The English Football Thread

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

48 hours on after the most one sided cup final ever it was English football in a nutshell. Small provincial club being slaughtered by a mega minted one. English football is going to go the way of Scottish football two clubs dominating the rest and it sticks in the craw to say it but Klopp and Liverpool have done it without spending huge amounts and bringing young players through. 

The irony is not lost on me being a Chelsea fan moaning about Man City but that treble could happen countless times because their only going to get stronger while the rest apart from Liverpool will flounder. Football has lost it's soul it's turning into American Football it's catered for a TV audience while the stadiums are corporate wankholes that have about as much atmosphere as a Dignitas waiting room.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

1 hour ago, Iggy Doonican said:

48 hours on after the most one sided cup final ever it was English football in a nutshell. Small provincial club being slaughtered by a mega minted one. English football is going to go the way of Scottish football two clubs dominating the rest and it sticks in the craw to say it but Klopp and Liverpool have done it without spending huge amounts and bringing young players through. 

The irony is not lost on me being a Chelsea fan moaning about Man City but that treble could happen countless times because their only going to get stronger while the rest apart from Liverpool will flounder. Football has lost it's soul it's turning into American Football it's catered for a TV audience while the stadiums are corporate wankholes that have about as much atmosphere as a Dignitas waiting room.

The huge Money coming in will at some point end EPL......then you have corrupt FA and refs writing the script. Lets see if shitty gets punished by FA and UEFA.

[Vesper 27,283]

Premier League clubs urged to come clean over European Super League

Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City have all been accused of holding secret talks with other European clubs

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-clubs-urged-come-16177152

Super powers have been told to come clean on their involvement on a European Super League which is putting club football in serious “danger.”

Chelsea , Arsenal , Liverpool , Manchester United and Manchester City have been accused of holding secret talks with other European clubs to try and form a lucrative breakaway.

The Premier League clubs have all tried to distance themselves from radical new proposals which would see European games played at weekends, become almost a closed shop and have a potentially devastating effect on domestic leagues.

But La Liga president Javier Tebas, one of the most powerful and outspoken men in European football, insists the clubs still want to press ahead and it is now up to the leagues and UEFA to make sure it does not happen.

snip

[communicate 2,703]

On 5/20/2019 at 3:03 AM, Iggy Doonican said:

 but Klopp and Liverpool have done it without spending huge amounts and bringing young players through. 

 

Youth and not spending? 

Van djik 70 m

Allison 70 m

The only youth player is Trent. 

 

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

54 minutes ago, communicate said:

Youth and not spending? 

Van djik 70 m

Allison 70 m

The only youth player is Trent. 

 

Robertson cost 8m from Hull when he was 23 that's young and cheap to me. 140 million quid for two quality players we've pissed money up the wall on Morata, Drinkwater, Bakayoko, I'm still not convinced with Kepa and Jorginho is woeful that's 250 million quid on shit and average players.

[communicate 2,703]

25 minutes ago, Iggy Doonican said:

Robertson cost 8m from Hull when he was 23 that's young and cheap to me. 140 million quid for two quality players we've pissed money up the wall on Morata, Drinkwater, Bakayoko, I'm still not convinced with Kepa and Jorginho is woeful that's 250 million quid on shit and average players.

Playing an epl experienced player that is 23 like Robertson is easy. It is similar to us using ruben. Plus Roberson only competition is Moreno. It is a myth that klopp is playing youth. 

If you want to praise pool in term of their effective spending. Then I agree with you. They have done fantastic job in finding good players. Us not so much. Kepa signing made sense. We tried Allison but he picked pool. Bakayoko also made sense for Conte. Jorginho also make sense. I think by now you should realize how dire our midfield is in term of ball mover. 

[Vesper 27,283]

48 minutes ago, communicate said:

 It is a myth that klopp is playing youth. 

 Joe Gomez (now 21yo) was a starter since he was 20 (3 starting games, the full 90 minutes in games as a 19yo)

Trent Alexander-Arnold (now 20yo) was a starter at 18 (even had one cup game, v spuds, as a 17yo)

sorry, not a myth

[MoroccanBlue 5,194]

19 minutes ago, Vesper said:

 Joe Gomez (now 21yo) was a starter since he was 20 (3 starting games, the full 90 minutes in games as a 19yo)

Trent Alexander-Arnold (now 20yo) was a starter at 18 (even had one cup game, v spuds, as a 17yo)

sorry, not a myth

The myth is Klopp thought these youngsters were good enough to play ahead of starters. 

Gomez got his chance because Matip and Lovern were injured for an extensive period

TAA got his chance when Clyne was injured for an extensive period. 

Both of which developed and proved themselves for Klopp to realise their potential. 

[Vesper 27,283]

2 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

The myth is Klopp thought these youngsters were good enough to play ahead of starters. 

Gomez got his chance because Matip and Lovern were injured for an extensive period

TAA got his chance when Clyne was injured for an extensive period. 

Both of which developed and proved themselves for Klopp to realise their potential. 

now you are moving the goalposts

not buying it

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

29 minutes ago, Vesper said:

 Joe Gomez (now 21yo) was a starter since he was 20 (3 starting games, the full 90 minutes in games as a 19yo)

Trent Alexander-Arnold (now 20yo) was a starter at 18 (even had one cup game, v spuds, as a 17yo)

sorry, not a myth

Again though Gomez was bought. Alexander Arnold is the only player through the Liverpool academy that Klopp has actually promoted. Likes of Kent and Wilson are out on loan and liable to be sold. Theres no doubting Klopp has developed players but again the same could be said of Pep but other than Foden they weren't academy players. 

