Juan Mata

[Muzchap 8,964]

Agree with Waterfall - gotta look at the big picture... Thing is Mata was our best player. BUT we relied on 1 man, if he had an average game we lost... Our performances over the past 2 seasons where shocking... It's easy to look back with rosé tinted glasses...

What Jose is trying to bring is a collective, a unit - a team that wins

I don't know whether it's right or not. But I wanted Mourinho and if this is the price we have to pay, then it will hurt - but ultimately he is doing it for the Team...

Only time will tell if its the right decision - but as a fan of Mata and football in general, the poor lad deserves to be playing, not rotting on a bench...

[Shane 2,275]

So you're going to question Mourinho if the player that you want to get 90 minutes doesn't get them at the weekend, regardless of the result and regardless of said player's performance?

No it didn't work perfectly. It wasn't solely down to Mata, but we were a soft team for a lot of that time. We were disjointed between midfield and attack whereas now we're a much more cohesive, harder-working unit. Jose is starting Oscar in that role because he thinks he can win more games that way.

There are some people who really need to have a word with themselves because they're spouting a lot of shit, not just about Mata but about their fellow Chelsea supporters. No-one has derided him as the Spanish Charlie Adam as one miserable soul as suggested. The constant shrieking accusations from certain members that the club have treated him disgracefully are beyond pathetic too. For the first time in years we have a manager who is world-class and getting results, and because he chooses not to play one player (instead picking other world-class players) people act like spoilt little children. It's embarrassing. We beat Man United at the weekend with ease and people are willing to question Mourinho if ONE player doesn't get 90 minutes in the next match?

Chill out abit mate.

I would question whether its for his style of play or just a dislike on Jose's part if Juan doesn't get 90 minutes at the weekend, Because if he doesn't get 90 minutes at the weekend, When is he going to get his chance? He was taken off against Southampton after 53 minutes. He hasn't featured in the 3 games we've played since, Which included an FA Cup tie against Championship opposition.

I'd also like to see Juan as I feel Oscar didn't play that well against United. Didn't contribute to any of our goals and missed a chance himself. I feel this is the time to bring Juan back into the side as it will also serve to Oscar that his place isn't guaranteed week in, week out. It's nothing to do with Mata being one of my favorite players, Because I believe Oscar on form is better in the #10 role then Juan, But I do believe that Mata has a bigger part to play in the club then Jose is giving him right now.

I'm loving Mourinho being back, and like you I fucking hate the glory hunters and whinging little bitches when we don't win 4-0, But its just strange to see a player of Mata's quality have such a small role to play this season, when, if giving the chance, he can be one of our outstanding performers like he has done in the past two seasons.

[ZOS 580]

just don't sell him to the manures, please

[lionsden 4,689]

Chill out abit mate.

I would question whether its for his style of play or just a dislike on Jose's part if Juan doesn't get 90 minutes at the weekend, Because if he doesn't get 90 minutes at the weekend, When is he going to get his chance? He was taken off against Southampton after 53 minutes. He hasn't featured in the 3 games we've played since, Which included an FA Cup tie against Championship opposition.

I'd also like to see Juan as I feel Oscar didn't play that well against United. Didn't contribute to any of our goals and missed a chance himself. I feel this is the time to bring Juan back into the side as it will also serve to Oscar that his place isn't guaranteed week in, week out. It's nothing to do with Mata being one of my favorite players, Because I believe Oscar on form is better in the #10 role then Juan, But I do believe that Mata has a bigger part to play in the club then Jose is giving him right now.

I'm loving Mourinho being back, and like you I fucking hate the glory hunters and whinging little bitches when we don't win 4-0, But its just strange to see a player of Mata's quality have such a small role to play this season, when, if giving the chance, he can be one of our outstanding performers like he has done in the past two seasons.

I was with you until the bolded bit. I'm sorry but what. Based on what exactly? I have never seen or heard anyone make such remark before. even those in support of oscar over mata have always admitted that mata is the superior no 10 but that oscar suits jose's style better. being superior and suiting a certain style better are two completely different things entirely.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Chill out abit mate.

I would question whether its for his style of play or just a dislike on Jose's part if Juan doesn't get 90 minutes at the weekend, Because if he doesn't get 90 minutes at the weekend, When is he going to get his chance? He was taken off against Southampton after 53 minutes. He hasn't featured in the 3 games we've played since, Which included an FA Cup tie against Championship opposition.

We were really bad in those first 50 minutes. Regardless of his response, the removal of Mata and Schurrle and the introduction of Oscar and Willian radically changed that match. In fact since Mata last played (including the 37 minutes after he was removed in the Southampton match) we're won 4 (2 away from home) scoring 10 and conceding 1.

I'm loving Mourinho being back, and like you I fucking hate the glory hunters and whinging little bitches when we don't win 4-0, But its just strange to see a player of Mata's quality have such a small role to play this season, when, if giving the chance, he can be one of our outstanding performers like he has done in the past two seasons.

