Gary Cahill

[BlueLyon 9,359]

So where did you "check"?

You have a serious problem with facts vs opinion: the fact is PSG did pay 50m while your "opinion" is that he's not worth 50m.

Barca offer was gong to be 35M (also not a fact but some reports), so PSG had to outbid them. So, why hasn't Gary gotten any offer ever? Why isn't any top side after him?

Look I like Luiz too, he is funny guy and great person, but Psg paid 50m for Luiz awesome hair, not because he would be great defender.

Pastore went for 40m too. Does that make him a 40m player? Did he pay the price invested? Hazard went for less. Is Pastore a better player than? Was Illara ever worth 40m and therefore better player than Alonso, a player that RM bought "only" 35m?

Money spent on certain player means shit all. It depends on who is the seller, how marketable is player and how stupid the buyer is. It doesnt tell how good certain player is.

I can say that Luiz could be hit in Psg, but he wont justify the 50m, unless he makes 10 goal clearances and scores winning header in CL final for psg.

And with Cahill in defence, we managed to stop Messi, and this year with Cahill in defence we stopped Cavani, Suarez, Chicarito,..players that scored against us when Luiz was playing as CB in previous years.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

" Luiz has more awesome hair."

That's a ridiculous stament. So, you are saying PSG paid 50m for his hair. You know it's not the owner right? that they have scouts, agents, coaches who are paid to research and get the data on stuff like this? Yeah yeah everybody is an idiot, except Chelsea fans who think Gary is the best defender in the world.

Never seen any reports about any team after Gary, and he'd be awful at Barca; they need high blocking defenders. (this is an opinion)

Why are you brazilians that blind? I never said Garry is best in world, not even close. But he is still better than Luiz as defender and thats the whole point. No one is saying cahill is best, just that he is better than Luiz.

And I hope you will undertand that part with awesome hair was more of a joke than anything else...

And yes Gary was linked with barca few years ago, i dont mind if you dont believe it...

Price is all about marketing, Luiz is extremely marketable CB and thats why the price was high. The whole thing made Luiz look like a world CB, but he simply isnt that. Anyway Im sure we will find that out soon next year when we see Luiz play weekin week out for Psg. CL stages will be interesting.

[robsblubot 3,205]

Look I like Luiz too, he is funny guy and great person, but Psg paid 50m for Luiz awesome hair, not because he would be great defender.

Pastore went for 40m too. Does that make him a 40m player? Did he pay the price invested? Hazard went for less. Is Pastore a better player than? Was Illara ever worth 40m and therefore better player than Alonso, a player that RM bought "only" 35m?

Money spent on certain player means shit all. It depends on who is the seller, how marketable is player and how stupid the buyer is. It doesnt tell how good certain player is.

I can say that Luiz could be hit in Psg, but he wont justify the 50m, unless he makes 10 goal clearances and scores winning header in CL final for psg.

And with Cahill in defence, we managed to stop Messi, and this year with Cahill in defence we stopped Cavani, Suarez, Chicarito,..players that scored against us when Luiz was playing as CB in previous years.

You keep repeating this absolutely ridiculous statement based on nothing other than your very personal opinion. There is really nothing to discuss about this.

It is indeed widely accepted PSG overpaid for David Luiz. However, by how much? Chelsea priced him at 35m, so of course they overpaid to get him because they had to! Given a choice, DL would prob go to Barca or Bayern.

Now if you think Barca, Bayern, and PSG were after David Luiz because of his hair, that's a again, a pretty fantastic view of the very professional world of football - especially the players market.

The only pundits who don't rate Luiz are English. DL makes "a mistake" and a member of this forum goes on and on how that was a mistake and all. Then Cahill makes a similar "mistake" for England... not a peep... (neither were mistakes to me BTW).

So, I assume you must be surprised how Brazil doesn't seem to concede goals, even though they play with 2 attacking fullbacks and Paulinho in front of him, not to mention glorious QPR GK behind. Ah I forgot it's the perfect 1m83cm giant Thiago Silva who always covers for DL.

OK dude, we shall see. Just don't be surprised if PSG are much stronger next season in the CL, because money does buy quality.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

You keep repeating this absolutely ridiculous statement based on nothing other than your very personal opinion. There is really nothing to discuss about this.

It is indeed widely accepted PSG overpaid for David Luiz. However, by how much? Chelsea priced him at 35m, so of course they overpaid to get him because they had to! Given a choice, DL would prob go to Barca or Bayern.

