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The "completed" Chelsea side and attractive football.


Shakez
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I can't deny that I would like us to play a more attractive football. With the players we currently have, it'd be a shame if Jose can't accomplish that while keeping the team defensively sound. That said, results matter the most, of course.

The issue I have is that defensive football actually isn't any more successful than offensive football. The bottom line is that you have to score more goals than the other team and that can be 5-4 or 1-0. In fact, last year, goals for was a better indicator of success than goals against. The top 7 in goals for finished 1,2,3,4. 7, 5,6 (in other words all the top 7) The top 7 in goals against finished 3, 1, 5,4, 7,8, 11. I don't expect us to be exciting offensively because Mourinho is not that kind of coach. I don't like it, but it's the way we went and we have to keep on that path if we want to win. Trying to force a certain offensive style on a team it doesn't fit is a disaster..

BTW, for 95% of teams, you just need to do what you can do win. I will never begrudge a lower level team of playing super defensively against us. What can you do when your entire roster costs less than any two players on the other team's squad? However, when you are spending 60M pounds a year, you should be able to produce some attractive football.

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The issue I have is that defensive football actually isn't any more successful than offensive football. The bottom line is that you have to score more goals than the other team and that can be 5-4 or 1-0. In fact, last year, goals for was a better indicator of success than goals against. The top 7 in goals for finished 1,2,3,4. 7, 5,6 (in other words all the top 7) The top 7 in goals against finished 3, 1, 5,4, 7,8, 11. I don't expect us to be exciting offensively because Mourinho is not that kind of coach. I don't like it, but it's the way we went and we have to keep on that path if we want to win. Trying to force a certain offensive style on a team it doesn't fit is a disaster..

BTW, for 95% of teams, you just need to do what you can do win. I will never begrudge a lower level team of playing super defensively against us. What can you do when your entire roster costs less than any two players on the other team's squad? However, when you are spending 60M pounds a year, you should be able to produce some attractive football.

Idd, and the majority of our games are against those lower sides. It feels sore to lose against those sides while playing boring football.

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The issue I have is that defensive football actually isn't any more successful than offensive football. The bottom line is that you have to score more goals than the other team and that can be 5-4 or 1-0. In fact, last year, goals for was a better indicator of success than goals against. The top 7 in goals for finished 1,2,3,4. 7, 5,6 (in other words all the top 7) The top 7 in goals against finished 3, 1, 5,4, 7,8, 11. I don't expect us to be exciting offensively because Mourinho is not that kind of coach. I don't like it, but it's the way we went and we have to keep on that path if we want to win. Trying to force a certain offensive style on a team it doesn't fit is a disaster..

BTW, for 95% of teams, you just need to do what you can do win. I will never begrudge a lower level team of playing super defensively against us. What can you do when your entire roster costs less than any two players on the other team's squad? However, when you are spending 60M pounds a year, you should be able to produce some attractive football.

Well said.

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We play winning football. At the end of the day, people will only remember the end result, not how pretty we play.

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Mourinho does hold the record for most goals in laliga. 121 with Madrid in 38games is almost impossible to be beaten. If we play anywhere as good as that 2011/2012 Madrid side, we're in for a cracker.

The key is that we needed better finishers because we will concede when attacking like that. That's where costa and fabregas come in, good finishers and hopefully alongside schurlle in attack, we won't find goals difficult to come by.

We also need a marcelo to help our Ronaldo(hazard) in attack, that's where Luis comes in. A highly technical left back that can actually dribble his marker and put in dangerous crosses.

I'm sure that's why Mourinho feels like keeping cech and Courtois bcos he knows they will be left isolated hence the keeper with the best reflexes on form is critical.

Mourinho has a history of fantastic second seasons (Porto, Chelsea, inter, Madrid) he understands what are the missing links in the first season and fixes them in the second.

Can't wait for the new season!!

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First of all, I don't even agree we are what it's been said we are, how am I going to assess if I think the premise is fake?

There were matches where we were a joy to watch. The team couldn't keep it up enough and the second part of the season was a disaster with players already thinking about the WC or what they ate the day before, because they seemed completely uninterested in some matches (and I'm not talking only about Brazilians). But when the machine was working, it was a very nice style to watch. We played good football at many point throughout the season, we just weren't good enough to keep doing it.

