Ramires

[Spike 12,049]

Please spiegel, as far as i know, under my guidelines, you know nothing about him under certain contexts, and all that have mentioned things about him have given me no reason to think other wise. Theres too much uneducated generalizing here.

The next thing you know an American will lecture an Australian on how to play Rugby . Also never ever again assume what I do and don't know.

[capriccioso 2,545]

The next thing you know an American will lecture an Australian on how to play Rugby . Also never ever again assume what I do and don't know.

Cricket, you mean. "No, we can't play test cricket with these slow, shit, defensive openers! Let's just clone David Warner 5 times and let him dominate our top order!"

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

Of course he'll stay here. As I said, we are owned by a very generous benefactor who only sells if he doesn't like the player in question (see also: Arjen Robben).

No one can deny that Mourinho loves players in the Ramires mould. He adores hard workers. Mourinho does not merely coach or manage teams - these are such insignificant words when compared to the effect that he has on the very fabric of the club, from the humblest car park attendant to the most elevated muscular lone striker.The intensity and sheer charisma of Mourinho is sufficient to extract more effort and ability from any player than they thought possible. Just imagine what he could do with 4 hardworking midfielders and a muscular lone striker. He has always shown a preference to have just one playmaker and then surround him with workhorses, Deco, Lampard, and Sneijder. He has been forced into playing differently at Real Madrid because of the players he has available to him, and delusional fans thinking it's 1956 and that Barcelona are a nothing club who are awaiting suitable punishment.

Also, please, stop thinking you can take on Barcelona at their own game. There will be scenes of mass hilarity around the Camp Nou if Real Madrid show up with Modric, Alonso and M'Vila in tow as a 3 man possession dominating midfield. Xavi will probably complete 300 passes or something should such an event take place.

At this point we are getting off topic regarding ramires, and i cant care less for him coming to madrid and i have already stated so so lets just end it here, as this is not the thread for it. Go to the madrid thread or just look the other way after the following..

Now again i find you rambling jibberish from your keyboard here. There is no delusional thinking under that context, atleast not from me or the club or the players. Mourinho likes hard working people and has fallen under a certain mold and profile of players but he adapts to the situation and has done so well here. You have still said nothing new, relevant, nothing.

And then the 3rd paragraph, i can understand where that vision of yours comes from, and let me tell you that its wrong, its laughably wrong and this is all. Play at their own game? Open your mind and see the world as it is..no one is trying to out play them at their own game, you are looking at it wrong.

[capriccioso 2,545]

We should move this discussion to Football Banter. I suggest the three of us head here:

http://forum.talkchelsea.net/topic/8222-the-primera-liga-thread/page__pid__447833__st__1188#entry447833

I shall begin the posting by quoting your above post

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

The next thing you know an American will lecture an Australian on how to play Rugby . Also never ever again assume what I do and don't know.

I assume as i please and as i see fit. Your problem not mine.

It's a familiar course as no one can beat me in a logical argument and instead point out to different factors that are just plain malformed, and i have proved it.

[Spike 12,049]

I assume as i please and as i see fit. Your problem not mine.

It's a familiar course as no one can beat me in a logical argument and instead point out to different factors that are just plain malformed, and i have proved it.

I can play your way to.

You assume wrong and you know wrong and I know this because I only use logic and deductive reasoning in my arguement. You fail to point out anything out of the ordinary and the basis of you arguements seem to be composed of petty insults and poor attempts of deconstructing the opposing arguement. You intoduce no new information into you arguements and seem content to just dismiss other opinions because they clash with yours. Notwithstanding is the arrogance and self entitlement present in your posts, if I didn't know any better I would be convinced you were a Liverpool fan in disguise as a Madridista. Overall I give your arguement a C- for effort and an F for overall achievement. Perhaps when you stop insulting my friend Cap, I will engage in a civilised arguement but until then you are not worth my time, you infantile American.

Well, that was fun. It's not everyday that I can just mimick the ramblings of others. This will be the last time I reply to you, for the sake of this topic. I apologise to the staff in advance.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

I can play your way to.

You assume wrong and you know wrong and I know this because I only use logic and deductive reasoning in my arguement. You fail to point out anything out of the ordinary and the basis of you arguements seem to be composed of petty insults and poor attempts of deconstructing the opposing arguement. You intoduce no new information into you arguements and seem content to just dismiss other opinions because they clash with yours. Notwithstanding is the arrogance and self entitlement present in your posts, if I didn't know any better I would be convinced you were a Liverpool fan in disguise as a Madridista. Overall I give your arguement a C- for effort and an F for overall achievement. Perhaps when you stop insulting my friend Cap, I will engage in a civilised arguement but until then you are not worth my time, you infantile American.

Well, that was fun. It's not everyday that I can just mimick the ramblings of others. This will be the last time I reply to you, for the sake of this topic. I apologise to the staff in advance.

That is it, run away as you have no other reason or tools to continue in discussion.

