Jump to content
Join Talk Chelsea and join in with the discussions! Click Here

The Mourinho Thread


 Share
Followers 4

Recommended Posts

Well done Carlo, but I think Mourinho did a good job at RM especially given the circumstances after the dressing room was missed.

I don't like to get into this debate atm because Jose just went through a trophy less season with us while Carlo just won a double so there are bound to be bias from both sides but this last point of you is in a way criticizing Jose. They don't start it unless Jose did something,which he clearly seems to do as almost every single top player at Real was mad with him in the end.

You should read that new book by Diego Torres written about Jose, seems to have some element of truth behind it even though he aimed to slate Jose throughout the whole book. Jose basically once abused Pedro Leon for no reason and tried to sign Hudo Ameilda(spelling) for Real LOL.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 38.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Jas

    1684

  • Fernando

    1139

  • xPetrCechx

    1102

  • Tomo

    871

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I love how the media have even managed to brainwash even a section off our own supporters with this bus parking bollox, it's truly unbelievable. The games in question mainly were Old Trafford, The Em

I'm genuinely surprised by how some don't seem to realize how bad the situation really is. This is by far worse than any of the 'bad runs' by any of our previous managers. It's our worst start to a se

Posted Images

Guardiola would never make a team like the Porto of Mou win the Champions League. He has already worsened Bayern's already perfect squad. What a dumb overrated prick Gaydiola is..

I wouldn't say he's overrated as such, I mean he is very knowledgeable but I do agree with you. Mourinho won things with Porto and Inter Milan weren't they weren't in a position to win such things. What Porto and Inter did in Europe especially goes a long way to his pedigree and that's why Real Madrid came calling for him.

Pep has taken an easy route in Germany, come on Bayern are the premier house in Germany right now because he's got them when Ribery, Robben, Schweini etc have matured. Until he takes charge of a team who's not challenging yet and reaches unexpected heights I don't think he can be put in the same bracket as Mourinho.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like to get into this debate atm because Jose just went through a trophy less season with us while Carlo just won a double so there are bound to be bias from both sides but this last point of you is in a way criticizing Jose. They don't start it unless Jose did something,which he clearly seems to do as almost every single top player at Real was mad with him in the end.

You should read that new book by Diego Torres written about Jose, seems to have some element of truth behind it even though he aimed to slate Jose throughout the whole book. Jose basically once abused Pedro Leon for no reason and tried to sign Hudo Ameilda(spelling) for Real LOL.

You need to know who is Diego Torres (you know who is Jorge Valdano?), Manolo Lama, Alfredo Relaño and some others.

One example, is the opinion of Mr Palomar (chief Marca journalist): "Mourinho is the typical person that would leave the scene of of an accident produced by him" (Marca).

Another great one from Boyero a journalist that works in the same paper of Diego Torres (El Pais) :"A very dangerous person. He (Mourinho) knows the metodology to bring the worst out of people. Football should be a sport played by men, not by beasts. The portuguese Nazi want football to be played by beasts."

That's the kind of person that wrote that wonderful book, because Mr Torres has a bigger problem with Mourinho... You know... Valdano had a 2.4M€/season contract in Real Madrid.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
"Mourinho is the typical person that would leave the scene of of an accident produced by him".

What a ridiculous and bitchy statement. The culprit was sued by Mou. The Marca started a campaign against Mourinho during his spell because Mourinho was the first coach to question Marca's power in Real Madrid. Mr Palomar also referred to Mourinho as a 'Nazi'. Mourinho filed a case against him and Palomar had to promise that he wouldn't say such things again and accepted a painful punishment. Such bastards at Marca. Hijos de puta

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, Carlo did what Mourinho couldn't. With the team RM already had we can't really talk about Isco, Bale, Illara when he already had Alonso, di Maria, Ronaldo, Benz, Pipita, Ozil... RM had a great team and Carlo actually improved Madrid's tactics. He played Alonso and Modric in their rightful positions imo, he moved di María to a third man position in the midfield that was surprising. He took a lot of risks. I cursed his moves a lot at the beginning of the season because he wouldn't make changes when his ideas weren't being much productive, but he was right. He was sticking to his ideas and it paid off with La Décima. His RM though was a shame in La Liga. They should have won it, but they tanked in the last 4-5 games... it was sort of ridiculous some of their games, but I'm not sure if it wasn't because their minds were already in UCL final. There has been an obsession at Madrid with winning La Décima. Good thing it's behind the club now.