It wasn't as silky and flair-ish as others and while that influences to a certain extent people labeling us anti-football or boring, the main source of those ideas is because we don't score much. But it has nothing to do with Mourinho's tactics and preferences when you look who were our striker force in the first place. That's what people will say. With Diego Costa here if we play exactly the same football, but somehow score let's say 90-whatever goals, the argument is going to disappear. Opposition and neutral fans won't talk as much about our 'anti-football'. We only really practiced for a while, especially during the UCL under di Matteo. Everything else is jealousy, distortion of facts and too much time in hands.

And this whole idea is even more ridiculous when you realize not every season has a team scoring 100+ - regardless of the league. If that was the case our record of most goals at the league would have been broken or at least tied every season and it's intact until now. In other leagues - just like in the EPL - teams go over 100 once in a while. Yeah, 70-whatever is poor for a top team. It has little to do with Mourinho's tactics and a lot more with 1) bad strikers 2) our best player not shooting enough 3) our other AMs - especially Oscar who started scoring for fun and has very good finishing - went hiding the second half of the season. So the problem was actually more in the players shying away than in the approach. Against teams whose attack was better than us we played more defensively. I think mistakes were made against Atletico, but it wasn't simply because we were defensive. They were tactical bets that didn't pay off. Most of them did throughout the season.

This whole discussion imo is moot and bleh because I don't agree with the basic premise.

Now if we move it to 'can we play more effective football' I'll have a lot to say (as if three paragraphs weren't a lot already). While many said we don't play beautiful, but play effective, I disagree. We weren't properly drilled at offensive actions, we could and should have done better. Our attack should be more organized, our midfield more creative and direct. We had a lot of problems - most of them technical as in many matches the players didn't show up and in many others it was a chance-created-waste-festival. Mourinho failed in create alternatives (plays practiced in training, actually have drills on how to attack) because it seems like everyone was doing whatever they saw fit at some points, it wasn't organized, purposeful and conscious many times. During pre-season, Mourinho and Kevin spoke about us scoring goals in plays we trained, but it seemed to have been lost during the season. André ran, positioned himself, nobody saw him or passed to him. Eto'o also presented himself for the 2-1, but the AM or whoever received the ball and moved forward, our FB didn't support our attack properly (Azpili and Iva were in the final third, but bad positioned, without a clear purpose of attacking, many times seemed to only add numbers and be there for sideway passes), we were taking nonsense shots (especially with Luiz and Ramires) that showed we didn't know what else to do with the ball.

Players should be aware of where André was and pass him the ball. Players should know when Eto'o got his back to the goal at the edge of the box and passed it backwards, that he was going to receive a couple of seconds later, inside the box, face to the goal. Azpili and Iva should be more than players to pass the ball to the side and get it back, trying to find a way to get passed the block (or bus). It's not only about crosses, but smart linkup and 2-1s. I have no problem with risking long distance shots, but sometimes they showed we didn't know what we were doing. All those things should be worked in training imo but they don't show you're defensive, they just show you should do a better job because if all those players were in the positions they found themselves in the first place (all examples I gave they are in the final third and I'm talking about strikers, AMS, pivot players and FB, a team with all those people up there isn't defensive). I wasn't in the training sessions, obviously, so I'm assuming they weren't properly worked because I didn't see purpose in many of our actions in the final third. Maybe they were worked and we couldn't execute, either way, the problem has always been execution (in training and in play) more than philosophy. And I now I spoke enough :P

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If we keep on winning home and away against the top 3/4 other teams like we nearly did last season, I really couldn't give a shit. Attractive football is great, but when those teams that played it came up against us they looked like headless chickens and we often murdered them on the counter (City, Arsenal). I found a lot of joy in that to be honest.

We also managed to get to the semi-finals of the CL and this was accomplished with the squad we had at the time. With our new signings this year I would expect us to perform a lot better against the smaller teams by sheer virtue; especially if Mourinho implements high pressing again against these types of teams.

To be able to effectively press high against weaker opposition and counter ruthlessly against the more dangerous teams, well, that would be good enough for me to be honest.

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Barbara :lol:

The practiced moves were poor last season. At times it felt like they haven't played with each other before. No understanding, no teamplays, no 1-2 combination plays, no vision. Maybe rotating the strikers so much didn't allow for more understanding between the ams and the strike.

But now we have someone that makes runs constantly, keeping the centerbacks on the run and thinking. Now we have someone who is looking to pick out runs in behind the defence so gameplay will definitely improve now. Hopefully schurlle gets more gametime now so him and costa make runs and add finishing to our team.

