19. Mason Mount

[Tomo 20,224]

Remember when he was only playing cause he was blackmailing Lampard and a 'proper' manager was going to drop him?

Good times! 

[OneMoSalah 7,307]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

Remember when he was only playing cause he was blackmailing Lampard and a 'proper' manager was going to drop him?

Good times! 

Best player for us again by a mile. If he could just be a bit more proficient in front of goal and take a wee bit more care with his final pass his place in the team wouldnt be in doubt. Although he does many other things that helps the team and he will probably always be under appreciated. He will go from Lampard’s son to Tuchel’s son in some peoples eyes...

[Jason 42,338]

1 minute ago, OneMoSalah said:

Although he does many other things that helps the team and he will probably always be under appreciated.

Same could be said about some other players...

[OneMoSalah 7,307]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

Same could be said about some other players...

True but what I like about him is he takes responsibility in the final third. He doesn’t  always have the final pass but he’s wanting to make things happen and takes risks. Once he irons out his final output in terms of final pass and his shooting, people will appreciate his value much more. 

His general play is good though, he is pretty well rounded, he also works hard and I know people don’t see that as a huge quality but in modern day football pressing the ball when you lose it is so common and so important now. We wont see him being subbed off like CHO was for something to do with poor energy in counter pressing or whatever TT said it was. 

[King Kante 695]

2 hours ago, Tomo said:

Remember when he was only playing cause he was blackmailing Lampard and a 'proper' manager was going to drop him?

Good times! 

Well said. 

[Jason 42,338]

18 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

True but what I like about him is he takes responsibility in the final third. He doesn’t  always have the final pass but he’s wanting to make things happen and takes risks. Once he irons out his final output in terms of final pass and his shooting, people will appreciate his value much more. 

His general play is good though, he is pretty well rounded, he also works hard and I know people don’t see that as a huge quality but in modern day football pressing the ball when you lose it is so common and so important now. We wont see him being subbed off like CHO was for something to do with poor energy in counter pressing or whatever TT said it was. 

Mount might have the potential to be great but I feel like he's been overhyped/overrated way beyond his current ability right now. 

And was just thinking earlier, if this Mount had come through the academy at another club, would we go gaga and want to buy him for say 30, 40, 50 million now? 

[DDA 7,368]

39 minutes ago, Jason said:

Mount might have the potential to be great but I feel like he's been overhyped/overrated way beyond his current ability right now. 

And was just thinking earlier, if this Mount had come through the academy at another club, would we go gaga and want to buy him for say 30, 40, 50 million now? 

Not before but if he plays like he did yesterday... the top clubs would certainly be looking at his progress. With performances like that, he is playing within the same bracket as Greilish.

[Jason 42,338]

18 minutes ago, DDA said:

Not before but if he plays like he did yesterday... the top clubs would certainly be looking at his progress. With performances like that, he is playing within the same bracket as Greilish.

Maybe but he's still lacking so much in the final third. At the moment, you could say he's bit like Willian. Puts in a lot of effort but becomes absolute braindead in the final third. 

[NikkiCFC 5,759]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

Maybe but he's still lacking so much in the final third. At the moment, you could say he's bit like Willian. Puts in a lot of effort but becomes absolute braindead in the final third. 

Another similarity to Willian is that he is our best player when we are worst probably because of that work rate. Yesterday, last month with Lampard. Willian was also our best player when we finished 10th.

[Tomo 20,224]

3 hours ago, DDA said:

Not before but if he plays like he did yesterday... the top clubs would certainly be looking at his progress. With performances like that, he is playing within the same bracket as Greilish.

I wouldn't say that at the moment but what people conveniently miss out when using Grealish as a stick to beat Mount with is when the former was Mason's age he was breaking the PL record for consecutive defeats and "starring" in one of the worst PL teams of all time.

[Atomiswave 5,533]

21 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I wouldn't say that at the moment but what people conveniently miss out when using Grealish as a stick to beat Mount with is when the former was Mason's age he was breaking the PL record for consecutive defeats and "starring" in one of the worst PL teams of all time.

If Mount played for lets say United, the media would haul him as a great Eng player already.

[DDA 7,368]

33 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I wouldn't say that at the moment but what people conveniently miss out when using Grealish as a stick to beat Mount with is when the former was Mason's age he was breaking the PL record for consecutive defeats and "starring" in one of the worst PL teams of all time.

And he still shone in that hurrendous Villa side. Would Mount? We will never know. Imagine Grealish playing here with better players around him... I'm sure he would look even better.

[Mana 4,496]

4 hours ago, DDA said:

Not before but if he plays like he did yesterday... the top clubs would certainly be looking at his progress. 

Maybe you're right, you just have to look at Harry Maguire.

Personally if Mount was playing for a different club, would I want him? No. He's just a hardworker with no end product.

