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3. Marcos Alonso


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10 hours ago, Vesper said:

the 18 months or so from summer 2017 up until the close of the winter window January 2019 were a top 5 in the history of football poor transfer and contract nightmare for a football board

the financial damage is in the multiple hundreds of millions of pounds range and it also infected the club with utter shit players who we are so going to get further fucked on trying to liquidate

I literally is mind-blowing the insanity Marina and the board fell into

untimely sales, refused sales due to crazy inflated valuation by us,, mismanagement of contracts, incredibly poor buys and loans, and blown buy attempts, it had it all in fucking spades

it damn near could have destroyed the club as a top force if not for the academy and some (not nearly enough) luck

the names involved in one bad category or another

   
Kepa   ARRRRRFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Gonzalo Higuaín   (fuck Sarri, we shat away around £16m on his wuthless arse for half a season in fees and salary)
Álvaro Morata (stick saved via stupid Atleti buying him, so there is some of that luck)   
Tiemoué Bakayoko    AAAAARRRRFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF (although at the time, I thought it was a good buy, he is my main cock-up, the only big buy that I also fucked up in the last 5 plus onward years, so there is my full disclosure)
Danny Drinkwater    ARFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Willian (non sale for £65m, hell even if we had taken £55-60m it still would have been great business)   
Davide Zappacosta    wtf?????
Marcos Alonso (non sale for £45m and then stupid contract renewal)
Emerson    never should have bought damaged goods
Kenedy (non sale to NUFC)
Eden Hazard (bottom line is the non timely sale will more than likely cost us close to £100m, but it is counterbalanced a bit with trophies and CL qualification, although who knowwhat we could have done in summer 2018 with £190m or so cash)
Victor Moses (non sales)
Courtois (non timely sale in 2017 for £80m or so, which lead to panic sale for £50m less and panic disasterclass buy of Kepa for £140m (counting salary and add-on fees) for 7 years in 2018)
Abdul Rahman Baba   (non sales, and a the orginal buy, whilst outside of this time-frame, was SHIT)) 
Michy Batshuayi   (non sales, plus a shit buy in the first place, although again, the buy is before this period)

the only good that came out of that period

Christian Pulisic   (technically the deal was done in January 2019)
Jorginho  (as along as we cash in)  
Mateo Kovacic (and I get the distinct feeling if no bans we would have not bought him)
Antonio Rüdiger (£35m was a fair price, even with all his haters)

Zouma remains to be seen how it ends, but he did not sell him when Everton were desperate to buy him due to the bans looming, we still should get more than decent cash so not necessarily a fail

 

madness :(

 

 

There are a couple of things here. 

1) I do not think Real pay £190m for Hazard in 2018. Further even if they do, you have to weigh this up against risking CL qualification/A Ropey League win. For me, selling when we did and for the amount we got was the right call. 

2) I cannot believe you thought Baka was a good player. I wasn't on here at the time but on another forum I was going ape sh*t when we brought him. Honestly, anyone that watched him for more than 45 mins knew he owed his career to Fabinho. 

3) Cannot say Morata was really that bad as we got most of our money back on him. Sure he had the mentality of a 11 year old but when you buy someone for £58m and then get £50m back even when they flop means you have done ok and it should be a lesson learned and not something to beat yourself up about. 

4) Drinkwater I think wasn't a good idea but I also think the bloke is either a alcoholic or has mental health issues (possibly both.) For me, he was signed as an expensive CM4 who would help with the HG quota. Obviously he has been a disaster but I think this is due to his problems that they club would probably be unaware of. Without them I think we would've got most of our money (say £20/25m) back for him via a sale if he hadn't gone crazy.

5) Tbf with Alonso, when he got renewed he was playing in the 343 system and he was one of our best players by then for about 18 months. His stats going forward were impressive. Not sure in the context of when he actually signed the extension it was as crazy as it seems now. As for the bid from Real, again it was rumours from 2nd rate itk's. I would say for certain it was true (no need to post any links I have seen them already.)

