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Jason

Super Frank Thread

Started by Jason,

421 posts in this topic
9 hours ago, Jason said:

It didn't help that the 3rd goal went in so soon after the 2nd. Lampard made the changes just before the 60th minute (IIRC) but we suddenly found ourselves 3-0 down out of nowhere and everything just went flat after that. That's where keeping things tight could have been beneficial. 

that 3rd goal was indeed the kill-shot :(

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On 8/12/2019 at 1:45 PM, Jason said:

It didn't help that the 3rd goal went in so soon after the 2nd. Lampard made the changes just before the 60th minute (IIRC) but we suddenly found ourselves 3-0 down out of nowhere and everything just went flat after that. That's where keeping things tight could have been beneficial. 

That’s actually the main argument for starting the best players even if they are not 100% and then deal with the subs as needed.

start with the most senior players to avoid situations like that. Then add youngsters for minutes and for mixing things up.

no, nothing is a sure thing, but things are more likely to happen with the senior players since they already happened for them before. For ex, giroud is more likely to score at this level than a youngster who never scored at this level. Giroud would have been more likely to have scored that sitter. Tammy lowered his head and hit it. not great technique tbh. All these small decisions are likely to have influenced in the outcome and the final score line. 

No one wants a return of of the lack of youth development from mourinho era, but imo nobody forced frank to use so many youngsters in a single match, against a top club in their turf. Agree or disagree, that was a questionable decision, and one which did not quite work.

another thing I can add is that it is a very common tale with overly young sides: they have the impetus, the work rate, sometimes even play well and look good, but lack the finishing touch and make too many small mistakes that hinder the team. And they are usually more likely to choke under stress, of say, having to chase a result after conceding early. Again, for obvious reasons... I mean it should be obvious.

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11 hours ago, Robchels said:

That’s actually the main argument for starting the best players even if they are not 100% and then deal with the subs as needed.

start with the most senior players to avoid situations like that. Then add youngsters for minutes and for mixing things up.

no, nothing is a sure thing, but things are more likely to happen with the senior players since they already happened for them before. For ex, giroud is more likely to score at this level than a youngster who never scored at this level. Giroud would have been more likely to have scored that sitter. Tammy lowered his head and hit it. not great technique tbh. All these small decisions are likely to have influenced in the outcome and the final score line. 

No one wants a return of of the lack of youth development from mourinho era, but imo nobody forced frank to use so many youngsters in a single match, against a top club in their turf. Agree or disagree, that was a questionable decision, and one which did not quite work.

another thing I can add is that it is a very common tale with overly young sides: they have the impetus, the work rate, sometimes even play well and look good, but lack the finishing touch and make too many small mistakes that hinder the team. And they are usually more likely to choke under stress, of say, having to chase a result after conceding early. Again, for obvious reasons... I mean it should be obvious.

Not really sure where the argument we used so many youngster's is coming from.

We used two, United used one (yes AWB cost a bomb but he's still quite young and inexperienced) and actually their overall starting lineup was younger (although Azpi and Pedro likely shot our average age up).

There's many reasons we lost 4-0 on Sunday but starting Mount and Tammy wasn't one of them.

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I thought we played some really nice stuff, and I know it don't mean anything about the result but we came out tops on the stats, possession, shots, shots on target, etc.

I really don't know what some of you are expecting, the knockers and doubters, yeah alright we got hammered, but ffs it was the first game of the season, Jose got hammered 5-0 with Real against Barca in his early games didn't stop him winning La Liga

So for fuck sake get off the blokes back and get on the real supporters wagon and support the guy and the team, i'm fed up reading what will happen if results continue like this, dah dedah dedah.

For you that are doom and gloom, enjoy the ride and leave Lamps alone, oh and that cunt Sutton can keep his mouth shut he knows fuck all about Lamps or CFC 'cos he was shit here anyway.

That's it there I've said. rant over.

In Lamps we trust.

KTBFFH

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People are still hyper-analysing even the most microscopic of minutiae with the United game - the simple fact is our finishing was woeful and we were extraordinarily unfortunate. We were superb for the first 60 minutes, with United scoring two fortuitious goals down to lapses in concentration. But for more clinical finishing, we could and should have scored three or more on Sunday. Conceding two goals in two minutes is enough to knock any team, from that point on we allowed our heads to drop and from then on it was a case of how ever many United really wanted to score. Even their fourth goal was a mammoth deflection. 

It was one game; to some extent a free hit for Frank in getting one of our biggest away games of the season out of the way. It was never a 4-0 game - there is precious little between the two teams. The concern for me is our striking options are absolutely terrible. No disrespect to Tammy, but the step up from the Championship is huge, at Villa he was being given the chance to be their main striker whereas he will be perpetually rotated this season. I like Michy but is he a 20-goals-per-season striker? Nope. Giroud is never going to be a massive goal-getter, though I like his link-up play and for that reason I'd play him in the majority of the "big" games from this point onwards. 

