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19. Mason Mount


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1 minute ago, killer1257 said:

I watched Milenkovic in their last match and defending wise, he looked clueless. So l am now not convinced if he is ready for it. Maybe I watch him again next match. He scored though from a corner kick.

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plenty of other options to slot in that LCB spot if he is not up to it

the 5 games or so I watched him this year he was really good in four, and one was meh

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It is 2020 and people still think Barkley will become good...

Scored a hattrick tonight and made an assist for Vitesse in their Europa League playoff match against Ado Den Haag. What a season this lad is having. I think that is double figures for both goals and

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On 27.7.2020 at 11:34 AM, Vesper said:

technically he did, as Reece was an overlapping wingback

but Mount drifts centrally no matter where he starts out

Lamps' 3 4 3 and 3 5 2 are pretty fluid

far more so than Conte's rigidity

I still want to see my cray 3 1 3 3 tried out in a friendly, lolol (with Kante or Rice as the roaming sweeper 1 in front of the 3 CB's)

 

GK Predrag or whoever we end up with

RCB Klostermann (where he plays for Leipzig)

MCB Rice

LCB Nikola Milenkovic (where he plays for Fiorentina)

Deep Sweeper Kante (Or Rice at sweeper and play Rudiger at MCB or even Tomori if he finally progresses OR in my dreams, Camavinga there as a ball of lightning in the sweeper area, Rice at MCB still)

LMF Kovacic (can rotate sides with Mount)

RMF Mount (can rotate sides with Kova)

AMF/10 Havertz (and can push higher up on the right with Werner making slashing runs on the left, which frees up Puli and Ziyech even more to create)

LW Pulisic

RW Ziyech

CF Werner

 

I think that could destroy many teams

but it is radical, I do admit

Lamp's super powered brain could figure it out

I have thought it out for years, but never have seen it played live (and I have seen far more radical shit actually played)

 

Love it.Tought about it myself as it accomodates our personnel best and resolves that fullback issue. I think it is not even that improbable we try it out. Barca have used it before in 2012 and 2014.

however, i see two main problems:

Mount and Kovacic would be the tasked with covering the wings in defense. They sure have the engine for that but both are central players and would need a lot of training till they manage that. We would need to operate in the half spaces and channels more which is different to the two approaches Lamps used this season: int he first half we pressed like crazy forced turnovers and then played balls into Mount and Tammy to finish with quick, intricate passing. In the second half we mainly worked free players on the flanks to cross to Giroud, which allowed us to commit fewer players forward, stay more compact and concede fewer chances (still conceded lots of goal bc of Kepa).

Secondly, as all its players are basically central players  the system is super vulnerable to opponents playing a lot of diagonals. Everytime they circulate the ball from left to right, the whole teams has to move horicontally over the pitch which makes it more difficult to engage opponents in pack and will lead to more 1 on 1s which we struggle with. So it will be imperative to stay as much on the ball as possible. and obviously the whole team has to help in defense. Even Werner, Haertz and Ziyech.

If we somehow manage to work it out it could be brutal. we coujld overload opponents easily, press the shit out of them and have tons of creatros and scorers on the pitch at the same time. basically can attack with 6 players who are actually good at it every time instead of needing to use fullbacks with limited crossing aiblity for the overlap.

Also for squad managemend it would be brilliant for our shitload of midfielders. bc so many of them can play varouis positions we could easily rotate, chuck one player in and out without it affecting our style.

 

 

 

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On 7/27/2020 at 5:34 PM, Vesper said:

technically he did, as Reece was an overlapping wingback

but Mount drifts centrally no matter where he starts out

Lamps' 3 4 3 and 3 5 2 are pretty fluid

far more so than Conte's rigidity

I still want to see my cray 3 1 3 3 tried out in a friendly, lolol (with Kante or Rice as the roaming sweeper 1 in front of the 3 CB's)

 

GK Predrag or whoever we end up with

RCB Klostermann (where he plays for Leipzig)

MCB Rice

LCB Nikola Milenkovic (where he plays for Fiorentina)

Deep Sweeper Kante (Or Rice at sweeper and play Rudiger at MCB or even Tomori if he finally progresses OR in my dreams, Camavinga there as a ball of lightning in the sweeper area, Rice at MCB still)

LMF Kovacic (can rotate sides with Mount)

RMF Mount (can rotate sides with Kova)

AMF/10 Havertz (and can push higher up on the right with Werner making slashing runs on the left, which frees up Puli and Ziyech even more to create)

LW Pulisic

RW Ziyech

CF Werner

 

I think that could destroy many teams

but it is radical, I do admit

Lamp's super powered brain could figure it out

I have thought it out for years, but never have seen it played live (and I have seen far more radical shit actually played)

 

3133 is interesting, 

Two question? Who will defend your flank and who will provide width? 

