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Lack of English players in the squad


bababoom
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And what price do you place on these players who are supposedly better than we have?

I don't know. You tell me since you already have a predetermined opinion that English talent are inferior to their foreign counterpart.

one thing I do know for sure is Sterling is the best teenager in world football currently and most non biased neutrals share that pov. a pov thats based on merit rather than hype nontheless. Sturridge and walcott are amongst the most productive attackers in Europe (Nos don't lie) and an injury free and in form Wilshire is one of the finest midfielders in this league.

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I don't know. You tell me since you already have a predetermined opinion that English talent are inferior to their foreign counterpart.

one thing I do know for sure is Sterling is the best teenager in world football currently and most non biased neutrals share that pov. a pov thats based on merit rather than hype nontheless. Sturridge and walcott are amongst the most productive attackers in Europe (Nos don't lie) and an injury free and in form Wilshire is one of the finest midfielders in this league.

LOL, best teenager in the world. Same people that said lukaku was the best young CF in the world.

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Liverpool are the phoenix suns of the football world.

Their best defense is a gunho offense with their stat padding. It's funny daniel scores a tap in for england and sterling scored 0 goals. Maybe because england's setup is more conservative and Liverpool play in a gunho offense.

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What a weird discussion. Barbara, I haven't read any of your posts so I'm not addressing you.

Firstly, I think this whole discussion actually belongs in a different thread and not the board one. In terms of the board's handling of English talent, well they bought Gary Cahill in 2012 and that was about as good a bit of business that could be done in that regard in the last three years.

I'll state from the outset that I want us to have an English core. We're an English club (very specifically a London club) and it's important to the supporters that we have English players. That won't change.

But amongst the mewling for English players I see very few actual names of players that we should be buying and that's because there aren't many suitable ones. By suitable I mean a) good enough for this squad and b ) available at c) a decent price.

Who exactly should we be targetting? Specifically which players?

Shaw? £30 million when we just bought Luis and promoted Nathan Ake (young, talented and homegrown) to the squad. A guy who would earn more than Cahill, Oscar, Azpi, Ivanovic, Courtois, Matic and Schurrle? Not realistic.

Stones? Possibly but the prices quoted are twice what we paid for Zouma, three times what we paid for Cahill (who he's probably closest too in terms of style) and more than what we paid for Kalas, Omeruo, Christensen, Zouma and Ake combined.

The way forward for this club to produce young English talent seems obvious to me - produce it in-house.....and that's what we're doing. There is no new Lampard on the horizon for England, but maybe Loftus-Cheek or Baker or Boga can become our own. Ashley Cole is the greatest left-back this country has produced, but maybe we can get close with DaSilva. Then there's the Chalobahs, Solankes, Ainas and even Colketts who might come through.

English talent needs to be exceptional to succeed here and exceptional English talent is thin on the ground. Until we have the framework to insert these players into the squad and the first-team then it's hard to get the production line going but we're getting closer than we have done for years and for that the board (to bring it back on-topic) deserves credit.

If you had read them you would have known I don't think we should overspend or pursue those expensive English players now, but that we should keep in mind at all times - as a club - that we should keep a core. If we can't buy those now because they're overpriced, we need to start producing them. Also I disagree about your last paragraph and I wrote a whole post on that. We don't need to have the very best player in the world in each position. Teams are about balance. I gave examples about Bayern and Barcelona of a few years having players that could be easily replaced, but they managed to dominate the world football with Mascherano, Busquets (when he wasn't on his peak yet), Gomez, Mandzukic, average FBs (except Lahm). Bayern could even have used a better CB two years ago. As long as we have some key players, we can manage decent players. Cahill isn't even close one of the best CBs in the world in my opinion and still he did a brilliant job here last season. Decent players can make a job if the team is balanced.

So I'm advocating we - as a club - keep it in mind and make it one of our priorities. If we're going to sign another Cahill - for a fair price - or produce another JT, I don't care, but we shouldn't just ignore this problem and offer some lame excuse such as English players not being among the best in the world. I think some are underrated because everyone just looks to how awful the NT is and label everyone as shit or ordinary. Wilshere, Sterling, Daniel are players I could see playing here. I don't see how much worse Sterling is to Schurrle or Willian, or Wilshere to Oscar and Ramires, or how Daniel wouldn't have won us the title last season (I do think Costa is better, doesn't mean Daniel wouldn't be enough).

If I'm supporting an English team is because I like English football, I want to see English players there. I don't know how that can be weird? I feel the same about RM or Inter... I started watching leagues not teams, then I fell in love with Italian football, then Spanish football, then English. I've watched plenty of German football years ago, trying to see if I liked it - I don't. I really don't see any appeal in Bundesliga. I enjoy Dutch football more. So I want to look to my English team and see English players there because I think it's what makes that team English. Do they need to be 6-7-8? Not necessarily. Do they need to start every match, no, they don't, but if those teams don't give me a resemblance of being English, Italian or Spanish, then there's something wrong because I started watching those leagues and liked them because of their identity.

