Oscar

[didierforever 7,349]

Hello Robguima,

Got to say I'm with didierforever on this. My view is that Oscar is not good enough for a club with our ambitions full stop, but he was especially horrible in the first half. During that period it seemed to me that virtually nothing he tried to do came off. I don't think however that today has much relevance to the debate about Oscar's future. Everybody has bad days. Today was Oscar's turn for a really bad one, that's all.

The real discussion about Oscar reminds me of the Mikel conversations that used to go on. People argued back and forth about Mikel's worth and there were accusations that his doubters didn't notice all of his ugly but vital contributions. Those conversations more or less stopped when Matic returned and showed up Mikel's limitations for what they are. For me it is urgent that we upgrade Oscar. When we get a genuinely good 'ten' that fit's Jose's system, I think it will be even more clear that Oscar has not been contributing enough when he is in possession.

I also don't see that he is bound to improve. In fact I'd say that he is bound not to improve but time will tell so no sense arguing it either way I guess.

Lastly there are stats in this thread highlighting Oscar's defensive contribution but let's not forget that a significant portion of the defending we needed to do today flowed from Oscar's appalling play. Granted he was better in the second half but his overall grade would still be very, very low in my opinion. To be the player we need Oscar's grade should be consistently very high. It isn't.

Imo, we already have an option for the no.10 role - Cesc. He puts in a shift defensively, definitely bettee at controlling the pace of the game and providing incisive balls for goals. Oscar/willian can be rotated and shifted to the wing in case we buy a good Cm like pogba/vidal/martinez

[quickpassnmove 924]

We will see how much momentum this Chelsea squad can create for itself in the coming ~10 weeks.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

Oscar is doing okay this season, if not, we will never give him a contract extension.

[didierforever 7,349]

Oscar is doing okay this season, if not, we will never give him a contract extension.

our first contract extension for the year went to romeu. How is an extension an indication of how good a player is performing? He is young, has a name in the footballing world and should be tied to a long contract. That's what we did.

[robsblubot 3,205]

Hello Robguima,

Got to say I'm with didierforever on this. My view is that Oscar is not good enough for a club with our ambitions full stop, but he was especially horrible in the first half. During that period it seemed to me that virtually nothing he tried to do came off. I don't think however that today has much relevance to the debate about Oscar's future. Everybody has bad days. Today was Oscar's turn for a really bad one, that's all.

The real discussion about Oscar reminds me of the Mikel conversations that used to go on. People argued back and forth about Mikel's worth and there were accusations that his doubters didn't notice all of his ugly but vital contributions. Those conversations more or less stopped when Matic returned and showed up Mikel's limitations for what they are. For me it is urgent that we upgrade Oscar. When we get a genuinely good 'ten' that fit's Jose's system, I think it will be even more clear that Oscar has not been contributing enough when he is in possession.

I also don't see that he is bound to improve. In fact I'd say that he is bound not to improve but time will tell so no sense arguing it either way I guess.

Lastly there are stats in this thread highlighting Oscar's defensive contribution but let's not forget that a significant portion of the defending we needed to do today flowed from Oscar's appalling play. Granted he was better in the second half but his overall grade would still be very, very low in my opinion. To be the player we need Oscar's grade should be consistently very high. It isn't.

I think you are both missing something quite obvious: mikel and cahill are playing at their best while Oscar isn't.

Mikel is 27 and cahill is 29. Oscar is 23!

u just don't buy the top players because the top clubs won't let them go. So u buy and develop the unfinish product... Oscar may or may not become the real deal, but chelsea and jose believe he has the potential. So does brazil management. There are no guarantees obviously.

Here is a crazy idea: you both may actually have no clue about whether he will improve at all or by how much.

I don't either, but I am not the one claiming to. Though my wild guess is that he's bound to improve some, whether enough that's not certain.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

our first contract extension for the year went to romeu. How is an extension an indication of how good a player is performing? He is young, has a name in the footballing world and should be tied to a long contract. That's what we did.

fair enough, but my point is he is doing fine until he signed it back then. Yes, after that he is 'struggling' with illness and stuff and didn't have involved in some matches, but that is not necessary to judge his season already at the moment. There is 5 months to go, anything still could happen.

[Special Juan 27,093]

Glad to see this thread has returned to normal after last nights issues with korea. He has now been banned and removed altogether and this goes for anyone who thinks it's clever and funny to make racist remarks about anyone or anything on this forum. It won't be tolerated in any sense from any of the staff, enjoy the forum and be civil.