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If by attractive you mean we can win against bottom half teams in relative comfort then yes, wouldn't we all? But the big big games I hope we can continue to rustle jimmies by tactically out-doing everyone like last year.

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My main problem with Jose is when Chelsea is up 1-0 or 2-1 he wants to go in complete defense mode for some reason, even against small clubs! Then like times last season they would pressure us and score near the 90th minute and we would draw or lose. IMO, the best form of defense is attack (to a certain level) and Jose really does not agree with that. Hopefully he learned his lesson from last season that we cannot just 'defend' for the rest of the game when one lucky fluke could take away 2/3 points from us.

If he will keep doing that this season, he will be packing bags in summer.

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The thing is defending must come first when building a team, yes a fair part of last season wasn't great on the eye but with it we built a solid foundation to kick on from now.

The perception of good football is teams like Brendans liverpool, but really is good football watching defenders make mistake after mistake? I squirmed seeing there goals conceded last year, it's bad enough seeing basic defensive cock ups in league 2, never mind a title chasing team of one of the top leagues in Europe, would players like Mingolet, Agger and Johnson with a league medal be 'good for football' given they were at fault for so many goals? I think it would have been a travesty.

The same way I hate big scoring games littered with defensive error's, if the attack outsmart the defence fair enough but games like United 8 2 Arsenal was cringeworthy, school boy defending from both sides and the game could have been 10 6. I have been involved in free for all 6 all draws and tight tactical 1 0s were we had to be smart to win, and I got much more enjoyment in the latter games, that's were im in my element playing football, the whole idea of the game is how hard it is to score, hench the mad celebrations when we do, there's a reason celebrations in Rugby are more withdrawn unless its a winner.

There has to be some sort of balance it pissed me off last season when people said Liverpool were doing things the right way, they were defending like school boys but got away with it due to a world class and very good striker both in the form of their lives, defending is part of football to

What I want to see from Jose is to keep the solid defensive base because as he shown in his first coming, do that and the attack and good football looks after itself, imagine the pressure off attacking shoulders if they know one goal will do eight times out of ten?

We will benefit from building a solid base next season, while Liverpool will still have a rubbish error prone defence with the reason they got away with it as much as they did at Barcelona.

oh well, as long as Coutinho and Sterling play a neat one two in the 50th minute, hey.........................................................

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No excuses this season.

The puzzle is completed.

Attractive football will happen with Fabregas Hazard costa luis oscar willian schurrle and the rest.

Drogba is back as well for those moments where shit isnt working.

We shouldnt be winning ugly by choice, that is the only thing that bothers me. There is a fine line between the stupidity of going gung ho and attacking at Mancity, and then scoring a goal vs bottom 10 side, and then playing slower.

What i expect is to score a goal at city and be slightly cautious from then on, but score a goal at a bottom table team , and then score 4 more. 4 more.

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We're playing so glum football against a 13th placed german team. We can only dream of playing good attractive football under Jose. It will never happen.

I HOPE you are wrong But I FEAR you are right

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We're playing so glum football against a 13th placed german team. We can only dream of playing good attractive football under Jose. It will never happen.

Im fearing that also. Atleast we can't stick it on the players this year...

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So what we lost? Its pre-season and Mourinho's side is always better in the second season. Always is.

He gave our team a balanced system last season, with clear instructions for the wide players to help the fullback and also off the ball work in a high block as well as a low block unlike what we seen from anyone before Rafa who vaguely set us up with 2 lines of 4, Mata free as well as Torres/Ba up top as a target man.

We conceded the least amount of goals in the PL. Sure if you want to outscore teams you can do that like Liverpool but personally I'd prefer us to keep clean sheets as well and you can't outscore teams forever. Look at Liverpool's balance last season, you could score goals against them for fun because they committed both fullbacks high up the park as well as having two central midfield players who could go forward as well as either two wingers and a CF or two CFs and a 10. Also Jose knew we were missing players last year, like Costa and Fabregas but also he was trying to improve the defensive side of our team and find his best team.

