The Mourinho Thread

[didierforever 7,349]

Maybe this time you will get angry, i have seen you go on rampage my friend.

According to Mourinho Baba had fitness problems in the past, but he is adapting to the task, i am totally sure that a 21 year old defender will get more playing time very soon!

I refer to Zouma, he is a bright example in that aspect!

I like Zouma he is maturing quickly, but man, have you seen his passing?! Furthermore he also got owned on the wing, was it against Crystal Palace? Not sure, sorry.

It's arguably up for discussion who would be the better fit, at least that's my point of view.

Sadly we have changed our approach, nowadays the club really likes to sell players, especially when a new expensive guy is coming.

That strategy improves the line-up, but depth gets fucked so bad...

From my understanding Mourinho didn't want to sell most of the players who have left the club, but now it's all about balancing the books, otherwise the attitude in the market would have been different.

Jose already said that he is just the manager, he makes his recommendations but it's up to the board to get shit done!

Jose is an arrogant prick who doesn't take shit from anyone, the phrase: "Jose knows best" does exist not for nothing.

Everton fucked us, they scored and we hadn't an answer for the scum that day, what did Mourinho do? Instead of bringing on Willian who had played badly before, he chose to bring on Kenedy.

He grabbed his balls and rewarded putting up a good show in training.

He trusted John Terry until this season, he wanted to buy John Stones, but the board failed him, nevertheless his home is now on the bench.

That's rutheless!

Loftus-Cheek gets more and more playing time, what about Traore? He chose him instead of Cuadrado who is doing more than okay in Italy now, really interesting.

Your enumeration about Ainas strengths goes down like clockwork, fairplay to you, but have you seen Aina play in the Premier-League? I don't!

Can the kid deliver under huge pressure? Surely they will target him all the time!

The same can be said about this Salter guy, i remain sceptical.

But i am having a hunch that you have seen both of them play a lot, so i respect your opinion, but sorry mate, i am still unconvinced because of the lack of first league football.

Jose Mourinho made a huge mistake by not using one of them during preseason, that should have been some test!

Generelly Jose should have experimented a lot more, but we don't have a time machine, he has to learn from his mistakes, only the future will tell!

We don't need to talk about most of the passes from Ivanovic, far too much have been utterly woeful, some day they will be costly!

A lot of his crossings are imprecise, nonetheless Remy could have buried that ball against Newcastle United.

His harmonious interaction between his offensive and defensive play has been out of balance for quite some time, but it's not that bad anymore, still not good, that's true!

Yes, some of his positioning have been bad too, lol.

Still, after John Terry is on the bench and Baba not ready yet, maybe soon, but at present i can understand why Jose plays Ivanovic.

I think that the team is really missing leadership, yes, the Serbian dude got fucked a lot, but he has personality which you can't buy and although he is making mistakes,

he is respected and the necessary authority on the field.

The way you speak you have seen a lot more than me, so i give you credit where credit is due.

i think u have confused baba and RLC here. i dont remember jose saying anything about baba's fitness. i may be wrong but i honestly cant remember. as for him having fitness issues, i think baba played some 30 league matches or something last year, did not he?

also, i dont remember zouma playing on the wing against palace. he played as a CB. fair point about his passing but have u seen azpi's passing on the left? the guy has to continously switch feet to change the ball from left to right, losing precious seconds and giving defenders the time to get back. not blaming azpi, he is right footed and should be played as one. zouma would hardly be a hindrance to our attack down the left. jose played zouma as a LB against arsenal in CS. so apparently that was something which he has thought of. so why has not he tried that on the pitch. its been 10 games in the season now. not just 3/4 poor games.

the buying and selling u r talking about is for the guys like mata and luiz. luis being sold for 11mil and buying baba for 21 mil was hardly balancing the books or even maintaining the quality. maybe baba will be a gem for later years, but right now we are getting screwed big time. so i cant blame the board for it.

what about cesc and iva? are they training so well that their hopeless performances match after match is being rewarded by start after start?

i am sorry, but what exactly has JT done wrong to be made to be benched?