Thanks.

[lionsden 4,689]

Lol.

Has one bad game, worst #10 in the business.

One bad game? Where have you been for the past 24 months? The number of bad games He's had over his Chelsea career comfortbaly dwarfs his good ones.

Some posters have now finally realised he's not good enough as a first choice AM and far too inconsistent while others have simply ran out of patience for him.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,773]

Lol.

Has one bad game, worst #10 in the business.

As has been said, Oscar has had many, many games which are below the required standard. It would not be correct for anyone to say that he is the worst ten in the business but I don't believe anyone is saying that. The opinion I and others are expressing is that he is not good enough for the level Chelsea hope to achieve. Finding a ten who is good enough will improve us in the same way we were improved by the upgrade from Mikel to Matic.

[lucio 5,371]

As has been said, Oscar has had many, many games which are below the required standard. It would not be correct for anyone to say that he is the worst ten in the business but I don't believe anyone is saying that. The opinion I and others are expressing is that he is not good enough for the level Chelsea hope to achieve. Finding a ten who is good enough will improve us in the same way we were improved by the upgrade from Mikel to Matic.

just ditch schurrle and salah. bring in respectable 10 and winger. to makes these positions competitive

[BlueLion. 21,491]

You can play "well" and statistically have nothing to show for that performance.

Conversely, you can have a below-par game and end up with a well-taken goal and a genius assist.

I'm quite happy seeing more of the latter.

For his entire Chelsea career, Oscar's contribution has been for the team and rarely ever individual. By that, I mean he isn't an archetypal number ten. He is the least glamorous of our attacking players based on the role he does for the team, which is not to score or assist goals; his role is to be a combative little terrier in the middle of the park who effectively acts as a screen in front of our two pivot midfielders. He pops up with the odd goal and assist because he often plays a lot deeper than the number 10s mentioned above. The way he interchanges with Hazard, Willian and Fabregas is excellent and his versatility makes him a very useful player for us. José could "let him off the leash" and allow him to play his natural game, but for our present 4-2-3-1 system to work it requires more of a box-to-box player in the number ten role; something Mata simply couldn't fulfil. I think Oscar is a terrific player whose contribution to the team shouldn't be measured by assists and goals. If we were to let him have free rein, he'd pop up with 15 goals a season and 15 assists. But if we did that, defensively we'd be horrific.

I'd agree, he might occupy the number ten position on the starting line-up whenever Sky do their thing pre-match, but the reality is he does have a free role behind the striker - but unusually it is more of a defensive role than an attacking one. Whichever way you choose to define it, he's a top midfielder and shouldn't be judged on the goals and assists he provides because ultimately Oscar's contribution to the team is the lung-bursting run he makes to get back and make a tackle after having supported attack after attack. His engine is incredible, but because we were spoiled by having some incredible attacking midfielders, not least Lampard, Ballack, Essien et al., anyone who plays as an advanced midfielder for Chelsea has to score 15+ goals a season, just like Frank did.

The fact is he is now starting to show more individual impact upon the game in terms of goals and assists is positive, IMO. He shouldn't be judged on that output but nonetheless he is an attacking midfielder and will be expected to offer goals and assists.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

7 assists so far this season. 3rd most in the League along with a respectable 4 goals but yeah definitely not good enough. I hate all of you.

Name one young AM in our League that's had a better season? Barkley? He's been complete shit. Eriksen? Definitely hasn't been as good. Coutinho? Utter shit. I could go on and on.

Some of the things people say about him is pathetic. He's had a fine season despite being forced into way more defensive work than the average AM. Do you know how ridiculously skilled that flick for Costa's goal was yesterday?

[didierforever 7,349]

One bad game? Where have you been for the past 24 months? The number of bad games He's had over his Chelsea career comfortbaly dwarfs his good ones.

Some posters have now finally realised he's not good enough as a first choice AM and far too inconsistent while others have simply ran out of patience for him.

a little harsh to say that the bad ones dwarf his good performances, but totally agree with the gist of it, his consistency in APPALLING.

i think he actually got a massive life line yesterday. that first half performance minus the goal, would definitely have seen him subbed at HT. no chance that he would have started swansea then or city or even liverpool away league cup for that matter. would have been all downhill for him. lets just hope he makes good on his chance and helps the team in the process.