I didn't follow much of RM this season because I still have many issues with Florentino Crazy Perez, but the Bale signing paid off and well, good for RM...

I don't discredit Mourinho to losing to the teams he did in all those lost UCL SF, but I do think he needs to improve his repertoire. He's been a bit stuck in the same tactics and systems and he needs to adapt better and start offering answers when we need them. I prefer Carlo's RM to Mourinho's, partially because of more suitable (not better or worse) tactics and because he didn't have half of the dressing room against him like Mou did. Mou did nothing wrong to those mother fuckers that went against him. He was doing his job and they weren't doing theirs properly... but shit like this happens (it happened here too) and everyone involved payed for it.

It'll have a special taste to succeed RM as UCL champions :P Maybe even over them ;)

Well done Carlo, but I think Mourinho did a good job at RM especially given the circumstances after the dressing room was missed.

I am not sure why Mou never tried that. Probably stubbornness or maybe would have done that if he had Bale or another option on the LW. Some people(not pointing at you) act like Carlo reinvented Di maria or something, but i watched Argentina so many times last season where Di Maria flourished as a CM for them. Its not really a major surprise that he flourished as a CM at club level, the consistency he showed this season was for me surprising though.

I actually admire that trait of Carlo he is not stubborn as Mou and i feel like Mou let his ego get in the way. When Carlo was here he continued Guus experiment of Ivanovic on the right, playing Drogba+Anelka(RW), and Malouda continuation of form. That is a good management skill to have being able to adapt others idea. Sabella experimented Di Maria in midfield and he was a major success for the NT. If anyone should be credited for Di Maria transformation it should be him.

As for Carlo him winning the CL surpass Mou achievement at Madrid, he is a better manager for Madrid. But next season it will be interesting with La Dacima being achieved and being a major obsession with the club. Carlo has his work cut out for him in trying to keep that squad motivated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol at people getting mad about comparing Mou and Carlo in a Mou thread. Jose>>>>>Carlo.

Carlo did what he had to do though.

Guardiola was given the greatest Barca team, and one of the greatest clubs ever, Mou won with Porto and Inter. And he has succeeded in 4 different leagues, Pep had success with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta in Spain. He had a good 1st season in Germany with a Bayern squad that looked like it was gonna dominate football for years.

As for numbers:

Porto (2002–2004)

Primeira Liga (2)

Taça de Portugal (1)

Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira (1)

UEFA Champions League (1)

UEFA Cup (1)

Chelsea (2004–2007)

Premier League (2)

FA Cup (1)

Football League Cup (2)

Community Shield (1)

Internazionale (2008–2010)

Serie A (2)

Coppa Italia (1)

Supercoppa Italiana (1)

UEFA Champions League (1)

Real Madrid (2010–2013)

La Liga (1)

Copa del Rey (1)

Supercopa de España (1)

When these other coaches win all the major trophies you can win in a league (excluding CL) multiple times they will be better than Mou. Or if they can win with one team for 25+ years, ala Sir Alex.

Lol, the fanboyism is strong with this one. So what happened when Mourinho was given squads much better than Porto's and Inter's at Chelsea and Real, let me spell it out for you, 6 CL semis, 0 win, zilch, nada, naught, 1 cup and 1 copa with hundreds of millions of dollars spent in 3 years. The truth is, Jose is sort of a one trick pony, albeit he's extremely good at this trick. If he can't park the bus and has to play attacking football, his team will struggle. For this reason, he has been and will succeed at teams aiming to upset the established order like Chelsea (his first stint), Inter, Porto, etc. but he has been and will fail at teams which are expected to play with dignity and flair like Real.
Link to post
Share on other sites

No wonder Mourinho is referred to as The Special One. Anything and everything will also be about Mourinho, even when it's not to begin with. People are just obsessed.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

this one reason I don't want real to win the champions league with Carlo first spell the stone thrown at Jose will speak move mountain

I think it's okay either way. Carlo accomplished something Mourinho didn't. That means nothing. Only one manager gets to win UCL in a season. Mourinho was close a few times, but he wasn't the only one not to lift it in the last few seasons.

