The Conte Thread

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Let's not forget how the board failed him last summer, the same board that is now singing his praises. Our transfer window was an utter failure. He got none of his targets. To say Antonio has been a god-send is the understatement of the season. Only God knows we're we'll have been without his tactical nous. Almost half of today's starting XI is not European top club standard but Conte made it look much better than it actually is. Let's not forget that.

[Fernando 6,374]

22 minutes ago, Henrique said:

and they were right. Every team in the world want to improve the quality of their squads, but its not like we cant win with the current squad.

Our squad has a lot of average players. 

We been saying that Conte is over achieving with this squad. The fact we got this far is a great testament to how good Conte is. 

But we seriously need to get better players to upgrade Pedro/Willian, Moses, Cahill, and Alonso. 

Nothing new, I been saying it even before today's game. We still need to improve more. 

[Henrique 9,133]

1 minute ago, Fernando said:

Our squad has a lot of average players. 

We been saying that Conte is over achieving with this squad. The fact we got this far is a great testament to how good Conte is. 

But we seriously need to get better players to upgrade Pedro/Willian, Moses, Cahill, and Alonso. 

Nothing new, I been saying it even before today's game. We still need to improve more. 

Next season with UCL football I would agree. At moment if you look at the other top 6 teams, they are also full of not so great players, so I would not go as far as saying Conte is "over achieving" with this squad.

[Fernando 6,374]

Just now, Henrique said:

Next season with UCL football I would agree. At moment if you look at the other top 6 teams, they are also full of not so great players, so I would not go as far as saying Conte is "over achieving" with this squad.

10th place?

Yes over achieving friend. 

Now is the time to pounce in transfer window to help us make it easier to win that title. And get more prepared for next season. 

[Henrique 9,133]

Just now, Fernando said:

10th place?

Yes over achieving friend. 

Now is the time to pounce in transfer window to help us make it easier to win that title. And get more prepared for next season. 

Thats not a valid argument. Last season the team was a 10th sided place because in the Mourinho games we had a relegation zone performance and record. Everybody with good sense know that team was better than the 10th finish suggested. So its nonsense to bring the position in the last season's table to create this fantastic storytelling that Conte is taking a mid table side and turning it into trophy contenders. Right now 2nd and 3th places belong to Spurs and Liverpool, and those squads are no better than our squad. 

[Leif 6,006]

We will clearly fail under him, we have shown no signs of progress 

[Fernando 6,374]

1 minute ago, Henrique said:

Thats not a valid argument. Last season the team was a 10th sided place because in the Mourinho games we had a relegation zone performance and record. Everybody with good sense know that team was better than the 10th finish suggested. So its nonsense to bring the position in the last season's table to create this fantastic storytelling that Conte is taking a mid table side and turning it into trophy contenders. Right now 2nd and 3th places belong to Spurs and Liverpool, and those squads are no better than our squad. 

The better squads are united and city. 

Especially city, and the difference between Spurs and Liverpool is time. 

Pochetino has been at Spurs more longer, followed by klopp. 

So for a short time frame with a team that was demoralized from last season yes Conte is still over achieving to me. 

[The Chels 2,502]

1 hour ago, Henrique said:

Liverpool and Arsenal games were before the 3-6-1 system, and I would not say Spurs "exposed" the team defensively today. I'm not saying everything is okay in the defense. Azpilicueta is not a CB, and he was used in that position because both Terry and Zouma were injured when Conte decided to give the 3-6-1 system a try. Now that Zouma is back, he must be introduced in this side at some point, with Azpilicueta moving into Moses position.

The problem today was not "exposed defense", but imo Conte failed to deal with Spurs high pressure. The team barely had a midfield in the first half, and the defenders were forced to try long balls to the attacking zone. I thought it was a bad decisions to start Pedro in this one, since this game was more suited to Willian, and perhaps Fabgreas was the ideal starter instead of Matic.

