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The Thread is Dark and Full of Spoilers: "Game of Thrones" discussion


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52 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Whenever a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin.

Season 1, Episode 6, you knew after that she was going to snap at the end of the day.

 

 

There was foreshadowing of this yes but what i'm saying is that the "leap" was too big. In the beginning of season 8 she was still trying to save people.

She was still very much a good person (with yes a bit of an edge at times and overly tendency to want people to bend the knee) up until season 8 ep 5.  Then ep 5 hits and she goes full psycho killing women, children and essentally becoming the biggest villain in this story.

If they went this route i wish they would have more gradually shown her slipping into that crazy targaryen persona. Now it just feels incredibly rushed (as the entire season 8 feels to me).

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1 hour ago, Belgiannutt said:

There was foreshadowing of this yes but what i'm saying is that the "leap" was too big. In the beginning of season 8 she was still trying to save people.

She was still very much a good person (with yes a bit of an edge at times and overly tendency to want people to bend the knee) up until season 8 ep 5.  Then ep 5 hits and she goes full psycho killing women, children and essentally becoming the biggest villain in this story.

If they went this route i wish they would have more gradually shown her slipping into that crazy targaryen persona. Now it just feels incredibly rushed (as the entire season 8 feels to me).

This. It just feel like she suddenly turned bad. I think everyone is complaining how the show has become a bit senseless. 7 years character development mean absolutely nothing. It is pretty much a boring Hollywood show, no more interesting story. 

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4 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

There was foreshadowing of this yes but what i'm saying is that the "leap" was too big. In the beginning of season 8 she was still trying to save people.

She was still very much a good person (with yes a bit of an edge at times and overly tendency to want people to bend the knee) up until season 8 ep 5.  Then ep 5 hits and she goes full psycho killing women, children and essentally becoming the biggest villain in this story.

If they went this route i wish they would have more gradually shown her slipping into that crazy targaryen persona. Now it just feels incredibly rushed (as the entire season 8 feels to me).

In a way, it makes much sense and it definately has that GRRM vibe to it. Violent, ironic and twisting turn.

She was always a Targaryen and it was always 50% she will crack. She was simply too perfect to this point to be true. She gained massive armies, people, had dragons in south. It got into her head to a point she is destined to be on the throne, at any cost. Thats the beggining of mad.

She lost her "true love" and most loyal person when Jorah died, she lost a dragon, she lost her biggest friend in Missandei, she lost Jon because he is related to her and she was on brink of betrayal by her advisors. Not to mention, she lost big chunk of her army. And when they won, she wasnt as appreciated as Jon in the north and that was for the first time. It all happened in short time. It was obvious she will crack and having a dragon, that was recipe for a disaster.

In a way Im dissapointed they "ruined" a character after developing it greatly for 7 years. But story wise, that was expected and it was done perfectly. There is no happy ending in medieval world. GRRM writing is definition of that saying if something can go wrong, it will. Ned beheading, Red wedding, Vipers death, etc etc. Everyone meets the end. And Daenerys was too perfect to last long. Either she would die or become bad. Im pretty sure if Jon was elected king, they would soon take him out with betrayal or some revenge type shit. Thats Game of thrones for you.

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2 hours ago, communicate said:

This. It just feel like she suddenly turned bad. I think everyone is complaining how the show has become a bit senseless. 7 years character development mean absolutely nothing. It is pretty much a boring Hollywood show, no more interesting story. 

She was always like that IMO. People bent the knee, or they were killed off. Just remember Samwell family. 

The difference was she had bunch of very loyal advisors and friends that kept her on the ground. Once she lost them, her true Targaryen was unleashed. 

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She'd be a dumb queen. Why pointlessly destroy more than necessary the city you'll be ruling in? Rebuilding job will be massive and that stupid cunt probably killed most workers who can restore stuff. Not to mention endangering her own people while randomly burning shit. Jon should have just properly fucked Dany when he had the chance, now she acts like a woman who hasn't got any in a long time, but she also happens to have a dragon... whoops! Jon is to blame in the end.

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3 hours ago, manpe said:

She'd be a dumb queen. Why pointlessly destroy more than necessary the city you'll be ruling in? Rebuilding job will be massive and that stupid cunt probably killed most workers who can restore stuff. Not to mention endangering her own people while randomly burning shit. Jon should have just properly fucked Dany when he had the chance, now she acts like a woman who hasn't got any in a long time, but she also happens to have a dragon... whoops! Jon is to blame in the end.