6) With Willian, even if we did get the £65m bid, we still would've needed him to agree. From everything I have seen from him, he strikes me as someone that will not want to leave England. I think he is too settled. 

I agree with most of the rest, however I am still hopeful we can squeeze decent money out of Emerson and Zouma so they will be a seen more as squad players that were here for a while that we didn't really lose much by having. 

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He hasn't even kicked a ball yet for us and you guys are moaning.  Just remember who we currently have at RB. Moving Azpi over there alone would be a huge upgrade and if Alonso can become a consis

Hell of a struggle for him yesterday and he was clearly being targeted. An upgrade is a must and I think Conte knows by now. That's not to say Alonso won't be a useful squad player for a few year

Another sensational game he was brilliant. Traore was the only player I was worried about from that team and he marginalised the threat by Traore and going forward was such a threat. He lost Traore so

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11 hours ago, King Kante said:

There are a couple of things here. 

1) I do not think Real pay £190m for Hazard in 2018. Further even if they do, you have to weigh this up against risking CL qualification/A Ropey League win. For me, selling when we did and for the amount we got was the right call. 

2) I cannot believe you thought Baka was a good player. I wasn't on here at the time but on another forum I was going ape sh*t when we brought him. Honestly, anyone that watched him for more than 45 mins knew he owed his career to Fabinho. 

3) Cannot say Morata was really that bad as we got most of our money back on him. Sure he had the mentality of a 11 year old but when you buy someone for £58m and then get £50m back even when they flop means you have done ok and it should be a lesson learned and not something to beat yourself up about. 

4) Drinkwater I think wasn't a good idea but I also think the bloke is either a alcoholic or has mental health issues (possibly both.) For me, he was signed as an expensive CM4 who would help with the HG quota. Obviously he has been a disaster but I think this is due to his problems that they club would probably be unaware of. Without them I think we would've got most of our money (say £20/25m) back for him via a sale if he hadn't gone crazy.

5) Tbf with Alonso, when he got renewed he was playing in the 343 system and he was one of our best players by then for about 18 months. His stats going forward were impressive. Not sure in the context of when he actually signed the extension it was as crazy as it seems now. As for the bid from Real, again it was rumours from 2nd rate itk's. I would say for certain it was true (no need to post any links I have seen them already.)

6) With Willian, even if we did get the £65m bid, we still would've needed him to agree. From everything I have seen from him, he strikes me as someone that will not want to leave England. I think he is too settled. 

I agree with most of the rest, however I am still hopeful we can squeeze decent money out of Emerson and Zouma so they will be a seen more as squad players that were here for a while that we didn't really lose much by having. 

Alonso was renewed under Sarri, not Conte, so no 3-4-3 or 3-5-2. It was a blunder, but far from the worst. The turn down of £45m was bigger, but as the board has seen for ages, I have not been on Alonso's arse for ages. He has played far better for months, after sweating the Sarri out of him. Sarri was a shit manager. Most of the players regressed or stagnated under him IMHO. I think this 'he revolutionised Kante' claptrap is 100% tosh myself. As for Eden, Real was talking about £180-190m for Hazard back then and Marina or whoever was saying 200-210m. I also did admit the mitigating factors (CL qualifying and EL win, but like I said, who knows what £180-190m cash would have brought us.) I am NOT going back over the long ago proven £65m offer from Barca for Willian, and zero chance Willian would have turned it down. The FUD posts that persist over this only serve to make their progenitors look obstinate at this point.

I already said Morata was mitigated due to the stupidity of Atleti, and Bakayoko as my only cock-up in terms of being happy with a signing who turned out to be shit, which is a damn good record and far better than the board itself. Many people never even admit to being wrong once. There have been other players I was wrong on too, but none that recently. 

All in all a disastrous period of time for the board. I will never admit to otherwise. If not for the academy and the stupidity of Atleti (Costa and Morata) we would be FUCKED.