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1 hour ago, communicate said:

3133 is interesting, 

Two question? Who will defend your flank and who will provide width? 

the sweeper is free to follow the flow of play and lend support to either side (RCB or LCB) plus obviously the central CB is going to also slant to that side (to a degree)

also you have the LMF and RMF to also lend lateral support

the width comes naturally from both the LMF/RMF, plus the RW and the LWer

Havertz as the roaming 10 can both provide further width by coming into centre right position (like an old-time inside forward) which allows Werner to also drift a bit more wide if nned be

on defence there would be a lot of rotational movement depending on play flow and ball position, with players rotating over to create more defensive strength and cover gaps

same for the offensive end

triangles and overloads are what thsi 3 1 3 3 is designed to do

and the sweeper is key to provided defensive stoutness

remember you have 3 CB's as well, so right there is width in the final quarter or so of the pitch (the quarter you are defending)

Camavinga (an extraordinary athlete with globally elite mobility and speed) as sweeper and Rice as a the central CB (again far more comfortable on the ball than all but a few CB's, would be massive in moving the ball forward too, as both are technical and very mobile and good on the ball

 

other players this would work for (talking about the either the MCB or the Sweeper role) would be players like, Marquinhos (both), Kimmich (sweeper, as he si too short for a CB), Alaba (both),  Aymeric Laporte (MCB), Diego Carlos (MCB), Lucas Hernández (both, or even LCB, see at the end), Theo Hernández (both, or even LCB, see at the end), Denis Zakaria (sweeper), Thomas Partey (sweeper), Rodri (both), Boubakary Soumaré (sweeper), Sandro Tonali,(sweeper) Florentino (sweeper) and finally Alphonso Davies (sweeper and he also would a fucking terror at LMF, so if you reallllly wanted to go insane (and this is strictly FM, as he will not be sold), swap out Kovacic for Davies at LMF, keep Rice at MCB Mount at RMF, and put Camavinga at sweeper, that press would be arguably the most athletic in history, the speed is just overwhelming, especially IF Tomori ever came good and you toss him for Rice at MCB and maybe we had a different, smaller (than Milenkovic) but faster LCB, like Evan N'Dicka (who is still big at 1.92m but far more pacy) or Lucas or Theo Hernandez (at LCB) Klostermann at RCB is pacy, very pacy.(convetrted  bomber RB)

 

I hope that all helps to clarify

I have put a lot of thought into this over the past 3 or so years

it absolutely needs the right players, but I think it has nuclear bomb potential if it is rolled out with the right players, and if the manger can teach it (and believes in it)

it can work like a vastly more athletic 2004 Greece team (in spirit from a 'Wall' mentality and semi resemblance at SOME (not all) defensive inflection points) BUT with exponentially better fluidity, offensive firepower and especially players

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Vesper said:

the sweeper is free to follow the flow of play and lend support to either side (RCB or LCB) plus obviously the central CB is going to also slant to that side (to a degree)

also you have the LMF and RMF to also lend lateral support

the width comes naturally from both the LMF/RMF, plus the RW and the LWer

Havertz as the roaming 10 can both provide further width by coming into centre right position (like an old-time inside forward) which allows Werner to also drift a bit more wide if nned be

on defence there would be a lot of rotational movement depending on play flow and ball position, with players rotating over to create more defensive strength and cover gaps

same for the offensive end

triangles and overloads are what thsi 3 1 3 3 is designed to do

and the sweeper is key to provided defensive stoutness

remember you have 3 CB's as well, so right there is width in the final quarter or so of the pitch (the quarter you are defending)

Camavinga (an extraordinary athlete with globally elite mobility and speed) as sweeper and Rice as a the central CB (again far more comfortable on the ball than all but a few CB's, would be massive in moving the ball forward too, as both are technical and very mobile and good on the ball

