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19. Mason Mount


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Jesus you’d think Mount played for Scunthorpe or something reading this thread.

Some of you need to wake up and watch the games, not choosing what you want to see, which is Mount “not playing well”

The only inconsistency in his game right now is his end product, everything else is at a more than suitable level, as is the same for most 22 year old attacking midfielders or even footballers, bar the odd exception. Beginning to wonder about some of yous...

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It is 2020 and people still think Barkley will become good...

Scored a hattrick tonight and made an assist for Vitesse in their Europa League playoff match against Ado Den Haag. What a season this lad is having. I think that is double figures for both goals and

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7 hours ago, robsblubot said:

eh yeah that depends on how you look at it, but I'd definitely consider him a goal threat.

And at 22, I honestly think we are way too demanding on him.

I mean, he gets into goalscoring positions but it doesn't change the fact that he has only 13 goals in 87 appearances for us. That's 1 goal every 6.7 games.

Way too demanding on him? He plays for Chelsea, not Derby County and if anything, it's probably a testament to him that people are saying he should be doing better, because he can. No one wants him to turn into another Willian that does all the hard work but becomes braindead in the final third. 

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14 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Liverpool and PSG are the only teams that can be successful that way because they have world class front 3 players. Salah, Mane and Firmino or Mbappe, Neymar and Cavani/Icardi/Di Maria. They played mostly with 3 CM/DM type of midfielders behind because those guys upfront can score 70/80 goals per season on their own. Just give them the ball. 

We don't have that. Werner, Giroud, Tammy or even if we get Haaland would be dependable on our midfielders delivering for them. And if they have Mount behind they are pretty much fucked. This is my point. 

Doesn't matter if he plays number 8, or 10 or is one of the 3 most offensive players. 

Salah, Mane, Firmino, Mbappe, Neymar, and Cavani would be nothing without their midfield press. How many goals have Liverpool and PSG scored alone because of the intensity of their press? Not only that, how many goals have they scored because of their quick transitional play? 

Again, no one is asking Mount to spearhead our attack. He is however an important clog in how our midfield operates. 

14 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

Btw he has reputation of goal scoring midfielder. In Vitesse, Derby etc...  So is different to Wijnaldum in that regard. 

And he has always been most attacking midfield in any setup for any team. Also played 15+ games for Chelsea as a winger and many times for England. 

 

The same Wijnaldum that scored 56 goals in 4 seasons for PSV? Being coincidentally dropped deeper the moment he moved to England?

14 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

You basically admitted there is no place for Mount in this formation? 

He can't play in double pivot either. Tuchel said Gilmour is number 4 there and we know who are 3 players ahead. 

Are you saying Mount is a system player and can only play in 433? And even Lampard before being sacked said that he sees our number 8s as two number 10. Nevertheless on formation our attackers are dependable on players behind. 

I want Chelsea to be successful and this is the point of whole discussion. 

 

Aye, I don't want Mount spearheading our attack, but what choice do we have when Pulisic, Havertz, and Ziyech aren't delivering? 

I hope we steer away from the 343 once the team is comfortable enough to do so. Mount would be ideal in a 433 or 442 at central midfield. When you look at Tuchel's tactical flexibility, you can definitely see how Mount could become crucial for us. 

 

Dortmund

4-2-3-1 = 24

4-1-4-1 = 15

3-4-3 = 13

4-3-3 = 6

3-1-4-2 = 5

PSG

4-3-3 = 26

4-4-2 = 14

4-2-2-2 = 10

4-2-3-1 = 8

3-5-2 = 7

14 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

I want Chelsea to be successful and this is the point of whole discussion. 

Without Giroud wonder strike we would not score. Without pens we would not score against Spurs and Southampton. Without defenders we would not score against Burnley... I'm not saying this is all on Mount ofc but trying to figure it out how can we solve our offensive problems that are clear. 

I've never saw future with Lamps 433 and Kante solo with Mount and Kai or Kova as number 8s. That would take us nowhere. Because it is not best position for Kante and Kai. And there was no balance. 

Tuchel made formation change which is good step forward considering it is more suitable for this group of players. 