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1 hour ago, Vesper said:

Alonso was renewed under Sarri, not Conte, so no 3-4-3 or 3-5-2. It was a blunder, but far from the worst. The turn down of £45m was bigger, but as the board has seen for ages, I have not been on Alonso's arse for ages. He has played far better for months, after sweating the Sarri out of him. Sarri was a shit manager. Most of the players regressed or stagnated under him IMHO. I think this 'he revolutionised Kante' claptrap is 100% tosh myself. As for Eden, Real was talking about £180-190m for Hazard back then and Marina or whoever was saying 200-210m. I also did admit the mitigating factors (CL qualifying and EL win, but like I said, who knows what £180-190m cash would have brought us.) I am NOT going back over the long ago proven £65m offer from Barca for Willian, and zero chance Willian would have turned it down. The FUD posts that persist over this only serve to make their progenitors look obstinate at this point.

I already said Morata was mitigated due to the stupidity of Atleti, and Bakayoko as my only cock-up in terms of being happy with a signing who turned out to be shit, which is a damn good record and far better than the board itself. Many people never even admit to being wrong once. There have been other players I was wrong on too, but none that recently. 

All in all a disastrous period of time for the board. I will never admit to otherwise. If not for the academy and the stupidity of Atleti (Costa and Morata) we would be FUCKED.

I am not a fan of the board either, so I feel your pain. It is just that I differ with you on certain areas to get frustrated. Although, this post has reminded me Alonso was actually renewed at a odd time. 

As for mistakes, we do all make mistakes. I got Torres wrong as I thought he could get his sh*t back together. The only reason I mentioned Baka was due to it being super obvious to me he was dire but you seem to watch a lot of football. I was more surprised than mocking you for it. 

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33 minutes ago, King Kante said:

I am not a fan of the board either, so I feel your pain. It is just that I differ with you on certain areas to get frustrated. Although, this post has reminded me Alonso was actually renewed at a odd time. 

As for mistakes, we do all make mistakes. I got Torres wrong as I thought he could get his sh*t back together. The only reason I mentioned Baka was due to it being super obvious to me he was dire but you seem to watch a lot of football. I was more surprised than mocking you for it. 

fair enough, and I was so so against Torres (in my defence, lolol) so that makes up for Baka

I saw Baka's athleticism as being tailor-made for the EPL, and failed to truly see his utter lack of footballing skills outside of that

going back a long ways, I was, however, dead wrong on Sheva, as I thought he had at least 3 great years left, plus I let personal love for the guy as a player at AC Milan get in the way of my cognitive thinking

I was, however only 13 years old then too, so there was that as well, lololol, and had not fully come to my hard stance on over 30yo player decline (plus strikers and GKers are the two main exception positions to that in many cases)

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42 minutes ago, Vesper said:

fair enough, and I was so so against Torres (in my defence, lolol) so that makes up for Baka

I saw Baka's athleticism as being tailor-made for the EPL, and failed to truly see his utter lack of footballing skills outside of that

going back a long ways, I was, however, dead wrong on Sheva, as I thought he had at least 3 great years left, plus I let personal love for the guy as a player at AC Milan get in the way of my cognitive thinking

I was, however only 13 years old then too, so there was that as well, lololol, and had not fully come to my hard stance on over 30yo player decline (plus strikers and GKers are the two main exception positions to that in many cases)

Personally, I would say CB's age later than CF's but agree. 