 

other players this would work for (talking about the either the MCB or the Sweeper role) would be players like, Marquinhos (both), Kimmich (sweeper, as he si too short for a CB), Alaba (both),  Aymeric Laporte (MCB), Diego Carlos (MCB), Lucas Hernández (both, or even LCB, see at the end), Theo Hernández (both, or even LCB, see at the end), Denis Zakaria (sweeper), Thomas Partey (sweeper), Rodri (both), Boubakary Soumaré (sweeper), Sandro Tonali,(sweeper) Florentino (sweeper) and finally Alphonso Davies (sweeper and he also would a fucking terror at LMF, so if you reallllly wanted to go insane (and this is strictly FM, as he will not be sold), swap out Kovacic for Davies at LMF, keep Rice at MCB Mount at RMF, and put Camavinga at sweeper, that press would be arguably the most athletic in history, the speed is just overwhelming, especially IF Tomori ever came good and you toss him for Rice at MCB and maybe we had a different, smaller (than Milenkovic) but faster LCB, like Evan N'Dicka (who is still big at 1.92m but far more pacy) or Lucas or Theo Hernandez (at LCB) Klostermann at RCB is pacy, very pacy.(convetrted  bomber RB)

 

I hope that all helps to clarify

I have put a lot of thought into this over the past 3 or so years

it absolutely needs the right players, but I think it has nuclear bomb potential if it is rolled out with the right players, and if the manger can teach it (and believes in it)

it can work like a vastly more athletic 2004 Greece team (in spirit from a 'Wall' mentality and semi resemblance at SOME (not all) defensive inflection points) BUT with exponentially better fluidity, offensive firepower and especially players

 

 

 

If you ask one of your side cb to protect the wing, first he need to be comfortable defending the flank more (fb experience needed), then you need your opposite cm to drop into the box as 3rd cb, so he also need to be comfortable defending the box. 

IMO, it is very2 difficult to implement due to having too many rotation especially defensively. 

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51 minutes ago, communicate said:

If you ask one of your side cb to protect the wing, first he need to be comfortable defending the flank more (fb experience needed), then you need your opposite cm to drop into the box as 3rd cb, so he also need to be comfortable defending the box. 

IMO, it is very2 difficult to implement due to having too many rotation especially defensively. 

watch Pep's best teams, and you will see hyper complicated rotational play and literally in-flow complete (and so fluid) offence-to-defence and def-to-off formational switching/morphing

also look at the players I put in my 3 1 3 3 

exactly what you are describing in terms of positional experience and attributes

I love multi positional capable players

that should have been evident from my multi-year postings

if I could snap my fingers and make myself a manager (with the vision of a previous manager enabling me) I would be a female version of Rinus Michels

this formation is very close to what I envision

20addfab727ff2988f54932f13b36a0c.png

b5839731577cf3e02f1ef05f045e5258.png 

(plus the rest of 1995)

0148259483118f4dc9887fe97f394e72.png

1de5d3f35da13b63cd4b7dcfee790f70.png

496a43a728b335d064a7df31aba6d805.png

 

Bloodlines of Rinus

ImageJohan Cruyff on Twitter: "Congratulations to Pep Guardiola on ...Pep Guardiola: Nothing Compares to Johan Cruyff's Football Legacy

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3 hours ago, Jason said:

He really is Lampard's son. :ph34r:

But even all this can be justified with many things. Derby just a Championship side, RLC injured all year, Barkley being Barkley, transitional year...

It will be interesting next season when we have Havertz, Ziyech, fully fit Ruben... I am sure he will still get plenty of game time, after all Frank would rather play him as a winger than Callum and Pedro.

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But even all this can be justified with many things. Derby just a Championship side, RLC injured all year, Barkley being Barkley, transitional year...
It will be interesting next season when we have Havertz, Ziyech, fully fit Ruben... I am sure he will still get plenty of game time, after all Frank would rather play him as a winger than Callum and Pedro.
I see Kovacic sitting on the bench next season and Mount playing almost every match [emoji23]

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I see Kovacic sitting on the bench next season and Mount playing almost every match [emoji23]

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Don't do that to me.

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18 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

I see Kovacic sitting on the bench next season and Mount playing almost every match emoji23.png

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Why not? Kova is great at ball carrying but output is so poor.