But now is the time to go with Kai/Hakim in Mount role. 

 

 

 

Again, how is it Mount's fault that neither Ziyech nor Havertz are performing? What have either of them done to merit themselves starting over Mount who's arguably been the best performer under Tuchel so far? Believe me, I want them to start to but we are genuinely risking both our press and intensity when we lose Mount in favor of them. 

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13 hours ago, Jason said:

I mean, he gets into goalscoring positions but it doesn't change the fact that he has only 13 goals in 87 appearances for us. That's 1 goal every 6.7 games.

Way too demanding on him? He plays for Chelsea, not Derby County and if anything, it's probably a testament to him that people are saying he should be doing better, because he can. No one wants him to turn into another Willian that does all the hard work but becomes braindead in the final third. 

I disagree regarding younger players. With that mindset, no younger player will ever get minutes. Abraham got a lot of minutes (and starts) under Lampard and I don't see any quality in him (wish I did), but that's information.

Folks at the club clearly see attributes in mount's game which warrants investing in his development. I think he gets to start because he's good tactically and has a lot of intensity to his game, aside from his good technique. 

In short, no, don't think he will be good enough if he does not develop, but the club (myself and others here) think that he will, and what he does right now is already good enough, hence why he starts regardless of manager.

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6 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

I disagree regarding younger players. With that mindset, no younger player will ever get minutes. Abraham got a lot of minutes (and starts) under Lampard and I don't see any quality in him (wish I did), but that's information.

Folks at the club clearly see attributes in mount's game which warrants investing in his development. I think he gets to start because he's good tactically and has a lot of intensity to his game, aside from his good technique. 

In short, no, don't think he will be good enough if he does not develop, but the club (myself and others here) think that he will, and what he does right now is already good enough, hence why he starts regardless of manager.

Err, did you quote the wrong person or...? Because I wasn't even talking about the development of Mount/Abraham. 

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14 hours ago, Jason said:

I mean, he gets into goalscoring positions but it doesn't change the fact that he has only 13 goals in 87 appearances for us. That's 1 goal every 6.7 games.

Way too demanding on him? He plays for Chelsea, not Derby County and if anything, it's probably a testament to him that people are saying he should be doing better, because he can. No one wants him to turn into another Willian that does all the hard work but becomes braindead in the final third. 

Hes only 22, playing for a top club for only his second season, people seem to be forgetting that. The goals and assists will come consistently. Just like James, CHO, Gilmour, Tammy etc will become more clinical/decisive in their decisions and roles in the team. Last season many of them made a good first impression but the up and down nature is to be expected. We seen the bad side when he was overplayed through a poor run but I think the general improvement in his all round game has been very noticeable this season. 

Obviously as you’ve said a goal every 6.7 games or whatever, yes that needs to go up but boys like Maddison, who is always in comparison with Mason, in 89 PL games has 20 goals, a goal every 4.5 games, thats not very impressive either but it just shows that goals and assists stats can cloud judgement because even then we still know Maddison is a very good player.

The worst of it is though, teams like United and City have got De Bruyne and Fernandes which everyone now expects every attacking midfield player to be as good as they with a few others in Europe, set the standards but Liverpool won the PL comfortably without a number 10 who scored or assisted that sort of numbers, very much having a midfield consisting of players who you would consider more as “dogs” or hard workers because they do the hard miles and aren’t particularly excellent at scoring or creating goals.

Also, not saying Mount should aim to be that sort of player, he should definitely try to be more creative because his general play is good and this is the one area which when he hits a bit of consistency with his end product, hes easily going to be a top top player.

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6 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Hes only 22, playing for a top club for only his second season, people seem to be forgetting that. The goals and assists will come consistently. Just like James, CHO, Gilmour, Tammy etc will become more clinical/decisive in their decisions and roles in the team. Last season many of them made a good first impression but the up and down nature is to be expected. We seen the bad side when he was overplayed through a poor run but I think the general improvement in his all round game has been very noticeable this season. 