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1 hour ago, King Kante said:

Personally, I would say CB's age later than CF's but agree. 

lets look at ex WC level (truly WC) CB's who have declined (I do not think anyone can argue that they have declined now) and their ages as of now

injuries start to really pile up once a CB (almost all of them ) goes over 32yo of age

I start out with some exceptions, who performed to WC level well into their 30's

Thiago Silva 35now, he declined a lot this year, and to a point last year, so 33yo was his last great year
Giorgio Chiellini    35 now, injuries started to nag him after the 2014-15 season (so when he was 30yo, which was his last fully healthy year), his last dominant year (skill wise) even with the injures was 2 years ago, when he was 32.33yo

 

now the ones who prove my point to a degree

Sergio Ramos (just turned 34 so was 33yo most of this season, especially if no COVID-19 delay), who is shadow of what he was, his last great year was two years ago, when he was mostly 31yo

Diego Godin, 33-34yo this year, he is in severe decline now, his last great year, like Ramos, was 2 years ago, when he was 31-32yo, although he had a decent year in his last year at Atleti, the season before this one

Vincent Kompany (mostly 33yo this season)  injures started to fuck him up once he was 29 and 30yo, still was really solid until 2 years (at 31yo, so not like he was some Maldini-like freak) ago, but injuries come with age, and they destroyed his career from 30yo and up

Leonardo Bonucci (mostly 32yo this season) is in decline now from the massive heights he once was at, but still a  very solid player, just not WC anymore IMHO, maybe barely

Gerard Piqué (32-33yo this season) clearly in decline now, still is capable of a great, WC game every now and then, but certainly not with regularity, he has been burnt a lot this year, his pace is shot for the most part

Jan Vertonghen (mostly 32yo this season) is in clear decline (and he is one who some might say was never truly WC, although I think he was a very, very good CB for years)

 

there are ZERO WC CB's who are now 32yo as I type this (Otamendi and Sokratis are the highest rated in terms of value, to show the huge drop off)

 

as for ones who are now 31 years old now as I type this

Toby Alderweireld (and was mostly 30yo this season) is he WC now? Was he ever? Maybe, but I cannot see him as being so this next season when he is 31-32yo

Mats Hummels (30-31yo this season) a great example of a decline once he hit 30yo, and some would say before

Jérôme Boateng (mostly 31yo this season, was 30 for the first month) He is an even better example of a post 30yo decline, he was arguably (many will disagree) the best CB in the world a few years back, or certainly in the top 5, now he is shadow of what he was when he was 26, 27 or so. I will say that playing with Alaba has helped him a lot, due to Alaba's pace making up for his lack of that.

 

ZERO WC CB's who are 30yo as I type this (Chris Smalling and Lovren are the 2 with the highest value, to show you how poor the quality is there)

 

finally, a sleeper

Yunis Abdelhamid (31 and 32yo this season) He did have a world class year, but it is not like he was deep into his 30's and will he repeat it? IF he was 5 or 6 years younger or so, and coming off such a season like he just had I would be bouncing up and down to buy him, especially as he is a left-footer

 

so yes, CB's age a wee bit better than fullbacks and DMF's (especially those two positions) and AMF's and most wingers, but once they hit post 32yo or so almost all decline immensely, the exceptions are very rare indeed

 

 

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To Marcos himself:

I try to be humble and keep my thoughts to myself, but one of the biggest reasons I am a member of this forum other than being a true Chelsea, is you. You because you are disgrace miserable and because I needed a place to share my comments on how awful you are.

I do not care for anything good you did, because I would argue it was a luck or miracle. I really do believe the day you joined was cursed, I would rather watch my team lose without you than win with you. Because of you I am not as happy as I should be when new good players join the club, because I know you will ruin their games.

I can't wait to see you leaving the club. 

Regards,

Bobo.

 

P.S I would love to be remembered here for being your biggest hater. If not for anything else.

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First loss with Alonso starting this season :D

Not trying to defend him or anything but before that last goal he did not cost us goals for months unlike Azpi, Rudi, Chris, Zouma who do this every game...

And he was probably instructed to play high because we were chasing a goal.

Ofc we need new starting LB next season but Alonso is not in top5 worst performers today...

He is always perfect victim.

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2 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

First loss with Alonso starting this season :D

Not trying to defend him or anything but before that last goal he did not costed us goals for months unlike Azpi, Rudi, Chris, Zouma who do this every game...

And he was probably instructed to play high because we were chasing a goal.

Ofc we need new starting LB next season but Alonso is not in top5 worst performers today...