RLC gets play time against tel aviv and walsall. he can find as good opponents as them in the under-21 league. why was RLC not on even on the bench against newcastle after putting in 2 MOTM performances? hell, he should have been on the pitch starting the game. these useless minutes in cup games against weak oppositions mean nothing when the team is getting beaten and over run every game in the PL.

[Hybrid Angel 2,130]

I don't see the hype around Ancelotti. He shares many managerial characteristics with Mourinho. Lack of rotation, short-term manager, too stubborn to fix the issues, etc. The only major difference between them is their picture in the media. I'm 100% against him coming back.

While I'm still not fully comfortable with Mourinho leaving, if it does become a reality, the manager we should be aiming for should be the opposite of Mourinho and Ancelotti. Someone young, passionate, hungry for success. Someone who has brand new footballing ideas that fit modern Football.

Unai Emery is one to keep an eye on...

[stroey 2,525]

http://www.chelseafc.com/news/latest-news/2015/09/mourinho--a-view-of-two-halves.html

Mourinho: A view of two halves

[Azul 1,615]

Be patient guys, just give him a season then will see whether we failed or succeeded.

[zolayes 14,489]

notice Kalas started at rb for Boro has anyone seen Ake lately he played LB for us a few years ago ,, btw Jack Cork is doing well at Swansea . SIGHS

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Exactly, its quite funny the rewriting of history when it comes to Carlos spell here, the second season was beyond woeful, people cite second place, 71 points won't get top 4 most season's.

Also not to mention the same people wanting Mou sacked calling for Carlo or Klopp, one went on a run for us much worse than this andthe other was bottom of the league for a lot of last season.

Precisely. The 2010/11 season was abysmal. Granted we weren't helped by long-term injuries to Lampard and Drogba's bout of malaria, plus the whole Torres fiasco which destroyed the team's shape and balance, but the football we played was worse than what we've ever seen under Mourinho. And 71 points in the league that season was pathetic. Arguably the worse United side in history and we finished nine points behind them.

The same people who want Mou out now were probably calling for his head in 2007 but then singing his name at Birmingham in the FA Cup in di Matteo's first game, after AVB had been sacked. Football is fickle but the fans are even worse. Let's stick by Jose because he's done a hell of a lot more good for this club than bad.

notice Kalas started at rb for Boro has anyone seen Ake lately he played LB for us a few years ago ,, btw Jack Cork is doing well at Swansea . SIGHS

Playing for Middlesbrough and doing well for Swansea is a far-cry from doing the same at a world-class football club with ambitions of silverware though, Ron.

The way people on here generally over-rate our former youth products amazes me. Shall we re-sign Lalkovic because he forced Begovic into a save from the free-kick leading to Walsall's goal, too?

[coolhead23 1,146]

Kudos! Everything is superbly articulated which is a fact! But,,,,

But than again I may be a Chelsea hater cause I refused to see last season wins and trophies as a justification for mediocre football, unimaginative tactics and everything mentioned above.

This is bloody EPIC!!!!! :tophat: :tophat: :tophat:

Nailed it...

[coolhead23 1,146]

Playing for Middlesbrough and doing well for Swansea is a far-cry from doing the same at a world-class football club with ambitions of silverware though, Ron.

The way people on here generally over-rate our former youth products amazes me. Shall we re-sign Lalkovic because he forced Begovic into a save from the free-kick leading to Walsall's goal, too?

I agree that the quality coming through should be really good for a world class football club like us ... however how do u define quality for the youth? I know lot of us stating they are not ready, hence we send them out on loan. Now despite a player having a decent to good season (for a few) in a different club we still say that they are still not ready. So how are we going to gauge who is ready to be part of the first team, because right now I dont see anyone making it here ...

When we look around in the other teams and we dont see players going out on loans to prove themselves ... it is manager & his backroom staff who needs to make that trust/belief in the players ... United put in quite a few youngsters last season, Arsenal has been doing so, Liverpool has given a run to the 18-19 yrs old ... And if i m not wrong they werent out on loan for so long. Also do you think they were better than what we have purely based on the Youth level games, because i think currently we do a have a better lot.

You get potential players from the youth into the 11 when you take that risk and believe in the talent the kid has... Not everyone will be a success which is a fact but we need to atleast try ... Now are you stating that we dont have even one who we can trust from the academy in all these years (please dont say RLC).

