Tammy Abraham

[Magic Lamps 11,446]

I hope it is clear now why I said he is not good enough and never will be good before the season. That is not hate btw. It is just a realistic assessment. I wish he was good enough and I dont think he is a bad striker, he and his style of play is just not for a top club where there are tons of defenders giving you no space every game. As soon as he has space he is alright but sadly this will be the case for very few of our games and even then it would help if he put away his chances. He will be a great signing for a mid-table club. could even see him do well in Bundesliga for a club like Frankfurt, schalke or mainz. But at a club like Chelsea a striker basically needs to be a one man army who can create and score his own chances and help the build up play and that is just not his thing.

[Puliiszola 519]

2 minutes ago, Mana said:

I’ve called it at the beginning of the season. What I didn’t expect though he has exposed himself and does not love the club. He is asking for big bucks when he CLEARLY has not made it yet.

So he should not be trying to earn a living? 

What is wrong with people on here. Footballers have a 15-20 year career with only about 10 of them at the highest level. I mean come on, and give it a thought at least. Just because he is demanding big bucks, means he does not love the club? 

Poor performance, still does not change the fact that this was a great first season for him. He can be a very good 2nd striker. Look at who Liverpool have as their second striker, ORIGI. Obviously a 22 year old will have some faults, but to rule him out after he has scored 16 goals in his first season has got to be the most ignorant thing I have read. And "fans" asking for such a thing, seriously need some perspective

[The Mak 4,459]

I remember seeing him in preseason with a mate and we both commented how terrible he was (against a local Irish team btw, so you can imagine how bad they are). Bats looked x10 times the player at the time, not a lie.

His purple patch is over and his limited ability is on full display. I am hesitant to even call him a back-up striker because you need to be somewhat reliable for that role. 

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, Puliiszola said:

Poor performance, still does not change the fact that this was a great first season for him. He can be a very good 2nd striker. Look at who Liverpool have as their second striker, ORIGI. Obviously a 22 year old will have some faults, but to rule him out after he has scored 16 goals in his first season has got to be the most ignorant thing I have read. And "fans" asking for such a thing, seriously need some perspective

16 goals on paper look a decent return but if you were to break that down, 7 of those goals came in 3 games earlier in the season - Sheffield United, Norwich and Wolves. Since then, he scored only 9 goals in 35 appearances and like it or not, that is not a great return, especially when he has been the no.1 striker for much of this season.

If Abraham is putting good overall performances but not scoring, I think people have been more forgivable but he isn't. He isn't scoring and his overall performances have dipped and not it's just one game, it's been several games at the very least. Arguably the worst of the lot is he can't do even the basics right. For example, he struggles to control the ball properly when it comes to him and it always seems like the ball is just bouncing all over him. His timing is off, his technique is off, his precision is off. Everything about him is off at the moment and his body language is not even great either.

Preaching patience with young players is understandable but they also gotta earn the patience, reward the patience or trust if you will. It can't be given just for the sake of it. Otherwise, we should be giving every young player opportunities just because they are young. Moreover, Abraham turns 23 in a couple of months - just 1 year younger than Werner by the way - and regardless of whether this is his first season with us, he's played football at a decent level for some time now (let's not forget that he had played in the Premier League with Swansea previously). So, I don't think it's unfair for people to expect a tad more consistency or better performances from Abraham.

[Tomo 21,681]

50 minutes ago, Mana said:

Are you pulling my leg? 😂😂

Give your head a wobble. Tammy earns more than everybody in this forum put together. His current wage is more than good enough to have a rich lifestyle.

If he wants to earn bigger bucks, go to United or PSG or Dortmund. I don’t want him earning 130k at Chelsea as he hasn’t earned it.

Why the hell shouldn't a player try and maximize their earnings? For a start more money long term will set up more generations of his family and you never know what issues may come later in life, maybe he or a family member gets depressed/ill and need the very best care that doesn't come cheap.

 There's many things that you can rightly criticise an average footballer for but trying to secure the very best possible financial future for himself and his family is not one of them  (especially in these times).

[Tomo 21,681]

28 minutes ago, Mana said:

Are you fecking kidding me? He is earning a lot of money already WEEKLY, and you’re painting a picture that he is some Oliver Twist?

Do you know how much is earning already a week? That is more than enough to help himself and his family for the rest of their lifetime. And he hasn’t even reached 25 yet.

“Especially in these times?” Was Abraham laid off? Chelsea no longer paying him? Don’t compare him to others who are actually struggling. Abraham isn’t struggling financially and you are in a bubble if you think he is.

Abraham will be fine, if he renews his contract with a slightly higher wage, fair enough but he wants to equal or better CHO’s weekly salary. 
 