I'm not criticizing Mourinho for not winning it, but I've been saying for a while he needs to add more options to his systems. Most changes Carlo did involved players that were already in RM when Mourinho was there. Mourinho really wasted Modric, who looked mediocre while Mou was there, overloaded Alonso, and it seems like he didn't use di María in the best way. I wasn't aware Angel played like that for Argentina as @Joker10 said. I only followed Belgium and Germany in the last couple of years in terms of NT. Not even Brazil NT I've watched except for two matches in the Confeds Cup.

Mourinho is too loyal to his convictions and systems which is a good thing, but he needs to spread his vision a bit. His style needs some minor adjustments and he needs to offer more offensively. I think that's where he's lacking a bit, how to organize effectively the attack (although clearly his main issue at RM in addition to the dressing room, was the midfield). With us I feel like we have a good set up for the midfield, but I said a lot of times at the beginning of the season I think our squad is more suited to a 4-3-3 than a 4-2-3-1, but he won't let the 4-2-3-1 go. So either he signs the players to make that happen or he has to move to a 4-3-3. It's just some small adjustments, I'm not complaining about Mourinho. He had a season to evaluate Chelsea and English football (neither are the same from the last time he was here) and now he has to make his move.

Some managers are more suitable for some certain kind of squads. Mourinho seems to want to make a lot of changes in Chelsea despite his speech of needing only 2-3 clinical signings. Letting go of Mata, Luiz, Cole and probably Lamps (I think at this point it's 50/50 and the board and Mou may be waiting for the WC to decide if Lamps will be replaced or not by another B2B player) means he's starting from scratch. I think there are big chances of Courtois coming next season already although all the rumors right now state he'll stay at Atleti till 2015. So either he signs the players to make a 4-2-3-1 effective or he adapts to the 4-3-3 the squad is better suited for.

We could have a midfield with Matic-Oscar-Willian or Matic-Ramires-Oscar/Willian followed by Hazard and one between Schurrle or Salah with a striker ahead of them as it works infinitely better than any 4-2-3-1 set up with the players we currently have. I think Oscar and Willian working side by side ahead, as B2B players against weaker sides and replacing either of them for Ramires (bleh) against strongest sides would be ideal. We've been way too defensive, which is okay because we weren't ready to be more offensive, but it definitely has to change next season. We don't need to be as cautious as we've been especially against small/medium sides. Willian showed he can handle EPL's physicality - something that worried me - and Oscar can play well in a 4-3-3 (but I don't think he can do it in the pivot in a 4-2-3-1), as he does for Brazil, although Brazil has two pivot players behind him... for some matches we could have Matic and Ramires, but for many others Wills and Oscar is more than enough to handle opposition's midfield and still give us versatility, vertical transition and quality pass. Then of course, we'll rely in Hazard even more to be creative while the other wing with either Schurrle or Salah will be basically about pace and verticality. Oscar can be Lamps of the old in a 4-3-3 imo, but can't in a 4-2-3-1. Mourinho has to figure out what he'll do with it. I hope he watches tons of Brazil matches and realize how effective Oscar is playing as the third man in the midfield, but I'm not sure he'll let go of his 4-2-3-1 fixation. In case he keeps the 4-2-3-1 I think Hazard could be moved to #10 with Willian in one wing and one between Schurrle and Salah in the other. Then there's no effective place for Oscar in the team other than being Hazard replacement - and we've seen Mourinho plans to play Eden all matches. Oscar doesn't offer much in the wing and he struggled playing #10 in a 4-2-3-1.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol, the fanboyism is strong with this one. So what happened when Mourinho was given squads much better than Porto's and Inter's at Chelsea and Real, let me spell it out for you, 6 CL semis, 0 win, zilch, nada, naught, 1 cup and 1 copa with hundreds of millions of dollars spent in 3 years. The truth is, Jose is sort of a one trick pony, albeit he's extremely good at this trick. If he can't park the bus and has to play attacking football, his team will struggle. For this reason, he has been and will succeed at teams aiming to upset the established order like Chelsea (his first stint), Inter, Porto, etc. but he has been and will fail at teams which are expected to play with dignity and flair like Real.