For Daenerys, it makes sense. Sad character development, but it makes sense. Im more dissapointed with Jaimie character arc. He went from murdering cocky Lannister to full redemption, only to go back to Cersei willing to murder entire kingdom to be with her, just like in the beggining. And that "love" would be somehow believable if she didnt send Barristan to kill him and Tyrion with crossbow. But he completely ignored that it seems.

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14 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

She was always like that IMO. People bent the knee, or they were killed off. Just remember Samwell family. 

The difference was she had bunch of very loyal advisors and friends that kept her on the ground. Once she lost them, her true Targaryen was unleashed. 

I understand killing people who disobey her. I can see her doing the same thing in similar scenario with king landings but not just suddenly turning into a Killing spree monster. 

I understand what is going on. The show runner is trying to end the series. I don't know because of the budget, because of no story left. But it feel like now it is all about who should die in the next episode, what kind of spectacle we should show next. There is no more story. It is like going from point a straight to b. There is no story in between. 

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2 hours ago, communicate said:

I understand killing people who disobey her. I can see her doing the same thing in similar scenario with king landings but not just suddenly turning into a Killing spree monster. 

I understand what is going on. The show runner is trying to end the series. I don't know because of the budget, because of no story left. But it feel like now it is all about who should die in the next episode, what kind of spectacle we should show next. There is no more story. It is like going from point a straight to b. There is no story in between. 

Even GRRM doesnt know all the details because he didnt write it yet.

So the producers got only couple of key points that will happen in the end, but not exactly how and why. Thats why the final season only has 6 parts because they didnt want to make up stuff that might not be even close to what happens in the books eventualy.

Yeah, I agree there should be at least 4 episodes serving the character development besides the 6 we got. But Dany would turn mad either way.

People hate on show because Dany went mad, because they ruined their favourite character. 

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Are people hating on the fact that Dany turned evil or the way she did? Because everyone is pissed with her being evil now. Im not happy how it was presented (not enough development due to the lack of content to work with), but the fact she turned evil is typical Game of Thrones moment. Its what this show was built on. This isnt disney fairytale. We had moments of true shock in almost every season. And you get to expect that eventualy, but the writers managed to outdo it every season again even better. By now we shouldnt be surprised if Sansa or Arya or Dany suddenly died/turned bad because we have seen stuff like that every season and we loved it. But the show keeps viewers in shock twist by the end of every season.

If you are Danys fan, you will hate this season. If you are GoT fan, you will like it.

I dont like how it was executed, but story in season 8 is exactly why we all love the show. Dany the one true good queen turns evil, destroying hopes of all viewers who wanted her on the throne for years. Its Georgr Martins medieval world people. 

As it was said in Batman; either you die as a hero or you live long enough to become a villain.

Big props to GRRM to pull one last (unexpected) twist here. 

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10 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Are people hating on the fact that Dany turned evil or the way she did? Because everyone is pissed with her being evil now. Im not happy how it was presented (not enough development due to the lack of content to work with), but the fact she turned evil is typical Game of Thrones moment. Its what this show was built on. This isnt disney fairytale. We had moments of true shock in almost every season. And you get to expect that eventualy, but the writers managed to outdo it every season again even better. By now we shouldnt be surprised if Sansa or Arya or Dany suddenly died/turned bad because we have seen stuff like that every season and we loved it. But the show keeps viewers in shock twist by the end of every season.

If you are Danys fan, you will hate this season. If you are GoT fan, you will like it.

I dont like how it was executed, but story in season 8 is exactly why we all love the show. Dany the one true good queen turns evil, destroying hopes of all viewers who wanted her on the throne for years. Its Georgr Martins medieval world people. 

As it was said in Batman; either you die as a hero or you live long enough to become a villain.

Big props to GRRM to pull one last (unexpected) twist here. 

Don't know about others, but I am just pissed with the lack of story and motive on here. Dany turning "mad" did not surprise me one bit. They had tried to show dany going over to the dark side through out the season. Her treatment of varys should have been an indication of what was about to happen. But again, the character is behaving in a way it's made to behave rather than it's supposed to behave (if I am able to explain myself). Things are happening with such convenience. Arya can survive anything because she has plot armour, somehow within all the fire and chaos she now gets a horse. Tyrion suddenly has turned into one of the dumbest characters on the show. It's all just so stupid 

Even the way the whole dragon sequence was shown. I mean you know the danger, so why would only one of your ships have the scorpion bolts. They should have shown each of the ships having those bolts, coupled with a sneak attack by drogon and dany at night. Here drogon is seen burning through castle walls, while "that stone" which has providing shelter to jon in 2nd episode is still intact. 

