Sarri But Not Sarri Thread

[kc_blue 265]

1 hour ago, Fernando said:

We have regress badly as a club. 

It starts from the top.  It's been happening for years now and it's finally built to a point that it's hard to argue against.  The league wins with Mourinho and Conte just put a gloss on things and made it easier to dismiss people bringing up issues with player recruitment and other board issues.  Now it's there big and bold and ugly in our faces, our squad just isn't up to par with our ambitions and/or expectations.  Managers have come and gone but the issues remain.  

[NikkiCFC 7,580]

4 hours ago, Nicco said:

Even Solari will come a round or 2 short of winning the CL this season, any fucking average manager could do it or come close. The difference is this guy had some incredible luck. To no ones surprise he struggled in La Liga.

I also think that Pep and Zidane would have zero CL's combine if VAR existed 10 years ago.

[Clockwork 1,763]

If you are going to sack him then you have to do it now. If you believe in him and his vision that is one thing. But at this point you know what you have with Sarri as far as what he has with the players at his disposal. He is not going to change, if a 6-0 defeat doesn't change him than nothing will. He will in fact be more stubborn, he thinks the players he has invested the most in give him the best chance at results. He is not going to play  CHO for example, because he is a novice at his system for him it is not worth the risk. 

The worst decision would be to sack him down the line, while you could have salvaged as many games as possible. 

[Tomo 21,681]

15 minutes ago, kc_blue said:

It starts from the top.  It's been happening for years now and it's finally built to a point that it's hard to argue against.  The league wins with Mourinho and Conte just put a gloss on things and made it easier to dismiss people bringing up issues with player recruitment and other board issues.  Now it's there big and bold and ugly in our faces, our squad just isn't up to par with our ambitions and/or expectations.  Managers have come and gone but the issues remain.  

The confusing thing is at every other level we are practically flawless, we dominate youth level and the women's game in a way that makes the Greek league look competitive so why can't we translate that to the mens first team? 

Those teams are all managed by through and through Chelsea people, so maybe the next move is to try similar at first team level? Be it Lamps or the traditional boot room.

[kc_blue 265]

19 minutes ago, Tomo said:

The confusing thing is at every other level we are practically flawless, we dominate youth level and the women's game in a way that makes the Greek league look competitive so why can't we translate that to the mens first team? 

Those teams are all managed by through and through Chelsea people, so maybe the next move is to try similar at first team level? Be it Lamps or the traditional boot room

It is confusing.  I have to admit I don't know enough about the back ground set up for the women's team to say much about it.  

I'm not sure Lamps would be a good choice just yet, purely from a lack of experience perspective but who knows, maybe it's worth a shot.  I honestly think the changes need to deeper then just the manager though.  There needs to be a shake up at the board level in my opinion.  

[Blue Armour 4,164]

I maybe in the minority when I say this, ...but I cannot really blame the board.,.for THIS season at least.

After a long time, they did something bold by hiring someone like Sarri to take the helm. Unproven, but believed to potentially be able to bring the type of attacking football many fans have been craving for, for a long time. A really unorthodox move, all things considered. 

Compared to the transfer windows from recent seasons, they even bent over backwards not once, but twice, to get the manager his number one target, in Jorginho and Higuain.

But for the moment, they seem to have been duped by Sarri's mad plan. Whether there is any method to it, I'm not sure, but we are starting to go into free fall because of his designs.

With every negative result, I become more curious to see whether Sarri will actually change something in the next game. He seemed to tweak things a little bit, earlier on in the season, most notably, the City game.

But now, he just seems to fallen into that same poisonous mindset that gripped Conte in his second season. Refusal to change tactics or personnel. Adamant to prove that he's right.

I'm going to be pragmatic for a moment,..and say, okay, we're one point from top 4, still in a couple of other cup competitions, and in the final of one. So I'll wait a little more before passing any true judgement.

However though, the game at the Bridge with Spurs is going to weigh heavily upon things.

[Blue Armour 4,164]

35 minutes ago, Tomo said:

The confusing thing is at every other level we are practically flawless, we dominate youth level and the women's game in a way that makes the Greek league look competitive so why can't we translate that to the mens first team? 

Those teams are all managed by through and through Chelsea people, so maybe the next move is to try similar at first team level? Be it Lamps or the traditional boot room.

Really tempted by the idea of Lampard coming into management here. Would, no doubt, bring a couple of other members of the old guard with him to boost the dressing room mentality. Joe Cole is already a Chelsea youth coach.

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

Ok so he is going to get the sack. And then miraculously the players 'find' their form back. And Sarri would then be the 3rd manager in such a short space of time that had to go at the hand of players power. 

At this point to me it looks that Sarri could come up with the most revolutionary tactics and training methods, the players simply have gone into holiday mood already. Three seasons in five years they tanked even before January... 

[Tomo 21,681]

3 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Really tempted by the idea of Lampard coming into management here. Would, no doubt, bring a couple of other members of the old guard with him to boost the dressing room mentality. Joe Cole is already a Chelsea youth coach.

Not sure about the vacancy's he will have if hypothetically he comes, i imagine Jody will follow alongside Shay Given, Zola will probably stay in the Steve Holland role until he has a better offer.

I may be in the minority but i wouldn't want any of the old guard to come in as a number 2 to Frank, would be too unbalanced for me.

[kc_blue 265]

7 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

After a long time, they did something bold by hiring someone like Sarri to take the helm. Unproven, but believed to potentially be able to bring the type of attacking football many fans have been craving for, for a long time. A really unorthodox move, all things considered.

I agree with you on this, but did they set him up to be successful?  Did they get him in early in the summer so he could have a full preseason?