Which could make things difficult for us in the future if he continues to be shite like this. 
 

If he wants to secure a future with a 3 figure  weekly salary that I and most others will never get in our lives, he can go to a different club.

You've completely taking everything I've said out of context, like literally everything.

[Vesper 27,282]

4 hours ago, Special Juan said:

He's like a pissed Gazelle 

[Pizy 17,860]

I just don't think he'll ever become anything more than a solid player. Never truly good enough to be our main #9 who instills fear in defenses like Didier or Diego Costa. He just doesn't have enough to his game. At his best he's a great poacher but he's simply an average all around footballer. He's not a threat at all when he's outside the box. 

If Tammy were the starting striker for a midtable side like Everton or something I don't think we'd pay him much attention. We'd say yeah he's alright but nothing special.

Also, while he is young, he's isn't 17 or 18 young. He's pretty much the player he's going to be now. Not like he's going to dramatically improve his ability on the ball or start curling in worldies from 30 yards. He is who he will be.

[Rapkun 668]

I understand you all need a scapegoat but the Abraham abuse is over the top. 14 goals(so far) excluding penalties in his first season for us at 22 and some of you think he's not even PL material.. If it isn't overreacting I don't know what is.

Yes he's going through a rough patch but that's part of the process, we knew we weren't getting the finished product yet. Few years back we dreamed of having academy graduates make it into the first team and everyone moaned about the lack of opportunities given but now that we're there no one is willing to be patient or understanding. Same thing with Mount, James, CHO and even little Gilmour. Young players are inconsistent, it's even more true when it comes to target man type of strikers who only start to show the best of their abilities in the latter part of their careers. And Tammy has already shown he's capable of being much more than just a target man.

I don't know why our fanbase is so harsh towards young players, wether it's the pressure to win, the recent culture of only buying ready made players or something else entirely. But if we want to make full use of our superb youth academy, or develop the young talents we buy from elsewhere and not have a repeat of KDB/Salah/Lukaku etc.. Maybe everyone needs to show a bit more patience.

[DDA 9,570]

1 hour ago, Rapkun said:

I understand you all need a scapegoat but the Abraham abuse is over the top. 14 goals(so far) excluding penalties in his first season for us at 22 and some of you think he's not even PL material.. If it isn't overreacting I don't know what is.

Yes he's going through a rough patch but that's part of the process, we knew we weren't getting the finished product yet. Few years back we dreamed of having academy graduates make it into the first team and everyone moaned about the lack of opportunities given but now that we're there no one is willing to be patient or understanding. Same thing with Mount, James, CHO and even little Gilmour. Young players are inconsistent, it's even more true when it comes to target man type of strikers who only start to show the best of their abilities in the latter part of their careers. And Tammy has already shown he's capable of being much more than just a target man.

I don't know why our fanbase is so harsh towards young players, wether it's the pressure to win, the recent culture of only buying ready made players or something else entirely. But if we want to make full use of our superb youth academy, or develop the young talents we buy from elsewhere and not have a repeat of KDB/Salah/Lukaku etc.. Maybe everyone needs to show a bit more patience.

We get what you are saying but when you watch a striker miss the target more than he hits it... take up hurrendous positioning and spends more time on his ass than he does on his feet... game in, game out... it's hard to keep faith. 

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, DDA said:

We get what you are saying but when you watch a striker miss the target more than he hits it... take up hurrendous positioning and spends more time on his ass than he does on his feet... game in, game out... it's hard to keep faith. 

That sounds like a Spanish striker we once had. 

[Puliiszola 519]

6 hours ago, Mana said:

Are you pulling my leg? 😂😂

Give your head a wobble. Tammy earns more than everybody in this forum put together. His current wage is more than good enough to have a rich lifestyle.

If he wants to earn bigger bucks, go to United or PSG or Dortmund. I don’t want him earning 130k at Chelsea as he hasn’t earned it.

Just because he earns more than you and me, does not mean he should not try and get the best deal for himself. 

Get off your high horse and think about what you are saying. People like us switch jobs for a 20% raise, and no matter how good a company is, it is money that defines our decisions. 

What has CHO done to earn 120kpw this season? Emerson to earn his wages? Kepa? Michy? Obviously he has a right to demand atleast what these guys are earning if not more. 

[Puliiszola 519]

8 hours ago, Jason said:

16 goals on paper look a decent return but if you were to break that down, 7 of those goals came in 3 games earlier in the season - Sheffield United, Norwich and Wolves. Since then, he scored only 9 goals in 35 appearances and like it or not, that is not a great return, especially when he has been the no.1 striker for much of this season.