[Mission 97]

Mikel is 27 and cahill is 29. Oscar is 23!

This.

Oscar has a significant amount of time on his side. At 23 at this level, he has mammoths of potential.

The industrious nature of his play has been taken for granted by many, a lot do not seem to understand he's not a traditional #10. He excels in creating space, spreading play, receiving and passing the ball in tight spaces. There are moments where he makes some intelligent runs, and his vision in general is showing some auspicious progression. There's crystal clear evidence of creativity there, and anyone with half a brain would figure that there's a promising playmaker in development. This is all omitting the fact that he has a defensive capacity for the Premier League. His tenacious attitude that shows he is willing to work hard for Mourinho is admirable; he implements a creditable amount of unselfish shifts into his play. He has a firm understanding of how this team works and is capable of switching places with Fabregas to support or to create opportunity for the team. In fact, his movement off the ball and synergy with most of the outfield players that the team have, is praiseworthy as a whole. How some are suggesting, that buying a new attacking midfielder who would then miraculously slot into this role and significantly improve the team, is short sighted to say the least.

Could Oscar have performed better yesterday? Obviously. The entire team could have, though. There were aspects of his play which seem to have been ignored. In the first half, he spent a lot of time around the left flanks in order to shut down players such as Sissoko and Cabella, who were indisputably Newcastle's biggest threats.

Give this guy time; it's almost guaranteed that he will eventually start to ooze world class quality.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

They're all spoil idiots. Again, name a better young AM in the League having a better season than Oscar. He isn't just padding his stats either in blowout victories either. So many of his contributions have been consistently crucial. Take a look at our previous games in the League this season and take note of the sheer number of opening goals he's either scored or assisted.

Sure his all round game isn't as polished as Hazard's but Eden is a generational talent. Oscar will continue to improve with more experience and as he develops physically.

[Victor Von Doom 258]

7 assists so far this season. 3rd most in the League along with a respectable 4 goals but yeah definitely not good enough. I hate all of you.

Name one young AM in our League that's had a better season? Barkley? He's been complete shit. Eriksen? Definitely hasn't been as good. Coutinho? Utter shit. I could go on and on.

Some of the things people say about him is pathetic. He's had a fine season despite being forced into way more defensive work than the average AM. Do you know how ridiculously skilled that flick for Costa's goal was yesterday?

What are you fochn talking about lad? Coutinho is the fuchn best no. 10 in the world. How can you deny his quality when he fuchn plays for Liverpool?

Fuchn deluded lad. Ynwa

[Mission 97]

They're all spoil idiots. Again, name a better young AM in the League having a better season than Oscar. He isn't just padding his stats either in blowout victories either. So many of his contributions have been consistently crucial. Take a look at our previous games in the League this season and take note of the sheer number of opening goals he's either scored or assisted.

Sure his all round game isn't as polished as Hazard's but Eden is a generational talent. Oscar will continue to improve with more experience and as he develops physically.

Completely agree. The flair of Cesc and Eden that simple minded people see through rose tinted glasses often blurs out Oscar; in some cases, they envisage him as some sort of scapegoat.

As a whole, it's outrageous how the people who call themselves 'supporters' are doing quite the opposite.

[dee25 1,044]

Completely understand the criticisms people have about him. Oscar's weaknesses became apparent to me the moment he displaced Mata from the no. 10 position. Regardless though, this season he has something like 4 goals and 7 assists in 17 appearances. Yes his touch is inconsistent, his passing can be sloppy at times, his vision is limited, he plays with his head down too much for my liking and sometimes he could be very weak on the ball......but in spite of his weaknesses he has 4 goals and 7 assists in 17 games and this is a player that's still only 23 years old. How much can he really be holding the team back with stats like those? Not Chelsea material? 4 goals and 7 assists isn't Chelsea material? Would people then prefer a more aesthetically pleasing player over one with high productivity?

Oscar isn't the most talented attacking midfielder in the world, but he's still among the top talents in his generation. Yes we probably should look for better options in his position, but right now he most certainly isn't a weak link in the team. It actually makes zero sense to shell out 20M plus to bring in another no. 10 player. Why on earth would we do that? Cesc can play in that position if need be. What we need to be looking to upgrade is Ramires with a Pogba type player. That type of player will help us more than bringing in another attacking midfielder.