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Jason

closed Man City 2-1 Chelsea

Started by Jason,

Man of the Match   11 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is your Man of the Match?

    • Kepa
      1
    • Azpilicueta
      0
    • Zouma
      0
    • Tomori
      1
    • Emerson
      0
    • Jorginho
      0
    • Kovacic
      2
    • Kante
      7
    • Willian
      0
    • Pulisic
      0
    • Abraham
      0
    • James (sub)
      0
    • Mount (sub)
      0
    • Batshuayi (sub)
      0

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

450 posts in this topic
On 11/12/2019 at 1:15 AM, Jason said:

 

Alonso has played 13 games out of 19 this season and although not all the goals conceded from set pieces are necessarily his fault, the stats don't look great when he's playing compared to when he's not playing.

In the 13 games he played, we conceded 9 goals from those situations (5 free kicks/corners; 3 direct free kicks and 1 penalty) - and if you remember, he made our issues in this situation worse in that home game against Ajax.

In the 6 games he didn't play, we conceded only 3 goals (1 corner, 2 penalties).

I didn't watch our game against Ajax, I also did not watch our game vs Watford. But against Palace. We controlled the game very2 well concede almost nothing but any set pieces worry me. Other than Tammy and zouma, our player simply can't win header.

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No Bernardo Silva for City. Banned for one game and fined 50k for the whole Mendy incident. Not sure what to make of the incident and not aware of the whole story behind the Conguitos character either. 

be a tough match anyway they have got excellent squad depth and attacking players.

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On 11/11/2019 at 5:15 PM, Jason said:

 

Alonso has played 13 games out of 19 this season and although not all the goals conceded from set pieces are necessarily his fault, the stats don't look great when he's playing compared to when he's not playing.

In the 13 games he played, we conceded 9 goals from those situations (5 free kicks/corners; 3 direct free kicks and 1 penalty) - and if you remember, he made our issues in this situation worse in that home game against Ajax.

In the 6 games he didn't play, we conceded only 3 goals (1 corner, 2 penalties).

We are just awful at defending set pieces. Regardless of who plays. It would be like saying Kepa has played every game this season and the stats for lack of clean sheets doesnt look good... when in reality our defending set pieces has been a huge weakness of ours and it wouldnt matter if we had 11 Terry's or 11 Drogba's, if the set ups poor we would still concede. The set play set up is more coaching than anything because there's no way we have made say 5 or 6 individual errors at the set plays weve conceded and even the ones that we havent conceded from. Even more so when you look at the fact that we have used zonal more often than not.

Yes Alonso gave away a penalty v United and whatever but in terms of defending set plays people going after Alonso who is up there with Rudiger and Zouma as probably one of our strongest players in the air, seems a bit moronic. Alonso has been a opinion divider since his 2nd season here but honestly I dont think he has really let us down this season in comparison to his performances last season. 

(Apologies for the 2 posts in a row didnt notice the previous discussions before the last post haha)

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47 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

We are just awful at defending set pieces. Regardless of who plays. It would be like saying Kepa has played every game this season and the stats for lack of clean sheets doesnt look good... when in reality our defending set pieces has been a huge weakness of ours and it wouldnt matter if we had 11 Terry's or 11 Drogba's, if the set ups poor we would still concede. The set play set up is more coaching than anything because there's no way we have made say 5 or 6 individual errors at the set plays weve conceded and even the ones that we havent conceded from. Even more so when you look at the fact that we have used zonal more often than not.

Yes Alonso gave away a penalty v United and whatever but in terms of defending set plays people going after Alonso who is up there with Rudiger and Zouma as probably one of our strongest players in the air, seems a bit moronic. Alonso has been a opinion divider since his 2nd season here but honestly I dont think he has really let us down this season in comparison to his performances last season. 

(Apologies for the 2 posts in a row didnt notice the previous discussions before the last post haha)

It's simply a reply to the notion that we defend set pieces better with Alonso in the XI when the stats don't suggest that. The set up, as you alluded to, is more of the issue rather than the personnel. 

