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You are always calming Israel has no right to replay,

No I did not. I said the retaliation is disproportional. Very much so and has been for decades. C

you are saying that we need to stop protect our people we must provide food water gas and electricity to Gaza while Israel is under fire. think for a second does it make scene?

No I didnt. But context matters. You forget the past, why do they need protecting in the first place? Plus, how is bombing a tightly locked strip of land with more than 50% children protection? It is sheer revenge and agression. Even Shin bet heads are now openly saying the only option put is through authentic debate. Not continuously violating every treaty possible and every UN resolution. Eg all the times you have been indicted.

we left Gaza 9 years ago we evacuate all the Jewish people who lived there what they did in replay to that? kidnapped our soldier, what did we did? we released more the 1000 terrorist who were in jail for killing Israelis. what country will let 1,000 people who tried to kill her citizen to be free for only 1 soldier?? That's right NO COUNTRY WILL DO IT, but we did. what do you think that those terrorist did? killed 3 teens 2 weeks ago, and you saying my country is too 'wing right'...

Also, yes those three teens were killed, if its Hamas none knows for sure yet. But even if it is, it was avenged by settlers porring gasoline down a young palestinians throat and setting him on fire. This immediatelly followed by bombings. So ..... Its a bit more nuanced. By the way, the comon worry now in Europe is indeed that the right wingedness is over the top. It Spears volumes that it is actually hard/ impossible to be a leftist nowadays there. That says a lot in a democracy.

Also, why are there soldiers everywhere, then why is it infused with Israeli checkpoints if you have 'retreated'. It is a concentraties camp, mate. Barb wired and everything. On the ostage taking- again context and history. Why did this happen? Also people dont just decide to kill themselves as suïcide bombers. What made them so desperate in the first place?

we will heat them with all the power that needed.

Like an oven .... I believe this .

I do listen to you, and i give examples, data, documentaries, artikels and opinions every time. Why not go about the same way if you have the facts on your Side? Fact embeded in context and history, mind you. This is such an important debate that im trying to do it in a civilized way. You are young, in a country full of turmoil. Every dissenting opinion is a blessing in disguise, i believe.

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No I did not. I said the retaliation is disproportional. Very much so and has been for decades. C

No I didnt. But context matters. You forget the past, why do they need protecting in the first place? Plus, how is bombing a tightly locked strip of land with more than 50% children protection? It is sheer revenge and agression. Even Shin bet heads are now openly saying the only option put is through authentic debate. Not continuously violating every treaty possible and every UN resolution. Eg all the times you have been indicted.

Also, yes those three teens were killed, if its Hamas none knows for sure yet. But even if it is, it was avenged by settlers porring gasoline down a young palestinians throat and setting him on fire. This immediatelly followed by bombings. So ..... Its a bit more nuanced. By the way, the comon worry now in Europe is indeed that the right wingedness is over the top. It Spears volumes that it is actually hard/ impossible to be a leftist nowadays there. That says a lot in a democracy.

Also, why are there soldiers everywhere, then why is it infused with Israeli checkpoints if you have 'retreated'. It is a concentraties camp, mate. Barb wired and everything. On the ostage taking- again context and history. Why did this happen? Also people dont just decide to kill themselves as suïcide bombers. What made them so desperate in the first place?

Like an oven .... I believe this .

I do listen to you, and i give examples, data, documentaries, artikels and opinions every time. Why not go about the same way if you have the facts on your Side? Fact embeded in context and history, mind you. This is such an important debate that im trying to do it in a civilized way. You are young, in a country full of turmoil. Every dissenting opinion is a blessing in disguise, i believe.

The Facts are very very simple i said it already but you will deny it again

Israel does not target innocent civilians - Hamas does.

Let me quote a sentence from our national anthem: " To be a free nation in our land, the land of zion and Jerusalem" - That's all what we want, you saw what Blue traveller posted earlier, this is the true face of hamas and Iran.

and we will fight anyone that will try to prevent us doing it. we suffered a bit more then 60 years ago the biggest crime ever we will not let it happen again!

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Israel does not target innocent civilians - Hamas does.

Yet you've killed over 200 civilians in the past week (including over 70 children if I'm not mistaken) while Hamas has killed one :lol: You always ignore posts that prove you wrong. Tell me, what is your targeting when bombing hospitals, mosques and schools if not civilians?!

The reason I dont believe it will happen is not due to cynicsm, I am beyond that, having observed Israel for the last 40 years. You just have to read some of the testimonies from IDF soldiers on 'If Only Americans Knew', how they say they are sent into Palestinian villages with instruction to make as much noise as possible, threaten, and to "provoke a response". This is a microcosm of Israeli foreign policy, with a corporate media screaming "Theyre all out to get us !!!"