Yeah, I am not really getting why everyone is going crazy at Alonso, it is pretty obvious SFL had told him to go up the pitch. Essentially when we're chasing a game, Alonso is our version of sending up the CB to play CF, but in his case it is to go up from LB to LWF. 

The third goal was down to SFL's tactics and Rudiger's inability to defend. The second was AC deciding to give up defending and the first a dual award for Rudi (for giving the corner away) and Kepa for not controlling his six yard area/losing the flight of the ball yet again. 

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15 hours ago, King Kante said:

Yeah, I am not really getting why everyone is going crazy at Alonso, it is pretty obvious SFL had told him to go up the pitch. Essentially when we're chasing a game, Alonso is our version of sending up the CB to play CF, but in his case it is to go up from LB to LWF. 

The third goal was down to SFL's tactics and Rudiger's inability to defend. The second was AC deciding to give up defending and the first a dual award for Rudi (for giving the corner away) and Kepa for not controlling his six yard area/losing the flight of the ball yet again. 

Exactly. Was almost like the days of AVB asking Bosingwa and Cole to play as wingers back in the day.

I really dont see how FL couldn't see we were so vulnerable to West Ham counters and at 2-2 as well as the fact we conceded in the last few mins, he should have just played for the draw. I think with more experience behind him he will realise this in the future. Even more so when the teams playing badly. The in game management hasnt been great all season though, be it through having to chase goals due to not taking advantage of our chances and killing games off or pushing for more goals when we don’t necessarily need to etc. It is something that regardless of personnel needs to change. 

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13 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Exactly. Was almost like the days of AVB asking Bosingwa and Cole to play as wingers back in the day.

I really dont see how FL couldn't see we were so vulnerable to West Ham counters and at 2-2 as well as the fact we conceded in the last few mins, he should have just played for the draw. I think with more experience behind him he will realise this in the future. Even more so when the teams playing badly. The in game management hasnt been great all season though, be it through having to chase goals due to not taking advantage of our chances and killing games off or pushing for more goals when we don’t necessarily need to etc. It is something that regardless of personnel needs to change. 

Agreed. My worry is that Derby suffered from these problems last season also, so he hasn't really learned his lesson. 

My ideal would be to get JT back as he has turned Mings into a very good CB. However, we all know that JT's political ambitions in the dressing room would possibly cause conflicts with Jody and SFL. 

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8 minutes ago, King Kante said:

Agreed. My worry is that Derby suffered from these problems last season also, so he hasn't really learned his lesson. 

My ideal would be to get JT back as he has turned Mings into a very good CB. However, we all know that JT's political ambitions in the dressing room would possibly cause conflicts with Jody and SFL. 

I think if FL wanted to get JT in he would of when he arrived. In all fairness as well, Villa arent exactly a shining beacon of being a strong defensive team and Mings was maybe more just needing to play more often to develop as he was always very talented.

it has to improve obviously though.

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Chelsea boss Lampard slams 'slating' Neville: So easy to comment from afar

https://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/chelsea-boss-lampard-slams-slating-neville-so-easy-to-comment-from-afar-4332032

Chelsea boss Frank Lampard has slammed pundit Gary Neville over criticism of Marcos Alonso.

Neville blasted Alonso after the Spaniard failed to track back in the build-up to West Ham's late winner on Wednesday night.

"They [full-backs] have a responsibility to do both [attack and defend] and that's important," Lampard said. "It's not easy with isolated slatings – it's much easier to comment from afar.

"We do try and play football. We do try and be progressive but we don't do that at the idea of wanting to concede goals. And recovery runs are a huge part of football and the players must do them whether they are the first minutes or the 90th minute.

"So I don't think it's quite fair to look at Marcos in that isolated incident. Yes, he can recover, we can recover better as a team but that has to be something fundamental to the team. The players have to have the desire to run backwards as much as they run fast forwards.