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Its def the setup.......but Alonso sure as hell doesnt add goodies on that.

It will be a tough tough game. We cant go gung ho on them. Set back and be devastating when we break. I would game kante Jorgo and Kova at the same time. We can hurt them.

But I so so fear the fa will do their best not to upset Pep, not after what happened vs pool. You can bet money we will be vs 14 and not 11.

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5 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

No Bernardo Silva for City. Banned for one game and fined 50k for the whole Mendy incident. 

Shame that twat Oliver didn't gave fifth yellow card to Sterling. They would be without both starting wingers :rant:

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Lol Alonso improving us on defending set pieces really cracked me up... He actually provokes those set pieces by committing stupid fouls in and around the area as evident in almost every game he plays. That is why Lamps dropped him as soon as Emerson was fit again. Mind Emerson is not exactly a world class player himself. Still Lamps even took out Alonso at HT vs Ajax because he was so useless and committed stupid errors that led to goals. It is not even that Alonso is a bad footballer. When you see him in training it is obvious how much times he has dedicated to improving his technique and given time and space he can be quite skillful. But mentally and physically he is not made for the Premier League. Italy would probably suit him best. I feel he has not learned anythign in terms of game intelligence, regressed rather and his pace has obviously not got better either. 

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On 11/10/2019 at 9:21 PM, killer1257 said:

Losing against Pool is not a drama. Once we lost in Penalty shootout and one other time we lost due to stupid free Kicks.

One Match we lost was against United in the first match of the season.
Then we lost against United in Caraboa cup where there should have been VAR and we played with a lot of young players like Billy G and Guehi.

We won in Amsterdam 1:0 and drew them home, which both are brilliant results.

And don't forget, we still have injuries or had a lot of injuries

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the only two losses that make me smash my head (in other words games we should have won and actually lost, not drew, and against worse teams) are the 4 nil pasting at OT, and then that bloody Valencia CL game at the Bridge

in terms of pure frustration, the Super Cup and blowing the 2 goal lead at home v Sheff U (drawing with them would not have been so bad if we had fought back or only had a one goal lead, as they have turned out (amazingly so far) to be a solid EPL team) were the 2 worst for me once the games started

finally I would add (weirdest game in years) that Ajax game WAS frustrating as we did not end up winning after we got them down to 9 men, but just coming back to draw was crazy

fucking Manure is becoming our bogey team yet again, so frustrating as they are shit atm (Martial coming back has saved their arse lately, they really are fucked without him)

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On 11/15/2019 at 11:14 PM, Magic Lamps said:

Lol Alonso improving us on defending set pieces really cracked me up... He actually provokes those set pieces by committing stupid fouls in and around the area as evident in almost every game he plays. That is why Lamps dropped him as soon as Emerson was fit again. Mind Emerson is not exactly a world class player himself. Still Lamps even took out Alonso at HT vs Ajax because he was so useless and committed stupid errors that led to goals. It is not even that Alonso is a bad footballer. When you see him in training it is obvious how much times he has dedicated to improving his technique and given time and space he can be quite skillful. But mentally and physically he is not made for the Premier League. Italy would probably suit him best. I feel he has not learned anythign in terms of game intelligence, regressed rather and his pace has obviously not got better either. 

so much this!!!

my dog do we need Chilwell (and yes, he is not tall like Alonso, but is streets ahead in most every other department)

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Our lack of being able to deal with set pieces or high balls is down to a) Kepa and b ) neither Zouma nor Tomori are CB's that are able to organise the defensive line.

For me, Kepa is the real issue as our problems with this directly correlate with his arrival. Now people can argue about coaching but I find it hard to believe that two coaching teams have failed to recognise that Kepa stays on his line and does not controll his box (and particualrly his six yard area.) This for me is a massive issue and something that TC never got credit for because if you do this as a keeper you stop a lot of attacks early, which means it goes unnoticed. Whether Kepa can actually improve on this is up for question as I believe that a big reason for it is because he is only 6"1'. The only reason in my book he has not got more flak is because he is very agile and a good shot stopper which means he pulls off some great showreel saves which everyone remembers.

