Super Frank Thread

[Superblue 6,331]

22 minutes ago, Mana said:

Yes I can blame for taking the job? It's like Ole at United, I'm pretty sure Ole when he was signing that contract, he knew he's punching above his weight with that useless coaching staff behind him...but hey! This is my only chance to manage United, as I'll be found out eventually!!!

If Lampard turned down the job, I would had understand, so would many fans and that would even put more pressure on the board. Because if a legend of the club, turns his dream job down it shows how woeful our board is. But nope, he wanted to become a shield to them. He came in with one year experience.

Imagine me working for a year in a small e-commerce company, just missed out on my sales targets then Amazon came along and put me in charge of running Amazon because "I am friends with everybody there". You'll be thinking WTF?

But you know what? You're right. I even said what you said a month ago. This is good (and selfish) for Lampard. He has "Chelsea FC" in his CV now.  When he gets sacked, clubs like Palace will look in to him and hire him. This is why I'm pissed off that Chelsea FC has become a work experience club.

I took on a job very early in my career that I wasn't qualified or experienced for and knew it too, but I talked myself into an opportunity and I backed myself to work hard, continue to learn and develop and if it didn't work out at least I'd have no regrets that I didn't try to push and maximise myself. Making that decision was the best thing I could have done and gave me the platform and experience to become fully qualified in what I do by the age of 21 and my own business by my mid 20's that has given me far more flexibility around my kids.

For me that all boils down to mentality. Hiding behind a lack of experience or qualifications for not pushing yourself and going as far as you can is no excuse. How much do you really want something and believe in something, or is there just an excuse for a 'get out' because there is always an excuse for everything in life; You'll always find one.

Lampard will have known he lacked the experience but clearly would back himself to take such a daunting job full on, and when that opportunity has been offered he's a fool to turn it down.

Lampard has probably identified that although he was taking us over in pretty dire straits, United and Arsenal were also both a shadow of what they once were also and if he could get through this first year intact and be given a summer to rebuild the squad properly with some of his own signings then things could really kick on from there. And despite all the negativity at present, we're still very much in the hunt for the top 4 and could well get it. Everybody wrote last season off around Feb/March and we finished 3rd.

[Vesper 27,281]

14 hours ago, killer1257 said:

I don't know what Matches you have seen, but referee fucked the match up. Winning when the referees are against you, is nearly Impossible

Gesendet von meinem SM-G920F mit Tapatalk
 

both can be true

the game was literally stolen, but so many others were not

if Lamps loses the next 5 games, he needs to be sacked

maybe the next 4

and three of the four are against Spuds, Bayern, and Liverpool

Bournemouth away and Everton at home (the 5th game) are the others

all but Bournemouth are home games as well

[Vesper 27,281]

14 hours ago, Mana said:

Sidenote: Costa only has 7 goals for Atletico in 42 appearances.   That guy has dipped tremendously.

I'm sorry but Lampard has to go. I want him gone by the end of the season. He won't be sacked until then, but I thought we genuinely had a chance of grabbing that top 4. 

Our miserable defeat to the worst United side ever, them beating us at the Bridge for the first time in PL history sealed the deal of us not getting that top 4.

that was the first EPL loss ever v Manure for us at the Bridge?

[killer1257 3,282]

1 minute ago, Vesper said:

both can be true

the game was literally stolen, but so many others were not

if Lamps loses the next 5 games, he needs to be sacked

maybe the next 4

and three of the four are against Spuds, Bayern, and Liverpool

Bournemouth away and Everton at home (the 5th game) are the others

all but Bournemouth are home games as well

Sacking Lamps will solve nothing.Only new players will solve the problem. You even said yourself that you cannot make Zouma or Willian world class. If the referees did their job right, we would have won yesterday and the story would be completely different now.

[killer1257 3,282]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

Honestly dude, if Pep is our coach right now...while we may have lost to Ole, he will NOT lose to him three times in a row like that. Pep will bench Willian and may look at the U-21 squad for replacements if needed to be. Pep would have played Giroud or bring an U-21 player for yesterday's match against United.

People have forgotten Pep is an actual coach himself, he's not just a manager like Mourinho. Pep is ruthless. If the current players aren't up to the task with his coaching, they're gone from the starting XI. Even Aguero once got benched. Bravo was an expectation. Azpi, Willian, Pedro, Bats and Alonso would never see daylight in our starting line up outside domestic cup games.

This is another reason why I'm disappointed with Lampard as well. He likes to keep his ex-teammates happy like Willian and Azpi, while selling off Lamptey. He doesn't bring up the U-21s who are not worse than certain players.