Obviously as you’ve said a goal every 6.7 games or whatever, yes that needs to go up but boys like Maddison, who is always in comparison with Mason, in 89 PL games has 20 goals, a goal every 4.5 games, thats not very impressive either but it just shows that goals and assists stats can cloud judgement because even then we still know Maddison is a very good player.

The worst of it is though, teams like United and City have got De Bruyne and Fernandes which everyone now expects every attacking midfield player to be as good as they with a few others in Europe, set the standards but Liverpool won the PL comfortably without a number 10 who scored or assisted that sort of numbers, very much having a midfield consisting of players who you would consider more as “dogs” or hard workers because they do the hard miles and aren’t particularly excellent at scoring or creating goals.

Also, not saying Mount should aim to be that sort of player, he should definitely try to be more creative because his general play is good and this is the one area which when he hits a bit of consistency with his end product, hes easily going to be a top top player.

e87d01bb8fcc8c506a0449dfdc3366a0.gif

I don't know why you guys keep on throwing the comparison at me. Am not the one who have been comparing Mount with Grealish, Maddison etc!

Is Mount's end product good/consistent? No. Should he be doing better? Yes. Am I wrong in saying that? No, especially when you have pointed it our yourself as well. That's all I have been saying! He's part of the problem why we're malfunctioning in attack. 

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1 hour ago, Jason said:

e87d01bb8fcc8c506a0449dfdc3366a0.gif

I don't know why you guys keep on throwing the comparison at me. Am not the one who have been comparing Mount with Grealish, Maddison etc!

Is Mount's end product good/consistent? No. Should he be doing better? Yes. Am I wrong in saying that? No, especially when you have pointed it our yourself as well. That's all I have been saying! He's part of the problem why we're malfunctioning in attack. 

I know its more just to link the stat you mentioned and add the comparison, more for others who keep constantly making the comparison.

Perhaps but theres other attackers who can also do more. Unfortunately its just Mount people chose to focus on for end product when its quite clear we wouldn’t get into some of the positions without the other things he brings. Him and Callum’s combinations v Atletico for example were very promising and its a shame the final balls never worked out. 

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'I'm someone who wants to prove people wrong': Mason Mount on answering his critics, working under 'passionate' Thomas Tuchel at Chelsea and playing at Euro 2020 with his best mate Declan Rice

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9307697/Mason-Mount-says-learnt-lot-Frank-Lampard-dismisses-claims-hes-teachers-pet.html

There is not much that can shock Mason Mount. Throw what you like at him, there’s a strong likelihood he has heard it all before. 

After all, if you’ve been raised hanging around the dressing rooms of the Southern League, trying to listen in on your dad’s team talks, it’s unlikely that harsh words from any critic will come as a huge surprise.

Mount laughs at the memory. Since he was a toddler, his dad, Tony, had brought him along to watch the non-League team of which he was manager. ‘I won’t be able to say too much about what he said,’ says Mount, grinning. ‘It’s probably very explicit!’

Mum, Debbie, kept him shielded from the worst of it. ‘She wouldn’t let me go in the dressing-room at half-time. She knew what my dad’s like as a manager. He got a bit heated and feisty!

‘He’s told me some great stories about late winners in games, winning cup games against a higher team where they have no chance, winning the national leagues, fights that have happened in the game. That’s what non-League is about. That’s what happens!’

Mount, though, was in his element. He was two years old when he was first at the games, clutching a football, wandering around with his mum in tow. ‘I would have loved it, being in and around it. Tough games and tackles flying in, red cards ... that atmosphere has enhanced my love of the game.’

Mount also had an early taste of overseas football. ‘Dad was a manager at Newport, over on the Isle of Wight. I remember going from Portsmouth on the hovercraft to the Isle of Wight for games with my mum. It was a home game but an away day for us!’

The young man dictating the rhythm of the game against Atletico Madrid on Tuesday night in a Champions League victory really was born to this. On Sunday he’ll likely start against Manchester United. He’s more than the academy protege now. He’s growing into being a key part of Thomas Tuchel’s Chelsea.