To further compound Kepa's weakness is that of all our CB's Rudi is the only one that can organise the back line and he has been injured all season. I know a lot of people are fans of Tomori and Zouma but the problem with those two are that both are what I class a CB2/covering defenders (think Riccy C/Gallas) and not CB1's like JT and Cahill who can marshall the defense. Therefore, until Rudi is back I do not see any improvement as AC also does not seem like a player that can organise, which consequently means we are defending as individuals and not as a team. This is also why I think Zouma will lose his place and possibly be sold as we have three CB's who are CB2's and only one injury prone CB1 (although AC could end up being sold instead.) 

Either way, until Kepa learns to controll his box (or is replaced) and Rudi returns I do not see how we improve defending set pieces/balls into the box as the tactics seem ok as we are not actually conceeding that many chances but rather we are conceeding too many in relation to the chances that are created.

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On 15/11/2019 at 11:14 PM, Magic Lamps said:

Lol Alonso improving us on defending set pieces really cracked me up...

Exactly, people are acting like height is the issue here but if you look at our goals conceded after set pieces non come because of that. 

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8 hours ago, The Skipper said:

 

Not buying it sorry. Nonsensical and lazy analysis from Jose, read between the lines. He's not saying it in a genuine way imo. He obviously doesn't agree/understand the whole youth movement to begin. He's talking about Chelsea as if we're the complete team already and aren't lacking in quality and experience which is ridiculous in my opinion. Nobody expected Chelsea to be ahead of City at this stage of the season, some even had us scrapping for top 10. This sort of analysis from Jose sounds like jealousy/he's been proven wrong because he didn't believe in the youth when he was here, so he needs to scrutinize them in this veiled way which on the surface seems like fair criticism but let's be honest, it's bitter from him. Fake constructive criticism.

Let's actually keep it in context and look at all of our big games this season so far. We've played United, Liverpool (Super Cup), Leicester, Liverpool, United (League Cup), Ajax away and Ajax home. Let's just summarise these to see whether we've done bad in big games so far given our expectations. 

1. United away, first game of the season. 4-0 scoreline flatters United big time. Lampard's first game in the PL, individual mistakes severely punished but overall we definitely looked like the side with more potential (which has held true so far this season). Nobody too surprised about this result. Tactically naive and missing lots of players. 

2. Super Cup final. Against the best in Europe, matched them completely and we were arguably the better team overall. Lost on penalties. Already a huge improvement in a big game but again undone by some individual mistakes. Tactically pretty much spot on. 

3. Leicester are the second best team in the league atm and have been outstanding. A game we had under control but a lapse in concentration caused a goal to be conceded (set piece yet again mind you). Tactically pretty spot on again imo. 

4. Liverpool in the PL. Again undone by a set piece and some individual mistakes. However showcased a good framework tactically and didn't embarrass ourselves against the champions of Europe. 

5. United League cup - put out somewhat of a B team and again essentially beaten by a wonder set piece goal. Not really important imo. 

6. Ajax away and home. Superb win at the JCA, superb comeback at the Bridge. Glossed over by Jose as we're now suddenly expected to dismantle CL semi finalists. 

The point is that we've steadily been improving in big games and have put in some very promising performances. SFL has set his ambitions on creating an attacking team, a team that doesn't shelve it's whole identity in big games, something Jose fundamentally disagrees with as he's naturally a short term thinking, defensive coach. Jose doesn't do long term processes and to him it's about winning now rather than building something over the years like Klopp and Pep have. It's why he's been left behind in today's game. His criticism seems to be about Lampard's tactics when it's experience and quality that we're lacking. Overall we've been good tactically in big games. He's talking as if Chelsea should be beating all big teams this season which is far from the case. This is why I find his criticism disingenuous.  