Anyway I think we will be a bit more useful with possession and in transitions with Costa and Fabregas in our team but that doesn't mean we are gonna see us playing 4-3-3 like Barcelona or Spain or Bayern or whoever else, with a very high line, both full backs very high and very little protection in midfield if we lose the ball. Not a chance but thats not a bad thing, Chelsea will always be very hard to beat under Jose and we all know that, he is in my eyes the best coach in Europe and tactically he usually gets it spot on. Even when we are chasing games he goes either 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 but its always got its defensive instructions as well as offensive ones (ok maybe not the 3-5-2 because that was usually Willian and Hazard as wingbacks but still).

Attractive football is really a term that annoys me sometimes, football is full of variety, there is not one way to play football and there never will be. People think if you play very very openly and have lots of passes and ball possession you are playing attractive but I watched a lot of Jose's Madrid team the season they broke the record for goals and Klopp's Dortmund side and the way they played intrigued me, maybe you won't consider that 'attractive' football but it was efficient and effective football. Also Jose's first spell here we were something different, 3 man midfield, very direct, very hard to beat, very physical and nobody could better us.

I just want us to go back to being a ruthless team that is very quick out of the blocks and will beat whoever the fuck is put out in front of us. We used to be like that, we've lost that 'ruthlessness' over the years that teams like Manchester United and now even Manchester City have got.

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So what we lost? Its pre-season and Mourinho's side is always better in the second season. Always is.

He gave our team a balanced system last season, with clear instructions for the wide players to help the fullback and also off the ball work in a high block as well as a low block unlike what we seen from anyone before Rafa who vaguely set us up with 2 lines of 4, Mata free as well as Torres/Ba up top as a target man.

We conceded the least amount of goals in the PL. Sure if you want to outscore teams you can do that like Liverpool but personally I'd prefer us to keep clean sheets as well and you can't outscore teams forever. Look at Liverpool's balance last season, you could score goals against them for fun because they committed both fullbacks high up the park as well as having two central midfield players who could go forward as well as either two wingers and a CF or two CFs and a 10. Also Jose knew we were missing players last year, like Costa and Fabregas but also he was trying to improve the defensive side of our team and find his best team.

Anyway I think we will be a bit more useful with possession and in transitions with Costa and Fabregas in our team but that doesn't mean we are gonna see us playing 4-3-3 like Barcelona or Spain or Bayern or whoever else, with a very high line, both full backs very high and very little protection in midfield if we lose the ball. Not a chance but thats not a bad thing, Chelsea will always be very hard to beat under Jose and we all know that, he is in my eyes the best coach in Europe and tactically he usually gets it spot on. Even when we are chasing games he goes either 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 but its always got its defensive instructions as well as offensive ones (ok maybe not the 3-5-2 because that was usually Willian and Hazard as wingbacks but still).

Attractive football is really a term that annoys me sometimes, football is full of variety, there is not one way to play football and there never will be. People think if you play very very openly and have lots of passes and ball possession you are playing attractive but I watched a lot of Jose's Madrid team the season they broke the record for goals and Klopp's Dortmund side and the way they played intrigued me, maybe you won't consider that 'attractive' football but it was efficient and effective football. Also Jose's first spell here we were something different, 3 man midfield, very direct, very hard to beat, very physical and nobody could better us.

I just want us to go back to being a ruthless team that is very quick out of the blocks and will beat whoever the fuck is put out in front of us. We used to be like that, we've lost that 'ruthlessness' over the years that teams like Manchester United and now even Manchester City have got.

Nah it's not about we've lost or we've won.

I'm talking about playing attractive football. We were playing so glum football against a team who have finished a merely 13th in the german league.

I could've accepted it if we were playing Dortmound, Bayer Leverkusen but against Bremen it was not acceptable..

If we play this way... yes we can win against team that attack us.. but we will struggle to beat those teams that will defend deep like what happened last season especially at Stamford Bridge...

And anyhow if team scores first against us we're even in more danger because their players won't even cross their half.

While on other hand teams like City, Liverpool just killed those oppositions in their home like 5-0 4-0 etc and yet we settled to a 0-0 at bridge. That's what the problem of negative football.

And yeah one more thing during Jose's first spell low table teams didn't used to park the bus like they do now. Now these teams just go and play with one objective just defend deep and don't concede and be happy with one point..

P.SThis is just my thoughts.. I have no hate towards Jose or anything. But we've got the squad to play some good attacking football(Well atleast against small teams). So why don't we do that? Our team can also kill these small teams just like City and Liverpool but they're not getting utilised.

Jose tactic of defend deep and hit on counters is very good I like it but it won't work against small teams..

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