Mata's problem is that Mourinho sees him more useful as a right-winger. The funny thing is that United fans seem to envision him playing that role too because they don't want to move Rooney who has been wildly productive in the 10 position himself. I think he probably will start against either Stoke or West Ham but more likely in a wide role, and I hope he does well because he can offer us so much but I trust Jose. We keep waiting for that moment where Juan gives Jose exactly what he wants but if he doesn't or isn't able to then there is a lot of money potentially out there for him (ideally to PSG) and I trust the club to use it to bring in someone more appropriate.

I tried second guessing them on the Willian transfer and they seem to have proven me wrong. Then they went and sowed up the Matic deal which had other teams green with envy. I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Shane 2,275]

I was with you until the bolded bit. I'm sorry but what. Based on what exactly? I have never heard anyone make such comment before. even those in support of oscar over mata have always conceded to mata being the superior no 10 but that oscar suits jose's style better.

Because he can create chances, Score goals and equally adapt into a centre midfield role when the two are under pressure. I feel he can dictate a game better then Juan can, and gives us control in possesion.

Mata has usually played as a narrow winger for us as well, Usually, not just under Jose, when Oscar and Mata have been on the pitch together, Oscar has been in the #10 role.

[Shane 2,275]

We were really bad in those first 50 minutes. Regardless of his response, the removal of Mata and Schurrle and the introduction of Oscar and Willian radically changed that match. In fact since Mata last played (including the 37 minutes after he was removed in the Southampton match) we're won 4 (2 away from home) scoring 10 and conceding 1.

Mata's problem is that Mourinho sees him more useful as a right-winger. The funny thing is that United fans seem to envision him playing that role too because they don't want to move Rooney who has been wildly productive in the 10 position himself. I think he probably will start against either Stoke or West Ham but more likely in a wide role, and I hope he does well because he can offer us so much but I trust Jose. We keep waiting for that moment where Juan gives Jose exactly what he wants but if he doesn't or isn't able to then there is a lot of money potentially out there for him (ideally to PSG) and I trust the club to use it to bring in someone more appropriate.

I tried second guessing them on the Willian transfer and they seem to have proven me wrong. Then they went and sowed up the Matic deal which had other teams green with envy. I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I can't see Mata going to United, which is good for us because we'll still have Mata, they won't, and Moyes will keep playing Rooney in the role that he doesn't want and he'll want out in the summer.

If Mata was to be sold in the summer, I'd accept it, But not to any other Premiership team, unless its with United with Rooney going the other way.

I still think the Willian transfer was Roman saying fuck you to AVB, But it looks to be a very good piece of business. Lets hope the Matic deal turns out the same way.

[lionsden 4,689]

Because he can create chances, Score goals and equally adapt into a centre midfield role when the two are under pressure. I feel he can dictate a game better then Juan can, and gives us control in possesion.

Mata has usually played as a narrow winger for us as well, Usually, not just under Jose, when Oscar and Mata have been on the pitch together, Oscar has been in the #10 role.

This is the first time that I have ever being genuinely lost for words on this forum. if you truly believe that then there's no point in debating, that's how outlandish your assertion is. And I'm willing to bet, no one without an agenda or blue tinted glasses would agree with you on that. be it on internet forum, in the media and from neutrals point of view. the most any one would say is that he's more well rounded and fits jose's style better . mata is widely regarded as one of the top 4 no 10's in Europe. the others being Iniesta, Silva and Ozil. I have never seen Oscar's name pop up in such discussions before.

[Shane 2,275]

This is the first time that I have ever being genuinely lost for words on this forum. if you truly believe that then there's no point in debating, that's how outlandish your assertion is. And I'm willing to bet, no one without an agenda or blue tinted glasses would agree with you on that. be it on internet forum, in the media and from neutrals point of view. the most any one would say is that he's more well rounded and fits jose's style better . mata is widely regarded as one of the top 4 no 10's in Europe. the others being Iniesta, Silva and Ozil. I have never seen Oscar's name pop up in such discussions before.

Iniesta plays in a centre midfield partnership with Xavi and Silva plays on the left wing for Man City. Hardly number 10's now are they?

[lionsden 4,689]

Iniesta plays in a centre midfield partnership with Xavi and Silva plays on the left wing for Man City. Hardly number 10's now are they?

So Iniesta is a central midfielder and Silva is a winger now?. sigh

let me indulge you, even if these players aren't no 10's according to you, how does it make oscar a superior playmaker to mata. In terms of statistics and eye test (because some people actually have eyes and can tell who creates more and orchestrate play better) mata completely shits on oscar so I would like to know the criteria you are using. is it just based on your personal opinion or some next level matrix.