If I wanted to watch cgi wars, I would rather watch endgame again and again or John wick this week, but that's not why we watch GoT. Everything right now is being done to "kill people off", just don't see the point.  will it be a surprise to anyone that jon kills dany? It's just predictable , rushed and stupid at the moment for me

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23 minutes ago, 1905didierblue said:

Don't know about others, but I am just pissed with the lack of story and motive on here. Dany turning "mad" did not surprise me one bit. They had tried to show dany going over to the dark side through out the season. Her treatment of varys should have been an indication of what was about to happen. But again, the character is behaving in a way it's made to behave rather than it's supposed to behave (if I am able to explain myself). Things are happening with such convenience. Arya can survive anything because she has plot armour, somehow within all the fire and chaos she now gets a horse. Tyrion suddenly has turned into one of the dumbest characters on the show. It's all just so stupid 

Even the way the whole dragon sequence was shown. I mean you know the danger, so why would only one of your ships have the scorpion bolts. They should have shown each of the ships having those bolts, coupled with a sneak attack by drogon and dany at night. Here drogon is seen burning through castle walls, while "that stone" which has providing shelter to jon in 2nd episode is still intact. 

If I wanted to watch cgi wars, I would rather watch endgame again and again or John wick this week, but that's not why we watch GoT. Everything right now is being done to "kill people off", just don't see the point.  will it be a surprise to anyone that jon kills dany? It's just predictable , rushed and stupid at the moment for me

We should be pissed on what we didnt get, not what we got. It feels as there should be episode between all these 6 episodes to explain and develop character but producers dont have enough material to work on since GRRM didnt write books yet. And they cant just make stuff up that wont be anything close to the books (once they are written).

Daenerys always looked on brink to make some bad shit, but was prevented by her advisors. Now she lost almost everything. Its sort of believable. 

Tyrion is no stupider than before, he just isnt convinced with Dany and on the other hand he is. It all backfired. 

Jaimie was indeed completely ruined. Went from redeemed version back to his old cuntish "would kill everyone for Cersei" in 3 seconds. And all that after he realised she sent a mercenary to kill him with crossbow. This one makes zero sense, much like how cheap "Johnny Deep" met him in that spot by the beach and they fought each other. 

Aside for the lack of additional episodes, I only blame the producers for Jaimie ending, rest was understandable, althrough it needed more explaining.

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8 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Even GRRM doesnt know all the details because he didnt write it yet.

So the producers got only couple of key points that will happen in the end, but not exactly how and why. Thats why the final season only has 6 parts because they didnt want to make up stuff that might not be even close to what happens in the books eventualy.

Yeah, I agree there should be at least 4 episodes serving the character development besides the 6 we got. But Dany would turn mad either way.

People hate on show because Dany went mad, because they ruined their favourite character. 

I agree that most fans like Danny so they will hate this season.

For fans like me who is more interested on the plot, season 8 has been dissapointing. I have waited 8 years for white walker to break through the wall. And it took the north one night to basically stop them. No interesting story line, just dark and snowy war. 

I know that Danny has violent side, but instead of just killing the innocent. They should have made the people of kings landing to show ampathy about Targaryen, how they don't want to be ruled by Targaryen anymore. Something like that and her advisor tried to stop her because it means killing thousands of people. And then make her turn into a paranoid where she think that everyone is against her and she turn into a mad queen. 

 

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Well, it's true that this season it feels like they are focusing more on special effects than coherency of the story. It felt rushed already last season and this is just continuing the trend. Sure there are cool scenes with nice effects, but it shouldn't be so prominent compared to making sense in the story. I still like the show, but expected so much more from the ending considering all the complicated and intriguing stuff that had happened in previous years. I hope they somewhat redeem themselves with the grande finale.

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9 hours ago, 1905didierblue said:

Don't know about others, but I am just pissed with the lack of story and motive on here. Dany turning "mad" did not surprise me one bit. They had tried to show dany going over to the dark side through out the season. Her treatment of varys should have been an indication of what was about to happen. But again, the character is behaving in a way it's made to behave rather than it's supposed to behave (if I am able to explain myself). Things are happening with such convenience. Arya can survive anything because she has plot armour, somehow within all the fire and chaos she now gets a horse. Tyrion suddenly has turned into one of the dumbest characters on the show. It's all just so stupid 

Even the way the whole dragon sequence was shown. I mean you know the danger, so why would only one of your ships have the scorpion bolts. They should have shown each of the ships having those bolts, coupled with a sneak attack by drogon and dany at night. Here drogon is seen burning through castle walls, while "that stone" which has providing shelter to jon in 2nd episode is still intact. 

