The English Football Thread

[Vesper 27,302]

Survey results: Support for 23-team Premier League, neutral venues and opt-outs

https://theathletic.com/1806660/2020/05/12/premier-league-restart-survey-23-teams-neutral-venues-and-opt-outs/

Since elite football was suspended in England in March, the game’s authorities have been discussing and debating how and when it can return. After the latest meeting of Premier League clubs yesterday, chief executive Richard Masters said they still hope to complete the season but that the prospect of “curtailment” had been discussed for the first time.

In more than a month of serious, sometimes furious, debate, stakeholders from the clubs to the leagues to the players’ union and everyone in between have floated ideas ranging from declaring the season null and void to completing it as a mini-tournament at St George’s Park.

At The Athletic, we wanted to know what supporters think and so, over the bank holiday weekend, we asked you for your views — and you responded in your thousands.

Among the findings was support for a 23-team Premier League next season if it avoided legal battles, belief that players who opted not to play until a vaccine is discovered should not have their wages reduced, majority support for relaxing the EFL’s financial fair play rules and a close call between settling the league by points per game or declaring it null and void if it cannot be completed.

Here are the full results. Thank you to everyone who took part. Please let us know what you make of the results in the comments.

It feels like a lifetime ago now but the Premier League season was suspended on March 13 after the first-team squads at Chelsea, Everton and Arsenal began self-isolating, with news that Arsenal head coach Mikel Arteta had tested positive for coronavirus seeming to force action.

Before that announcement it had seemed likely that elite football in England was going to carry on for at least another week, with Liverpool’s game against Atletico Madrid in the Champions League going ahead on the Wednesday of that week, the night before it was announced that Arteta had tested positive. Arsenal had been due to visit Brighton & Hove Albion on the Saturday.

The EFL joined the Premier League in initially suspending until April 3 but 50.2 per cent of those who responded to the survey believe that move came too late. Even so, there is a strong belief among respondents that football authorities are right to explore how the game can return — with 85.1 per cent in favour of the talks that the Premier League and EFL have been undertaking to try to plan for a return.

A number of clubs, particularly those in the EFL, believe they will face greater economic consequences if they fail to begin next season than if they fail to finish this one, plus there is an argument that it is better for integrity to begin a new season under conditions — we’ll come to neutral venues — than to complete one. However, much like the official line from the Premier League, respondents to the survey are clear that it is more important to them to complete this season (62.7 per cent) than begin a new one.

That raises the question: how long are you prepared to wait to do so? The Bundesliga is due to return this weekend but Germany’s management of the disease is further ahead than the UK’s. It is understood that the Premier League would like to resume by June 12, which would please most respondents, with almost half of those who answered prepared to wait only a maximum of three months, though almost 15 per cent of respondents say they would wait for more than a year.

What if waiting is not enough? The Athletic has already reported that Leagues One and Two are likely to be decided without the remaining games being played. With all the logistical and legal obstacles in their way, it is possible the same fate could yet meet the Championship and even the Premier League, despite the clear resolve to complete the season.

Of the thousands who responded to this survey, 39 per cent favour the season being decided on a points-per-game basis. In the case of the Premier League, the table would look like this…

This method was criticised in an article here by our analytics expert Tom Worville, who explained why an analytical model of the remaining games would produce a much fairer result, however that proposal garnered only 13 per cent of the vote here, as did freezing the table as it stands, with the second most popular option being to declare the season null and void, meaning no relegation — and no title for Liverpool.

If the Premier League season cannot be completed then, by an almost Brexit-like majority, respondents believe relegation should be enforced and that at least the top two should still be promoted from the Championship. At present, the bottom three in the Premier League are Bournemouth (27 points from 29 games played), Aston Villa (25 from 28) and Norwich City (21 from 29) — though it may not be as simple as that.

The top three in the Championship are Leeds United (71 points), West Bromwich Albion (70) and Fulham (64) — all have played 37 games and Fulham are four points clear of Brentford.

It is worth noting here that this question could have been broken down further and the method of selecting a third team to be promoted explored further but it would appear safe to conclude that the majority believe at least two clubs should be promoted even if the season is not concluded. But the opinion on whether or not relegation should be enforced from the Premier League if the season is not completed is deeply divided.

This is perhaps one of the most surprising results. It speaks to the desire to recognise the efforts of the leading Championship clubs, but also the divide over whether or not it is now fair to relegate those at the bottom of the Premier League.