8 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Compared to the transfer windows from recent seasons, they even bent over backwards not once, but twice, to get the manager his number one target, in Jorginho and Higuain.

This point I'll concede they got him Jorginho, but waiting until the end of January for Higuaín really didn't do him any favors.  Who knows how it would have turned out if they'd brought him in the summer as well.  Really they took a 5th place team and added Jorginho and picked up Kovacic on loan.  Switched out keepers.  I'm not sure that would have been enough to improve the team much anyway, but throw in changing the philosophy and style of play, I don't think the board did Sarri any favors.  They didn't have the courage of their convictions to get fully behind the change and back it with everything they could to be successful.  

[Blue Armour 4,164]

2 minutes ago, kc_blue said:

I agree with you on this, but did they set him up to be successful?  Did they get him in early in the summer so he could have a full preseason?

This point I'll concede they got him Jorginho, but waiting until the end of January for Higuaín really didn't do him any favors.  Who knows how it would have turned out if they'd brought him in the summer as well.  Really they took a 5th place team and added Jorginho and picked up Kovacic on loan.  Switched out keepers.  I'm not sure that would have been enough to improve the team much anyway, but throw in changing the philosophy and style of play, I don't think the board did Sarri any favors.  They didn't have the courage of their convictions to get fully behind the change and back it with everything they could to be successful.  

 

Those are very fair points. The short pre-season, and the dealing of Conte, was a blunder on their part. I have mixed feelings about the Higuain transfer being delayed. I guess Sarri would have liked to have him earlier on.

But remember, Sarri was the one who openly came out and said on arrival: "The transfer market bores me". He basically admitted he would try to coach and 'improve' the players that he already has. At the time, the board still wanted to give Morata another chance. Because they paid a lot for him, and it was technically his second season. Considering this, they have some justification for delaying the Higuain move (although it looks bad in hindsight)

[Jase 43,479]

A manager's job is to put the players in a system that maximize their abilities and hide their weaknesses as much as possible, individually and collectively. But Sarri is doing the complete opposite by forcing his system onto the players who clearly don't fit his system and he's making everyone look bad. There are some who are just bad anyway but his stubbornness is making a number of the players look worse than they actually are. 

[Jase 43,479]

7 minutes ago, kc_blue said:

I agree with you on this, but did they set him up to be successful?  Did they get him in early in the summer so he could have a full preseason?

 

Just now, Blue Armour said:

Those are very fair points. The short pre-season, and the dealing of Conte, was a blunder on their part.

Sure, we should have done his appointment earlier but this talk of Sarri didn't have the full pre-season is nonsense TBH.

 

[kc_blue 265]

15 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

But remember, Sarri was the one who openly came out and said on arrival: "The transfer market bores me". He basically admitted he would try to coach and 'improve' the players that he already has. At the time, the board still wanted to give Morata another chance. Because they paid a lot for him, and it was technically his second season. Considering this, they have some justification for delaying the Higuain move (although it looks bad in hindsight)

Yes, he did say that, but wasn't your point that the board did a good job this off season?  My point earlier was that the problems go further then the manager and that we need a shake up at the board level.  The new manager may have said the transfer market bores him but the board should have realized that the squad needed more then just Jorginho and a loan of Kovacic to compete at the level they expect.  That's why I think the titles won by Mourinho and Conte glossed things over, especially at the board level.  I don't think they are actually in touch with the quality or lack there of in the current squad.

[Henrique 9,133]

37 minutes ago, petre.ispirescu said:

Ok so he is going to get the sack. And then miraculously the players 'find' their form back. And Sarri would then be the 3rd manager in such a short space of time that had to go at the hand of players power. 

At this point to me it looks that Sarri could come up with the most revolutionary tactics and training methods, the players simply have gone into holiday mood already. Three seasons in five years they tanked even before January... 

The players will find the form again because nothing can be worse than Sarri with his clueless tactics.

[1905didierblue 748]

1 minute ago, Henrique said:

The players will find the form again because nothing can be worse than Sarri with his clueless tactics.

So true. Can't believe the players are getting the blame. They have been guilty of downing the tools in the.past, but yesterday I can't say they did not put in a good effort. Hell, I even saw Eden chase down rashford in the 80th minute or so. The players are putting in the effort but the tactics have made them look like shit.

[kc_blue 265]

14 minutes ago, Jason said:

Sure, we should have done his appointment earlier but this talk of Sarri didn't have the full pre-season is nonsense TBH.

Is that right?  I must have misremembered, I thought Conte took the first two days of preseason and then was let go.  I don't remember Sarri showing up and taking over the next day, I thought they had someone else running training for at least another couple days after that.  I thought it came out to basically missing the first week.  He might have only missed the first two days but I think it goes further then that.  It was always going to be a tough preseason this year with the World Cup but the Conte situation and the haggling with Napoli only added to it.  It's arguable, but I'm a firm believer in the importance of preseason.  No reason to set yourself back anymore then you need to.  Others may disagree of course.

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, kc_blue said:

Is that right?  I must have misremembered, I thought Conte took the first two days of preseason and then was let go.  I don't remember Sarri showing up and taking over the next day, I thought they had someone else running training for at least another couple days after that.  I thought it came out to basically missing the first week. 

We got Sarri two days into pre-season and he immediately took over after that. Why would someone else ran the training if we had already gotten our manager?

3 minutes ago, kc_blue said:

It's arguable, but I'm a firm believer in the importance of preseason.  No reason to set yourself back anymore then you need to.  Others may disagree of course.

Yeah and CHO was arguably the best performer in pre-season but was hardly ever used after that...