One of my politics lecturers was an ex Israeli paratrooper, but a really nice guy. I always remember his likening of Israel to "a tooled up paranoid bully high on steroids and cocaine".

I know what you mean, mate. I too have long since reached this state of cynicism, but for someone so much involved in the conflict, something like that truce is like the pond in the middle of the desert the travel tries so hard to convince himself is there!
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Yet you've killed over 200 civilians in the past week (including over 70 children if I'm not mistaken) while Hamas has killed one :lol: You always ignore posts that prove you wrong. Tell me, what is your targeting when bombing hospitals, mosques and schools if not civilians?!

So you are saying that because the number of victims are higher in the other side we have no right to defend our self?

in Syria asad is killing he's own people for 2 or 3 years the number are much higher does anyone say anything? no.

but if Hamas is shooting on Israel it's fine cause the number of victims are higher

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So you are saying that because the number of victims are higher in the other side we have no right to defend our self?

in Syria asad is killing is own people for 2 or 3 years does anyone say anything? no.

but if Hamas is shooting on Israel it's fine cause the number of victims are higher

No, reread about 75% of all aforementioned posts for all the argumentaties and context.

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"The IDF are not targeting civilians."

Yes, those four kids playing on the beach are obviously dangerous terrorists!

Apparently those 4 kids were so dangerous, the IDF had to target them twice after missing the first time:

https://twitter.com/This_Is_Israel/status/489450783830990848

So you are saying that because the number of victims are higher in the other side we have no right to defend our self?

in Syria asad is killing he's own people for 2 or 3 years the number are much higher does anyone say anything? no.

but if Hamas is shooting on Israel it's fine cause the number of victims are higher

No, I'm saying you have no right to target civilians which you are CLEARLY doing.

And the fact that people are dying Syria does not make it okay for you to kill kids. I find it very weird that I actually have to say that!

Wait, did you say that nothing says anything about Syria?! :blink: It's been the number one topic in the world for over 3 years. World leaders come out and talk about it on a weekly basis. They have done everything in their power to remove Al Asad even when it meant dragging the whole region into a dark unknown tunnel. Yet, not a single country in the world has done anything yet affect in anyway the genocide occurring in Gaza.

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^ that 'This is Israel' tweet is disgusting.

The Western media coverage is so distorted, but it has strong zionist connections.

It is not a "war", it is not even a "conflict", as they like to describe it. It is genocide, pure and simple, yet it is constantly portrayed as Palestinian aggression with Israel forced to defend itself, whilst Palestinians, women and children are massacred.

Whenever Israel goes on a slaughterfest, I find myself arguing on forums, pubs, at work witha thousand images going through my head. The 1948 land grab, the occupied Palestinian infant school where the soldiers smeared shit on the childrens paintings, the destruction of olive groves, the worst pictures ever of shatilla 1982...etc

Protocols of the Elder of Zion chapter by chapter

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Protocols of the Elder of Zion chapter by chapter

A dangerous hoax, that potentially inspired Wagner and the nazis...although there is far more support for Israel than for the Palestinians within all facets of western capitalism. In the UK we have an all party group in Parliament 'Friends of Israel', in the US there is Aipac, giving 8m a day, cultural references, holocaust references increasing year on year. I have never heard of an arabic anti-defamation league...

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A dangerous hoax, that potentially inspired Wagner and the nazis...although there is far more support for Israel than for the Palestinians within all facets of western capitalism. In the UK we have an all party group in Parliament 'Friends of Israel', in the US there is Aipac, giving 8m a day, cultural references, holocaust references increasing year on year. I have never heard of an arabic anti-defamation league...

The Arabs have had their hands full ever since the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the mass colonizations. Not to mention the long list of incompetent leaders. That is changing though. It will take time, but surely within less than a decade there will be major changes in the region.
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Just to provide a bit of balance because it seems the conversation has now been slanted terribly in one direction. Like I said earlier, it's impossible to discuss the Israel-Palestine issue without religious bias getting in the way of common sense and reason. The reality is that except for the few gullible, most people in the West are not buying the propaganda anymore, not even the Neo-Liberals.

Hamas, which is nothing more than a terrorist organisation democratically voted in by the people of Palestine indiscriminately fires rockets into the Israel year in year out with the intention to kill and destroy the Jews and wipe them of the face of the earth. Just this year alone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014 The Iron Dome of course intercepts these rockets. The moment Israel sees it fit to defend itself, there is a national cry by the Petro-dollar funded Islamic lobby against the "Zionists" really just a code word for "Jew" as the two have now become interchangeable. Hamas use the Palestinian kids as human shields (as they like to tell us), strategically locating little kids near weapon storage warehouses or intentionally ignoring intel on impending airstrikes. Of course the parents of these kids are all to willing to let their children die as Martyrs all "for the sake of Allah". The Palestinian children are being brainwashed to hate the "Zionists". I can think of no form of evil greater than that.