[BlueLion. 21,491]

I agree that the quality coming through should be really good for a world class football club like us ... however how do u define quality for the youth? I know lot of us stating they are not ready, hence we send them out on loan. Now despite a player having a decent to good season (for a few) in a different club we still say that they are still not ready. So how are we going to gauge who is ready to be part of the first team, because right now I dont see anyone making it here ...

When we look around in the other teams and we dont see players going out on loans to prove themselves ... it is manager & his backroom staff who needs to make that trust/belief in the players ... United put in quite a few youngsters last season, Arsenal has been doing so, Liverpool has given a run to the 18-19 yrs old ... And if i m not wrong they werent out on loan for so long. Also do you think they were better than what we have purely based on the Youth level games, because i think currently we do a have a better lot.

You get potential players from the youth into the 11 when you take that risk and believe in the talent the kid has... Not everyone will be a success which is a fact but we need to atleast try ... Now are you stating that we dont have even one who we can trust from the academy in all these years (please dont say RLC).

1) I define youth quality as someone who is able to make an impact at Chelsea. We send kids out elsewhere - but they don't even get games for the likes of Bournemouth (I'm using the Atsu example here). That suggests that, if they can't play for Bournemouth (with all due respect), they don't have much chance of making it at Chelsea. A player is ready to be part of the first-team when they prove they are. We can all criticise Mourinho for his lack of faith in youth products, but the fact he's given playing time to RLC and Kenedy is encouraging. Even then, I don't think either of them are "ready" as they are just kids, and will only become "ready" with experience. However, they have made an impact already by imposing themselves on the manager's plans - so I would classify those players as youth quality.

2) No, I don't think the players at Arsenal like Bellerin, or Joe Gomez at Liverpool, or Wilson or Blackett at United, are any better than our current crop of kids. At teams like Arsenal and Liverpool where mediocrity is an expectation, you can give more game time to youngsters. At Chelsea, it is a lot harder, because we're expected to win games - and you have to admit we're far more likely to win matches with Diego Costa up front rather than Solanke or Bamford. Jose's track record of bringing youngsters through is not as poor as some people make it out to be, but it is poor in comparison to Wenger and Rodgers, but both of them seem comfortable with finishing in fourth or fifth. Jose just can't take the risk here. Everybody praised Ancelotti for supposedly bringing youth players through the ranks, but the only players he gave consistent chances to were Bruma (who after getting annihilated by Heskey in the 3-3 draw with Villa) and McEachran (who we all vastly overrated on the basis of a half-decent first touch and the ability to play one/two-touch passes). Otherwise we went with the tried and trusted old-timers like Cole, Ballack, Belletti. Yes, you can argue Jose could trust in the youth a little more - but can he afford to? With results being this bad already I don't think he's going to have too many opportunities to do so. You can turn around and say that a kid would player better than any of the first team did in the first half against Newcastle, but this is a quality squad that is unfortunately suffering from a crisis of confidence. You don't become bad players overnight, but to start the likes of Traore or Kenedy over Hazard or Oscar would be ridiculous, because despite having poor matches, it only takes one moment of genius (i.e. the Ramires screamer for the 2-1) to get us back into the game.

3) Trust has to be gained. The players need to seize their opportunities, it's as simple as that. Regardless of how few and far between they are, if you want to play for the top clubs you've got to take those chances. How many 18 year olds do Real Madrid play? One or two, yes - when they're 4-0 up and can afford to bring off one of their multiple superstars. We don't have that luxury. I think we have an outstandingly good youth academy and there are one or two diamonds like Charlie Colkett who could go on to become special, special players. But they won't get too many chances at a club that has to win every game, hence why they go out on loan - and if they can't do it in League 1, for instance, then we know it's unlikely they'll be able to do it in a Champions League semi-final in the Camp Nou.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Be patient guys, just give him a season then will see whether we failed or succeeded.

Yup. This. Not enjoying Jose at all but at least give him till the end of the season. Sacking him now solves nothing. I'd rather wait till the end of the season before that even becomes an option, so that we can consider our options properly.

[Billy. 2,739]

Your enumeration about Ainas strengths goes down like clockwork, fairplay to you, but have you seen Aina play in the Premier-League? I don't!