Edited February 21 by Mana

[DDA 7,368]

11 hours ago, Mana said:

Maybe you're right, you just have to look at Harry Maguire.

Personally if Mount was playing for a different club, would I want him? No. He's just a hardworker with no end product.

I wouldn't say 'no' end product.. but very inconsistent, yes. 

If he can sort out that part of his game, we have a real player on our hands but still... he is outshining all of the other 'youth' products this season.

[Stats 6,571]

Imagine writing off a 22 year old who has played almost every game for us and been probably our best player. People will say it is not clear cut chances or a lot of the chances created are from corners, but he is in the top 5 in league for chances created. Look at the piece of play he done against Southampton where he went past 2-3 players and crossed the ball in with his weaker foot and James failed to score, which he really should have.

Bruno Fernandes arguably one of the best midfielders in the world, at the age between 20-23 was at Udinese for a couple of seasons and then went Sampdoria for a season and played over 30 games during those seasons and never racked up more than 5 goals or assists in one single season. Can you imagine anyone thought he would be as good as he is now? I can't believe some of the criticism I see on him sometimes.

No end product is nonsense. He is leading by example at his age at a club where we have spent millions but both managers we have had in charge have continued to play him. He has flaws that any 22 year old will have, but he will get better and I can only imagine a few years time, how good he will be.

[Jason 42,338]

10 minutes ago, Stats said:

Imagine writing off a 22 year old who has played almost every game for us and been probably our best player. People will say it is not clear cut chances or a lot of the chances created are from corners, but he is in the top 5 in league for chances created. Look at the piece of play he done against Southampton where he went past 2-3 players and crossed the ball in with his weaker foot and James failed to score, which he really should have.

Personally, I'm not writing him off but it's clear that there are fans who seem to overhype/overrate him way beyond his current abilities right now. 

Am not one to just stupidly dismiss chances created from corners or take it for granted, especially after having witnessed Willian taking them for years, but think Mount being in Top 5 for chances created is kinda misleading. I don't have the exact numbers right now but how many chances has Mount created from open play and how many from set pieces? The ability to create chances for open play and the ability to create chances from set pieces are two different things. The former is the one that separates the best from the rest. That's down to a player's vision, creativity, passing and that knack of picking out passes that not many others can. The latter is down to basically accuracy of the delivery more than anything else from a dead ball situation. It's good that Mount is good and improving on set pieces but what we want to see from him is to creating chances from open play. Why do you think people praise players like De Bruyne, David Silva, Fabregas, Xavi, Iniesta etc? It's because of their ability on the ball and ability to create chances from open play. It's not because of chances created from set pieces. 

And yes, that James opportunity is valid and he should have scored but that's just 1 example from the game. One could easily pick out a moment like that from Willian but no one will sit here and say he's creative, no?

22 minutes ago, Stats said:

No end product is nonsense. He is leading by example at his age at a club where we have spent millions but both managers we have had in charge have continued to play him. He has flaws that any 22 year old will have, but he will get better and I can only imagine a few years time, how good he will be.

How is Mount not having end product nonsense? Lampard spoke about it a lot - e.g. wanting him to get into the box more and score more goals - and Tuchel mentioned after the Southampton as well, saying Mount did a lot of good things to create dangerous moments but the final ball was lacking. Even Mount has said it himself before.

Mount is playing a lot because he does the other stuff right - e.g. the effort, the energy, tactical reasons - but it's clear that his end product isn't there. Mount leading by example with the performances is totally different from having no end product. 

Mount is decent right now and may well go to become a great player but if this Mount had come through the academy at another club, would we go gaga and want to buy him for say 30, 40, 50 million now? And also, if by miracle everyone in the team is fit and firing, would Mount start ahead of CHO, Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz under Tuchel? 

[Stats 6,571]

10 hours ago, Jason said:

Personally, I'm not writing him off but it's clear that there are fans who seem to overhype/overrate him way beyond his current abilities right now. 

Am not one to just stupidly dismiss chances created from corners or take it for granted, especially after having witnessed Willian taking them for years, but think Mount being in Top 5 for chances created is kinda misleading. I don't have the exact numbers right now but how many chances has Mount created from open play and how many from set pieces? The ability to create chances for open play and the ability to create chances from set pieces are two different things. The former is the one that separates the best from the rest. That's down to a player's vision, creativity, passing and that knack of picking out passes that not many others can. The latter is down to basically accuracy of the delivery more than anything else from a dead ball situation. It's good that Mount is good and improving on set pieces but what we want to see from him is to creating chances from open play. Why do you think people praise players like De Bruyne, David Silva, Fabregas, Xavi, Iniesta etc? It's because of their ability on the ball and ability to create chances from open play. It's not because of chances created from set pieces. 