If I wanted to watch cgi wars, I would rather watch endgame again and again or John wick this week, but that's not why we watch GoT. Everything right now is being done to "kill people off", just don't see the point.  will it be a surprise to anyone that jon kills dany? It's just predictable , rushed and stupid at the moment for me

 

The whole point of Daenerys vertically attacking the ships was to isolate them so only one was in range to shoot at a time from the angle. Every ship had scorpions and bolts but they can not shoot vertically. Drogon  is way  faster thean the other Dragons. Drogon is also faster than the bolts as the previous episodes showed. With Dany on it she can make him dodge the bolts easily.

With the Winterfell battle at night and no one could see shit, I understand they did the last battle at daylight.

Dragon fire is portrayed to be powerful enough to melt stone in the books consistently but yeah not in the series

Also the John Wick series was made especially to NOT feature much CGI. It is produced as an old-fashioned action movie but with modern day choreography, extras, high-speed cameras etc. that is what gives it such unique visuals

 

apart from that you are right. Danys character turn was way too rushed. One should have at least one scene were she was needlessly killing civilians to make her burning all of Kings Landing believable. Also even if her moment of snapping was kinda believable in the way that all the deaths were for nothing if they just surrendered that easily, her incredible relentlessness in burning the City was OTT.

You are also right about Tyrion. He has made like 5,6 huge blunders in a row. If I were Dany I had long lost faith in him. Especially with the ease she took Kings Landing, she could have done it straight away when she came there. and still had friends and allies, would have made fighting the Night king much easier as well. Tyrion really can not blame her for turning on him after he badly advised her all the time.

Arya surviving is indeed plot armor at its best. The white horse (symbol for death throughout the series, also looked pretty much like Harry Stricklands horse) will carry her to Dany but no way she will be able to the shows 2 most powerful characters. Dany will kill her and Jon then prolly kill Dany, go back to the nights watch and Sansa becomes queen

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7 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

You are also right about Tyrion. He has made like 5,6 huge blunders in a row. If I were Dany I had long lost faith in him. Especially with the ease she took Kings Landing, she could have done it straight away when she came there. and still had friends and allies, would have made fighting the Night king much easier as well. Tyrion really can not blame her for turning on him after he badly advised her all the time.

 

I think the TV show make it too easy. At this point just forget logic, just enjoy the sight of dragon burning city, war and death people. 

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36 minutes ago, communicate said:

I think the TV show make it too easy. At this point just forget logic, just enjoy the sight of dragon burning city, war and death people. 

Yup they do.

points out some of the bullshit writing like Eurons beaming, aim, and shipbuild superpowers , and the interview were benioff honeslty wanted to sell us that Dany forgot about the iron fleet . Since the show deviated from the books the writing has been atrocious

 

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Btw since you can't really tell whether bran is a good guy or a bad guy or he is being controlled by some alien.  I don't know why you want him to be king.

The writer need to be fired. If they knew since the beginning that bran is going to be the king, they should develop his story more and gave him more personality. It just feel like 7 seasons go down the drain. 

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Loved this show but the ending was mehhh to me. Still one of those shows that will go down as truly one of the most memorable in the history of TV series, definitely one that at some point in the future I will gladly rewatch with my children. 

But for me nothing beats 'The Wire'. So far.

GoT, The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, First season of True Detective, Band of brothers all memorable shows and special mention to Sherlock and Peaky Blinders and probably some others that I might forget in this moment. (Not counting the comedy stuff like Two and a half men, Friends, South Park etc etc) 

All remarcable TV series but for me 'The Wire' is in a league of its own. All the shows that I have mentioned, I waited for something to really blow my mind and surpass 'The Wire', but none has done so. Maybe I set the bar too high, but I know at some point there is going to be something better. 

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Hated the ending. So disappointed with the last half of the last season, loved the rest of the 8 years. Epic series that really needed Martin to finish those last 2 books before they finished it though. Once they ran out of the original book material it went a wee bit wonky.

Oh, well, I cannot wait for the prequel series next year!

The Age of Heroes 10,000 years before the current series is supposedly the setting.

Bran the Builder, et al.

Might be two other spin-offs as well,

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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