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Danny Drinkwater


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34 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

We can't seem to beat any club that goes for a player we want, so we're mainly after the next "best" thing at this point. In for Stones, Mendy, Danilo & Lukaku to name a few and walk away with nothing.

Not saying we haven't dodged a bullet or three thanks to this, but the days of us going and getting targets are seemingly a distant memory. Highly doubt Kante would have come here, if it wasn't for the buyout clause.

It's a myth that we could ever sign whichever players we wanted. We were always able to pay inflated fees for players other clubs didn't value particularly highly, but there Have always been targets we missed out on. Many, many of them.

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It's a myth that we could ever sign whichever players we wanted. We were always able to pay inflated fees for players other clubs didn't value particularly highly, but there Have always been targets we missed out on. Many, many of them.
I never said we could sign anyone we wanted in the past, but we could get deals over the line for targets. There just seems to be a lot of deals slipping through our hands for multiple reasons as of that late. All comes down to the people doing the negotiations really.
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Just now, LAM09 said:
8 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:
It's a myth that we could ever sign whichever players we wanted. We were always able to pay inflated fees for players other clubs didn't value particularly highly, but there Have always been targets we missed out on. Many, many of them.

I never said we could sign anyone we wanted in the past, but we could get deals over the line for targets. There just seems to be a lot of deals slipping through our hands for multiple reasons as of that late. All comes down to the people doing the negotiations really.

Understood. My point is that there were always deals which slipped through our fingers, and others which we completed. We don't know how many deals have fallen through this summer, but a number have been confirmed for sure. Meanwhile, we have still managed to sign four senior players.

Right at the beginning of the Roman era we bought Crespo for what was then a heavily inflated fee but Inter would not budge on Vieri, even though we bid more than twice as much for him. We also missed out on Ronaldinho despite offering a higher transfer fee and bigger wages than Barcelona. There are other similar examples down the years, including this year  

In short, the negotiators may have changed, but the situation has not. We can still get some deals over the line, but not some others. Business as usual over the last 15 summers.

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9 hours ago, Jype said:

What people don't seem to understand is that neither Matic nor Chalobah were willing to stick around playing 4th choice and that's why they were sold.

Nate was already on his contract's last year and Matic too had only two years left and wasn't going to renew it so let's say the club kept him somewhat against his will for another season, next summer he'd have been aged 30 with contract running out in a years time so literally no value anymore and there's really no guarantees what kind of performances we'd have gotten from an unmotivated Matic who had asked for a move in the summer but got told to stay put. I understand perfectly why both of those were sold and why the club are now looking elsewhere.

Ideally I'd have kept Chalobah too and I think with CL football coming back this season there would've been enough games for him to be happy and develop but if the lad didn't want to sign the extension and wished to go, there's hardly much the club could do to prevent him.

 

Yes, in all other clubs they can have 1-2 quality back ups, but not in Chelsea. All other clubs can convince their players to stay and sometimes, from time to time be squad players, but not in Chelsea (except Fabregas, for obvious reasons).

Not need to mention that Drinkwater would make our midfield something like Stoke had 3-4 seasons ago.

We earned A LOT, if you look at the net spend and consider about 40 mils for Costa, we didn't spend shit. We should frickin invest it.

Alonso - Drinkwater - Kante - Moses is a midfield for a mid-bottom of a table. We got away with something like this last season, but it will get exposed, and it will be bloody. With Bakayoko's fitness level question and team integration question (still young, somewhat unproved etc) still in the air, who are we to say that this wouldn't be our first choice for a midfield?

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44 minutes ago, El P. said:

Yes, in all other clubs they can have 1-2 quality back ups, but not in Chelsea. All other clubs can convince their players to stay and sometimes, from time to time be squad players, but not in Chelsea (except Fabregas, for obvious reasons).

Not need to mention that Drinkwater would make our midfield something like Stoke had 3-4 seasons ago.

We earned A LOT, if you look at the net spend and consider about 40 mils for Costa, we didn't spend shit. We should frickin invest it.

Alonso - Drinkwater - Kante - Moses is a midfield for a mid-bottom of a table. We got away with something like this last season, but it will get exposed, and it will be bloody. With Bakayoko's fitness level question and team integration question (still young, somewhat unproved etc) still in the air, who are we to say that this wouldn't be our first choice for a midfield?

