David Luiz

[Special Juan 27,093]

Not aimed at you mate

Short term memory at it's finest.

I'm merely trying to find out and raise debate on how they think Luiz has done.

[NiclasCFC 2,582]

Magical in Munich, so was Cahill.

[zolayes 14,489]

Seems David is now a scapegoat for anything that goes wrong ...Just my opinion but he is STILL CLASS and a future Chelsea captain .

[Blue Armour 4,158]

Not aimed at you mate but people are completely forgetting how good he was in the second half of last season...

Short term memory at it's finest. People are acting like Luiz has been playing like he has this season for his entire CFC career when that's not true whatsoever.

Not disagreeing with you, but I think we saw the best of Luiz as CENTRE-BACK those first couple of weeks right after we had signed him. He was spectacular, especially against City at home with his aggressive pressing and tackling, taking the ball out of defense to help with the build up play. Those performances made him into a sort of cult hero

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

He can hit a great long ball, the only little problem is he needs to waste 10 balls before that, which is quite frustrating actually.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Not disagreeing with you, but I think we saw the best of Luiz as CENTRE-BACK those first couple of weeks right after we had signed him. He was spectacular, especially against City at home with his aggressive pressing and tackling, taking the ball out of defense to help with the build up play. Those performances made him into a sort of cult hero

Remember this very well. What great performances those were. Shame many have forgotten that he's capable of this.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

Have we really seen what Luiz is capable of since we signed him?

When people talk like you do, you make it sound like he's capable of turning water into vine.

He's been more than good enough for us. We bought him for who and what he is.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

He adopted to us as soon as he put on a blue shirt, but didnt realy improved ever since.

Consistancy is main problem, but I dont see why Jose doesnt teach him how to be better defender and more consistent. He motivated Terry brilliantly, why cant he do the same with Luiz.

I hope he stays here for long time though.

[pachman40 357]

I ususally avoid this thread as it's depressing to read some of the things written about our very own sideshow bob. It seems a lot of people want him to be this robotic perfect defender who makes the "right" decisions and avoids those horrendous "rushes of blood". That is not who he is, that is not who Chelsea bought, and that is not what he should become. He's lost that spontaneity, that exuberance, that amazing ability to make things harder than they need to be but make something special out of nothing. He is not Gary Cahill, he is not John Terry, he is not a "British" CB. I know people will come back with a defender's first job is to defend, but that's too easy, that's a copout. David Luiz is at his best, at his most influential when he can be creative, dangerous, and unorthodox. I'm sorry, but when you watch videos of his first season here you saw jubilation in his eyes, you saw excitement, and you saw passion. It was infectious among the team. Players lifted their games, the pace of our attacks improved, the team was exciting.

Now, he's the scapegoat, everyone has their magnifying glass out and some Chelsea fans rub their hands and become gleeful when that inevitable "rush of blood" happens. Gone are the regular forays upfield to overload the midfield, the dribbles that had bus-parking teams scratching their heads, and the frequent moments of genious that were discussed regularly at the water-cooler the next day. David Luiz has become a shell of the player that arrived. He is obviously being told to be more mechanical, more "traditional", more "British" in his positioning and risk-avoidance. But that isn't good enough for the traditionalists. "A defender's first job is to defend". To hell with that! We're driving a world-class, special, talented player out of Chelsea and it really makes me sad. No player is above the team, and obviously Chelsea's best interests are my best interests. Unfortunately, as a David Luiz fan, a fan with Luiz's name on the back of my jersey, I almost wish he would leave so that we can maintain that fantastically boring first pairing of Cahill/Terry where everyone will be happy that we won't be subject to Luiz's "deficiencies". Make no mistake, if he leaves and joins Barca or Bayern, they will exploit the very characteristics that some Chelsea fans love to hate. Those very characteristics that will make him a top 3 DEFENDER in the world. And then we'll be here sucking our thumbs wondering aloud "Why do we let the good ones get away?". Sorry for the rant, just felt like getting that off my chest. I know there are Luiz fans here who feel the same way, but I get sick of reading the other stuff.

[robsblubot 3,205]

deleted

my post was garbage compared to the one above.