But somehow those values are being less and less important. What really matters is money, titles, prestige. The most important thing is how big our trophy room is - as if our history is only that - and then all of sudden we're Liverpool fans. And it doesn't matter anymore if the people going to the stadium suddenly don't feel like supporting their home team, but a bunch of internationals that win them titles. A lot of people will still love going there, but many others won't and they will look to the team and see no resemblance of what they fell in love with or feel how it represents them. But the silverware will be there to comfort them, so they should be content. I think the local support is what sustains a club and the moment they don't care anymore and can't identify themselves with the club or recognize their club in the current squad, we have a problem. I have a problem with that an ocean away, but even if I didn't, the club can live without me, but it can't live without the local support and for many that's still important. More important than titles because we could still win titles with English players here. We did it, United did it, Liverpool did it (UCL). All we need is balance.

But as I said, all it takes for some to forget about that is a bright, new shiny trophy in a room...

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Van Ginkel is not a better player than Chalobah.

Yet.. he will get 'preferential' treatment because of the fee involved (ROI), because of how the FFP system works, there is no risk in the academy, if you spend £8m on Van Ginkel.. you need to see him being given some sort of chance, whether that's being involved in the side or high profile loans. Mourinho works closely with Emenalo and the board, there is a element of politics.

I'm curious, in what areas do you think Chalobah is better than MVG?

On any account, in the current formation we are playing, they play different positions. Chalobah would be Matic's backup while Marco would be Oscar's/Ramires'.

Marco isn't hurting Chalobah's chances. Having bad loans to Forrest and (to a lesser extent) Boro is what hurt Chalobah's chances.

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I'm curious, in what areas do you think Chalobah is better than MVG?

On any account, in the current formation we are playing, they play different positions. Chalobah would be Matic's backup while Marco would be Oscar's/Ramires'.

Marco isn't hurting Chalobah's chances. Having bad loans to Forrest and (to a lesser extent) Boro is what hurt Chalobah's chances.

Pointless to argue about them, wait until the end of this season and we can see who is better. Chalobah either will make a name for himself in BPL or MVK becomes one of the best CDM in Milan. If they aren't there is no point arguing because they will both be likely to be shipped off for good then if that is not the case. We will go for someone like Khedira or Pogba. IN truth neither of them will likely make it here so don't know why people are debating who is better.

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Could be Chelsea material....would cost £30 million or so.

Is he going to be better than Boga? Would you bet £30 million on it? He could be another Jose Baxter, but the fact is that Everton gave him a chance after a dodgy loan to Wednesday (I believe) whereas we had Chalobah on-loan at Watford in the same year, who performed exceptionally and didn't get a look-in.

There needs to be a commitment to youth and that comes through consistency

We all know the answer and people still managed to moan about it.

We had no stability!

We had Sturridge and years ago the board wanted to get Shaw on the cheap. This a lone shows that the board has actually been thinking about this.

But when you had many managers and at the time we had Ryan who we didn't know what he could become it makes it hard.

It is why managerial stability will help in this a lot.

I never expected Mourinho to put any youth in his first season. He was trying to fit the pieces.

Now that hes more comfortable we can start seeing a little bit of them. But realistically the bigger impact will be felt from next season onward if Mourinho stays with us for some time.

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We all know the answer and people still managed to moan about it.

We had no stability!

We had Sturridge and years ago the board wanted to get Shaw on the cheap. This a lone shows that the board has actually been thinking about this.

But when you had many managers and at the time we had Ryan who we didn't know what he could become it makes it hard.

It is why managerial stability will help in this a lot.

I never expected Mourinho to put any youth in his first season. He was trying to fit the pieces.

Now that hes more comfortable we can start seeing a little bit of them. But realistically the bigger impact will be felt from next season onward if Mourinho stays with us for some time.

I dont think we wanted Shaw on the cheap but what Man U offered was FUCKING INSANE , Do you

think he is worth what they paid ????

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I dont think we wanted Shaw on the cheap but what Man U offered was FUCKING INSANE , Do you

think he is worth what they paid ????

No I meant years ago.

Chelsea was thinking of buying him and loaning him back to the Saints.

Think that was around the year we won the CL.

This is why someone with vision like Mourinho will give his further input into such things.

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No I meant years ago.

Chelsea was thinking of buying him and loaning him back to the Saints.

Think that was around the year we won the CL.

This is why someone with vision like Mourinho will give his further input into such things.

that might have worked.. I still think of Cork Mancienne and Bertrand and wish we could have developed

them

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There is really a lack of English talents - and it is because clubs here don't give their youths to reach their maximum potential abilities.

JM, RB and etc.

PVA is not English, but he is an example how the youth system in England is never gonna work unless you do something amazing, OR the media hyped you up to be successful like Shaw.

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There is really a lack of English talents - and it is because clubs here don't give their youths to reach their maximum potential abilities.

JM, RB and etc.

PVA is not English, but he is an example how the youth system in England is never gonna work unless you do something amazing, OR the media hyped you up to be successful like Shaw.