Oh come on, stop being so fucking dramatic. Let's have a look who the rivals have as backup CMs:

City: Fernando and Fabian Delph the obvious backups. Ilkay Gündogan could be considered a backup too because he's not exactly fit enough to be considered first choice even tho he's pretty good. Don't know about Yaya Toure, maybe he'll be reduced to a backup role this season being 34yo. Also Pep likes his rotation a lot more than Conte, sometimes leading to messy performances all around with needless tinkering.

United: Michael Carrick, Marouane Fellaini, Timothy Fosu-Mensah

Liverpool: Marko Grujic is the only clear backup. Other midfielders (Can, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lallana) all pretty much equal in the pecking order with each of them starting around 25-30 league games a season in a three man midfield. Klopp, much like Guardiola, is known to use a lot of rotation due to the demanding nature of football his team plays.

Arsenal: Mohamed Elneny, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Jack Wilshere. Maybe one of Coquelin/Ramsey too, not sure which Wenger fancies more. 

Spurs: Moussa Sissoko, Harry Winks

 

Now tell me, which of those do you consider to be a significantly better set of backups than Fabregas, Baker and say Drinkwater? I'll grant you City are pretty good all across the field having improved this summer but all the others just scream 'mediocre' to me and not really anything to be worried about.

Fact is, without the extensive use of rotation week-in week-out having established stars as squad players is just impossible and Conte is a manager who mostly sticks to a winning team and only mixes things up in case of injuries or occasionally playing a weakened side at an easier game ahead of a more important fixture. Matic knew his chances would be more limited with the arrival of Bakayoko so he chose to leave and Chalobah at his age couldn't risk another season playing just a few minutes here and there so he left too.

Now new squad players are needed and with the homegrown quota some of the upcoming new signings will have to be HG players, of which there aren't too many available. AOC, Barkley and Drinkwater the obvious candidates and I'm pretty sure we'll end up with at least one of those three and other new arrivals will be foreign players. I have no doubt we'll see another few players coming in before the end of the window and most of those signings will be squad players mostly for the bench so they might seem kinda underwhelming compared to when our rivals are signing better players to be their starters but what you're forgetting is that Chelsea's team core is pretty much already fixed and improved from last season so squad signings are what's needed right now. Still hoping for a big signing to improve the wing-back areas but for central midfield I really can't see another star player joining, and rightly so.

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18 minutes ago, Jype said:

Oh come on, stop being so fucking dramatic. Let's have a look who the rivals have as backup CMs:

City: Fernando and Fabian Delph the obvious backups. Ilkay Gündogan could be considered a backup too because he's not exactly fit enough to be considered first choice even tho he's pretty good. Don't know about Yaya Toure, maybe he'll be reduced to a backup role this season being 34yo. Also Pep likes his rotation a lot more than Conte, sometimes leading to messy performances all around with needless tinkering.

United: Michael Carrick, Marouane Fellaini, Timothy Fosu-Mensah

Liverpool: Marko Grujic is the only clear backup. Other midfielders (Can, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lallana) all pretty much equal in the pecking order with each of them starting around 25-30 league games a season in a three man midfield. Klopp, much like Guardiola, is known to use a lot of rotation due to the demanding nature of football his team plays.

Arsenal: Mohamed Elneny, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Jack Wilshere

Spurs: Moussa Sissoko, Harry Winks

 

Now tell me, which of those do you consider to be a significantly better set of backups than Fabregas, Baker and say Drinkwater? I'll grant you City are pretty good all across the field having improved this summer but all the others just scream 'mediocre' to me and not really anything to be worried about.

Fact is, without the extensive use of rotation week-in week-out having established stars as squad players is just impossible and Conte is a manager who mostly sticks to a winning team and only mixes things up in case of injuries or occasionally playing a weakened side at an easier game ahead of a more important fixture. Matic knew his chances would be more limited with the arrival of Bakayoko so he chose to leave and Chalobah at his age couldn't risk another season playing just a few minutes here and there so he left too.