[Reddish-Blue 2,213]

I ususally avoid this thread as it's depressing to read some of the things written about our very own sideshow bob. It seems a lot of people want him to be this robotic perfect defender who makes the "right" decisions and avoids those horrendous "rushes of blood". That is not who he is, that is not who Chelsea bought, and that is not what he should become. He's lost that spontaneity, that exuberance, that amazing ability to make things harder than they need to be but make something special out of nothing. He is not Gary Cahill, he is not John Terry, he is not a "British" CB. I know people will come back with a defender's first job is to defend, but that's too easy, that's a copout. David Luiz is at his best, at his most influential when he can be creative, dangerous, and unorthodox. I'm sorry, but when you watch videos of his first season here you saw jubilation in his eyes, you saw excitement, and you saw passion. It was infectious among the team. Players lifted their games, the pace of our attacks improved, the team was exciting.

Now, he's the scapegoat, everyone has their magnifying glass out and some Chelsea fans rub their hands and become gleeful when that inevitable "rush of blood" happens. Gone are the regular forays upfield to overload the midfield, the dribbles that had bus-parking teams scratching their heads, and the frequent moments of genious that were discussed regularly at the water-cooler the next day. David Luiz has become a shell of the player that arrived. He is obviously being told to be more mechanical, more "traditional", more "British" in his positioning and risk-avoidance. But that isn't good enough for the traditionalists. "A defender's first job is to defend". To hell with that! We're driving a world-class, special, talented player out of Chelsea and it really makes me sad. No player is above the team, and obviously Chelsea's best interests are my best interests. Unfortunately, as a David Luiz fan, a fan with Luiz's name on the back of my jersey, I almost wish he would leave so that we can maintain that fantastically boring first pairing of Cahill/Terry where everyone will be happy that we won't be subject to Luiz's "deficiencies". Make no mistake, if he leaves and joins Barca or Bayern, they will exploit the very characteristics that some Chelsea fans love to hate. Those very characteristics that will make him a top 3 DEFENDER in the world. And then we'll be here sucking our thumbs wondering aloud "Why do we let the good ones get away?". Sorry for the rant, just felt like getting that off my chest. I know there are Luiz fans here who feel the same way, but I get sick of reading the other stuff.

Well said.

You should post more often

[Barbara 15,149]

I ususally avoid this thread as it's depressing to read some of the things written about our very own sideshow bob. It seems a lot of people want him to be this robotic perfect defender who makes the "right" decisions and avoids those horrendous "rushes of blood". That is not who he is, that is not who Chelsea bought, and that is not what he should become. He's lost that spontaneity, that exuberance, that amazing ability to make things harder than they need to be but make something special out of nothing. He is not Gary Cahill, he is not John Terry, he is not a "British" CB. I know people will come back with a defender's first job is to defend, but that's too easy, that's a copout. David Luiz is at his best, at his most influential when he can be creative, dangerous, and unorthodox. I'm sorry, but when you watch videos of his first season here you saw jubilation in his eyes, you saw excitement, and you saw passion. It was infectious among the team. Players lifted their games, the pace of our attacks improved, the team was exciting.

Now, he's the scapegoat, everyone has their magnifying glass out and some Chelsea fans rub their hands and become gleeful when that inevitable "rush of blood" happens. Gone are the regular forays upfield to overload the midfield, the dribbles that had bus-parking teams scratching their heads, and the frequent moments of genious that were discussed regularly at the water-cooler the next day. David Luiz has become a shell of the player that arrived. He is obviously being told to be more mechanical, more "traditional", more "British" in his positioning and risk-avoidance. But that isn't good enough for the traditionalists. "A defender's first job is to defend". To hell with that! We're driving a world-class, special, talented player out of Chelsea and it really makes me sad. No player is above the team, and obviously Chelsea's best interests are my best interests. Unfortunately, as a David Luiz fan, a fan with Luiz's name on the back of my jersey, I almost wish he would leave so that we can maintain that fantastically boring first pairing of Cahill/Terry where everyone will be happy that we won't be subject to Luiz's "deficiencies". Make no mistake, if he leaves and joins Barca or Bayern, they will exploit the very characteristics that some Chelsea fans love to hate. Those very characteristics that will make him a top 3 DEFENDER in the world. And then we'll be here sucking our thumbs wondering aloud "Why do we let the good ones get away?". Sorry for the rant, just felt like getting that off my chest. I know there are Luiz fans here who feel the same way, but I get sick of reading the other stuff.

