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19. Mason Mount


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It is 2020 and people still think Barkley will become good...

Scored a hattrick tonight and made an assist for Vitesse in their Europa League playoff match against Ado Den Haag. What a season this lad is having. I think that is double figures for both goals and

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1 hour ago, Blue Armour said:

Hope this game puts to bed all those accusations that he fails to step up in big games.

Lucky to have him.

Do you really believe that will happen?¬†ūüėČ

He's slowing taking over my Fav spot from Kante... fantastic player!

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As I always like to do with Mount, I will compare his stats to those of SFL in his first three seasons at Chelsea (also remember SFL was 2.5 years older than Mount when he arrived.) 

SFL 

01/02 - 53 games - 7 goals, 2 assists - 4483 mins - goal/assist every 498 mins

02/03 - 48 games - 8 goals, 5 assists - 4127 mins - goal/assist every 317 mins

03/04 - 58 games - 15 goals, 9 assists - 5041 mins - goal/assist every 210 mins

Mount 

19/20 - 53 games - 7 goals, 6 assists - 3741 mins - goal/assist every 288 mins

20/21 - 54 games - 9 goals, 9 assists - 4242 mins - goal/assist every 236 mins

21/22 - 45 games - 11 goals, 14 assists - 3049 mins - goal/assist every 122 mins

People need to remember that Mount shouldn't really be thought of as a pure AM but more of a old No.8 like SFL because of his off the ball work when out of possession. 

However, I always use this metric (even though I am not a fan of stats alone) as I used to have to defend SFL a lot in his first three seasons here. As I am doing with Mount, I always pointed to the fact that he was improving year on year and that by the time he got to 25 onwards it would put him in good stead. 

What is impressive with Mount is that he is showing similar progress with more advanced metrics at 2.5 years younger. In addition, he also has three years of CL experience whereas SFL only got a one/two rounds of UEFA cup experience in his first two years. 

Lastly, SFL in his 03/04 season also has the 'issue' of primarily scoring against smaller teams. If you look into advanced stats the majority of his league goals that season 70%+ came against teams in the bottom half of the league, whilst his only goal against a top 6 team was a peno against Utd. 

Tbh, this comparison is going to start to become harder from next year as SFL became our Peno taker from 04/05, however I think this should always be considered, especially as Mount is still only 23. 

Edited by King Kante
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1 hour ago, King Kante said:

As I always like to do with Mount, I will compare his stats to those of SFL in his first three seasons at Chelsea (also remember SFL was 2.5 years older than Mount when he arrived.) 

SFL 

01/02 - 53 games - 7 goals, 2 assists - 4483 mins - goal/assist every 498 mins

02/03 - 48 games - 8 goals, 5 assists - 4127 mins - goal/assist every 317 mins

03/04 - 58 games - 15 goals, 9 assists - 5041 mins - goal/assist every 210 mins

Mount 

19/20 - 53 games - 7 goals, 6 assists - 3741 mins - goal/assist every 288 mins

20/21 - 54 games - 9 goals, 9 assists - 4242 mins - goal/assist every 236 mins

21/22 - 45 games - 11 goals, 14 assists - 3049 mins - goal/assist every 122 mins

People need to remember that Mount shouldn't really be thought of as a pure AM but more of a old No.8 like SFL because of his off the ball work when out of possession. 

However, I always use this metric (even though I am not a fan of stats alone) as I used to have to defend SFL a lot in his first three seasons here. As I am doing with Mount, I always pointed to the fact that he was improving year on year and that by the time he got to 25 onwards it would put him in good stead. 

What is impressive with Mount is that he is showing similar progress with more advanced metrics at 2.5 years younger. In addition, he also has three years of CL experience whereas SFL only got a one/two rounds of UEFA cup experience in his first two years. 

Lastly, SFL in his 03/04 season also has the 'issue' of primarily scoring against smaller teams. If you look into advanced stats the majority of his league goals that season 70%+ came against teams in the bottom half of the league, whilst his only goal against a top 6 team was a peno against Utd. 

Tbh, this comparison is going to start to become harder from next year as SFL became our Peno taker from 04/05, however I think this should always be considered, especially as Mount is still only 23. 

You can call him number 8 but last 15 months he is not even a number 10 but more of a winger/striker (I mean TT said we play with 3 strikers). If we go back to 433 and he is in MF would he be able to score more than 5 or 6 goals? For England he plays there and scores rarely. Also going with comparison with Lampard logic did Oscar become better player than Frank based on his first 2 or 3 seasons at Chelsea? And another very important argument about Mount how many other clubs fans you know who rate him? When England plays fans always criticise him, and when you go to other clubs forums or comments section on Daily Mail for example it's quite similar. 