Now new squad players are needed and with the homegrown quota some of the upcoming new signings will have to be HG players, of which there aren't too many available. AOC, Barkley and Drinkwater the obvious candidates and I'm pretty sure we'll end up with at least one of those three and other new arrivals will be foreign players. I have no doubt we'll see another few players coming in before the end of the window and most of those signings will be squad players mostly for the bench so they might seem kinda underwhelming compared to when our rivals are signing better players to be their starters but what you're forgetting is that Chelsea's team core is pretty much already fixed and improved from last season so squad signings are what's needed right now. Still hoping for a big signing to improve the wing-back areas but for central midfield I really can't see another star player joining, and rightly so.

Backups are not so relevant if United have fit and "integrated" Pogba and Herrera, City KDB/Silva/Fernandinho, Spurs have Dembele and Wanyama (they are very thin on the bench, yes, but they are not spending, neither winning trophies). They can afford backups like that. And I don't want us to be like Arsenal and Liverpool, they are shit so let's not compare ourselves with them. Arsenal with Ramsey/Xaka/Coquelin/Ox/Eleny/Wilshere/Cazorla are not bad actually. Not so good, but not bad either, I rate that midfield same as ours currently, or even more than ours. :)

What do we have? Kante, who is great, but without someone better with the ball alongside him isn't that much. It isn't defensive part of the midfield game that is mostly our problem, it's offensive/midfield controlling. I think having good backup NOW, in Chelsea, is way more important than in other teams. We sold our long time servant, and bought some unfit player which is still unproven. It could be months before he becomes good for us.

Having Pogba, and Carrick for his replacement is awesome, Fellaini for Matić. Hell they can even easily switch to 4-2-3-1 and place Mata as number 10. Having KDB/Silva and Gundo for a replacemant is also awesome. City could also play their fullbacks as CMs, you know Pep.

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14 minutes ago, Jype said:

Oh come on, stop being so fucking dramatic. Let's have a look who the rivals have as backup CMs:

City: Fernando and Fabian Delph the obvious backups. Ilkay Gündogan could be considered a backup too because he's not exactly fit enough to be considered first choice even tho he's pretty good. Don't know about Yaya Toure, maybe he'll be reduced to a backup role this season being 34yo. Also Pep likes his rotation a lot more than Conte, sometimes leading to messy performances all around with needless tinkering.

United: Michael Carrick, Marouane Fellaini, Timothy Fosu-Mensah

Liverpool: Marko Grujic is the only clear backup. Other midfielders (Can, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lallana) all pretty much equal in the pecking order with each of them starting around 25-30 league games a season in a three man midfield. Klopp, much like Guardiola, is known to use a lot of rotation due to the demanding nature of football his team plays.

Arsenal: Mohamed Elneny, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Jack Wilshere. Maybe one of Coquelin/Ramsey too, not sure which Wenger fancies more. 

Spurs: Moussa Sissoko, Harry Winks

 

Now tell me, which of those do you consider to be a significantly better set of backups than Fabregas, Baker and say Drinkwater? I'll grant you City are pretty good all across the field having improved this summer but all the others just scream 'mediocre' to me and not really anything to be worried about.

Fact is, without the extensive use of rotation week-in week-out having established stars as squad players is just impossible and Conte is a manager who mostly sticks to a winning team and only mixes things up in case of injuries or occasionally playing a weakened side at an easier game ahead of a more important fixture. Matic knew his chances would be more limited with the arrival of Bakayoko so he chose to leave and Chalobah at his age couldn't risk another season playing just a few minutes here and there so he left too.

Now new squad players are needed and with the homegrown quota some of the upcoming new signings will have to be HG players, of which there aren't too many available. AOC, Barkley and Drinkwater the obvious candidates and I'm pretty sure we'll end up with at least one of those three and other new arrivals will be foreign players. I have no doubt we'll see another few players coming in before the end of the window and most of those signings will be squad players mostly for the bench so they might seem kinda underwhelming compared to when our rivals are signing better players to be their starters but what you're forgetting is that Chelsea's team core is pretty much already fixed and improved from last season so squad signings are what's needed right now. Still hoping for a big signing to improve the wing-back areas but for central midfield I really can't see another star player joining, and rightly so.

The only problem I see with us buying Drinkwater is his reported fee and the fact Matic was still better player.

We got 40m in bank from Matic and 70m from Oscar, Im sure we can get proper replacement that will be happy enough to understand he will compete for starting spot. 

Straight out of my head, Sanson would be allright alternative. And there are plenty more players that we can try to get with that money. 