One game doesn't make or break a season, let's move on.  I don't know how many of you heard Klopp's press conference yesterday, but he was very complimentary of our team and actually of our performance on Sunday, he called it a false result and expects us to challenge for the top four again. He has no need to blow smoke up Lampard's backside, and he is one of the few managers that generally speaks with integrity. 

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6 minutes ago, BlueLion. said:

People are still hyper-analysing even the most microscopic of minutiae with the United game - the simple fact is our finishing was woeful and we were extraordinarily unfortunate. We were superb for the first 60 minutes, with United scoring two fortuitious goals down to lapses in concentration. But for more clinical finishing, we could and should have scored three or more on Sunday. Conceding two goals in two minutes is enough to knock any team, from that point on we allowed our heads to drop and from then on it was a case of how ever many United really wanted to score. Even their fourth goal was a mammoth deflection. 

It was one game; to some extent a free hit for Frank in getting one of our biggest away games of the season out of the way. It was never a 4-0 game - there is precious little between the two teams. The concern for me is our striking options are absolutely terrible. No disrespect to Tammy, but the step up from the Championship is huge, at Villa he was being given the chance to be their main striker whereas he will be perpetually rotated this season. I like Michy but is he a 20-goals-per-season striker? Nope. Giroud is never going to be a massive goal-getter, though I like his link-up play and for that reason I'd play him in the majority of the "big" games from this point onwards. 

One game doesn't make or break a season, let's move on.  I don't know how many of you heard Klopp's press conference yesterday, but he was very complimentary of our team and actually of our performance on Sunday, he called it a false result and expects us to challenge for the top four again. He has no need to blow smoke up Lampard's backside, and he is one of the few managers that generally speaks with integrity. 

Thing is i actually think Michy could be a 20 a season striker. The problem that comes with Michy isn't goals it's the fact that his overall game (both technically and tactically) further than 10 yards from goal is so unbelievably bad that 20 or even 30 goal season can't make up for those flaws.

The Norwich replay under Conte in the FA Cup summed him up in a nutshell, scored a well taken goal but was also the reason we couldn't sustain any attacking momentum.

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1 minute ago, Tomo said:

Thing is i actually think Michy could be a 20 a season striker. The problem that comes with Michy isn't goals it's the fact that his overall game (both technically and tactically) further than 10 yards from goal is so unbelievably bad that 20 or even 30 goal season can't make up for those flaws.

The Norwich replay under Conte in the FA Cup summed him up in a nutshell, scored a well taken goal but was also the reason we couldn't sustain any attacking momentum.

He can't possibly be a 20 goals a season striker with our current squad and style of play. Stick him in City's team and he'd easily do that, because they play with genuine width and stretch the pitch, creating crossing opportunities. We don't play that way, so whilst I accept he has the talent to be a goal-getter, he won't do it at Chelsea. I just wish he'd be given a fair chance because I feel like we're all judging him on a string of substitute performances. The odd game where he started (I'm thinking Brighton away, 2017/18 where we won 4-0 - he didn't score but was the best player on the pitch), he looked fine. 

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I see lots of similarities between Lampard's appointment and that of Glenn Hoddle in the early 90's. 1993/94 is one of the earliest seasons that I still can remember and Glenn was a very risky appointment at the time as he only had one year at Swindon and (whether it was having played abroad) had a much different view on tactics and style compared to most English managers at the time.

We opened ourselves up to play in an expansive manner (with some pretty average footballers at the club) and it took a lot of time and patience to get used to what he wanted (if I remember rightly we were second bottom at Xmas only above Swindon who had one of the worst Premier League seasons on record) but we improved significantly in the second half of the season to finish a respectable mid table and our run to the FA Cup final.

From then on we had Gullit and Mark Hughes, and from then on the early influx of 'next level' foreign players - Lebouef, Di Matteo, Petrescu, Vialli, Zola. Those foundations which pushed the club to the next level were built by Glenn Hoddle and he doesn't really get the credit for it because he left before any real success had taken place.and 

The Lampard appointment is similar. The money in the Premier League now makes it much more difficult to bully the market like we once did and the size of our stadium against our rivals similarly puts us at a financial disadvantage. Developing our own players for our first team is more vital than ever, but it needs someone willing to take that risk to put those foundations in place which Lampard seems prepared to do.