Can the kid deliver under huge pressure? Surely they will target him all the time!

The same can be said about this Salter guy, i remain sceptical.

But i am having a hunch that you have seen both of them play a lot, so i respect your opinion, but sorry mate, i am still unconvinced because of the lack of first league football.

Jose Mourinho made a huge mistake by not using one of them during preseason, that should have been some test!

Generelly Jose should have experimented a lot more, but we don't have a time machine, he has to learn from his mistakes, only the future will tell!

We don't need to talk about most of the passes from Ivanovic, far too much have been utterly woeful, some day they will be costly!

A lot of his crossings are imprecise, nonetheless Remy could have buried that ball against Newcastle United.

His harmonious interaction between his offensive and defensive play has been out of balance for quite some time, but it's not that bad anymore, still not good, that's true!

Yes, some of his positioning have been bad too, lol.

Still, after John Terry is on the bench and Baba not ready yet, maybe soon, but at present i can understand why Jose plays Ivanovic.

I think that the team is really missing leadership, yes, the Serbian dude got fucked a lot, but he has personality which you can't buy and although he is making mistakes,

he is respected and the necessary authority on the field.

The way you speak you have seen a lot more than me, so i give you credit where credit is due.

They havent played first team no, but dont you think that at time likes this is worth a punt?

Also one more full back to look out for is Jay DaSilva he is a leftback and people like Ian Wright (if that means anything) has said he is better than Ashley cole was at 16-17. And IMO the kid is going to be great. Stupid amounts of pace, and for a tiny kid he can put in some great powerful tackles

[Viper22 2,418]

Our next 11 league games:

Southampton (H)

Aston Villa (H)

West Ham (A)

Liverpool (H)

Stoke (A)

Norwich (H)

Spurs (A)

Bournemouth (H)

Leicester (A)

Sunderland (H)

Watford (H)

Lots of home games in there that should be fairly straight forward, some winnable away games and really tbh the only tough game there will be away against Spurs.

Imagine if (like we should as the champions) we come out of that run with 27-30 points or so, that will immediately rocket us up the table and suddenly all will look rosy. I genuinely have faith that we'll drop a maximum of 5 points over the next 11 games which will put us very high up and make everything look much better.

Hopefully either Ivanovic gets injured or Mourinho comes out from under the gypsy curse Ivan's mother put him under to never see him as the problem because that seems like the only way he'll be dropped and we'll be far more solid at the back without him!

[xPetrCechx 13,546]

Our next 11 league games:

Southampton (H)

Aston Villa (H)

West Ham (A)

Liverpool (H)

Stoke (A)

Norwich (H)

Spurs (A)

Bournemouth (H)

Leicester (A)

Sunderland (H)

Watford (H)

Lots of home games in there that should be fairly straight forward, some winnable away games and really tbh the only tough game there will be away against Spurs.

Imagine if (like we should as the champions) we come out of that run with 27-30 points or so, that will immediately rocket us up the table and suddenly all will look rosy. I genuinely have faith that we'll drop a maximum of 5 points over the next 11 games which will put us very high up and make everything look much better.

Hopefully either Ivanovic gets injured or Mourinho comes out from under the gypsy curse Ivan's mother put him under to never see him as the problem because that seems like the only way he'll be dropped and we'll be far more solid at the back without him!

All the away fixtures are not easy...

[The Mak 4,459]

I was going to put this in the Schurrle thread, but it seems more appropriate to put another Mourinho victim in here...

Jose Mourinho didn't trust me at Chelsea...it all felt a bit weird to me, says Wolfsburg midfielder Andre Schurrle.

But he trusts Cuadrado enough to spend a shit-ton of money on a 26 year old with one good season to his name? What the fuck? I would love to know what goes through Mourinho's mind when he ships on the likes of Andre, Juan, Kevin and Ryan. Players we could do with now.

I had a feeling Andre wasn't a Mourinho singing anyway, too attacking for his liking. Hazard is the only player allowed to attack apparently and even he gets criticised for not tracking back, while Ivanovic goes on suicide missions...the hypocrisy is astounding. I wish we could get proper answers for shit like this.