Who the hell on earth does this?

We see it year after year, Hamas shooting rockets into civilian area with the hope of killing "Zionists". It's a rinse and repeat.

(1) Hamas rejects cease-fire.

(2) Hamas shoots rockets with areas with children.

(3) Children die.

Who is the real enemy of the Palestinians? It's Hamas and it's virulent radical element. This is the most balanced video I've seen explaining how Palestinians do not have a right to the land they claim.

Unfortunately, I've come to understand that most of the Muslim hostility towards the Jew is purely a religious issue and has nothing to do with land. It started with Muhammad and the Jewish tribes in Arabia and it continues today in the Muslim world. It's much more than "land". Anyone saying otherwise is being ignorant at best and deceptive at worst. Many people are not aware that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem joined forces with Hitler in the last years of The Third Reich and helped Germany recruit Bosnian soldiers to join the SS army and help slaughter the Jews. This was 5 years before Israel was even a state.

On a more general note, using words like "genocide" on this forum and on other forums where I see words like "Apartheid", "Holocaust" being used to describe what is happening in Gaza is not clever and it infact demeans real genocides and Apartheid that have occurred in the past. If Israel really wanted to commit genocide against these people, they will be dead in 24 hours. Real genocides are being committed in places like Nigeria and Kashmir where Christians and Hindus are being target and killed because of their religion by Islamic terrorists. The things I hear from back home scares me. Nigeria is no longer a safe place to live anymore, because of the Boko Haram. Jihad is being fought in India, Pakistan, Nigeria, North Africa, Chechnya and the ME in general. Don't even let me get started on the Cultural Jihad being waged on the Western European countries. Isn't it a fucked world when a Danish cartoonist draws a cartoon about Muhammad and Muslims riot, burn down flags (mostly USA and Israel flags) and destroy the embassies but when mini-genocides are committed in the name of Islam, there is complete silence. When the Jews protect themselves the world goes nuts. Just look at this.

Any non-Muslim will say that's hypocrisy and lack of empathy. And again, I think that stems from the texts of the Qur'an and Hadiths and it's very negative attitude toward the unbeliever.

Look, I'm not typing all of this to be mean of to be offensive to anyone of you guys because I consider you (the Muslims is who I'm addressing now) decent people and supporters of my beloved Chelsea but a much needed reformation of Islam and serious condemnation of the acts of these terrorists and mad men is needed. When is the killing in the name of Islam going to end? Leg dragging on the matter won't do. "Islamophobia" and all these other now popular catch-phrases won't do. Put yourself in the shoes of a non-Muslim and think about it.

Finally, all this Israel Zionist blame game has been done before. Many have historically blamed the Jews for all the world's problems. It's just sad to me as a "neutral" in all of this. In the Third Reich, Hitler systematically stripped the Jews of all their basic human rights till the Final Solution were he wiped out 67% of Jews on the earth. Speak of genocide. The same tired anti-semitic stuff I hear Hamas preaching and radical Muslim leaders and teachers speaking in 2014. That's saddening and my heart truly aches for the kids in the Middle East having to be indoctrinated to believe what can simply be defined as pure evil and hate. It's happened before. Here is a Nazi propaganda film blaming the "Zionists". All through creation Satan has and continues to use different people to destroy the Jews. Anyone who has read the Bible knows why.

P.S : This was just a general observation on what I and many others in the States and beyond observe in the world around us today concerning the Isreali-Palestine conflict, the Middle East and the Muslim World. I won't reply to any of this. You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. God bless.

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Just to provide a bit of balance because it seems the conversation has now been slanted terribly in one direction. Like I said earlier, it's impossible to discuss the Israel-Palestine issue without religious bias getting in the way of common sense and reason. The reality is that except for the few gullible, most people in the West are not buying the propaganda anymore, not even the Neo-Liberals.

Hamas, which is nothing more than a terrorist organisation democratically voted in by the people of Palestine indiscriminately fires rockets into the Israel year in year out with the intention to kill and destroy the Jews and wipe them of the face of the earth. Just this year alone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014 The Iron Dome of course intercepts these rockets. The moment Israel sees it fit to defend itself, there is a national cry by the Petro-dollar funded Islamic lobby against the "Zionists" really just a code word for "Jew" as the two have now become interchangeable. Hamas use the Palestinian kids as human shields (as they like to tell us), strategically locating little kids near weapon storage warehouses or intentionally ignoring intel on impending airstrikes. Of course the parents of these kids are all to willing to let their children die as Martyrs all "for the sake of Allah". The Palestinian children are being brainwashed to hate the "Zionists". I can think of no form of evil greater than that.

Who the hell on earth does this?

We see it year after year, Hamas shooting rockets into civilian area with the hope of killing "Zionists". It's a rinse and repeat.

(1) Hamas rejects cease-fire.