If kante remains fit, then why not have 2 no.8s to push teams further and further back. And that too, 2 goal scoring no.8s. seems like a good situation.

Specially since one of that no. 8 is kai and another is one of our top 3 player of the season.

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3 hours ago, Jason said:

He really is Lampard's son. :ph34r:

Well, he does take after his father a lot. Hope he reaches that status. 21 years old and one of the best players in the club. Take a bow son!!!!

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3 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Why not? Kova is great at ball carrying but output is so poor.

If kante remains fit, then why not have 2 no.8s to push teams further and further back. And that too, 2 goal scoring no.8s. seems like a good situation.

Specially since one of that no. 8 is kai and another is one of our top 3 player of the season.

Kante needs to be sold ASAP (or swapped)

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9 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Why not? Kova is great at ball carrying but output is so poor.

And that too, 2 goal scoring no.8s. seems like a good situation.

Mount had 2 goals in 37 games between Southampton in early October and United FA cup semi final (thanks DDG) 10 days ago. 

He had strong start of the season and strong finish but lets not pretend he is consistent goal scoring threat. Also before Wolves one assist from open play all season. 

He is very frustrating player in the final 3rd. More than Willian actually. Speaking of consistency even after the restart he was replaced 2 times on halftime (Sheffield and Leicester) and early in the second half against Liverpool. Three horrific games for him.

Just a cameo against WH, did not play against Norwich. City was also bad offensive game for him. Missed a sitter and did not play easy pass to Puli for goal scoring chance. This is 6 from 11 games after the restart.

In other 5 he has been solid or great like the last game.

 

 

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Why not? Kova is great at ball carrying but output is so poor.
If kante remains fit, then why not have 2 no.8s to push teams further and further back. And that too, 2 goal scoring no.8s. seems like a good situation.
Specially since one of that no. 8 is kai and another is one of our top 3 player of the season.


Why not? Kova is great at ball carrying but output is so poor.
If kante remains fit, then why not have 2 no.8s to push teams further and further back. And that too, 2 goal scoring no.8s. seems like a good situation.
Specially since one of that no. 8 is kai and another is one of our top 3 player of the season.


Iniesta's output was poor too, but still one of the greatest midfielders ever because he had insane creativity and dribbling abilities.

Actually, I hope Lamps sees Kai as a no. 10, RW or false 9. Paying 100 mio. Euros for Havertz and letting him play in his weakest position would be a mistake.

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21 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

 

 

 


Iniesta's output was poor too, but still one of the greatest midfielders ever because he had insane creativity and dribbling abilities.

Actually, I hope Lamps sees Kai as a no. 10, RW or false 9. Paying 100 mio. Euros for Havertz and letting him play in his weakest position would be a mistake.

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Come on bro. Let's not compare Iniesta and kova. I like kova, but his control of the game, orchestrating the plays is no way near to that level. So I honestly don't think that comparison/argument is valid. 

Point, is I don't get the idea why mount starting is an issue here. He has been one of our players of the season, at an age of 21 and only going to improve. If that is seen as a negative, then there is something majorly wrong with the fanbase 

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45 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Mount had 2 goals in 37 games between Southampton in early October and United FA cup semi final (thanks DDG) 10 days ago. 

He had strong start of the season and strong finish but lets not pretend he is consistent goal scoring threat. Also before Wolves one assist from open play all season. 

He is very frustrating player in the final 3rd. More than Willian actually. Speaking of consistency even after the restart he was replaced 2 times on halftime (Sheffield and Leicester) and early in the second half against Liverpool. Three horrific games for him.

Just a cameo against WH, did not play against Norwich. City was also bad offensive game for him. Missed a sitter and did not play easy pass to Puli for goal scoring chance. This is 6 from 11 games after the restart.

In other 5 he has been solid or great like the last game.

 

 

 If we are really breaking down eacg poor decision making in the final 3rd please don't stop at Mount. Need to do it for kova too. For eg - liverpool. 4-3 and on a counter. Goes past a couple of pool players right at the edge of the box, and then plays a simple pass behind alonso, giving taa time to get back, and forcing alonso to go back to Rudi. Please let's do that for each and every play.

Mount also ends the season with 8 goals and 6 assists. How much does kova have?