Now if you think Barca, Bayern, and PSG were after David Luiz because of his hair, that's a again, a pretty fantastic view of the very professional world of football - especially the players market.

The only pundits who don't rate Luiz are English. DL makes "a mistake" and a member of this forum goes on and on how that was a mistake and all. Then Cahill makes a similar "mistake" for England... not a peep... (neither were mistakes to me BTW).

So, I assume you must be surprised how Brazil doesn't seem to concede goals, even though they play with 2 attacking fullbacks and Paulinho in front of him, not to mention glorious QPR GK behind. Ah I forgot it's the perfect 1m83cm giant Thiago Silva who always covers for DL.

OK dude, we shall see. Just don't be surprised if PSG are much stronger next season in the CL, because money does buy quality.

That hair thing went out of control hh, but I remember people were saying how great Psg will be with Lucas and Marquinhos and all, Im sure the story will be the same with Luiz because Blanc isnt the man to push Psg that far. They paid 60m for Cavani just to play him on wing. Yet that duo didnt destroy opponents as predicted. And Luiz wont make their defence much stronger either.

Oh and money buys quality? Yes we got superb quality in Torres for 50m. I completely agree on that. The scouts did realy well on that one. Torres was though to be world class, but he wasnt. Same is with Luiz. Since Leonardo and Carlo left, hey are buying without real plan.

Cahill isnt better player, but a better defender who is more reliable. Nothing else to say.

[robsblubot 3,205]

That hair thing went out of control hh, but I remember people were saying how great Psg will be with Lucas and Marquinhos and all, Im sure the story will be the same with Luiz because Blanc isnt the man to push Psg that far. They paid 60m for Cavani just to play him on wing. Yet that duo didnt destroy opponents as predicted. And Luiz wont make their defence much stronger either.

Oh and money buys quality? Yes we got superb quality in Torres for 50m. I completely agree on that. The scouts did realy well on that one. Torres was though to be world class, but he wasnt. Same is with Luiz. Since Leonardo and Carlo left, hey are buying without real plan.

Cahill isnt better player, but a better defender who is more reliable. Nothing else to say.

We shall see. I think David Luiz is far more proven than any those you mention. Torres is really a completely different subject with very little to do with DL.

Fair enough. Now we finally go into opinions again: to me DL virtues are defensive indeed! The high block he does IS BETTER than a low block! Why? Because in my view, with a good delivery, like the one which allowed Victor to beat Luiz or the one which allowed Balotelli to beat Cahill, the defenders will very often get beaten; that's how goals are scored.

So, if you can stop an attack higher on the pitch, you may be preventing the delivery itself. Again, this is a personal opinion, and some very famous coaches prefer a different approach, ours included. I don't claim to know better; just that there are many ways to win, because I've seen many very different winning sides.

Gary is a good defender. Not world class and I don't see him ever becoming a target for another top club, unless at the end of his contract for ex.

What really concerns me is that we don't have any defender who can play in a high block. Haven't seen Zouma though. Reckon you gotta have the option, even if not your preferred way of playing, for those games where you gotta pressure from the get go.

[BenIsLegend 475]

http://www.campaignlive.co.uk/thework/1298615/

Oh Gaz! He pulls off that look quite well though lol

[The Skipper 20,593]

Why are you brazilians that blind? I never said Garry is best in world, not even close. But he is still better than Luiz as defender and thats the whole point. No one is saying cahill is best, just that he is better than Luiz.

Cahill is a better defender in certain systems, Luiz is a better defender in others. It isn't a fact about who's better or not, that might be your opinion but not everyone shares that.

For example myself. I'm not Brazilian but when both are on top form Luiz is the better defender IMO, so it really isn't a "Brazilian" thing either.

Barca, Bayern and PSG would never buy Cahill because he would be below average in their systems. Luiz is a proactive defender, goes for interceptions and tries to win the ball back ASAP whilst Cahill is a reactive defender, backs off and waits for the right moment to tackle an attacker.

If you think Luiz cost PSG £50m because of his hair then you're just wrong IMO. There's many reasons why he went for that price i.e. the fact that he suits their system like a glove, is the ideal partner for T. Silva, the fact we aren't a selling club, his versatility, big game performances etc...

In a high line defensive system Luiz is just the better defender because that suits his defensive attributes better whilst in a low to medium block system Cahill shines more because it suits his defensive attributes more.

Personally I think when both are on top form, Luiz is the better defender, but that's just my personal preference just like yours is Cahill. It isn't a fact.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Cahill is a better defender in certain systems, Luiz is a better defender in others. It isn't a fact about who's better or not, that might be your opinion but not everyone shares that.