If Abraham is putting good overall performances but not scoring, I think people have been more forgivable but he isn't. He isn't scoring and his overall performances have dipped and not it's just one game, it's been several games at the very least. Arguably the worst of the lot is he can't do even the basics right. For example, he struggles to control the ball properly when it comes to him and it always seems like the ball is just bouncing all over him. His timing is off, his technique is off, his precision is off. Everything about him is off at the moment and his body language is not even great either.

Preaching patience with young players is understandable but they also gotta earn the patience, reward the patience or trust if you will. It can't be given just for the sake of it. Otherwise, we should be giving every young player opportunities just because they are young. Moreover, Abraham turns 23 in a couple of months - just 1 year younger than Werner by the way - and regardless of whether this is his first season with us, he's played football at a decent level for some time now (let's not forget that he had played in the Premier League with Swansea previously). So, I don't think it's unfair for people to expect a tad more consistency or better performances from Abraham.

Almost every striker goes through a dip.

Tammy's season can be divided in 3 parts - the excellent start, the good middle, the current fiasco. 

While Tammy was poor yesterday, whose performance was even "good". What did pulisic do of note? He looked gassed from the 1st minute. Hence our re-inforcements in terms of werner, ziyech and hopefully kai. 

Tammy also lacked any service of note yesterday, infact our whole forward line did. We could not get the ball to them, and a lot of it stemmed from poor and slow passing out of the back from our defence and so called regista. 

Yesterday was a system failure, a team failure. As a team we were second to sheffield in spirit, second to them in tactics. To pin it all down on a striker and call him names (not you but a lot of people are), and moreover expecting to be sold, seriously?

Which team other than city has a world class 2nd striker? It's a league where the likes of pepe and lacazzete have looked ordinary for most of the season, yet we want our 22 year old striker to be loaned/sold? And for whom? Another batshuayi? Another kalou? Or Morata? Falcao? Pato? Demba ba? Remy? 

I mean the fanbase is so fickle, it's unbelievable. 

I think Tammy is a good striker and an able no.2. He has a lot to learn and improve. Anyways we look at it, it's been a good season for him.

As for top 4 and the gloom and doom, I think there's a lot of hope left. Who would have thought that we would beat city? Infact it's been the likes of Sheffield who have been our Achilles heel rather than Liverpool or city or arsenal or spurs.

Leicester have a tough 4 fixtures left. 

Let's keep the faith and cheer our boys.

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Puliiszola said:

Almost every striker goes through a dip.

Tammy's season can be divided in 3 parts - the excellent start, the good middle, the current fiasco. 

While Tammy was poor yesterday, whose performance was even "good". What did pulisic do of note? He looked gassed from the 1st minute. Hence our re-inforcements in terms of werner, ziyech and hopefully kai. 

Tammy also lacked any service of note yesterday, infact our whole forward line did. We could not get the ball to them, and a lot of it stemmed from poor and slow passing out of the back from our defence and so called regista. 

Never mind a striker, every player goes through a dip but am not sure how that excuses a player from doing the basics right. I agree that the service to Abraham was not great yesterday but whenever he did get the ball, he never looked in total control of it and when there was a chance that came his way, he ended up losing his footing or all unbalanced to get a shot away.

Again, I agree that the whole team played crap yesterday but let's just focus on Abraham individually because using others to justify or back Abraham up is just a poor cover up excuse. And going back to the initial point I made, I wasn't talking specifically about yesterday's game but his overall performances, especially of late.

[Puliiszola 519]

13 minutes ago, Jason said:

Never mind a striker, every player goes through a dip but am not sure how that excuses a player from doing the basics right. I agree that the service to Abraham was not great yesterday but whenever he did get the ball, he never looked in total control of it and when there was a chance that came his way, he ended up losing his footing or all unbalanced to get a shot away.

Again, I agree that the whole team played crap yesterday but let's just focus on Abraham individually because using others to justify or back Abraham up is just a poor cover up excuse. And going back to the initial point I made, I wasn't talking specifically about yesterday's game but his overall performances, especially of late.

I totally accept that his performances have been poor. But let's not say that's been the case all season long. Against liverpool (super Cup) and United (4-0 first gw) losses, his overall play was quite good rather than his finishing. A lot of it has to do with confidence, and something which he will have to and he will learn with time.

It still does not mean we sell/loan him. If that is the case then we need to sell the following list of players from the squad:

Kepa

Reece

Ac

Zouma 

Rudiger

Alonso

Emerson

Jorginho

Barkley

Tammy 

Pedro

Willian.