Though unambiguously tied to Chelsea since he was six, his first love was Portsmouth and his introduction to the top leagues came when he was taken to Fratton Park, one of the most evocative grounds in football, where you can almost smell the history.

‘I remember we sat on the side where the dugouts are and, it being an older stadium, there was a big pole in the stand and I was sat straight behind it. So I was trying to look around it and catching glimpses of the players!’

These were the Harry Redknapp glory days, before the descent into administration and down the divisions. ‘With all those players they had, I loved it. They are my first team and the team I support and follow. It means a lot to me.’

The outstanding memory from his childhood is the 2008 FA Cup final, the day Portsmouth beat Cardiff, when Mount was nine years old.

‘My dad took me, it was an unbelievable atmosphere and such a celebration when they won. I don’t remember too much from the game but I remember the feeling of walking out [in the crowd] at Wembley to a packed FA Cup final. It was something I’d never seen before. I was in awe of everything. I remember my dad saying: “Hopefully you’ll be down there one day playing in front of all these people.” Then a few years down the line, it’s really happened. It’s unbelievable.’

Mount’s tale is a little Roy of the Rovers. You get the impression that while that line will have been uttered by thousands of dads to thousands of sons over the years, the Mounts had genuine belief in the ultimate outcome.

In an era in which they had given up on fairy tales at the Chelsea academy, where no one had graduated to be a first-team regular since John Terry in 1998, Mount is the leading light of a generation that has finally broken the mould.

His dad famously once told him that he might be better off elsewhere as no one comes through from the Chelsea academy. 

Mount, something of a prodigy in the youth set-up, simply told him he was staying and that he would be the one to buck to the trend. Privately he must have worried about his prospects as he saw talents come, go on loan and disappear into the vortex of the lower leagues? ‘No, I don’t think I ever was. I never felt like: “This is not going to happen, I’m not going to make it.” I was just so very focused and driven to make it.

‘My development at every age group was good. If I was playing in one age group, I always wanted to play the year above. And then it came to the stage where I was in the [Under-] 23s and I needed that extra push.’ He went to Vitesse Arnhem for a year and then to Derby, under Frank Lampard.

‘I went to Holland and had a good season where I learned a lot about a different type of football. And then going to the Championship. We all know what that’s like, how tough it is. And that added a different part to my game. And then back to Chelsea and giving it a really good go. And it just happened.’

It happened under Lampard’s return and therein lies a multitude of conspiracy theories. Somehow it was assumed that Mount wasn’t playing on merit but that he was a favourite of the manager and his assistant, Jody Morris, who had nurtured Mount in the academy. 

Some called him a teacher’s pet. No matter that England manager Gareth Southgate clearly saw what Lampard did too. As does, after a wobbly start, Tuchel. Mount has had to fight twice over, for his place in the team and to convince outsiders he deserved it.

‘I never really looked into that kind of stuff where people say [that],’ he says. ‘Frank added a lot to my game and helped me go to the Championship, learning that kind of football and then bringing me back to Chelsea. I learnt a lot. And now it’s a different kind of learning under a different manager. For me, at 22, to learn off these different managers with different views of football, it’s only adding to me and making me better and better.’

The Tuchel era got off to an uncertain start when he was dropped, along with Tammy Abraham and Reece James, for the first game against Wolves. Lampard’s great academy experiment appeared to have come to an abrupt end. ‘I’ve never experienced a managerial change in my career so it was different. I’ve seen it from afar, in the academy. But you don’t really know what it feels like until you’re in it.

‘It’s very difficult. You know what I’m like, I want to play every single game. But, with the new manager coming in, I understood that he went for experience [against Wolves]. We had a chat and I understood what his view was and that really helped me moving on. I knew I just had to keep working hard and show him what I can do. 

'Obviously now I have played or started mostly every game. He just said: “Keep working hard, I’ve seen you only for one session and I’m very happy so don’t let your head drop.” And that’s something I wouldn’t do anyway. I’m always someone who wants to strive to prove someone wrong or show something that maybe they haven’t seen.’