For example myself. I'm not Brazilian but when both are on top form Luiz is the better defender IMO, so it really isn't a "Brazilian" thing either.

Barca, Bayern and PSG would never buy Cahill because he would be below average in their systems. Luiz is a proactive defender, goes for interceptions and tries to win the ball back ASAP whilst Cahill is a reactive defender, backs off and waits for the right moment to tackle an attacker.

If you think Luiz cost PSG £50m because of his hair then you're just wrong IMO. There's many reasons why he went for that price i.e. he fact that he suits their system like a glove, is the ideal partner for T. Silva, the fact we aren't a selling club, his versatility, big game performances etc...

In a high line defensive system Luiz is just the better defender because that suits his defensive attributes better whilst in a low to medium block system Cahill shines more because it suits his defensive attributes more.

Personally I think when both are on top form, Luiz is the better defender, but that's just my personal preference just like yours is Cahill. It isn't a fact.

Fair enough, I think for Chelsea system, Cahill is the better defender than Luiz and that is the most important thing for us in the end.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Fair enough, I think for Chelsea system, Cahill is the better defender than Luiz and that is the most important thing for us in the end.

I unequivocally agree. There's no comparison. Cahill is the "safer" option, safe because he can actually defend properly. Luiz always looks like he's one brainfart away from disaster.

[The Skipper 20,593]

I unequivocally agree. There's no comparison. Cahill is the "safer" option, safe because he can actually defend properly. Luiz always looks like he's one brainfart away from disaster.

Cahill is the "safer" option in our system yes, but if you put Cahill in a high line defensive system he'd be even more unsafe than Luiz in a low block system.

Luiz can obviously defend properly as well, you're contradicting yourself when you say he's a "brain fart" away - that points to concentration issues rather than defensive ability.

Do you think PSG, Bayern and Barca were stupid enough to be willing to spend ~£30m+ on a defender that can't defend? Just because he doesn't have your preferred way of defending doesn't mean he can't.

You say that because you're a GK you prefer a safer, no risk option at the back, but that's due to the type of GK you are. Myself, as a GK, I prefer and really like a CB that is very confident on the ball and is proactive in getting the ball - when I play in goals (usually in a high line system) I'm always on the lookout to come out and rush the ball i.e. Neuer/Lloris so I prefer a more proactive CB - but that's just the sort of keeper I am.

As I said before, It really comes down to preference and the style of defending you prefer.

[Polo7 3,496]

Luiz has proved time and time again that he is a huge liability at the back. He can defend but his judgement at times is ridiculous. Thats the reason he isnt reliable.

[Polo7 3,496]

Cahill is the "safer" option in our system yes, but if you put Cahill in a high line defensive system he'd be even more unsafe than Luiz in a low block system.

Luiz can obviously defend properly as well, you're contradicting yourself when you say he's a "brain fart" away - that points to concentration issues rather than defensive ability.

Do you think PSG, Bayern and Barca were stupid enough to be willing to spend ~£30m+ on a defender that can't defend? Just because he doesn't have your preferred way of defending doesn't mean he can't.

You say that because you're a GK you prefer a safer, no risk option at the back, but that's due to the type of GK you are. Myself, as a GK, I prefer and really like a CB that is very confident on the ball and is proactive in getting the ball - when I play in goals (usually in a high line system) I'm always on the lookout to come out and rush the ball i.e. Neuer/Lloris so I prefer a more proactive CB - but that's just the sort of keeper I am.

As I said before, It really comes down to preference and the style of defending you prefer.

We paid £50m for a striker who cant score....whats your point?

[Madmax 9,219]

We paid £50m for a striker who cant score....whats your point?

I think he has made his point quite well but you want to ignore it while taking one sentence out of context.

[didierforever 7,349]

Last time I checked, Luiz isn't worth £50m. But whatever floats your boat, yo.

according to robguima... bale is better than ronaldo, messi, maria etc etc.. infact bale is the bestest player EVER. since the transfer market is the best way to.judge a player. Also torres os better than DD, zlatan, henry etc etc. Torrss is the best striker. He was also brought for 50mil and the narket does not lie.

[robsblubot 3,205]

according to robguima... bale is better than ronaldo, messi, maria etc etc.. infact bale is the bestest player EVER. since the transfer market is the best way to.judge a player. Also torres os better than DD, zlatan, henry etc etc. Torrss is the best striker. He was also brought for 50mil and the narket does not lie.

no, I never said player's valuations are that precise. Just that they ought to be taken into account, because they will never be that "off" either. Had PSG not been in the picture and DL would've been sold for 35m, which is hardly cheap for a defender. We bought him for 21M + Matic! So it's also not a one time thing either. Now, I am NOT the one here who chooses to ignore all these facts.