When i read things that are just wrong based on what i know, i respect them, but i attack them and bring them down if i find them wrong, and NOT ONCE, have i been proven wrong in this place and in many others, in real life, everywhere, because i never talk if i dont know what im talking about.

If you see me in that way, then fine, thats just more of your opinion which i cant care less for regarding that topic and context.

I post logical arguments, and win. I thrive in intellectual knowledge, but when i read stuff that is just wrong, i bring it down, and no one can bring it up.

and then THEY LEAVE.

[BlueSunshine 672]

I post logical arguments, and win. I thrive in intellectual knowledge, but when i read stuff that is just wrong, i bring it down, and no one can bring it up.

and then THEY LEAVE.

Take it easy cowboy.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

Take it easy cowboy.

I will indeed buddy, it's just the fact that i turn up the volume and what i call the TMO factor when people come at me aggressively or mal informed, i wont let it slide. Usually it doesnt end pretty for them, and then it creates controversy, but other than my arrogance, i have said nothing wrong that can be proven in ANY WAY wrong, track back and theres your proof.

lets relax.

[Blue Armour 4,158]

Ramires is ahead of three of the 4 you've listed. M'Vila is an FM god and nothing else. Modric is a rich man's Mikel. Yaya is a monster though. Mourinho has always valued energy in midfield over technical ability. Modric, to him, will be nothing but a distraction. He loves packing his teams with guys like Muntari, Mariga from his Inter days, Essien, Geremi from his Chelsea days. He's always been about industry and versatility in midfield. I imagine he see's a glut of playmakers as an aberration that must be destroyed.

Technique is overrated, and Mourinho recognises this. There's no point in buying technically great players because you look over at Barcelona and no matter who you sign they're still laughing at your midfield technical ability. If you want to beat Barcelona, physique is where its at and Ramires has a bigger engine than the 4 of them combined. He's the perfect, typical Mourinho signing. He is far from unnecessary, players who can cover more than 10 km a game and keep it up for months without needing a rest are very rare. Barcelona don't have anyone comparable to Ramires in terms of sheer athleticism. Instead they have wankers like Busquets who play at centre back and have the speed of an oil tanker resulting in quicker players doing this to them:

Stick him alongside a good passer like Alonso and win La Liga. It's that simple. The only problem from Mourinho's perspective is we are Chelsea, not Arsenal or Tottenham or Manchester United, we don't sell our players unless we want to. Real Madrid can offer 80 million pounds for Juan Mata or whatever and our resident Nigerian technical director will instantly put that fax in the recycling bin. That and Roman Abramovich would send him off to his evil mountain lair in Siberia if he ever dared to submit a bid for one of Roman's players

Your ideals of winning by playing 'attractively' (before you jump in saying "I never said that", it is implied by your preference for playmakers vs. athletes) will never come to fruition. Real Madrid will always remain behind Barcelona, until La Masia goes on a drought in producing first teamers, Lionel Messi stops being the best player in the world and Barcelona do not adequately replace their ageing players like Puyol and Xavi. It's highly unlikely that the three factors come to pass simultaneously, for that reason there is absolutely no way Real can play possession football and still beat Barcelona to trophies. And for that reason Real will continue down the Mourinho blueprint of buying engines not footballers. Better get used to supporting 'anti-football' every single Clasico.

Brilliant post in general Cap,..just disagree with the fact that Barcelona can be beaten ONLY by playing ugly.

[capriccioso 2,545]

Brilliant post in general Cap,..just disagree with the fact that Barcelona can be beaten ONLY by playing ugly.

I don't think anyone's had much success, particularly in the Champions League, beating them any other way:

2008 Man United knocked them out by playing defensively.

2009 Chelsea ...'lost'... but still played with a very defensive mindset and only conceded one in 180 minutes.

2010 Inter knocked them out by counter attacking and then defending for their lives.

2012 We knocked them out by defending for our lives.

[francozola 2,040]

Listen children and ladies, this is quite entertaining but it is getting a bit sad.

Im dealing with a handful of narrowminded, fickle, sensitive, lost souls here.

Ramires is irrelevent and to simply state it, id vomit at the idea of madrid bringing someone as unnecessary to bring as him to madrid. There are better options. For chelsea he has been good, but not world class and that is that.

For all those who dont understand, then all you can do is deal with it right?

Javi Martinez

Yaya Toure

Luka Modric

Yaan Mvila

id prefer all of them over ramires.

What the fuck is your problem? This is a CHELSEA FC forum, why are you even here? I didn't mind your posts in the RM thread, I quite enjoyed them tbh but the way you're talking about some of our players is annoying and all your "if RM wants player X we'll get him" bullshit is also agitating. We know Real are one of - if not the biggest club in the world but we don't need to see your posts implying the same thing over and over again.

Again, this is a Chelsea forum, so you'll obviously see some biasness towards our own players. We don't need an outsider to come and criticize our viewpoints every single time.