That's true. I might have been harsh by saying we were exposed. Liverpool and Spurs didn't really create all that much in our games with them (but finished well), although against Arsenal and especially City, we conceded too many chances.

Either way, we weren't particularly convincing in any of those big games, and as you mentioned one of the main reasons for that is our inability to cope well with pressing (coupled with our often passive approach limiting our chances going forward). Our standing in the 'top 6 mini league' isn't actually that bad though.

It might be something that won't really be fixed until we get some better players in, but I do hope we at least see some improvement against Liverpool and Arsenal in the upcoming fixtures.

[Magic Lamps 11,441]

IMO it is pretty clear that we can not continue with this formation and/or personnel. This is no overreaction, the cracks have been showing since the first spurs game and ee have not found a solution for that in the big games.  We do not need that many major changes right now but a bit of tweaking would help. Moses and Alonso are clearly defensively overwhelmed in the big games, azpi is too short and matic tends to become a passenger in big games even though he made some vital interceptions today.

 

Maybe we should try something like this in the big games mid term 

 

        Zouma.    David Luiz.   Cahill/new CB

Azpi.           Kante.         New Cm.            Pedro/Moses/new lwb

  Willian/Moses/new Rw.      Hazard

                         Diego Costa

 

However it would require fewer signings if we just change formation back to 4 3 3, add fabregas and simply buy a better left back finally. Esp at Liverpool I fear getting outnumbered in midfield as soon as their full backs push forward

 

 

 

 

 

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

 

This is what I wrote after the City match.

Spurs did basically the same thing to pierce our back line.  Instead of DeBruyne in the right half space, it was Erikson.  2 crosses from exactly the same position.  Almost set Kane up as well from the exact same space.

Have an energetic runner to stay wide to occupy Alonso, then try to get your player with the best delivery to find a soft space between Matic (or Fabs in the City match) and Cahill.  That's the soft space in our formation (they all have one).

The difference between this match and City's was that City pushed men forward and got exposed on the counter.  Spurs' midfield was really good today, I have to say.  Alli was playing the "Hazard" position and he was back winning the ball in midfield.  Dembele and Wanyama were too much for Matic and Kante, too quick, too strong.  City didn't have that.  They were playing Gundogan and Fernandinho.  One of our goals came when Gundogan got too far forward and lost the ball.

Alderweireld was really good as well, neutralized Costa.  IMO.

Oh well, had to lose some time.  On to the next.

It's a sign of how much Conte has raised expectations.  Before the season, I would have bitten your hand off for top 4.  Now, we're talking about titles and breaking records.  Hopefully, it's a reminder to the board that we're no where close to the finished article.

 

[OneMoSalah 8,609]

Aye so it took one game after 13 STRAIGHT wins for people to suggest 1) we need a new system 2) Conte will fail 3) Azpi is not a CB 4) we've not shown any progress... need I go on? Quite embarrassing. One game doesn't win or lose you a championship in January. We will definitely finish top 4 and I'd be very surprised if anybody thought that we'd achieve that this year based on last season. 

[Magic Lamps 11,441]

6 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Aye so it took one game after 13 STRAIGHT wins for people to suggest 1) we need a new system 2) Conte will fail 3) Azpi is not a CB 4) we've not shown any progress... need I go on? Quite embarrassing. One game doesn't win or lose you a championship in January. We will definitely finish top 4 and I'd be very surprised if anybody thought that we'd achieve that this year based on last season. 

Nope. The cracks have been there all the time with people on this forum pointing them out continuously. Just visit the Alonso, Cahill, Matic and match threads. Off this is criticising on a high level but it is still allowed. 

Also

1) 433 is hardly a new system. But we might ponder changing the formation to add some tactical flexibility. No one suggested we have to adapt to something completely different.

2) no idea who said that. Sure he will fail at some point. Might be this season or in 5 years. But who knows...

3) Azpi is no CB and people here insisted that since the very beginning of 343. He also is no lb and no wing back. But he is too good to leave him out.