A majority of those who responded — 52 per cent — said a 23-team Premier League would be a good idea if it avoided legal battles over promotion and relegation.

The Premier League was reduced to 20 teams in 1995 and has remained that way since, with calls coming from the players’ union in recent years to reduce the number of games its members play. An additional six games — in what is already likely to be a cramped season potentially ending in a European Championship for many Premier League players — would likely prove controversial. However, as respondents to the survey indicate, it may be a price worth paying to avoid a court battle involving relegated clubs or those denied promotion.

Staging all remaining games at neutral venues may be the most practical way to complete the season after the most senior police officer in English football told The Athletic that letting teams play this season’s remaining fixtures at home is an “unrealistic demand” that would put “an impracticable burden” on councils and the emergency services.

The Premier League resolved to ask the government on Monday if that guidance could be reconsidered after a significant number of clubs raised concerns. It is felt that losing home advantage for critical games would ruin the integrity of the competition. Last week, the prospect was raised of removing the threat of relegation if the season was completed at neutral venues.

The thousands who responded to The Athletic’s survey delivered a clear verdict on the two issues, with 74.8 per cent in favour of matches being played at neutral venues if it meant completing the Premier League season and 72.6 per cent saying relegation should still be enforced in that eventuality.

Whether or not games are played at neutral venues, it now appears certain that any return would come behind closed doors. One of the great concerns for Premier League clubs is that if they fail to complete the season they could be liable to repay £762 million to broadcasters.

The other significant loss would be if clubs had to pay back season-ticket monies for the remaining games of this season and, possibly, much of the next one. To allay this, it has been proposed that supporters could instead stream matches on a service such as the EFL’s iFollow.

There is tension, however. Can the broadcasters and clubs find a deal that suits them both? The government is also keen for elite sport to return to raise public spirits. That would obviously have more impact if the games were free for all to watch, though that is likely to be given short shrift by the TV companies who have already paid significant sums for exclusive broadcasting rights.

Unsurprisingly, those who responded to the survey were in favour of making the games free to watch (who doesn’t like free stuff?), though a significant number (29.1 per cent) said that they should be shown by those broadcasters who have paid the money.

There is also a clear appetite for the game’s return, with just 14.9 per cent of respondents saying they would watch only their team in any televised behind-closed-doors games.

As The Athletic explored last month, a number of players are scared and even angry at the prospect of being pushed back into action in a contact sport during a pandemic. There is no vaccine for coronavirus at present and yet the elite game in England hopes to restart.

In Spain, Cadiz defender Fali has refused to train due to fears over player safety during the pandemic and there was significant support among respondents to the survey for players who do not want to play before a vaccine is found.

Footballers are often criticised for their high wages, and at one stage were involved in a dispute with the government about wage cuts and deferrals, but 77.2 per cent of respondents said that clubs should accept the position of any player who does not wish to return before a vaccine is found, with 20.8 per cent saying those players should have their pay reduced and only 2 per cent believing they should be sacked.

A significant number of EFL clubs are in a perilous position, with one football finance expert telling The Athletic that it could be “decimated”, and a League One chairman predicting “carnage” in July if there is no further clarity.

It appears increasingly likely the season will be decided without games being completed in the EFL but a slim majority of respondents to this survey (54 per cent) said that promotion and relegation should still be enforced.

There are growing calls for a salary cap to be introduced to help EFL clubs operate on reduced budgets. EFL chairman Rick Parry is in favour, though it is far from unanimous. In our survey, 59.5 per cent of respondents backed a cap, while 72 per cent said financial fair play rules should be relaxed to help clubs who are bracing themselves for significant shortfalls.

Even more extreme ideas have been floated: clubs who are unable to survive a season without crowds could opt out of the league for, say, a season, then return when match-day income returns. It has not yet been put forward as an official proposal but 59 per cent of respondents asked about the idea in The Athletic’s survey were in favour, with 44 per cent saying those clubs should then be allowed to return in the same division.

Please let us know in the comments what you think of the results and whether or not it has changed your mind about how football in England should return. Thank you again to everyone who took part.

[Fulham Broadway 16,390]

Theyre really fucking desperate to restart matches.

The PL were paid £9.2 billion just for TV coverage this season, and if it doesn't restart they have to pay about half of that back. Then theres matchday ticket revenue lost, again, billions.