And yes, that James opportunity is valid and he should have scored but that's just 1 example from the game. One could easily pick out a moment like that from Willian but no one will sit here and say he's creative, no?

How is Mount not having end product nonsense? Lampard spoke about it a lot - e.g. wanting him to get into the box more and score more goals - and Tuchel mentioned after the Southampton as well, saying Mount did a lot of good things to create dangerous moments but the final ball was lacking. Even Mount has said it himself before.

Mount is playing a lot because he does the other stuff right - e.g. the effort, the energy, tactical reasons - but it's clear that his end product isn't there. Mount leading by example with the performances is totally different from having no end product. 

Mount is decent right now and may well go to become a great player but if this Mount had come through the academy at another club, would we go gaga and want to buy him for say 30, 40, 50 million now? And also, if by miracle everyone in the team is fit and firing, would Mount start ahead of CHO, Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz under Tuchel? 

Mount is not the most creative but he has a drive, brilliant technique which will get better. His shooting from range is really underrated. Like I say his passing is decent, not the best. He produced that brilliant pass for CHO against Rennes which he needs to do more but that will come. Even Grealish struggled to necessarily carve through oppositions at the same age playing in the Championship. Few years down the line, he has worked on his technique, passing, dribbling. Mount will get there. He already has brilliant stamina, movement, technique. I think he is brilliant all round midfielder. 

I was referring to the comment about him being a 'hardworker with no end product'. He isnt just simply a hardworker with no end product. He contributed more goals than most people his age last season in the same area. Like I say Fernandes was no way near world class at that age. There are many other examples too of players who are top class now and were unknown at the same age. He can be inconsistent like @DDAsaid but for me he is a young player who needs to work on his end product. But that also means other players in the team stepping up too.

Well when you have so many quality players, I would expect rotation more often. So I wouldn't expect him to be a guaranteed starter but to get a lot of game time.

[Jason 42,338]

1 hour ago, Stats said:

Mount is not the most creative but he has a drive, brilliant technique which will get better. His shooting from range is really underrated. Like I say his passing is decent, not the best. He produced that brilliant pass for CHO against Rennes which he needs to do more but that will come. Even Grealish struggled to necessarily carve through oppositions at the same age playing in the Championship. Few years down the line, he has worked on his technique, passing, dribbling. Mount will get there. He already has brilliant stamina, movement, technique. I think he is brilliant all round midfielder. 

I was referring to the comment about him being a 'hardworker with no end product'. He isnt just simply a hardworker with no end product. He contributed more goals than most people his age last season in the same area. Like I say Fernandes was no way near world class at that age. There are many other examples too of players who are top class now and were unknown at the same age. He can be inconsistent like @DDAsaid but for me he is a young player who needs to work on his end product. But that also means other players in the team stepping up too.

Well when you have so many quality players, I would expect rotation more often. So I wouldn't expect him to be a guaranteed starter but to get a lot of game time.

Yes, Mount has the tools to potentially be great and I don't really disagree with you there but think the issue, as mentioned before, is that fans seem to overhype/overrate him way beyond his current abilities right now. He's decent/good but definitely not world class now. Any little good thing that Mount does, you have people going super gaga over it (maybe not here but certainly on places like Twitter), like it's the greatest thing in the world. If someone like Kovacic does it, the reaction is more muted.

Also, answer this hypothetical question... 

11 hours ago, Jason said:

if this Mount had come through the academy at another club, would we go gaga and want to buy him for say 30, 40, 50 million now?

Don't be biased.

[Blue Armour 3,085]

On 20/02/2021 at 15:11, OneMoSalah said:

True but what I like about him is he takes responsibility in the final third. He doesn’t  always have the final pass but he’s wanting to make things happen and takes risks. Once he irons out his final output in terms of final pass and his shooting, people will appreciate his value much more. 

His general play is good though, he is pretty well rounded, he also works hard and I know people don’t see that as a huge quality but in modern day football pressing the ball when you lose it is so common and so important now. We wont see him being subbed off like CHO was for something to do with poor energy in counter pressing or whatever TT said it was. 

The most annoying is how a lot of people compare his output to players like Maddison (age 24) and Grealish (age 25), and use that as a stick to beat him down.

To me, Mount has the necessary tools, the time and the attitude to reach those levels.

More importantly he seems to also have that same kind of endurance that Lampard had as a player. An underrated quality which you value only when you look at players like Pulisic who end up being missing for nearly 2/3'rds of the season.

Edited February 22 by Blue Armour

[coolhead23 1,076]

Mason Mount for me the prefect (nearly) squad player someone who is needed in a team. He is someone who would be a manager's delight because he offers something in all positions but for fans he would always he doesnt specializes in anything. 

At 22, he definitely has the right attitude, drive & determination to succeed. He remind of a young Lampard and maybe would have the same path to success.