"And sometimes you have to have the desire to make the difficult runs, whatever they may be to help the team. I can't complain about that with the team this year but if you isolate one goal that is so crucial because it wins the points, fair enough. But I know with my players that generally we have a desire to press very well off the ball and when goes beyond us we will recover and get there.

"It's a game where we slipped up, not just that mistake but other mistakes and lost the game for it."

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Lol Gary speaking...

At the time of his sacking, Valencia were 14th in the league, only six points clear of the relegation zone, and had won only three of their 16 league games under Neville, also failing to keep a single clean sheet.

while in 2016, Hernán Crespo was critical both of Neville's punditry and his tenure as Valencia's manager, stating, "To watch a game from the TV, it's very different than from the bench. I'm almost happy for Gary Neville's troubles at Valencia. I remember he was too harsh as a TV pundit."

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6 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Lol Gary speaking...

At the time of his sacking, Valencia were 14th in the league, only six points clear of the relegation zone, and had won only three of their 16 league games under Neville, also failing to keep a single clean sheet.

while in 2016, Hernán Crespo was critical both of Neville's punditry and his tenure as Valencia's manager, stating, "To watch a game from the TV, it's very different than from the bench. I'm almost happy for Gary Neville's troubles at Valencia. I remember he was too harsh as a TV pundit."

Gary Neville University of Salford.jpg

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3 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Clown college? 

University of Salford Logo.png

Manchester United and England legend Gary Neville added a non-footballing title to his impressive list of honours today (Friday 18 July) when he was awarded an honorary doctorate by the University of Salford. The England coach and Sky Sports pundit received a doctor of science award from Salford Business School 

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14 hours ago, Vesper said:

Chelsea boss Lampard slams 'slating' Neville: So easy to comment from afar

https://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/chelsea-boss-lampard-slams-slating-neville-so-easy-to-comment-from-afar-4332032

Chelsea boss Frank Lampard has slammed pundit Gary Neville over criticism of Marcos Alonso.

Neville blasted Alonso after the Spaniard failed to track back in the build-up to West Ham's late winner on Wednesday night.

"They [full-backs] have a responsibility to do both [attack and defend] and that's important," Lampard said. "It's not easy with isolated slatings – it's much easier to comment from afar.

"We do try and play football. We do try and be progressive but we don't do that at the idea of wanting to concede goals. And recovery runs are a huge part of football and the players must do them whether they are the first minutes or the 90th minute.

"So I don't think it's quite fair to look at Marcos in that isolated incident. Yes, he can recover, we can recover better as a team but that has to be something fundamental to the team. The players have to have the desire to run backwards as much as they run fast forwards.

"And sometimes you have to have the desire to make the difficult runs, whatever they may be to help the team. I can't complain about that with the team this year but if you isolate one goal that is so crucial because it wins the points, fair enough. But I know with my players that generally we have a desire to press very well off the ball and when goes beyond us we will recover and get there.

"It's a game where we slipped up, not just that mistake but other mistakes and lost the game for it."

Tbf I dont think their necessarily wrong to mention that about Alonso but the fact we were going for a winner, pushing bodies forward when taking a draw wouldn't of been the worst result (based on our performance and how easily WHU were breaking on us) was a bigger issue.

In all fairness as well I think Gary Neville is just as likely to mention this if it were Luke Shaw or Aaron Wan Bissaka and not Marcos Alonso. Him and especially Roy Keane are very quick to call out players mistakes. Keane’s opinions on football are so clear and always have been, theres no sitting on the fence and its refreshing to listen to. Neville maybe not as clear cut but again always seems to be honest and not hold any real bias. Plus Keane putting Carragher in his place when he made that Luis Suarez signing comment and also the team where he put Mane in instead of Giggs were arguably the best things to come off sky sports this season. Also while we are on the topic of Neville, someone told me his dads name is Neville Neville so googled it and I cannot believe someone would do that to their child 😂

Also it is good that Frank has come out to defend Marcos and not criticise him for it as such as others may have done. 

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