I've said over and over that PSG as the new rich has to overpay to acquire players... was it any different with City or even us before?

Just for the record, I'm not a big fan of Ronaldo and think Bale isn't t that far behind him (higher ceiling too). Messi (who's a genius) doesn't even have a price tag on him.

-------

Anyway David Luiz is gone and got us a lot of cash in return.

Shouldn't we be talking about Gary here though? How does he fare against other low block defenders?

Top of my head, Terry is still better; Godin is better as well; then you have players who are comfortable with both high and low blocks, like Kompany and Sergio Ramos. Though I feel Kompany is more comfortable in a low block. There aren't that many players of his type, who are much superior than Cahill.

[didierforever 7,349]

no, I never said player's valuations are that precise. Just that they ought to be taken into account, because they will never be that "off" either. Had PSG not been in the picture and DL would've been sold for 35m, which is hardly cheap for a defender. We bought him for 21M + Matic! So it's also not a one time thing either. Now, I am NOT the one here who chooses to ignore all these facts.

I've said over and over that PSG as the new rich has to overpay to acquire players... was it any different with City or even us before?

Just for the record, I'm not a big fan of Ronaldo and think Bale isn't t that far behind him (higher ceiling too). Messi (who's a genius) doesn't even have a price tag on him.

-------

Anyway David Luiz is gone and got us a lot of cash in return.

Shouldn't we be talking about Gary here though? How does he fare against other low block defenders?

Top of my head, Terry is still better; Godin is better as well; then you have players who are comfortable with both high and low blocks, like Kompany and Sergio Ramos. Though I feel Kompany is more comfortable in a low block. There aren't that many players of his type, who are much superior than Cahill.

We bought a 25mil £ 24 or something year old, potentially world next best center back. Fair enough? Maybe but STILL over priced.

I am not denying any facts. If price was a criteria to see a Players' calibre then luiz would have been the best EVER.Unfortunately for him and fortunately for the world it is not. The fact is that while luiz is a top top FOOTBALLER, his concentration, brain darts, decision making make hin anything but a world class defender. Those are the facts.

[robsblubot 3,205]

We bought a 25mil £ 24 or something year old, potentially world next best center back. Fair enough? Maybe but STILL over priced.

I am not denying any facts. If price was a criteria to see a Players' calibre then luiz would have been the best EVER.Unfortunately for him and fortunately for the world it is not. The fact is that while luiz is a top top FOOTBALLER, his concentration, brain darts, decision making make hin anything but a world class defender. Those are the facts.

no dude, they are opinions.

David Luiz sold for 50M = FACT

David Luiz bought for 21m + Matic = FACT

Brain farts, bad decision making, never world class = OPINION

I for one have a hard time taking these opinions seriously, when considering the facts listed above.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Cahill is the "safer" option in our system yes, but if you put Cahill in a high line defensive system he'd be even more unsafe than Luiz in a low block system.

Luiz can obviously defend properly as well, you're contradicting yourself when you say he's a "brain fart" away - that points to concentration issues rather than defensive ability.

Do you think PSG, Bayern and Barca were stupid enough to be willing to spend ~£30m+ on a defender that can't defend? Just because he doesn't have your preferred way of defending doesn't mean he can't.

You say that because you're a GK you prefer a safer, no risk option at the back, but that's due to the type of GK you are. Myself, as a GK, I prefer and really like a CB that is very confident on the ball and is proactive in getting the ball - when I play in goals (usually in a high line system) I'm always on the lookout to come out and rush the ball i.e. Neuer/Lloris so I prefer a more proactive CB - but that's just the sort of keeper I am.

As I said before, It really comes down to preference and the style of defending you prefer.

I don't want the ball anywhere near my goal. A defender who boots the ball upfield is doing what he's paid to do. If I want someone to try and dribble around four players and then, on most occasions, lose possession of the ball, I'd ask my wingers to play at centre-half. As you say, it's down to your own personal preference. But, in my honest opinion, for what I believe a defender should do - and I base these characteristics on the Ricardo Carvalhos, John Terrys and Alexs of this world - I want them, primarily, not to give me a heart attack every time he touches the ball. That's why I like Gary "the safe option" Cahill.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. However if you think that PSG aren't being stupid in offering £48 million for the bloke...