4) I thought that was irony by whoever posted that.clearly we have shown progress esp in games against minor opposition. Though I expected more from us today and I guess I am not the only one.

 

Finally ofc we should be top 4. We got the 3rd best squad in the league, 4 absolute world class players and loads of decent ones. We got the 3rd highest budget and world class facilities, a huge brand etc. We should be top 4 consistently without doing an Arsenal and celebrating top four like a trophy. That is the bare minimum you should expect from us no matter what kind of toxic atmosphere killed us last season.

 

[OneMoSalah 8,609]

1 minute ago, Magic Lamps said:

Nope. The cracks have been there all the time with people on this forum pointing them out continuously. Just visit the Alonso, Cahill, Matic and match threads. Off this is criticising on a high level but it is still allowed. 

Also

1) 433 is hardly a new system. But we might ponder changing the formation to add some tactical flexibility. No one suggested we have to adapt to something completely different.

2) no idea who said that. Sure he will fail at some point. Might be this season or in 5 years. But who knows...

3) Azpi is no CB and people here insisted that since the very beginning of 343. He also is no lb and no wing back. But he is too good to leave him out.

4) I thought that was irony by whoever posted that.clearly we have shown progress esp in games against minor opposition. Though I expected more from us today and I guess I am not the only one.

 

Finally ofc we should be top 4. We got the 3rd best squad in the league, 4 absolute world class players and loads of decent ones. We got the 3rd highest budget and world class facilities, a huge brand etc. We should be top 4 consistently without doing an Arsenal and celebrating top four like a trophy. That is the bare minimum you should expect from us no matter what kind of toxic atmosphere killed us last season.

 

We got humiliated at Arsenal and Liverpool (score line wasn't exactly flattering but we were really poor until 75th minute) playing with 433, I don't think it's right for us or Conte would never have changed it.

I would hardly call them major cracks, there is no perfect team with a perfect system, the best team I have ever seen which is Barca under Pep or Spain couldn't defend against long balls. We struggled with pressing. It's a work in progress, to ditch 343 would be stupid because we've seen more improvement with it than anybody expected including myself. It's something that we need to keep using and keep adding players to, competition/a better player in for Alonso and Moses wouldn't go  amiss or a creative midfielder but that will come. If you get in a new manager of Conte's calibre let him work, he switched the formation after a few games and we went from top 4 contenders to title favourites without any major additions bar Luiz, Kante and Alonso. Imagine if he can get other players in that could fit in this team, to bring it up a level like Kante has done and perhaps even Luiz has done.

Everybody forgets where we were last season, regardless of winning the league the previous year or not, because even in the last 6 months before we were confirmed champions we were piss poor a lot of the time. 

Axpilicueta has played some of his best football for us at CB. So people who criticized him regarding today's performance or whatever must have not been watching the last 3 months because he's been our best defender in my eyes.

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

What a journey this has been, enjoyed every bit of it. We was bound to this kind of result at some point, but if there is someone at the club that has earned the right to it then it's this wonderful manager we now have in charge.

No signs of improvement?! Oh give me a break. 13 on the trot and the 14th match was away at a very, very good Tottenham side and we've managed to limit them to only two shots on target. A team that would normally dominate opponents with ease at home and create tons of chances to score.

Had Hazard not missed them two sitters then probably the drama queens would still be under their rocks now. It was a pretty even game in which probably Chelsea could have got a better result, but by no means it was that bad as some of you make it sound.

Chelsea could open an eight point gap next round when Liverpool play United away and City visit Everton. We then play Hull at home where the three points should be an easy task, then Liverpool away and Arsenal at home. Take 8-10 points from this four matches and title is pretty much ours to lose. We'd be left with only two big matches until the end of the season, both against the Manchester clubs in April.

Personally I can't see anyone past Chelsea to the league title. If we keep the concentration levels high, which I know we will given our manager in charge, then Chelsea should win it. 