[Jase 43,479]

question is, does that 25-50% is something we miss? Not really. We've scored 10 goals in 4 matches in 2014 and we've conceded 1 goal. I wouldn't change a thing about the team because at the end of the day the result is there and I feel we're progressing. Why risk improving our attack by also risking missing our pressing?

It isn't only the defensive contribution he misses, he simply doesn't fit the system. Either he adapts to it or he'll warm the bench for as long as he stays here. Oscar has less to do with that Mata being benched, rather than Mata's inability to fit.

What I meant by that point is this!

My point was simply that we're gonna get a conundrum whichever position we play Mata in right now. Due to this Mourinho's system, we can't play him in the No.10 role because defensively he's not sound and/or fits into what Jose wants even if offensively he can contribute a lot more than others that have played there. Then if we play Mata out wide, his defensive deficiencies - which is not as bad as many are making it to be - may be hidden and made less obvious but we won't get out as much as we could offensively there as compared to in the No.10 role.

People can use the past to say Mata can play out wide and do a good a job there but like it or not, he's just not suited out there. He can still be of use out wide but we'll only get say 50% of the player there compared to 100% in the middle. We have all seen how devastating and/or influential he can be there but don't think any Chelsea fans can deny this. This BS crap about Mata doesn't defend or track back etc at this point is getting really old. He does that now and has improved a lot from previous seasons but he's simply not a player with the same tenacity, aggressiveness, mobility, pacey like the others especially with this pressing approach and Mourinho placing high importance in transitions.

All in all, this whole problem with this is that Mata just simply doesn't suit Mourinho's profile of players of being all-round action type and dynamic to play as one of the attacking trios behind the striker. There is always going to be one problem or another regardless of where we play him in this system.

[Shane 2,275]

So Iniesta is a central midfielder and Silva is a winger then?. sigh

Yes. Iniesta is a central midfielder, he always has been, and probably always will be.

I never called Silva a right winger, I said he plays on the right wing for his club, But hey, What would Martino and Pellegrini know?

How do you make these assumptions about players playing in the #10 role, When in fact, they never play there?

[Jase 43,479]

So he is basically the same level as benayoun on the wings??

Does it really matter though with this comparison?

[The only place to be 11,313]

Because he can create chances, Score goals and equally adapt into a centre midfield role when the two are under pressure. I feel he can dictate a game better then Juan can, and gives us control in possesion.

Absolutely agree. Always felt he could dictate the tempo of a game better than Mata. Juan is better at those individual moments of magic, but I think everyone agrees that Oscar has the potential to produce those more consistently as well don't they??

I can't see Mata going to United, which is good for us because we'll still have Mata, they won't, and Moyes will keep playing Rooney in the role that he doesn't want and he'll want out in the summer.

If Mata was to be sold in the summer, I'd accept it, But not to any other Premiership team, unless its with United with Rooney going the other way.

I don't like the idea of us selling to United either, but I think they need far more than Mata to get back to the top. To me it's a desperation signing. I can probably name 10 players they'd probably want more than Mata who they simply can't get (and I'd include the likes of Pogba, Fabregas, Modric, Vidal, Herrera, Koke etc. who are all deeper midfielders), but they need to sign a 'big name' to appease the fans.

It keeps coming back to PSG making a bid.

mata is widely regarded as one of the top 4 no 10's in Europe. the others being Iniesta, Silva and Ozil. I have never seen Oscar's name pop up in such discussions before.

Oscar would be included in the discussion of potential top number 10s alongside Isco and Gotze.

So Iniesta is a central midfielder and Silva is a winger now?. sigh

let me indulge you, even if these players aren't no 10's according to you, how does it make oscar a superior playmaker to mata. In terms of statistics and eye test (because some people actually have eyes and can tell who creates more and orchestrate play better) mata completely shits on oscar so I would like to know the criteria you are using. is it just based on your personal opinion or some next level matrix.

Oscar to me is better at dictating the tempo of the game. Has been since I first saw him play for Brazil. He'll drop deep and move the ball around whereas Mata is currently more destructive in the final third.

The thing is Oscar is still young. Up until a few months ago people were questioning Hazard's effectiveness but these young guys need time to really fulfil their potential. To me, Oscar has more potential than Mata. I've said that since day one. He is a potential ballon d'or if people care about such things and this is the first season he's been given such responsibility.

But I'll say this - Oscar is capable of being as good, if not better than Mata. Madrid let Ozil go because they believed in Isco, and we're doing the same.

[lionsden 4,689]

Yes. Iniesta is a central midfielder, he always has been, and probably always will be.

I never called Silva a right winger, I said he plays on the right wing for his club, But hey, What would Martino and Pellegrini know?

How do you make these assumptions about players playing in the #10 role, When in fact, they never play there?