Drinkwater is not better option to have than Matic. In that case we should simply keep Matic. If he wanted to leave? So? Martial lost his place too and he wasnt sold to Chelsea straight after.

We will play 2 man midfield and only Kante seems to be nailed on starter. Cesc is better as alternative, never a starter and Bakayoko needs to recover first, gain fitness and then prove his spot. 

That said, I just hope we get two proper wingbacks, those two are crucial improvements right now.

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53 minutes ago, Jype said:

Oh come on, stop being so fucking dramatic. Let's have a look who the rivals have as backup CMs:

City: Fernando and Fabian Delph the obvious backups. Ilkay Gündogan could be considered a backup too because he's not exactly fit enough to be considered first choice even tho he's pretty good. Don't know about Yaya Toure, maybe he'll be reduced to a backup role this season being 34yo. Also Pep likes his rotation a lot more than Conte, sometimes leading to messy performances all around with needless tinkering.

United: Michael Carrick, Marouane Fellaini, Timothy Fosu-Mensah

Liverpool: Marko Grujic is the only clear backup. Other midfielders (Can, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lallana) all pretty much equal in the pecking order with each of them starting around 25-30 league games a season in a three man midfield. Klopp, much like Guardiola, is known to use a lot of rotation due to the demanding nature of football his team plays.

Arsenal: Mohamed Elneny, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Jack Wilshere. Maybe one of Coquelin/Ramsey too, not sure which Wenger fancies more. 

Spurs: Moussa Sissoko, Harry Winks

 

Now tell me, which of those do you consider to be a significantly better set of backups than Fabregas, Baker and say Drinkwater? I'll grant you City are pretty good all across the field having improved this summer but all the others just scream 'mediocre' to me and not really anything to be worried about.

Fact is, without the extensive use of rotation week-in week-out having established stars as squad players is just impossible and Conte is a manager who mostly sticks to a winning team and only mixes things up in case of injuries or occasionally playing a weakened side at an easier game ahead of a more important fixture. Matic knew his chances would be more limited with the arrival of Bakayoko so he chose to leave and Chalobah at his age couldn't risk another season playing just a few minutes here and there so he left too.

Now new squad players are needed and with the homegrown quota some of the upcoming new signings will have to be HG players, of which there aren't too many available. AOC, Barkley and Drinkwater the obvious candidates and I'm pretty sure we'll end up with at least one of those three and other new arrivals will be foreign players. I have no doubt we'll see another few players coming in before the end of the window and most of those signings will be squad players mostly for the bench so they might seem kinda underwhelming compared to when our rivals are signing better players to be their starters but what you're forgetting is that Chelsea's team core is pretty much already fixed and improved from last season so squad signings are what's needed right now. Still hoping for a big signing to improve the wing-back areas but for central midfield I really can't see another star player joining, and rightly so.

fellaini is gone

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Look, this is what I have always hated about us buying players like Marin, Djilobodji, Sidwell, Boularhouz etc. They might be proven at mid-table level but they are no better than the Bakers or Pasalics of this world. I don't mind us improving depth. But if we want to spend money, there should be some upgrade at least in the 4th/5th cm position. Otherwise it is just money down the drain. I understand that Drinkwater is only our 3rd or 4th choice for CM backup but why dafuq do we sell Matic and Cahlobah, only having 2 fit senior CMs adn then 1 week before the season think about reinforcements for depth? Are we unable to handle multiple transfers at the same time?

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@Magic Lamps

It's not really obvious to everyone though, because people keep discrediting the players linked to the club saying they're not as good as Matic.

Getting Bakayoko sealed Matic's fate and I thought everyone knew that already. Then Chalobah was sold too and it created a need for a new signing. It's just the timing of Matic's sale and these links to new players overlapping that make people think the club are now trying to replace Matic with Drinkwater/Barkley/whoever but that's not the case.

38 minutes ago, It's too big said:

fellaini is gone

No he's not, Galatasaray were interested but it's not happening. Mourinho said they have more chance of getting him as manager than sign Fellaini because he's so important to United's plans. Don't see him leaving after that, they need the depth too. 

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For the reasons why we would buy drinkwater (home grown, depth, experience in prem), i would rather take a punt on Wilshere for a fraction of the cost. Our medical department seems to have worked wonders the last few years and if they could get him fit to add to the squad he would be a better option than drinkwater.

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