I even read someone say that we need to sell kante (🤷)

Either we actually need to sell off more than half of our first team squad, or the fans are way off the mark. United were supposed to be so far off the mark. Yet one good signing has made even raahford look world class. That is what the signings are for. Increase the level of everyone around them. 

Unfortunately in modern football, you are only as good as your last performance. Hence the whole squad is shit. While just 2 weeks ago when we beat city, we were going to fight for the title. It's not surprising to be honest. But just frustrating reading such posts and comments. 

 

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

I totally accept that his performances have been poor. But let's not say that's been the case all season long. Against liverpool (super Cup) and United (4-0 first gw) losses, his overall play was quite good rather than his finishing. A lot of it has to do with confidence, and something which he will have to and he will learn with time.

That's the tricky thing here, no? Did Abraham perform well earlier this season because he is good and he is just having a dip in form? OR did he perform well earlier simply because he had one of those purple patches that every player has and his current performances are a reflection of his actual abilities as a player? The drop has been so stark that he can't even do the basics right. If you're struggling, you should always get back to basics. Do the simple things well and the rest will follow but he is not doing that and he is not helping himself or anyone with his bad body language.

11 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Either we actually need to sell off more than half of our first team squad, or the fans are way off the mark. United were supposed to be so far off the mark. Yet one good signing has made even raahford look world class. That is what the signings are for. Increase the level of everyone around them. 

I have not mentioned anything about selling or loaning Abraham like others have but personally, I am yet to be convinced. Abraham simply needs to prove that he can play at the highest level.

And on Rashford, think that he has that WC in him. The one new signing didn't change anything. 

[Puliiszola 519]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

That's the tricky thing here, no? Did Abraham perform well earlier this season because he is good and he is just having a dip in form? OR did he perform well earlier simply because he had one of those purple patches that every player has and his current performances are a reflection of his actual abilities as a player? The drop has been so stark that he can't even do the basics right. If you're struggling, you should always get back to basics. Do the simple things well and the rest will follow but he is not doing that and he is not helping himself or anyone with his bad body language.

I have not mentioned anything about selling or loaning Abraham like others have but personally, I am yet to be convinced. Abraham simply needs to prove that he can play at the highest level.

And on Rashford, think that he has that WC in him. The one new signing didn't change anything. 

On rashford, 

16/17 - 5 goals, 32 appearances,

17/18 - 7 goals, 35 appearances

18/19 - 10 goals, 33 appearances.

At times he looked a better version of Welbeck. But I think again, it's the recency bias.

Regarding, Tammy, I watched him last season with villa or with Swansea. No way do his current performances match to what his real play and potential is. There is something very weird going on with him, but anyone who has watched him for the past 3 seasons, would watch that he is a much better player than the way he has been performing recently. 

And the same can be said for Reece too. He has been dreadful, but no way just it tell us about how well he played at villa or his true potential. I mean this was the same player that kept Zaha in his pocket. 

Anyways, no matter which side you lean on (they are crap who got lucky, or they are good who are playing very poorly), we can't be a 100% sure. Hence my argument of patience. These are young players touted to have great futures by multiple pundits, coaches and our own manager and legend. So the least we can do is not judge them by a 10 game window. In a season where we lost the best PL player and we're unable to replace him, where the fanbase was pretty convinced that top 4 was not even a reality. So all we need is a little perspective. Rewind a year and see how bad things were to where we are now. We are punching above our weight with the squad and specially the injuries. 

 

 

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

Let's remember Abraham is 22. He's been on loans to other teams for like 2-3 seasons.

Its very different to Billy gilmour and even CHO who only really had like 10 games last season.

Mount is a much better comparison by age and experience. Mount fucked up yesterday for the first goal. He's had a crazy dry patch for goals and assists this season. BUT the difference is we can see Mount's quality. He is our best presser by a country mile, he is improving his passing by coming deeper and since the restart we've seen him create chances by being direct with his dribbing and passing. We can see where he is and where he's likely to improve so we accept the bad with the good as he continues to learn.

Abraham at times has good finishing (still impressed by that left footed finish that didn't count against Leicester). But Ings scores goals like that, as do a few others in the PL that aren't good enough for a top 6 team. And that's Abraham's only quality. His movement is piss poor to the point Giroud (!) Out performed him in movement off the ball. He's rarely got control of his body, he doesn't seem to read what passes his team mates give, he's basically a poacher.

He has scored loads of goals but we do make a SHIT TON of chances. How many times am I gonna watch his throw himself at a pass across the six yard box to miss a tap in?

I think he'll improve as a goal scorer but he doesn't have enough tools to be a top striker. Darren Bent, Philips, Ings, Defoe, Craig Bellamy. All scored a good amount of goals every year. None good enough to play for the big boys.

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