[YouNameIt 1,511]

I ususally avoid this thread as it's depressing to read some of the things written about our very own sideshow bob. It seems a lot of people want him to be this robotic perfect defender who makes the "right" decisions and avoids those horrendous "rushes of blood". That is not who he is, that is not who Chelsea bought, and that is not what he should become. He's lost that spontaneity, that exuberance, that amazing ability to make things harder than they need to be but make something special out of nothing. He is not Gary Cahill, he is not John Terry, he is not a "British" CB. I know people will come back with a defender's first job is to defend, but that's too easy, that's a copout. David Luiz is at his best, at his most influential when he can be creative, dangerous, and unorthodox. I'm sorry, but when you watch videos of his first season here you saw jubilation in his eyes, you saw excitement, and you saw passion. It was infectious among the team. Players lifted their games, the pace of our attacks improved, the team was exciting.

Now, he's the scapegoat, everyone has their magnifying glass out and some Chelsea fans rub their hands and become gleeful when that inevitable "rush of blood" happens. Gone are the regular forays upfield to overload the midfield, the dribbles that had bus-parking teams scratching their heads, and the frequent moments of genious that were discussed regularly at the water-cooler the next day. David Luiz has become a shell of the player that arrived. He is obviously being told to be more mechanical, more "traditional", more "British" in his positioning and risk-avoidance. But that isn't good enough for the traditionalists. "A defender's first job is to defend". To hell with that! We're driving a world-class, special, talented player out of Chelsea and it really makes me sad. No player is above the team, and obviously Chelsea's best interests are my best interests. Unfortunately, as a David Luiz fan, a fan with Luiz's name on the back of my jersey, I almost wish he would leave so that we can maintain that fantastically boring first pairing of Cahill/Terry where everyone will be happy that we won't be subject to Luiz's "deficiencies". Make no mistake, if he leaves and joins Barca or Bayern, they will exploit the very characteristics that some Chelsea fans love to hate. Those very characteristics that will make him a top 3 DEFENDER in the world. And then we'll be here sucking our thumbs wondering aloud "Why do we let the good ones get away?". Sorry for the rant, just felt like getting that off my chest. I know there are Luiz fans here who feel the same way, but I get sick of reading the other stuff.

Dont avoid this thread anymore..

[pachman40 357]

Thanks guys... my post count is really low relative to the amount of time I spend lurking here. Every once in a while I'll get in the mood and throw a few posts out there, but for the most part I'm more of a behind the scenes kind of guy. I like reading, but I'll try to be less lazy and interact more.

[The Skipper 20,593]

I ususally avoid this thread as it's depressing to read some of the things written about our very own sideshow bob. It seems a lot of people want him to be this robotic perfect defender who makes the "right" decisions and avoids those horrendous "rushes of blood". That is not who he is, that is not who Chelsea bought, and that is not what he should become. He's lost that spontaneity, that exuberance, that amazing ability to make things harder than they need to be but make something special out of nothing. He is not Gary Cahill, he is not John Terry, he is not a "British" CB. I know people will come back with a defender's first job is to defend, but that's too easy, that's a copout. David Luiz is at his best, at his most influential when he can be creative, dangerous, and unorthodox. I'm sorry, but when you watch videos of his first season here you saw jubilation in his eyes, you saw excitement, and you saw passion. It was infectious among the team. Players lifted their games, the pace of our attacks improved, the team was exciting.

Now, he's the scapegoat, everyone has their magnifying glass out and some Chelsea fans rub their hands and become gleeful when that inevitable "rush of blood" happens. Gone are the regular forays upfield to overload the midfield, the dribbles that had bus-parking teams scratching their heads, and the frequent moments of genious that were discussed regularly at the water-cooler the next day. David Luiz has become a shell of the player that arrived. He is obviously being told to be more mechanical, more "traditional", more "British" in his positioning and risk-avoidance. But that isn't good enough for the traditionalists. "A defender's first job is to defend". To hell with that! We're driving a world-class, special, talented player out of Chelsea and it really makes me sad. No player is above the team, and obviously Chelsea's best interests are my best interests. Unfortunately, as a David Luiz fan, a fan with Luiz's name on the back of my jersey, I almost wish he would leave so that we can maintain that fantastically boring first pairing of Cahill/Terry where everyone will be happy that we won't be subject to Luiz's "deficiencies". Make no mistake, if he leaves and joins Barca or Bayern, they will exploit the very characteristics that some Chelsea fans love to hate. Those very characteristics that will make him a top 3 DEFENDER in the world. And then we'll be here sucking our thumbs wondering aloud "Why do we let the good ones get away?". Sorry for the rant, just felt like getting that off my chest. I know there are Luiz fans here who feel the same way, but I get sick of reading the other stuff.