Last weekend, Tuchel demonstrated his more ruthless side with his substitution of Callum Hudson-Odoi after 31 minutes. You have the impression that he doesn’t leave the Chelsea players in any doubt as to how he feels or what he requires. ‘He’s very passionate,’ says Mount. ‘When he came in, we had a meeting, we had training and we had one day before a game and everyone knew their role with the team.

‘It was very clear what he wanted. The players understand what a new manager wants and what his goal of playing is, what he wants off the ball, what he wants on the ball, what kind of movement. He made it very easy to understand. We’ve been learning more and more.’

As for the impending death of the academy kids under Tuchel, there’s been a plot twist. Mount and Hudson-Odoi, notwithstanding the substitution fiasco, have been regulars, James is featuring and Tammy Abraham has made four starts. 

Mount enjoys the memory of last season’s 5-2 win at Wolves, which was a coming of age party for the Chelsea kids: Fikayo Tomori, scored with an extraordinary long-range strike, Abraham, assisted by Mount, got a hat-trick and Mount scored the fifth.

‘I have good memories of that game, with me, Tam and Fik all scoring … I think it was Fik’s first goal and what a goal! It was brilliant for us as younger boys, experiencing that together. I’ve come through with Fik, Tam, Reece and Cal. 

'Seeing Fik start his first game or me play with Tam, watching Tam score his first hat-trick and Reece scoring in the Champions League … it was a special year for us younger boys and I feel we helped each other.’

For Mount, it wasn’t enough. He acknowledged that there were weeks when his performances didn’t quite match his high standards, that he risked being inconsistent. ‘I’m definitely someone who really looks at the game and studies what I do at the end of a season. I looked at some of the performances and games where I did have dips, maybe a couple in a row where maybe I didn’t have a big impact.

‘That was something I looked at coming into this season, where I need to get better. That was a big focus of mine, speaking to my dad as well, at the end of last season. I feel like I have implemented it and been doing well but feel there’s room for improvement. 

'I’m definitely not content with just playing well or having good games. I want to do more. I’m happy but I’m not happy until I keep getting better and better and I’m at that stage where I know I can.

‘A lot of it probably comes down to experience. It’s only my second season in the first team. That first season, I was very happy with how it went and was buzzing to be in the team and how many games I played and what I achieved. I was too over-excited at times and wanted to do too much and it probably wasn’t coming off. 

'It’s just going back to basics when you’re going through a tough time. You don’t need to try those passes which are tough and won’t probably come off. Go back to keeping the ball and when you don’t have the ball, work hard.

AND that’s something I probably didn’t do as well last season. I probably went through some times ... where I wasn’t at the level I wanted to be. [This season] I’m a bit more relaxed. Because I’ve had that year of being in the Premier League and know what it feels like.’

His ambitions are clear. They won a fair few FA Youth Cups at Chelsea but Mount and his contemporaries will know that they have made the final step up when they’re clutching a major trophy. ‘Definitely, that’s all of our goals and I feel like I won’t really be happy until we achieve that. We need to be setting our targets at that vision of wanting to win Premier Leagues, wanting to win trophies, wanting to win the Champions League.

‘I feel like with the group we have, we can definitely do it. We’re very hungry to achieve it, very driven. With the older players, they have been there, done that had have that experience for us younger boys to feed off, to have little chats here and there and [ask]; “What’s winning at the highest level really like?” It really helps us. We want to achieve it and especially at a big club we’ve all come through at.’

For now, the top four, the FA Cup and the Champions League are the immediate goals. Another prize looms large though, the prospect of playing at Wembley in the delayed Euro 2020 tournament his summer, alongside his childhood friend, Declan Rice, whom he forged a lifelong bond with at Chelsea, until the academy let Rice go to West Ham.

Rice was on the pitch when Mount made his England debut against Bulgaria last season, their families sat in the stands together. Sadly there were no fans when they partnered each other in midfield in the 4-0 win over Iceland, with both scoring. But it was a lovely moment to see childhood friends fulfil boyhood dreams together.

‘Me and Dec, we’re just best mates, so to do something like play for England, both score and both partner each other in midfield, that’s something we never thought about or realised we could do.