Youth in the PL is fucked at most levels.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

1 hour ago, communicate said:

Playing an epl experienced player that is 23 like Robertson is easy. It is similar to us using ruben. Plus Roberson only competition is Moreno. It is a myth that klopp is playing youth. 

If you want to praise pool in term of their effective spending. Then I agree with you. They have done fantastic job in finding good players. Us not so much. Kepa signing made sense. We tried Allison but he picked pool. Bakayoko also made sense for Conte. Jorginho also make sense. I think by now you should realize how dire our midfield is in term of ball mover. 

Comparing Hull to Liverpool is laughable mate he was more or less plucked out of obscurity Robertson to become a world class full back. Doesn't matter if players made sense at the time it's what they go on to achieve I proposed to my missus that made sense at the time !

[MoroccanBlue 5,194]

21 minutes ago, Vesper said:

now you are moving the goalposts

not buying it

Moving goal posts? I never started the argument? 

People go on about how certain managers promote players the way Fergie has. When in reality, these playes are forced to play because the managers hands are tied. 

Gomez and TAA both got their chances and run of games because those senior players were injured for an extensive period. 

[communicate 2,703]

12 minutes ago, Iggy Doonican said:

Comparing Hull to Liverpool is laughable mate he was more or less plucked out of obscurity Robertson to become a world class full back. Doesn't matter if players made sense at the time it's what they go on to achieve I proposed to my missus that made sense at the time !

I don't understand your argument. Nobody is comparing Hull to Liverpool. Robertson is signed as 23 years old with epl experience. He is not youth prospect. It is an even easier decision then when we played Azpi because Roberson has played full season in epl.

But in term of transfer you have to do that. You can't say when Conte want to play double destroyer. Nope you can't we need to you to a ball playing mid. Or when Sarri said thst he want a ball mover you said nope, you have to use bakayoko. Then you can forget about hiring any good manager 

[communicate 2,703]

58 minutes ago, Vesper said:

 Joe Gomez (now 21yo) was a starter since he was 20 (3 starting games, the full 90 minutes in games as a 19yo)

Trent Alexander-Arnold (now 20yo) was a starter at 18 (even had one cup game, v spuds, as a 17yo)

sorry, not a myth

Clyne was injured the whole season or something like that and that force klopp to play Trent and gomez. 

 

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

3 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Moving goal posts? I never started the argument? 

People go on about how certain managers promote players the way Fergie has. When in reality, these playes are forced to play because the managers hands are tied. 

Gomez and TAA both got their chances and run of games because those senior players were injured for an extensive period. 

Its a fair point but also at the same time, the same with more or less every player regardless of age. If a manaher trusts a player theyll use them. Prime examples Callum and Ruben here although they are actual academy graduates where as Gomez was bought from Charlton aged 18 after playing a full season there. For instance: Wan Bissaka arguably the stand out RB in the league this year only made regular appearances due to injuries last season. Raheen Sterling at Liverpool again injuries and lack of recruitment in that area meant Rodgers had to throw him in and deservedly so based on how his careers panned out. Harry Kane only played regularly at Spurs cause Soldado was shite and injured. 

Fair enough as I aluded to beforehand those guys have still improved under Klopp but it is the same with most of their team. PL top teams playing young players is such a rare sight, funnily enough United (Rashford, McTominay, Lingard, Pogba - moved of yes as Fergie didnt trust him but technically still counts 😂) and ourselves (Ruben, Callum and Andreas) used more actual academy players who had been there since under 18 than Liverpool and City although they finished miles ahead of us.

This shows again that the solution isnt always playing youth, which many on here maybe think will make a difference in our league standings. Sometimes having 3 or 4 top top ready made players can make a huge difference.

For me the PL is a poor enivornment for young homegrown players to play regularly though at most clubs, far too easy for teams to buy ready made or young players with 100-150 games experience than play their own youngsters. Scottish league might get slagges but I watch it very regularly and the likes of Lewis Ferguson, Jake Hastie, David Turnbull, Greg Taylor, Karakamo Dembele (be a lot more minutes for him next season after his debut last weekend), Michael Johnstone (again hasnt played a lot but was brilliant last weekend)... while they may have had various amounts of apperances and may never play at a top PL or even mid table PL level will all be the next wave of Scotland internationals playing in the top division of their nation. Sancho going to Germany was merely the first in a long list of youngsters who at these huge clubs will move if they value developing and playing regularly over playing 10 times a season in dead rubber cup games. Especially when the likes of Leipzig, Dortmund, Schalke, Hoffenheim in Germany are actively looking in England.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

7 minutes ago, communicate said:

I don't understand your argument. Nobody is comparing Hull to Liverpool. Robertson is signed as 23 years old with epl experience. He is not youth prospect. It is an even easier decision then when we played Azpi because Roberson has played full season in epl.

But in term of transfer you have to do that. You can't say when Conte want to play double destroyer. Nope you can't we need to you to a ball playing mid. Or when Sarri said thst he want a ball mover you said nope, you have to use bakayoko. Then you can forget about hiring any good manager 

You said you didn't understand my argument no offence son but I don't understand any of this. Anyway in a nutshell I don't give a fuck about Liverpool and have no interest in them or their players so I'll leave it there.

[Vesper 27,283]

23 minutes ago, Iggy Doonican said:

Anyway in a nutshell I don't give a fuck about Liverpool and have no interest in them or their players so I'll leave it there.

[MoroccanBlue 5,194]

More reports stating Pep has agreed to join Juve. 

Hope he does and I hope Conte's Inter gives him a good run for his money. Coward.