I'm starting to think Mourinho's famous 'man-management' skills are nothing but a fabrication started by the chosen few...

[Jase 43,479]

Our next 11 league games:

Southampton (H)

Aston Villa (H)

West Ham (A)

Liverpool (H)

Stoke (A)

Norwich (H)

Spurs (A)

Bournemouth (H)

Leicester (A)

Sunderland (H)

Watford (H)

At the moment, I'm only confident we'll win 4 of those games.

I was going to put this in the Schurrle thread, but it seems more appropriate to put another Mourinho victim in here...

Jose Mourinho didn't trust me at Chelsea...it all felt a bit weird to me, says Wolfsburg midfielder Andre Schurrle.

But he trusts Cuadrado enough to spend a shit-ton of money on a 26 year old with one good season to his name? What the fuck? I would love to know what goes through Mourinho's mind when he ships on the likes of Andre, Juan, Kevin and Ryan. Players we could do with now.

I had a feeling Andre wasn't a Mourinho singing anyway, too attacking for his liking. Hazard is the only player allowed to attack apparently and even he gets criticised for not tracking back, while Ivanovic goes on suicide missions...the hypocrisy is astounding. I wish we could get proper answers for shit like this.

I'm starting to think Mourinho's famous 'man-management' skills are nothing but a fabrication started by the chosen few...

Cuadrado was clearly a panic buy really.

[coolhead23 1,146]

1) I define youth quality as someone who is able to make an impact at Chelsea. We send kids out elsewhere - but they don't even get games for the likes of Bournemouth (I'm using the Atsu example here). That suggests that, if they can't play for Bournemouth (with all due respect), they don't have much chance of making it at Chelsea. A player is ready to be part of the first-team when they prove they are. We can all criticise Mourinho for his lack of faith in youth products, but the fact he's given playing time to RLC and Kenedy is encouraging. Even then, I don't think either of them are "ready" as they are just kids, and will only become "ready" with experience. However, they have made an impact already by imposing themselves on the manager's plans - so I would classify those players as youth quality.

2) No, I don't think the players at Arsenal like Bellerin, or Joe Gomez at Liverpool, or Wilson or Blackett at United, are any better than our current crop of kids. At teams like Arsenal and Liverpool where mediocrity is an expectation, you can give more game time to youngsters. At Chelsea, it is a lot harder, because we're expected to win games - and you have to admit we're far more likely to win matches with Diego Costa up front rather than Solanke or Bamford. Jose's track record of bringing youngsters through is not as poor as some people make it out to be, but it is poor in comparison to Wenger and Rodgers, but both of them seem comfortable with finishing in fourth or fifth. Jose just can't take the risk here. Everybody praised Ancelotti for supposedly bringing youth players through the ranks, but the only players he gave consistent chances to were Bruma (who after getting annihilated by Heskey in the 3-3 draw with Villa) and McEachran (who we all vastly overrated on the basis of a half-decent first touch and the ability to play one/two-touch passes). Otherwise we went with the tried and trusted old-timers like Cole, Ballack, Belletti. Yes, you can argue Jose could trust in the youth a little more - but can he afford to? With results being this bad already I don't think he's going to have too many opportunities to do so. You can turn around and say that a kid would player better than any of the first team did in the first half against Newcastle, but this is a quality squad that is unfortunately suffering from a crisis of confidence. You don't become bad players overnight, but to start the likes of Traore or Kenedy over Hazard or Oscar would be ridiculous, because despite having poor matches, it only takes one moment of genius (i.e. the Ramires screamer for the 2-1) to get us back into the game.

3) Trust has to be gained. The players need to seize their opportunities, it's as simple as that. Regardless of how few and far between they are, if you want to play for the top clubs you've got to take those chances. How many 18 year olds do Real Madrid play? One or two, yes - when they're 4-0 up and can afford to bring off one of their multiple superstars. We don't have that luxury. I think we have an outstandingly good youth academy and there are one or two diamonds like Charlie Colkett who could go on to become special, special players. But they won't get too many chances at a club that has to win every game, hence why they go out on loan - and if they can't do it in League 1, for instance, then we know it's unlikely they'll be able to do it in a Champions League semi-final in the Camp Nou.