‘It’s a crazy thing to think about. Growing up together ... going round each other’s house, having sleepovers is just what we’ve done since we’ve been young. Now we’re achieving, playing for our country and, with a big Euros coming up, hopefully having the chance to play in that. It’s crazy the journey we’ve been on, different journeys, different routes. It’s something you could make a movie out of or do a book.’

Best mates they may be, but there’s one area in which he will give no ground. With West Ham’s fine form, there’s a danger Rice will finish above Mount in the table. Mount’s response is instructive. He can’t allow that to happen. 

‘I can’t stress that enough,’ he says. ‘He wouldn’t let me live that down.’ Friendship, after all, has its limits.

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Rare consistency for a young player. He is our best attacker by far right now. If he learns how to play vertical through balls i will do a complete 180° on him.

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19 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Absolutely fantastic. Again. 

Just waiting for someone to say he was average though, theres always one 🤣

It's the end of the world when even @NikkiCFC has been converted. 🤣

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What a player! He is already so much better than he was last season. Can't wait to see what's in store for him in the years to come.

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8 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Absolutely fantastic. Again. 

Just waiting for someone to say he was average though, theres always one 🤣

Well he will always remain Average for us :)

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13 hours ago, Henrique said:

Mount is becoming a real player under Tuchel. 

Yes because he is Lampard's son 🤣

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I was wrong about him not being our best attacking midfielder, he clearly is heads and shoulders above the rest. He did exactly what I asked of him and that's being more productive in the final third!

What a player he could become, if he continues to play like this.

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soooo many awful takes on mount in the last few pages lol.

"Mason Mount has scored 12 and assisted 8 goals in the Premier League for #Chelsea. He’s the second-youngest player to reach 20 goals and assists for the club in the Premier League after only Arjen Robben. [via @premierleague]" tweet
(and mount played around half of those games in central midfield too)
 
 
"Shot Creating Actions
1. Mount = 109
2. Werner = 59
3. Ziyech/Reece = 46
 
Excluding Corners & FK’s
1. Mount = 72
2. Werner = 59
3. Reece = 44
 
Shot Creating Actions Per 90
 
1. Ziyech = 5.73 (722 mins)
2. CHO = 4.81 (823 mins)
3. Mount = 4.79 (2,047 mins)
4. Pulisic = 3.56 (987 mins)
5. Werner = 2.88 (1843 mins)"

 

People put expectations on him way and above other players who are/should be in their prime but regularly play awful yet receive much less criticism. He was a top 2 player for us last season and is by far the best performing player for us this season... He is a 7/10 at minimum each game and often times closer to an 8/10 (and going by average player ratings per game on various stats sites, he is by far our best player).

As to the grealish comparisons, at 22 years old (mount’s current age), grealish was putting up 3g5a in the championship lmao... Not to mention that mount last year at 20/21yo in his first ever PL season had virtually the same stats in the PL as grealish (mount had 7g6a and grealish had 8g6a, and mount was being moved all over the pitch and played in central midfield a lot). Give the kid some time and stop demanding perfection from him, it’s getting ridiculous. He is by far our best presser (something tuchel loves for his system), he has a great shot on him, is amazing at set pieces, links the play between defence and attack brilliantly, is amazing at creating shots for others (among the best in PL) as well as chances (also among the best in PL among top players in their prime like fernandes, de bruyne etc)... Yes he takes corners/set pieces and some of the chances come from those but that is also the case for fernandes, de bruyne and others but they don’t get slated for that (funny how that works lol).

So many legends of the game rate him very highly (JT, Ash Cole, Lineker, roy keane, etc), so many top managers rate him very highly too from tuchel to klopp to others, the stats show he’s amazing but listing through the last few pages you’d think he’s an absolute bum. People asked if we’d want buy him if he was available, a 22 yr old stud and and star in the making who does everything on the pitch? no shit we would want to buy him lol (Klopp said two days ago he's for sure a 60M pound + player already). Some people need a reality check when it comes to their understanding of what constitutes a great player...He is here to stay and will be a key part of the team for years to come, no matter how many people on here and on twitter slate him unfairly.

Edited by oldportblue
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