[Special Juan 27,093]

When people talk like you do, you make it sound like he's capable of turning water into vine.

He's been more than good enough for us. We bought him for who and what he is.

Water into vine? Yeah he must be good then.

I asked a question, how exactly do you come to the conclusion "When people talk like me" or is this your brain in balloon mode again?

[The only place to be 11,313]

I ususally avoid this thread as it's depressing to read some of the things written about our very own sideshow bob. It seems a lot of people want him to be this robotic perfect defender who makes the "right" decisions and avoids those horrendous "rushes of blood".

Why is 'right' decisions in quotations? Doesn't everyone want him to make the 'right' decisions rather than the 'wrong' decisions?

Isn't that what a 'defender' is supposed to do so that we have a better chance of 'winning' games?

He is not Gary Cahill, he is not John Terry, he is not a "British" CB. I know people will come back with a defender's first job is to defend, but that's too easy, that's a copout.

British CBs have come in various forms and it's fantastically simplistic to imply they're all ball-hoofing neanderthals. Bobby Moore was English, so is Rio Ferdinand and many others who were more than comfortable on the ball without compromising their defensive responsibilities.

And like fuck is it a copout to say a defenders first job is to defend. That's the first thing their teammates want from them, it's the first ting the coach wants from them and it's the first thing the supporters want from them.

Now, he's the scapegoat, everyone has their magnifying glass out and some Chelsea fans rub their hands and become gleeful when that inevitable "rush of blood" happens.

Bullshit.

I didn't see glee in the eyes of supporters when he allowed Cardiff to score their goal. I saw resignation in the eyes of supporters, and no-one looked at all surprised.

. David Luiz has become a shell of the player that arrived. He is obviously being told to be more mechanical, more "traditional", more "British" in his positioning and risk-avoidance. But that isn't good enough for the traditionalists. "A defender's first job is to defend". To hell with that!

Now we're just being silly.

I almost wish he would leave so that we can maintain that fantastically boring first pairing of Cahill/Terry where everyone will be happy that we won't be subject to Luiz's "deficiencies".

The pairing that has been solid and keeping clean-sheets in the last few games that provides a stable platform for the likes of Hazard to show their world-class talent and give us a chance to win the title....

but David Luiz hasn't been playing as much...

". Sorry for the rant, just felt like getting that off my chest. I know there are Luiz fans here who feel the same way, but I get sick of reading the other stuff.

Don't apologise. It was quite good, if overly sentimental. You seem more concerned with how David Luiz does than how Chelsea do, but I get that. He's a fun personality with that crazy hair and the way he sticks his tongue out and gives a thumbs up. In some ways that's more important than winning matches....

Here's the thing though. He does make mistakes in defence and he has put in some fantastically lacklustre displays this season whilst also ducking out of challenges at Newcastle. That's why he's been dropped twice. We aren't driving him out. We're treating him like every other player in the squad and whilst Cahill might be 'mechanical' and 'boring', we have kept FIVE clean sheets in our last SIX games and the goal against Liverpool came from an Ivanovic mistake at a free-kick. We're looking better so I'm not entirely sure why there's fuss being made about Luiz.

In fact he's actually been rather good in his last few outings in midfield and was my MOTM against Hull. In that position we still get to see his skills on the pitch (and his sideshow Bob hair) without him being in the last line of defence.

[pachman40 357]

Why is 'right' decisions in quotations? Doesn't everyone want him to make the 'right' decisions rather than the 'wrong' decisions? Isn't that what a 'defender' is supposed to do so that we have a better chance of 'winning' games?

"Right" is in quotations because for some people on this forum there is only one correct decision when defending, one proper philosophy. Defend simply without complicating things and get the ball up to the midfield as soon as possible so they can start an attack. Yes that overly simplifies things, but the way people want David to play is overly simple as well.

British CBs have come in various forms and it's fantastically simplistic to imply they're all ball-hoofing neanderthals. Bobby Moore was English, so is Rio Ferdinand and many others who were more than comfortable on the ball without compromising their defensive responsibilities. And like fuck is it a copout to say a defenders first job is to defend. That's the first thing their teammates want from them, it's the first ting the coach wants from them and it's the first thing the supporters want from them.