False. In Barcelona, Xavi/Toure then later Xavi/Busquets have been their central midfielders with iniesta usually played further up the pitch either in a free role behind the striker or on the left wing where he played through out last season and many games under pep

And in the spanish national team, it's very similar as again their central midfield mainly consist of Xavi/Busquets and Alonso (in euro 2008 it was Xavi,Alonso and senna). stop presenting bullshit as fact. just because iniesta drops deep very often during games doesn't mean he plays in central midfield and is a midfielder.

[Shane 2,275]

let me indulge you, even if these players aren't no 10's according to you, how does it make oscar a superior playmaker to mata. In terms of statistics and eye test (because some people actually have eyes and can tell who creates more and orchestrate play better) mata completely shits on oscar so I would like to know the criteria you are using. is it just based on your personal opinion or some next level matrix.

Jesus christ, I'm not insulting your family. Is Mata your brother or something? Calm down, We're all Chelsea fans having a discussion.

Because in the #10 role, Its important to have a huge attacking influence, but also to keep the team balanced and link the midfield and attack well. You have to be an outlet and collect the ball off the midfielders and distribute it. Oscar does this better the Juan, Mata is brilliant at cutting inside, playing a pass or getting into a goalscoring opportunity and finishing it. Oscar is the one who is able to sit if he needs too, But also able to dominate a game. It's my opinion, and I accept everyone won't agree with it, You should do the same, Just because you believe in something doesn't make it the gospel for everything else.

False. In Barcelona, Xavi/Toure then later Xavi/Busquets have been their central midfielders while iniesta has usually either played further up the pitch either in a free role behind the striker or on the left wing where he played through out last season.

And in the spanish national team, it's very similar as again their central midfield mainly consist of Xavi/Busquets and Alonso (in euro 2008 it was Xavi,Alonso and senna). stop presenting bullshit as fact. just because iniesta drops deep very often during games doesn't mean he plays in central midfield

No, they don't. Toure/Busquets sit deep, Xavi in front, and just a little infront of Xavi, not in the #10 role, Is Iniesta. Barcelona play with Messi in a false nine, which wouldn't give a number 10 much room or space to operate at all. If Barcelona played like you say they do, or even Spain, its Just a 4-2-3-1 then isn't it?

[The only place to be 11,313]

False. In Barcelona, Xavi/Toure then later Xavi/Busquets have been their central midfielders with iniesta usually played further up the pitch either in a free role behind the striker or on the left wing where he played through out last season and many games under pep

And in the spanish national team, it's very similar as again their central midfield mainly consist of Xavi/Busquets and Alonso (in euro 2008 it was Xavi,Alonso and senna). stop presenting bullshit as fact. just because iniesta drops deep very often during games doesn't mean he plays in central midfield and is a midfielder.

Iniesta has never had a free role in the conventional sense. Every player in that team puts in a shift.

In fact he's not a conventional 10 because Messi occupies a lot of the space a 10 normally would. He tends to be a left-sided midfielder in a midfield 3 defensively and in attack he can occupy any position on the left or in the middle. He probably could play as a 10, but Barca don't use him like that in the way someone like Mata was used last season.

Barca are fairly unique in the way they play which is why comparisons with them are tricky. To me though, Iniesta is part of a midfield duo with Xavi with Busquets sitting deeper (but even he can advance into the final third when they're doing that thing where they park up just outside the opposition box).

[lionsden 4,689]

Absolutely agree. Always felt he could dictate the tempo of a game better than Mata. Juan is better at those individual moments of magic, but I think everyone agrees that Oscar has the potential to produce those more consistently as well don't they??

I don't like the idea of us selling to United either, but I think they need far more than Mata to get back to the top. To me it's a desperation signing. I can probably name 10 players they'd probably want more than Mata who they simply can't get (and I'd include the likes of Pogba, Fabregas, Modric, Vidal, Herrera, Koke etc. who are all deeper midfielders), but they need to sign a 'big name' to appease the fans.

It keeps coming back to PSG making a bid.

Oscar would be included in the discussion of potential top number 10s alongside Isco and Gotze.

Oscar to me is better at dictating the tempo of the game. Has been since I first saw him play for Brazil. He'll drop deep and move the ball around whereas Mata is currently more destructive in the final third.

The thing is Oscar is still young. Up until a few months ago people were questioning Hazard's effectiveness but these young guys need time to really fulfil their potential. To me, Oscar has more potential than Mata. I've said that since day one. He is a potential ballon d'or if people care about such things and this is the first season he's been given such responsibility.

But I'll say this - Oscar is capable of being as good, if not better than Mata. Madrid let Ozil go because they believed in Isco, and we're doing the same.

And in my opinion ali dia is superior to maradona and I'm richer than Carlos slim. since you want to base your arguments on opinion rather than facts, statistics and sound reasoning.

So everyone, join me and feel free to make as many outlandish claims and argument as you want as long as you qualify it with "in my opinion".