[Alabama 1,992]

The atmosphere right is quite abysmal...words are not enough to quantify or describe how Conte has been a revelation to the team and d club entirely...bearing in mind most of his transfer target were not gotten at the end of the day...barring the high pressure and intensity we failed to cope with we were okay yesterday cos of the number of chances we limited them to...IMO we even cope better and fair better than City when they visited WHL...13wins in a row different shapes formation conditions we were subjected to in the 13 winning run yet we came out triumphant and won d matches gallantly...yet some fellas clamouring we didn't improve under him...absolute hypocrisy...m done here...

[kellzfresh 7,226]

7 hours ago, Blue-in-me-Veins said:

James York had a very good stat highlighting how night and day we are vs the top 6 and the rest. 

But if you look at today's result, we broke that trend. 

Today's match was not horrific. A la Liverpool/Arsenal. Spurs were the better team, no doubt, but they didn't really "destroy us". What today's match does show, is that, much like we've been ruthless towards other clubs, Spurs were ruthless when they created their chances. Look at the Xg map. 

What annoyed me the most about today was just the abjectness of the wingbacks in Alonso/Moses. They really really let us down today. Failed to keep possesion/win their battles. Alonso  kept getting beat 1v1 vs any body he faced, and Moses played Alli onside for their first goal, and offered very little in attack until we went 2-0 down. 

 

Exactly. This explains it perfectly. Conte didn't do well by taking longer to bring on fabregas, but the individual performances of our players were shocking. Kante, Luiz, Pedro, Moses, Alonso, and even Azpi were terrible. None of them could complete a pass all game, they were so bad under pressure.. Tottenham just matched us in formation and dominated us in midfield with better combination of dembele and wayanma (who had hazard in his pocket) while rose and walker dominated us on the wings against terrible Alonso and Moses on the other side. 

The individual quality of the tottenham players showed over us. While hazard is the 2nd best dribbler in Europe, he's normal in finishing and Alli got two chances and scored, hazard bottled his two chances. Like I said before, once hazard ain't dribbling well we struggle and wayanma hustled him all game.

Conte has been protecting the poor technical quality of our players with his tactics but Tottenham matched us with the same style of play, and they had the better back three who are all one on one defenders, better wingbacks who are both fast and can beat their man one on one and midfield duo who are fantastic under pressure compared to Matic/kante and it showed.

[manpe 10,855]

3 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Aye so it took one game after 13 STRAIGHT wins for people to suggest 1) we need a new system 2) Conte will fail 3) Azpi is not a CB 4) we've not shown any progress... need I go on? Quite embarrassing. One game doesn't win or lose you a championship in January. We will definitely finish top 4 and I'd be very surprised if anybody thought that we'd achieve that this year based on last season. 

Chill, number 2 and 4 were obviously sarcastic jokes, written by @Leif. Need I say more? And claiming Azpi not to be a CB and suggesting a system change are all valid discussions, you may not agree with those statements, but they are valid points of discussion for an internet forum.

 

8 hours ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

Let's not forget how the board failed him last summer, the same board that is now singing his praises. Our transfer window was an utter failure. He got none of his targets.

Kante, Alonso.

[Henrique 9,133]

8 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Aye so it took one game after 13 STRAIGHT wins for people to suggest 1) we need a new system 2) Conte will fail 3) Azpi is not a CB 4) we've not shown any progress... need I go on? Quite embarrassing. One game doesn't win or lose you a championship in January. We will definitely finish top 4 and I'd be very surprised if anybody thought that we'd achieve that this year based on last season. 

OMFG.

What is embarrassing is saying Azpi  suddenly became a CB after playing 13 games in that position as a 27 years old player. Azpi is not even a LB, he is a RB playing out of position as a CB because Conte didn't have enough CBs available when he decided to play with 3 CBs, but didn't become a CB because the team won 13 straight games while he was playing in that position, he was always a temporary fix. So people are not "suggesting" Azpi is not a CB, they are stating a fact.