I never implied that all British CB's are ball-hoofing neanderthals and you gave a couple of good examples of players who don't fit that traditional British style CB. However, the stereotypical style that British teams play include CB's who primarily sit back and play simple defence, move the ball forward to the mids/attackers and let them take care of the offence. This is not and never was the style that David Luiz plays. Fans, tv analysts, and the team are trying to stuff a square peg in a round hole.

Bullshit. I didn't see glee in the eyes of supporters when he allowed Cardiff to score their goal. I saw resignation in the eyes of supporters, and no-one looked at all surprised.

When Luiz makes mistakes like that, nobody is happy including David's fans. We are all resigned to the fact, and are not surprised that he makes mistakes, and we temper that with his creativity and what he adds to the build-up and offense in our team. But there is a faction that is ready to pounce and throw him under the bus at the earliest opportunity while ignoring the positive plays he's made. There is a certain fervour that analysts have when drawing attention to David's mistakes while downplaying or ignoring others who make similar or worse decisions. When somebody makes a mistake that directly results in a goal, it is no different in reality to when somebody makes a mistake that avoids worse consequences. Gary/JT have played great these last few games, but they've also made mistakes which fortunately weren't punished with a goal. Does that mean they defended better? Statistically its black and white, but its not always the case.

Now we're just being silly.

There's no denying that somebody is consciously changing David's style. Somebody is telling him to play less risky, don't make those constant runs upfield, stay in line. When he arrived, people thought the guy was nuts, he was so unorthodox, and that was what made him the player Chelsea coveted and spent big money to buy. He may still be that player inside and may end up playing like that under different management or in a different team, but for now he's doing what's asked of him including playing out of position. The way he plays now, I think we can all agree he is not playing to his potential.

The pairing that has been solid and keeping clean-sheets in the last few games that provides a stable platform for the likes of Hazard to show their world-class talent and give us a chance to win the title.... but David Luiz hasn't been playing as much... :cry:

No denying the clean sheets and stability Gary/JT are recently providing and I give them credit. But I think we all remember the disaster they were before this recent run. Does anyone remember the runs of clean sheets David has been involved in? Do I need to dig those up? I absolutely want Chelsea to succeed, even at the expense of Luiz, and if that means we are fed a diet of boring defence balanced by individual brilliance up front resulting in 1-0 wins from now until the end of the season then that's fine with me. I've resigned myself to that style given that Mourinho's tactics are reflecting that right now. I'm a Chelsea fan ahead of a David Luiz fan.

Don't apologise. It was quite good, if overly sentimental. You seem more concerned with how David Luiz does than how Chelsea do, but I get that. He's a fun personality with that crazy hair and the way he sticks his tongue out and gives a thumbs up. In some ways that's more important than winning matches.... Here's the thing though. He does make mistakes in defence and he has put in some fantastically lacklustre displays this season whilst also ducking out of challenges at Newcastle. That's why he's been dropped twice. We aren't driving him out. We're treating him like every other player in the squad and whilst Cahill might be 'mechanical' and 'boring', we have kept FIVE clean sheets in our last SIX games and the goal against Liverpool came from an Ivanovic mistake at a free-kick. We're looking better so I'm not entirely sure why there's fuss being made about Luiz. In fact he's actually been rather good in his last few outings in midfield and was my MOTM against Hull. In that position we still get to see his skills on the pitch (and his sideshow Bob hair) without him being in the last line of defence.

I think somebody else here is oversimplifying and insulting me as a fan implying that I'm blinded by cool hair and tongues sticking out. I won't patronize you so there's no need to patronize me. I agree that his form this season as a CB is below what's expected of him, and I choose to take a different view of his play than you do. David Luiz is not playing well as a CB because David Luiz is not playing his natural style. He's been gradually adapting to a less and less risky and more defensive based game and you can see it in his eyes, he's not the same player as he was when he arrived. I'm not trying to place him up on a pedestal by knocking down Gary and JT. Its my opinion. I respect that you're giving him credit for his play in midfield and in honesty that probably suits him better under Mourinho's philosophy. My whole point of the previous post was to say that we are wasting him and when he leaves and flourishes somewhere else there will be some negative nellies here that will blame the board, the manager, the fans, the garbageman, the mailroom staff and say 'he should've been a Chelsea legend", but they are the same people currently riding on the anti-Luiz bandwagon.