 

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10 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

You can call him number 8 but last 15 months he is not even a number 10 but more of a winger/striker (I mean TT said we play with 3 strikers). If we go back to 433 and he is in MF would he be able to score more than 5 or 6 goals? For England he plays there and scores rarely. Also going with comparison with Lampard logic did Oscar become better player than Frank based on his first 2 or 3 seasons at Chelsea? And another very important argument about Mount how many other clubs fans you know who rate him? When England plays fans always criticise him, and when you go to other clubs forums or comments section on Daily Mail for example it's quite similar. 

It's because armchair fans love something flashy. There was huge clamour for Grealish to be playing more regularly for England because he played in a way to entertain fans. Pulls out one or two tricks and that's all everyone talks about. It's the era we're in with youtube, twitter, etc. Foden, although a better player than Grealish is somewhat similar where he was being hyped as this era's Gazza and as a result fans are pissed that the more solid, efficient player is in ahead of him (and for the record except one goal against Liverpool, Foden's other 6 goals and 4 assists this season have been against teams in the bottom half of the league which seems to be a stick to beat Mount with).

These players may be more technically superior to Mount but neither have the work rate, off the ball movement, defensive discipline and reliability that Mount has. It's why he's trusted by Southgate over them. It's why despite what these opposition fans might say, all of the managers at their clubs would snap him up if Chelsea made him available, including Klopp and Pep.

Now does he get more leniency from the fanbase because he came from the academy? Yes that's probably a fairer statement but it's also probably because even when he is playing poor and things aren't happening, people can still appreciate that he puts a full shift in.

Ultimately though despite all the Lampard's pet rubbish, Tuchel has no previous ties to the club or the players and he's still been an integral part of the team under him for over a year now. Anyone who believes we're a better side without him in the team rather than with him must be watching a different game to me. 

 

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59 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

When England plays fans always criticise him, and when you go to other clubs forums or comments section on Daily Mail for example it's quite similar. 

They will be fans of rival English clubs - its probably the same in your Serbia ? As for the Daily Mail, theres more sense in dog shit

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13 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

They will be fans of rival English clubs - its probably the same in your Serbia ? As for the Daily Mail, theres more sense in dog shit

I might be minority over majority but ever since I was a kid and even now in my mid 30's I find it incredibly difficult to support and get excited about England being successful. And the only reason for that is because I expend so much energy through a season supporting my club and hating all of these players from rival clubs, it's difficult to flick a switch and suddenly cheer them on. 

Why do I want to see England's captain do well when he's a Spurs legend? Because of their pitiful existence, if England were to win something under Kane's captaincy, Spurs would probably make some monumental thing about it in the same way West Hams most glorious moment in history is their 3 players that won the World Cup with England.

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3 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I might be minority over majority but ever since I was a kid and even now in my mid 30's I find it incredibly difficult to support and get excited about England being successful. And the only reason for that is because I expend so much energy through a season supporting my club and hating all of these players from rival clubs, it's difficult to flick a switch and suddenly cheer them on. 

Why do I want to see England's captain do well when he's a Spurs legend? Because of their pitiful existence, if England were to win something under Kane's captaincy, Spurs would probably make some monumental thing about it in the same way West Hams most glorious moment in history is their 3 players that won the World Cup with England.

Same, never get that excited about Nationalism (its the biggest cause of wars dontchaknow ūüėČ) but love the atmos and excitement of an International tournament.

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4 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

You can call him number 8 but last 15 months he is not even a number 10 but more of a winger/striker (I mean TT said we play with 3 strikers). If we go back to 433 and he is in MF would he be able to score more than 5 or 6 goals? For England he plays there and scores rarely. Also going with comparison with Lampard logic did Oscar become better player than Frank based on his first 2 or 3 seasons at Chelsea? And another very important argument about Mount how many other clubs fans you know who rate him? When England plays fans always criticise him, and when you go to other clubs forums or comments section on Daily Mail for example it's quite similar. 

 

Nikki this first bit is where I feel you're not 'seeing the wood from the trees' as the British say. It seems to me that because Mount lines up in a traditionally WF role (No.11/No.7) in a 343/352 you're expecting WF play from him. 

This for me isn't the case, and he is instead being told to play a hybrid No.8/No.11 role in traditional parlance. This is why I feel the comparison to Lampard is fair, especially as Lanpard had to play RW in a 442 for a lot of his first two seasons which meant people were expecting him flying down the wing and crossing like Beckham/Figo.

I mean, let's be real, how does he get away with playing as he does if TT and Southgate are telling him to go out and play like Hazard/Mbappe/Sancho etc? It is clear they don't expect him to do that and like what he does do. 

As for Oscar, I feel he is a good example of a player that stagnated; well done for bringing him up. I would say no, he never became as good as SFL, but he could've been if he had applied himself and had the desire/commitment. For me, if he had applied himself and focused on his game more in training then he could've been a very good/to great player. However, for whatever reason, he didn't (probably because he was shagged out banging both his wife and her sister.) 