Damn it, I am seriously stooping to some fans' level. Honestly love kova and voted for him as our player of the season. But if you find mount frustrating then kova should probably make you pull your hair out. Attaching 2 posts showing how highly I rate kova, but the problem is mount is being talked of like he had a poor season. Forget that he is 21, if a new signing had that season, we would be praising him. Fucking hell, jorginho plays a simple pass and everyone is creaming there pants, but this kid is being talked down, like seriously? 14 goals+assists, mainstay of the team, trend setter for our pressing game. Hell proud of the kid.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

 If we are really breaking down eacg poor decision making in the final 3rd please don't stop at Mount. Need to do it for kova too. For eg - liverpool. 4-3 and on a counter. Goes past a couple of pool players right at the edge of the box, and then plays a simple pass behind alonso, giving taa time to get back, and forcing alonso to go back to Rudi. Please let's do that for each and every play.

Mount also ends the season with 8 goals and 6 assists. How much does kova have?

Damn it, I am seriously stooping to some fans' level. Honestly love kova and voted for him as our player of the season. But if you find mount frustrating then kova should probably make you pull your hair out. Attaching 2 posts showing how highly I rate kova, but the problem is mount is being talked of like he had a poor season. Forget that he is 21, if a new signing had that season, we would be praising him. Fucking hell, jorginho plays a simple pass and everyone is creaming there pants, but this kid is being talked down, like seriously? 14 goals+assists, mainstay of the team, trend setter for our pressing game. Hell proud of the kid.

And Barkley has 5g and 5a in 2000 less minutes than Mount. RLC had 10 goals last season in less than 2000 minutes. 6 PL goals and 2 assists in just 982 mins.

I did not start this Kova vs Mount discussion because they are completely different players. With Kai, Timo, Puli and Hakim next season I would rather have two players in pivot behind and Mount cannot play this position. 

I do not expect anything in the final 3rd from guys like Kovacic, Jorginho and Kante tbh. Mount plays as most attacking midfielder or even winger sometimes.

So playing Mount as a starter would also fuck Kai because like someone else said playing him as a number 8 is his weakest position and it would not have any point. 

I am ok with Mount as squad player but our goal is to be better than Pool and City. 

His status this season in the team is for me like Lewis Baker playing 3500-4000 minutes in Chelsea in 17/18 season after amazing season in Vitesse.  But this did not happened because we are Chelsea.

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

And Barkley has 5g and 5a in 2000 less minutes than Mount. RLC had 10 goals last season in less than 2000 minutes. 6 PL goals and 2 assists in just 982 mins.

I did not start this Kova vs Mount discussion because they are completely different players. With Kai, Timo, Puli and Hakim next season I would rather have two players in pivot behind and Mount cannot play this position. 

I do not expect anything in the final 3rd from guys like Kovacic, Jorginho and Kante tbh. Mount plays as most attacking midfielder or even winger sometimes.

So playing Mount as a starter would also fuck Kai because like someone else said playing him as a number 8 is his weakest position and it would not have any point. 

I am ok with Mount as squad player but our goal is to be better than Pool and City. 

His status this season in the team is for me like Lewis Baker playing 3500-4000 minutes in Chelsea in 17/18 season after amazing season in Vitesse.  But this did not happened because we are Chelsea.

 

 

 

 

5 of barkley'a goals/assists are in less than 400 mins of cup play. He has only 5 goals+assists in PL.

Lampard has already shown or given an indication of what he will like to do. 2 no. 8s. Similar to what city has done. Or even pool with wjinaldum and shaqiri/lallana. If he plays that ways I am fine, if he plays with a double pivot with kante and kova, I am fine. I was not the one ridiculing mount in a passive aggressjve way. I can see the benefits of both systems. 

As for kai, you can easily swap kai and ziyech's position. But obviously we are buying kai as a CAM. So his positioning has got nothing at all to do with mount, cause even if we play a double pivot, he will still start as a 10 imo. But no everything is on mount, lol.

Hahahahahahahaha. Lewis Baker. Mother of God. I can argue logically, but not going to try and argue with such an asenine and stupid opinion. Really sorry for the language, but if you compare Baker's Vitesse campaign to mount being one of our best players in a season where CHELSEA FC got top4, then that's exactly what I called it. Mount was in the team when we beat city btw. When we went toe to toe with Liverpool on 2 separate occasions.

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