I wouldn’t completely disagree to what you have mentioned … It makes sense when you mention about what Jose is doing in terms of RLC and Kenndy, about we are more results centric, experience will always take precedence over raw youth, about Real Madrid and on gaining trust.

But I have a slightly different take on this.

1. Loan system: Brilliant idea to have the young players out on loan in the hope that they get game time for development. But honestly is it helping our kids in terms of deployment … I don’t think so. because we are more focused on getting the player out which can help us in terms of revenue. Van Ginkel to Stoke was the first one that I read of having a clause where if the player get more game time, Stoke will pay less to Chelsea (I’m not sure if this is true or if this is actually the first one) Whereas we send out someone like a Bamford to Palace who already had 3-4 strikers in front of Bamford. This mean he wouldn’t get a game often which will slow down the momentum. Then there is Vitesse, even if a player does well there we still consider them as not ready. I hope we learn how to use the loan system to our kids benefit. We need more of the Van Ginkel scenario for our loanees.

2. As a club I feel we have definitely evolved … investment into youth was one such thing. In the past yes we didn’t have players to go and replace the experience lot so we reverted to the old guns as you rightly pointed. But after the Pep’s fiasco, I believe we are trying to show a level of patience with our managers … Jose still in charge is an example. So I feel there is a pressure on Jose also to start using the youth to get them drafted into the first team rather than just being result centric. (This transfer window can be taken as an example where the club wanted our manager to look into our talent pool). This is the reason why we have RLC been used more often as compared to last season. (Else how can you explain RLC not going out on loan while every one else is been sent out). I feel now the club is ready to take a chance with the youth and provide that support to the manager if we are moving in the right direction. A good manager will always blend the experience with the youth so that there is an on-transition without disturbing the balance of the team. And at the end of the day, experience will always have an upper hand over the youth.

3. Talking about the other clubs: Stating Arsenal were a mediocre team, wouldn’t completely agree … Wenger actually built up a good team after like 3-4 yrs post invinisible season but the team had a manager who had no idea kinda of mediocre one. Again United last season put their trust into their young players, they weren’t exactly mediocre side. I believe at the end of the day it is the trust that you put into the young players will make them shine or fail. Talking about Real Madrid is a not a good example of nursing youth rather look at Barca in the recent past … they had a vision for their young guns and they haven’t disappointed them much.

I’m not stating lets have 11 youth players in the first team (can we do that J, wouldn’t mind) but there has to a process in place where we can access our own resource pool which I don’t think is in place. We have good potential youth players and we have a good team with certain gaps but we need someone who can bind the 2. Is Jose the man for the same, I m not really sure … I do hope he does. Talking about our current position, if we are hell bend on playing certain players over and over again then better to give the future a chance … how much more worse can it happen.

In the end of the long essay, I hope we do a balancing act of getting the youth integrated into the first team because at the end of the day they are 18/19 yrs old kid and they need a guiding light. If we have to give away a potentially good player on loan for a couple of games in the entire season it would be better if we make him stay at the club and offer the same.

[lionsden 4,689]

There's no way he should stay in charge if he fails to qualify for the champions league at the end of the seaosn. that's the bare minimum requirement for every manager of top teams in europe. And at this rate, it will take a complete turn around in performance and result for that objective to be met.

[zolayes 14,489]

Our next 11 league games:

Southampton (H)

Aston Villa (H)

West Ham (A)

Liverpool (H)

Stoke (A)

Norwich (H)

Spurs (A)

Bournemouth (H)

Leicester (A)

Sunderland (H)

Watford (H)

Lots of home games in there that should be fairly straight forward, some winnable away games and really tbh the only tough game there will be away against Spurs.

Imagine if (like we should as the champions) we come out of that run with 27-30 points or so, that will immediately rocket us up the table and suddenly all will look rosy. I genuinely have faith that we'll drop a maximum of 5 points over the next 11 games which will put us very high up and make everything look much better.

Hopefully either Ivanovic gets injured or Mourinho comes out from under the gypsy curse Ivan's mother put him under to never see him as the problem because that seems like the only way he'll be dropped and we'll be far more solid at the back without him!

IF we manage more than 20 points I will be delighted .. Not over confident of even 20 tho