikkiCFC 5,759]

Fuck off. Give us money.

[killer1257 3,217]

Fuck off. Give us money.

I do not think they have the money for Jorgi

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[Puliiszola 519]

1 minute ago, killer1257 said:

I do not think they have the money for Jorgi

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De ligt then 😂

[OneMoSalah 7,307]

12 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

De ligt then 😂

De Ligt is on an extraordinary wage, his salary is like 14-15m a year basic with a shit tonne of bonuses that can take it up to 20m or beyond apparently. Plus hes just started to find his feet in Italy after a tough start. Would be nice though but like Oblak near financially impossible to pull off imo. Those level of players dont take a huge pay cut. Plus name one player who has ever come here and taken a pay cut in the last 10 years? It would be a rarity to find a name.

[Jason 42,339]

15 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Fuck off. Give us money.

This goes out of the window if Sarri gets sacked by Juventus. 

[Puliiszola 519]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

This goes out of the window if Sarri gets sacked by Juventus. 

Are there any rumors about it?

I do know that they have had some poor results since the restart. But nothing other than that

[Jason 42,339]

2 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

Are there any rumors about it?

I do know that they have had some poor results since the restart. But nothing other than that

There have been talks about it but nothing major yet. Sarri's future depends on Juventus' progress in the Champions League this season.

It's not just the poor results but the poor performances, the inconsistency. Sarri is basically having the same problems that he had us with last season. Individual quality has bailed him out so many times this season.

[King Kante 695]

Depending on the kind of money Napoli rake in for KK, they may also be an option for Jorgi. Personally, in this market I reckon he will be going for around £30-£40m range. 

[killer1257 3,217]

Depending on the kind of money Napoli rank in for KK, they may also be an option for Jorgi. Personally, in this market I reckon he will be going for around £30-£40m range. 

Would be enough for me.

But Neapel will also go for Boga

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[Jason 42,339]

23 minutes ago, King Kante said:

Depending on the kind of money Napoli rake in for KK, they may also be an option for Jorgi. Personally, in this market I reckon he will be going for around £30-£40m range. 

I don't think Jorginho is a Gattuso type player.

Moreover, Jorginho still has 3 years left on his contract. No way Marina is gonna let him go for around 30-40 million only.