You said in another post that sometimes you're just trolling us but your constant smileys and "deal with it buddy"s and "my argument is logical and yours is flawed" nonsense is getting on my fucking nerves.

[Blue Armour 4,158]

I don't think anyone's had much success, particularly in the Champions League, beating them any other way:

2008 Man United knocked them out by playing defensively.

2009 Chelsea ...'lost'... but still played with a very defensive mindset and only conceded one in 180 minutes.

2010 Inter knocked them out by counter attacking and then defending for their lives.

2012 We knocked them out by defending for our lives.

Barcelona pre-Guardiola, could be beaten otherwise...during Guardiola's time Arsenal did do it, at least once. Admittedly they were lucky with Barca not making the most of their chances (but that's not unusual is it?) but I'm positive if Arse had a better back 4 they could have done more.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

What the fuck is your problem? This is a CHELSEA FC forum, why are you even here? I didn't mind your posts in the RM thread, I quite enjoyed them tbh but the way you're talking about some of our players is annoying and all your "if RM wants player X we'll get him" bullshit is also agitating. We know Real are one of - if not the biggest club in the world but we don't need to see your posts implying the same thing over and over again.

Again, this is a Chelsea forum, so you'll obviously see some biasness towards our own players. We don't need an outsider to come and criticize our viewpoints every single time.

You said in another post that sometimes you're just trolling us but your constant smileys and "deal with it buddy"s are getting on my fucking nerves.

When i troll i admit it, but this time i have posted logical arguments and have gotten childish and angry replies which have provoked me into having fun with them.

Ive done nothing wrong really, its just the narrow mindedness. You can back track to all my posts and they all make sense. They get ugly and sometimes VERY UGLY when i talk to guys like davidson, orange banana or whatever that guys name is, spieg dudly, i cant even recall their names..point is,i like my own posts but they get ugly because they get controversial with your paradigm and thats undeniable. i understand your point and the real madrid thing might be pushing it, but its not my fault entirely.

Narrow mindedness and inmaturity exists in great amounts in several users here.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

Barcelona pre-Guardiola, could be beaten otherwise...during Guardiola's time Arsenal did do it, at least once. Admittedly they were lucky with Barca not making the most of their chances (but that's not unusual is it?) but I'm positive if Arse had a better back 4 they could have done more.

Barcelona have been un top of every team in the world since guardiola's era.

This year they had a bad year, and madrid a good one, but chelsea got lucky barcelona didnt put in their chances.

[capriccioso 2,545]

I don't know what you mean by narrow minded but I would rather have Ramires than Modric in my team. But then I'm in the "don't sign Hulk leave Ramires on the right wing" camp, which means there may be a place for perhaps M'Vila to serve as a backup for Lampard in centre midfield.

But then we've already got Romeu, McEachran, Meireles and Essien and Malouda (lol) waiting on the bench. 8 players who can play at centre midfield is too many for just 2 positions. 6 is probably a bit too much, as well, but we'll have quite a few extra games next season so I guess we could use the depth. The main argument against signing a new centre midfielder is that Lampard and Mikel, off the back of their recent few months, deserve to be among the first names on the teamsheet. They also work well together, and if we bring in someone expensive then that'll mean either Mikel or Lampard will be undeservingly sent to the bench. There's no need for backups either as we have 8 who can play there and only 2 available positions.

[Blue Armour 4,158]

Barcelona have been un top of every team in the world since guardiola's era.

This year they had a bad year, and madrid a good one, but chelsea got lucky barcelona didnt put in their chances.

Yeah, I suppose what goes around comes around. In 2009, they got past Chelsea despite having only one shot on target.

[Zinedine Iniesco 172]

I don't know what you mean by narrow minded but I would rather have Ramires than Modric in my team. But then I'm in the "don't sign Hulk leave Ramires on the right wing" camp, which means there may be a place for perhaps M'Vila to serve as a backup for Lampard in centre midfield.

But then we've already got Romeu, McEachran, Meireles and Essien (lol) waiting on the bench. 7 players who can play at centre midfield is too many for just 2 positions. 6 is probably a bit too much, as well, but we'll have quite a few extra games next season so I guess we could use the depth. The main argument against signing a new centre midfielder is that Lampard and Mikel, off the back of their recent few months, deserve to be among the first names on the teamsheet. They also work well together, and if we bring in someone expensive then that'll mean either Mikel or Lampard will be undeservingly sent to the bench. There's no need for backups either as we have 7 who can play there and only 2 available positions.

I think that for a club with aspirations to success, you have to think about the big picture.

You are narrow minded when it comes to possibilities. The day i see a team with ramires as its main starting right winger, ill die a little. You need some real packaging going forward.

mcheacran should not play for chelsea this year as far as im concerned, there might be better options, essien is nearing the kind of status where he is dispensable if not already, and meireles certainly is if its nessecary for it to happen to bring in a truly world class midfielder.

Cmon now think about success.