(2) Hamas shoots rockets with areas with children.

(3) Children die.

Who is the real enemy of the Palestinians? It's Hamas and it's virulent radical element. This is the most balanced video I've seen explaining how Palestinians do not have a right to the land they claim.

Unfortunately, I've come to understand that most of the Muslim hostility towards the Jew is purely a religious issue and has nothing to do with land. It started with Muhammad and the Jewish tribes in Arabia and it continues today in the Muslim world. It's much more than "land". Anyone saying otherwise is being ignorant at best and deceptive at worst. Many people are not aware that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem joined forces with Hitler in the last years of The Third Reich and helped Germany recruit Bosnian soldiers to join the SS army and help slaughter the Jews. This was 5 years before Israel was even a state.

On a more general note, using words like "genocide" on this forum and on other forums where I see words like "Apartheid", "Holocaust" being used to describe what is happening in Gaza is not clever and it infact demeans real genocides and Apartheid that have occurred in the past. If Israel really wanted to commit genocide against these people, they will be dead in 24 hours. Real genocides are being committed in places like Nigeria and Kashmir where Christians and Hindus are being target and killed because of their religion by Islamic terrorists. The things I hear from back home scares me. Nigeria is no longer a safe place to live anymore, because of the Boko Haram. Jihad is being fought in India, Pakistan, Nigeria, North Africa, Chechnya and the ME in general. Don't even let me get started on the Cultural Jihad being waged on the Western European countries. Isn't it a fucked world when a Danish cartoonist draws a cartoon about Muhammad and Muslims riot, burn down flags (mostly USA and Israel flags) and destroy the embassies but when mini-genocides are committed in the name of Islam, there is complete silence. When the Jews protect themselves the world goes nuts. Just look at this.

Any non-Muslim will say that's hypocrisy and lack of empathy. And again, I think that stems from the texts of the Qur'an and Hadiths and it's very negative attitude toward the unbeliever.

Look, I'm not typing all of this to be mean of to be offensive to anyone of you guys because I consider you (the Muslims is who I'm addressing now) decent people and supporters of my beloved Chelsea but a much needed reformation of Islam and serious condemnation of the acts of these terrorists and mad men is needed. When is the killing in the name of Islam going to end? Leg dragging on the matter won't do. "Islamophobia" and all these other now popular catch-phrases won't do. Put yourself in the shoes of a non-Muslim and think about it.

Finally, all this Israel Zionist blame game has been done before. Many have historically blamed the Jews for all the world's problems. It's just sad to me as a "neutral" in all of this. In the Third Reich, Hitler systematically stripped the Jews of all their basic human rights till the Final Solution were he wiped out 67% of Jews on the earth. Speak of genocide. The same tired anti-semitic stuff I hear Hamas preaching and radical Muslim leaders and teachers speaking in 2014. That's saddening and my heart truly aches for the kids in the Middle East having to be indoctrinated to believe what can simply be defined as pure evil and hate. It's happened before. Here is a Nazi propaganda film blaming the "Zionists". All through creation Satan has and continues to use different people to destroy the Jews. Anyone who has read the Bible knows why.

P.S : This was just a general observation on what I and many others in the States and beyond observe in the world around us today concerning the Isreali-Palestine conflict, the Middle East and the Muslim World. I won't reply to any of this. You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. God bless.

1. Im an atheïst. You are clearly not so the bias your writing about is hurting your own argument hugely.

2. What about before Hamas? And what does that say?

3. What about context of the occupation that triggers the entire damn thing?

4. If anything it is the US that has the most propaganda spewed of the entire west. Remind me how much billion dollar a year you give to Israel? 1/3 of the complete budget on foreigners aid, in weapins mostly.

5. If its so biased, why does the UN disagree consistently, why does Human rights watch disagree?why does pretty much the entire world disagree?

6. If arabs hate jews so much 'by nature', why was it that jews had it best in the world during history in episodes under muslim rule. Eg: Palestina before the invasion, or even more famous- the golden century in Spain in the middle Ages. All periods jewish people were progrommed from non muslims.

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1. Im an atheïst. You are clearly not so the bias your writing about is hurting your own argument hugely.

2. What about before Hamas? And what does that say?

3. What about context of the occupation that triggers the entire damn thing?

4. If anything it is the US that has the most propaganda spewed of the entire west. Remind me how much billion dollar a year you give to Israel? 1/3 of the complete budget on foreigners aid, in weapins mostly.

5. If its so biased, why does the UN disagree consistently, why does Human rights watch disagree?why does pretty much the entire world disagree?

6. If arabs hate jews so much 'by nature', why was it that jews had it best in the world during history in episodes under muslim rule. Eg: Palestina before the invasion, or even more famous- the golden century in Spain in the middle Ages. All periods jewish people were progrommed from non muslims.

30 billion dollars :)

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