Additionally, my point on Mount's stats wasn't so much to say he is a better player than Lampard in his first three seasons but rather that he is showing statistical leaps each season that are similar to Lampard. A important thing to remember with Lampard is that he was considered World Class until he was 26/27+. A lot of this was due to people not rating him when he was younger/not appreciating how much work he put in to become great rather than being naturally great. 

As for England fans, 90% of them are morons and only a few of them can get over their club loyalties when evaluating players. 

4 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

It's because armchair fans love something flashy. There was huge clamour for Grealish to be playing more regularly for England because he played in a way to entertain fans. Pulls out one or two tricks and that's all everyone talks about. It's the era we're in with youtube, twitter, etc. Foden, although a better player than Grealish is somewhat similar where he was being hyped as this era's Gazza and as a result fans are pissed that the more solid, efficient player is in ahead of him (and for the record except one goal against Liverpool, Foden's other 6 goals and 4 assists this season have been against teams in the bottom half of the league which seems to be a stick to beat Mount with).

These players may be more technically superior to Mount but neither have the work rate, off the ball movement, defensive discipline and reliability that Mount has. It's why he's trusted by Southgate over them. It's why despite what these opposition fans might say, all of the managers at their clubs would snap him up if Chelsea made him available, including Klopp and Pep.

Now does he get more leniency from the fanbase because he came from the academy? Yes that's probably a fairer statement but it's also probably because even when he is playing poor and things aren't happening, people can still appreciate that he puts a full shift in.

Ultimately though despite all the Lampard's pet rubbish, Tuchel has no previous ties to the club or the players and he's still been an integral part of the team under him for over a year now. Anyone who believes we're a better side without him in the team rather than with him must be watching a different game to me. 

 

Saved me a lot of time with the rest I wanted to post. 

Edited by King Kante
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6 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

You can call him number 8 but last 15 months he is not even a number 10 but more of a winger/striker (I mean TT said we play with 3 strikers). If we go back to 433 and he is in MF would he be able to score more than 5 or 6 goals? For England he plays there and scores rarely. Also going with comparison with Lampard logic did Oscar become better player than Frank based on his first 2 or 3 seasons at Chelsea? And another very important argument about Mount how many other clubs fans you know who rate him? When England plays fans always criticise him, and when you go to other clubs forums or comments section on Daily Mail for example it's quite similar. 

 

Rival fans thought Wan Bissaka would block James from having an international career.

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2 hours ago, Fernando said:

He would be play with Mount and Gallagher? 

In a midfield three or Mount at CAM and Gallagher at CM in a 5212. 

Think in games where we need to press from the front foot, Kovacic and Gallagher partnership would be ideal. 

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8 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

And another very important argument about Mount how many other clubs fans you know who rate him? When England plays fans always criticise him, and when you go to other clubs forums or comments section on Daily Mail for example it's quite similar. 

 

That is what makes it feel better, that they are left with egg on their face. As @Superblue_1986 said Grealish is fancied more because he is more flashy and more exciting to watch etc and it is annoying that all the English fans who begged for Grealish to start would take it out on Mount. People would say Grealish isnt starting because he is not at a 'big team'. Grealish is now at a 'big team' and while I don't always want to flash the stats card, if Grealish had Mount stats this season, the Grealish fanboys would be jumping on their high horse. Grealish has only 4 goals this season. 2 in the league and only 2 assists. Grealish has escaped a lot of criticism from the media for obvious reasons but using other supporter's fans views of Mount is a strawman's response.

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  • 2 weeks later...

rotating_light The Athletic has learnt that 3 of the biggest English Clubs plus others from aboard are already putting plans in place to sign Mason Mount. 

@SJohnsonSport @TheAthleticUK

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Just another goal and assist in the same game. Common feat.

13 goals and 16 assists in all competitions this season. Amazing.

Edited by Stats
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New deal for him and RJ has been mooted. Must be top of the list. People keep trying to shoot him down but look at his stats this season.

And yes that includes you @NikkiCFC 

How has Grealish’s season at City gone? Or Barkleys? 2 players you said were better than Mason repeatedly over the last 2 years.

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1 hour ago, Stats said:

Just another goal and assist in the same game. Common feat.

13 goals and 16 assists in all competitions this season. Amazing.

That stat is crazy. Also our only player with double digits goals and assists in the league...Just feels so much less no idea why... maybe is is because he plays so much. Also only 1 penalty at that. Would not surprise me if he scores more non-penalty goals than Penandes next season lol

Have not had such prolific midfielder since Lamps and Mata.

 

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Have to say, Mount has been brilliant this season. I have been harsh and quick to criticise the lad but he has shown real quality this year. 

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Good to see positive posts for Mount. I have a feeling that he would end up being underrated for most of his career because he doesnt bring the swag which half decent players brings to the table. 

Hoping good thing from Mount. 

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