Looking forward -even if it is restarted in a shambolic way, there is no way Sky, BT or any of the foreign TV companies will pay the same now for next season.

So expect less ridiculous transfer fees and stupid inflated wages. Not a bad thing imo.

[Laylabelle 9,296]

Tackling will be banned, pitches disinfected and players restricted to groups of five when the Premier League starts a first phase of team training.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52635005

[Atomiswave 6,072]

7 hours ago, Laylabelle said:

Tackling will be banned, pitches disinfected and players restricted to groups of five when the Premier League starts a first phase of team training.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52635005

Fucking christ.....why bother at all. We all know its gonna be shit show if they resume.

[chelsea_4_eva 1,140]

Yes football can return, but will it be the kind of football we all know and love...

[Jase 43,479]

9 hours ago, Laylabelle said:

Tackling will be banned, pitches disinfected and players restricted to groups of five when the Premier League starts a first phase of team training.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52635005

Tackling will be banned...yet MORE stupid ideas to try and force an early restart. JFC!

[Atomiswave 6,072]

42 minutes ago, Jason said:

Tackling will be banned...yet MORE stupid ideas to try and force an early restart. JFC!

And they fucking want players to look the other way while making a tackle.......are they so damn inept? That shit will cause lots of injuries.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Atomiswave said:

And they fucking want players to look the other way while making a tackle.......are they so damn inept? That shit will cause lots of injuries.

Saw that too. I really don't know how they can sit there, come up with those ideas and think 'yes, this would work'...like how the hell do you expect players to suddenly look one way while their body is tackling or challenging someone the other way when they will be in the moment, playing with full adrenaline etc?! One doesn't even have to play the game to know that!

[Jase 43,479]

 

[Fulham Broadway 16,390]

40 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

And they fucking want players to look the other way while making a tackle.......are they so damn inept? That shit will cause lots of injuries.

But they know better than us mere mortals….

[MoroccanBlue 5,194]

Points. Per. Game 

[Laylabelle 9,296]

17 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Points. Per. Game 

But they dont want that. They want to get the season finished for some unknown reason. Now theres talks of scrapping the netural grounds and having it done normally. Whyyyyy.

[NikkiCFC 7,578]

1 hour ago, Laylabelle said:

But they dont want that. They want to get the season finished for some unknown reason. Whyyyyy.

Unknown reason? Are you serious? It is most important reason for clubs and FA as well. MONEY! They will lose billions...

In France they did not finished season because they lost only around 250m which is something they can accept.

Like I said even Chelsea would rather finish this season 6th and play games than getting CL place and cancel the season now because we would lose more money.

 

[Tomo 21,681]

On 11/05/2020 at 11:06 AM, Atomiswave said:

I dont get your point. My point is delete the season and start fresh again after summer. Let all this settle down, plan well. To start playing now or very soon will only bring negatives with it.

Any and i mean any way of sorting things out using current placing's is fairer than a void.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

14 hours ago, Jason said:

Saw that too. I really don't know how they can sit there, come up with those ideas and think 'yes, this would work'...like how the hell do you expect players to suddenly look one way while their body is tackling or challenging someone the other way when they will be in the moment, playing with full adrenaline etc?! One doesn't even have to play the game to know that!

Bums

13 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

But they know better than us mere mortals….

Useless is what they are, we hvae known that for many years

12 hours ago, Laylabelle said:

But they dont want that. They want to get the season finished for some unknown reason. Now theres talks of scrapping the netural grounds and having it done normally. Whyyyyy.

Money Money moneyyyy......and a bonus effect built in by giving pool the title. All those super obvious so called errors via var cannot go unrewarded. They did very well for pool this season.

49 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Any and i mean any way of sorting things out using current placing's is fairer than a void.

Yes that works....just ride it out. Where you are now is where you are finishing, in any case we will still get CL footy. This utterly useless model they are spewing about atm will end badly, its a damn guarantee.

[Fulham Broadway 16,390]

Seasons resumption pushed back to 19th June  at the earliest now, if it starts at all

[Laylabelle 9,296]

''Twice weekly coronavirus antibody tests and temperature screening protocols for players and staff - a positive test means the training group self isolates for 14 days''

 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

1 hour ago, Laylabelle said:

''Twice weekly coronavirus antibody tests and temperature screening protocols for players and staff - a positive test means the training group self isolates for 14 days''

 

Bloody hell.....why even start at all. As I said its bound to go badly like this.