Im still on the fence regarding these comments as some of it I'd say is spot on and some of it ie the comments after United game, is a bit off. I have really enjoyed him and Keane on Sky because they are straight up and arent biased compared to Neville and Carragher who make it a United and Liverpool love in every game. Even if they arent fucking playing 😂

The whole youth thing will be reflecting poorly on Jose and Conte for definite. If the whole buzz around us playing the academy players is going to affect his judgement, which I dont think it will, then he shouldn't be a manager or a pundit. Hes left us a few times and weve done right enough and even at United when he went they improved for a while, I doubt that has affected his judgement or opinion on taking or not taking jobs or particularly bothered him at any level. I mean he managed us and ended up at United so if the whole buzz around our youth playing is affecting him then I will be really surprised. 

He said in a game of that dimension you need more and as youve said the teams not the finished article but Jose being Jose, I think hes talking about it from what he would expect. He mentioned the gaps between the midfield and defence not being right IIRC which was spot on as well as our press consisting of 4 players going and the rest of the team not going, which again was fair and spot on. 

I do agree with you regarding the whole tactics and experience thing, it is experience but you cant get experience as a kid if your not playing. I do still think the game v Liverpool in the supercup is the best of our big game performances this season. Theres still plenty to work on. Set pieces are horrific still.

The Leicester game I think we were lucky we didnt lose because if Maddisons final ball was better theyd have won the game 100%. It was controlled to a point but the gaps were huge, Leicester just seemed to find it easy to get at the back line. I think if we sat a bit deeper, it would of suited us better because they'd have to pick us off and we would be a threat on the counter.

Again though he is learning and he has been tweaking set piece defending etc to no avail because we still look ropey defending them. Franks a flexible manager, hes still very much learning as well so this teams trajectory can only go up as will his stock as a manager. I think he has exceeded expectations so far as youve mentioned were above City, have played better without making any signings etc but we still have plenty to do.

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bottom line for me

Mou cannot be truly blamed as our academy product was shit compared to what is now, it was NOT from a lack of playing time

dozens have moved on and been dregs when they did get loads of PT

we just finally have gotten a pure gold class of several years

and I see more in the pipeline atm

Conor Gallagher may make all my ranting about DMF superfluous

Ugbo may end up a decent CF

Trevoh Chalabah looks like he might be a baller

Clarke-Salter (probably sold though) and Ampadu have big potential

 

and then there is (especially Anjorin, Guehi, Maatsen, and then, even younger, Ashley Akpan (looks a BEAST so far) and Jude Soonsup-Bell, a CF)

 

 

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bottom line for me
Mou cannot be truly blamed as our academy product was shit compared to what is now, it was NOT from a lack of playing time
dozens have moved on and been dregs when they did get loads of PT
we just finally have gotten a pure gold class of several years
and I see more in the pipeline atm
Conor Gallagher may make all my ranting about DMF superfluous
Ugbo may end up a decent CF
Trevoh Chalabah looks like he might be a baller
Clarke-Salter (probably sold though) and Ampadu have big potential
 
and then there is (especially Anjorin, Guehi, Maatsen, and then, even younger, Ashley Akpan (looks a BEAST so far) and Jude Soonsup-Bell, a CF)
 
 
About Mou. Mou really fucked up RLCs developtment and he fucked up Ake.Ake back than was ready to play first Team. Ake can play DM,LB and CB. He would have been the perfect squad player. But no, without ever seeing Ake on the Training pitch, he put him to the reserves. Benitez saw Ake's potential and that is why he gave him a Chance and Ake gave good Performances.

So, we had always potential. Boga is still the best dribbler I have seen in my days as a Fan of our Youth Team. He also did not get a Chance, even after a good pre season. Yes, he was Injury prone and he sometimes dribbled too much and lost the ball. The last thing is something you can work on.

Mou has zero knowledge about integrating Youth players. Lamps seems to be a master in that regard.Finally a coach that sees potential. I have been sick for years about these Youth Hater Coaches like Sarri and Mou. That is why I lost my passion for Youth Football

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