What hundreds of millions were spent by Mourinho in Madrid?

Mourinho in 2010 spent 83M£, in 2011 53M£ and finally in 2012 30M£. Here you have your hundreds of millions.

"Pellegrini" spent in 2009 230M£, and "Ancelotti" spent 150M£ in 2013.

Teams that spent more than Mourinho in that 3 years:

Manchester City
2012 55M£
2011 85M£
2010 85M£
Chelsea
2012 101M£
2011 91M£
2010 111M£
PSG
2012 131M£
2011 93M£
And I think many would be really surprised to see, how Real Madrid spend almost the same money as Barcelona and Bayern for example in that period.
And obviously Madrid had a great players before Mourinho, had great players with Mourinho, and have great players now.
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Mourinho is too loyal to his convictions and systems which is a good thing, but he needs to spread his vision a bit. His style needs some minor adjustments and he needs to offer more offensively. I think that's where he's lacking a bit, how to organize effectively the attack (although clearly his main issue at RM in addition to the dressing room, was the midfield). With us I feel like we have a good set up for the midfield, but I said a lot of times at the beginning of the season I think our squad is more suited to a 4-3-3 than a 4-2-3-1, but he won't let the 4-2-3-1 go. So either he signs the players to make that happen or he has to move to a 4-3-3. It's just some small adjustments, I'm not complaining about Mourinho. He had a season to evaluate Chelsea and English football (neither are the same from the last time he was here) and now he has to make his move.

:clap:

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is no doubt important to defend with 8 at the very least(important matches anyways), 4-2-3-1 implies a more complicated and less natural defensive scheme for attackers. 4-3-3 is prob the most fashionable formation atm as you have 3 midfielders which is one more that 4-2-3-1 while one of the three forwards can help from a little to alot depending on opponent.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is no doubt important to defend with 8 at the very least(important matches anyways), 4-2-3-1 implies a more complicated and less natural defensive scheme for attackers. 4-3-3 is prob the most fashionable formation atm as you have 3 midfielders which is one more that 4-2-3-1 while one of the three forwards can help from a little to alot depending on opponent.

The 4-2-3-1 isn't as rigid as you're trying to make it sound. Someone like Oscar can easily drop off to alter the shape into a true 4-3-3.
Link to post
Share on other sites

The 4-4-2 was destroyed by Jose when he came to England. Brought his 4-3-3, stuck an extra man in midfield and we dominated. I actually think that there could be a change next season, and we might move away from the 4-2-3-1.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The 4-2-3-1 isn't as rigid as you're trying to make it sound. Someone like Oscar can easily drop off to alter the shape into a true 4-3-3.

I think one of the reasons Jose has stuck with the 4-2-3-1 is because you can have a more attacking counter setup, my point being that with a 4-3-3 you always have three midfielders, you have more midfield tools to pass, block, intercept, etc, with the 4-2-3-1 yes you can drop off but that also comes with a bit of a connotation that, that is not their main purpose, which is different with a 4-3-3. With 4-2-3-1 you can arguably notice the lack of forward tracking, something that was seen from hazard against atletico for example.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The 4-4-2 was destroyed by Jose when he came to England. Brought his 4-3-3, stuck an extra man in midfield and we dominated. I actually think that there could be a change next season, and we might move away from the 4-2-3-1.

Change to what? Problem is, not a lot of teams genuinely play a rigid 4-4-2 anymore.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...