It's several issues. It's the academies themselves that are mostly not on the same level as those in Spain or Germany or even France and Netherlands. Not talking about the facilities, but more the coaching methods. Then you have the whole youth system that doesn't suite teams in the EPL and never prepares the players for the jump into such a league. Then you have the extremely competitive nature of the league and the billions going into it. Even if you're fighting to prevent relegation, you can barely afford to play youngsters because the team's around you will have excellent players.

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Only two English players I want/wanted in the squad were Shaw & Barkley.

Shaw as he had a good season, young but he wasn't worth the amount he went for, no chance.

Barkley I'd still take but I doubt he'd get much game time.

For people saying Sterling, I don't think so. I couldn't picture him succeeding in the Chelsea system, as another poster pointed out, he's just a "gung-ho" type midfielder, offers nothing in defence.

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LOL, best teenager in the world. Same people that said lukaku was the best young CF in the world.

What is LOL about that. Alright come on now. I am going to call you out on this. Based on performances which teenager would you currently say is better than Sterling right now? You said LOL like it is a ludicrous statement when it is not.

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There hasn't been an English talent worth buying for first team purposes they say. The amount of bullshit that get spewed on here is ridiculous sometimes. Sterling and Barkley are attacking mid I had take over oscar every day of the week, Sturridge is clearly better than our striker options bar Costa, If you gave me Walcott, I had personally drive Willian to the airport myself, Wilshere obviously over Ramires and mikel, Stones and Calum chambers I had takle over Zouma and Shaw would more than hold his own against any left back. But carry on with the old and tired "Englsih talents are overrated" narrative

Completely disagree.

Yes, some of those players would be good for our first team (Sterling) and squad (Barkley, Walcott over Willian, Wilshere over Mikel and potentially Stones over Zouma).. but let's be realistic for a second. How attainable do you really believe Sterling to be? Same goes with Walcott and Wilshere; our rivals will not sell their young English players to us for anything other than a small fortune and, really, none of them over Sterling would actually improve us. We would be paying a huge premium purely because of their nationality: that is no way to run this club. Unless you are suggesting we should have acquired them before they 'established' themselves? Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I agree completely with the notion that we need to have an English core, but spunking vast sums on players that aren't as good as cheaper foreign options that we already have settled in our squad is not the answer. It would totally undermine the good work we have done over the last couple of years. What we need to be doing is developing our own English talent and/or buying promising players that fit us in deals that don't amount to extortion i.e. Luke Shaw's recent deal, what Sterling/Wilshere/Barkley/Walcott would cost. It is simply unrealistic to look at the few good English players that are around and point at them and say 'well we should buy them, they are better than X foreign player in our squad'. They play for our rivals. They are unobtainable for the large part, and if, on the off chance, an English player comes along that fits the bill we will most certainly be in for them.

Personally, I am excited about the futures of some of our academy prospects - despite the numerous let downs over the years - and I think with the stability and continuity Mourinho will hopefully bring we will have in place a platform from which our promising young players (some of whom are bound to be English) can thrive. Things are going pretty damn well for us right now and I can only see it getting better and this is an area that we need to improve on and it is pretty clear, from recent Mourinho interviews, that some degree of youth integration is on the agenda.

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I don't know. You tell me since you already have a predetermined opinion that English talent are inferior to their foreign counterpart.

one thing I do know for sure is Sterling is the best teenager in world football currently and most non biased neutrals share that pov. a pov thats based on merit rather than hype nontheless. Sturridge and walcott are amongst the most productive attackers in Europe (Nos don't lie) and an injury free and in form Wilshire is one of the finest midfielders in this league.

Damn, Sterling is the best teenager in the world? Well let me see if I can come up with an equation to figure out what his value must be... hmmm. Luke Shaw, the best LB u-20 is being paid 100k and was sold for 30m. One would have to think Sterling, the best young attacker in the world must be at least twice that value, fuck it, if James Rodriguez is 86m then the best 19 yr old in the world is at least close to that when you also take into account the English tax!!! Surely!!

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its not developing players, its about finding good talent. I can't think of any Englishman that'll fit our starting 11. Maybe there need to be reform on how kids are thought how to play.

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What is LOL about that. Alright come on now. I am going to call you out on this. Based on performances which teenager would you currently say is better than Sterling right now? You said LOL like it is a ludicrous statement when it is not.

Stats wise, probably none, since liverpool play in a gunho system with little depth and competition in the am department. But than again, Lukaku would be the best young CF as well, since hes pretty much the only young CF that starts...

Talent wise, sterling doesnt tip the cup.....

AND more...

Football exists outside of England.. So called happens that EPL seems to have the best young lb, best young u20am, best young CF or probably just wishful thinking.

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Stats wise, probably none, since liverpool play in a gunho system with little depth and competition in the am department. But than again, Lukaku would be the best young CF as well, since hes pretty much the only young CF that starts...

Talent wise, sterling doesnt tip the cup.....

They are all exciting youngsters. Matsmour has real potential from what I hear but right now we can not even compare him to Sterling when he is still a rookie with little first team experience if any. The others are all exciting but the only established ones in their first team from the ones you have picked are Kovacic and Meyer and right now they are not even close to Sterling's level of ability. Sterling has an adbundance of talent, it is quite scary.

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