It will be a huge learning curve this season for the young players, for Lampard and for us fans who have probably gotten used to the immediate success and impatient nature of the club in the last 15 years. But football is cyclical and rather than trying to short term fix to catch up with Liverpool and City, a longer term plan needs to take place. City won't have Guardiola forever and they weren't nearly as dominant before he came in, whilst Liverpool are at their peak as a result of a long term plan that is now reaping rewards.

I do truly believe that a couple of steps backwards over the next couple of months, or even the season will lead to greater steps forward for us in the future.

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42 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I still can remember and Glenn was a very risky appointment at the time as he only had one year at Swindon

He wasn't a risk at all it was actually seen as a quite astute appointment. When you think of who came before him David Webb was a stop gap and had only managed Southend previously. Ian Porterfield's previous managerial role was at Reading where he was sacked. Bobby Campbell was out of work before he became manager (he did a decent job under the circs) and before him that absolute prick John Hollins who was a player coach who then contrived to get us relegated despite having internationals like Dixon, Durie, Nevin, Dorigo etc.

 

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17264374-0-image-a-5_1565775152375.jpg

The kids Chelsea will call on: With Frank Lampard vowing to stick by his young guns, here's the EIGHT academy talents lined up with a chance to help turn the Blues' shaky start to the season around

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7353339/The-kids-Chelsea-call-Frank-Lampards-eight-academy-talents-line-team-action.html

The Lampard babes  - Class 2019 :)

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47 minutes ago, Costa19 said:

Big game for Frank.. Another humiliating loss and pressure will be immense. 

I really dont want us to become a punching bag under Frank. Hope he can deliver today.

look stop this negative bullshit.

we are on a learning curve, do you really understand what the situation is atm, we are work in progress.

first let's see if he can sort out the defence, all that's going on is not going to happen overnight, we are probably going to wait until next season and Frankie can bring in the players he want's.

atm we've just got to make do with what we've got.

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27 minutes ago, Iggy Doonican said:

He wasn't a risk at all it was actually seen as a quite astute appointment. When you think of who came before him David Webb was a stop gap and had only managed Southend previously. Ian Porterfield's previous managerial role was at Reading where he was sacked. Bobby Campbell was out of work before he became manager (he did a decent job under the circs) and before him that absolute prick John Hollins who was a player coach who then contrived to get us relegated despite having internationals like Dixon, Durie, Nevin, Dorigo etc.

When you look at what came before him I agree it would be hard to argue and my dad has said that some of the football during this period was abysmal, but his methods were very much 'continental' driven and probably ahead of their time, certainly within the confines of the English game. Such a drastic change from what may be considered the norm will be a risk initially and there was proof of this by how much we struggled in the first months. Chelsea had been in the First Division/Premier League for 3 or 4 years by this point so we had began to establish ourselves in the league. Many clubs in recent years have gone down a route from simply staying in the league to looking to evolve the club with a bigger name or different style of play to then see it backfire and they get relegated.

The club continued to persevere however because there was progress being made even if that wasn't reflected in the results. Hoddle gets a lot of respect and appreciation from older Chelsea fans who recognise the importance of his appointment in the overall growth and evolution of the club (something I believe within the media Gullit gets the more credit in this era when Hoddle laid the foundations for him and later Vialli to achieve success).

I would just like to think (and hope) that the appointment of Lampard will show a similar trend. I think the culture shift at the club to placing a lot of faith in younger, inexperienced players will take time and results/consistency will suffer initially but it will overall benefit the club in the long term, even beyond Lampard's tenure at the club.

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look stop this negative bullshit.
we are on a learning curve, do you really understand what the situation is atm, we are work in progress.
first let's see if he can sort out the defence, all that's going on is not going to happen overnight, we are probably going to wait until next season and Frankie can bring in the players he want's.
atm we've just got to make do with what we've got.
Would there in principle be a situation this season where frank deserves criticism?

Let's say we lose 5-0 tonight. All the same problems from Sunday happen and we are just as naive as when we went 2-0 down.

Would that be dismissed as part of the learning curve? Or can we say ' you know what, for the players confidence right now it's important not to get hammered.'

I'm not saying we will get smashed, but whilst one half of the forum (including me) are strongly pessimistic. The other half can't seem to handle frank getting criticised. Even when managers should be.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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2 hours ago, bigbluewillie said:

look stop this negative bullshit.

we are on a learning curve, do you really understand what the situation is atm, we are work in progress.

first let's see if he can sort out the defence, all that's going on is not going to happen overnight, we are probably going to wait until next season and Frankie can bring in the players he want's.

atm we've just got to make do with what we've got.

Yeah just what i wrote. Another humiliating loss (4-0, 5-0 etc) will show that he might be incapable of doing so. We have had this problems since the very start of the pre season. 
Look, i love Frank. I really want him to succeed here! But we cant be happy with getting steamrolled only because we are "learning" and playing with "high energy".. 

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