Enough with the comparisons to say "it's ok that Lampard is doing shite at the moment!" There is NO good comparison to this at the moment.

I highly doubt that Pep would bench Willian. Willian sadly is our second best winger this season and that shows how bad we are. We lost one time when referees were against us big time yesterday. In FA Cup, we played with a B-Team and I remember they gave Man United a penalty and from what I remember, that was not a penalty. We only lost one match against them fair and square and that was the first match of the season, where Lamps had couple of weeks to prepare the team.If you judge a coach by that, that is your opinion. I try to see the bigger picture.

Pep and U-21? You know that Pep said that you win nothing with youth team players just this season when people asked him about Phil Foden. Yes, Pep would have probably played Giroud. We would have lost yesterday regardless if Giroud started or not. You think that Giroud would have scored three goals yesterday? I don´t. You think that Giroud would have assisted Willian three goals yesterday? I don´t think so.

I love Lamptey, but James and Azpi were the end of Lampteys career at Chelsea. Azpi was sadly made our new captain, leader, legend last season and Lamps lets him play. I am pretty sure Pep would let him play too, because Azpi is one of the only few leaders in that team. Pep would bench James for Azpi as a RB and Emerson would play LB. Azpi would play of his captainship anyway. It is sad.

In my opinion, Anjorin should start for Mount and Broja should be ahead of Batsman. Tammy being my first striker, second Giroud and third striker Broja. 

I watch our youth team when I have some time left and from my point of view, only Anjorin and Broja are ready. Maybe also Billy G, but that is it.

[Superblue 6,331]

3 minutes ago, Mana said:

Bleh, 2nd ever EPL defeat. There's that 2012 one that I forgot.

Definitely more than that. We lost one year 3-0 at home under Ranieri too, think it was 2001 because it was the same year we battered them 3-0 at Old Trafford and they did the reverse on us later in the season.

[!Hazard! 3,394]

It's February and Chelsea fans want the manager gone. What else is new

[Vesper 27,281]

11 minutes ago, Mana said:

Bleh, 2nd ever EPL defeat. There's that 2012 one that I forgot.

thanks! I was too lazy to look it up, lololol

[Ayioros 76]

Lampard deserves to stay at least a second season with propers players whatever the end of the season.

When I see this Chelsea team played I’m bitter sweet.
Sweet because we play good football, attractive, attacking. I find our football is more interesting under Lampard than under Sarri.
Under Sarri its was always the same, it was just boring to watch. We had possesion ok but we made side pass and side pass during the majority of the match.
And Bitter because we have an evident lack of quality on our front line and some defensive correction to make.

We lost our best player who give us 50% of our goals last season and without the possibilité to replace him.
We play with some players that a lot of football fans didn’t knew 6 month ago (Abraham, Mount, Reece, Tomori).
So its dissapointing if we fail in view of our good start but in the end it’s not a surprise.

I’m sur with Ziyech,, a good left back, a proper nine, and an other attractive Winger (Sancho or this kind) we should do an incredible season next year.
We will be fool to sack Lampard, this club really need to learn from the past.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Im fuming FL was so dull after the game, he should have had the balls to mention and tear those refs a new one. THis shit cant continue.

FL is a legend and will always remain so, but as a manager he is simply not astute enough. Anyday of the week I rather have a class manager than a class squad. An average manager can make a quality team look stale.

FL aint the answer sadly, nor the staff, and it looks like he is overworking the players hence all the injuries. Tactically very naive, lineups all but bonkers. Still can be cut so easily, still cant defend, set-pieces almost always gives our opponent a free goal. The structure out of balance bare a couple of games, no organization. Playing the wrong players time after time. It came too soon for him its simple......and FUCK THE BOARD, its totally on them we are in such a mess. RA better either do something about it or just fucking sell already.

[Special Juan 27,092]

Rumor has it that FL and Jody Morris are still sat in the dug-out

[Fernando 6,374]

13 hours ago, Henrique said:

Lets be honest, late February, the team is a mess on the pitch.

Players who were not even making the bench out of nowhere are selected to start games. Players who were in good form are benched for no good reason. Players in bad form start game after game.

Forget Lampard the player. Lampard the player is a living legend. Lampard the manager is easily  the worst manager of Roman Abramovich era. Today's result is irrelevant, and VAR was a disgrace but Lampard got it wrong both in tactics and team selection.

2 most used arguments to back Lampard are:

1- The  team didn't sign anyone and the squad is not good enough, so Lampard is overachieving. 

2- Guardiola and Klopp also had terrible first seasons when both were hired by City and Liverpool

Lets check this arguments:

1- The number argument is probably the most used, and the one that makes mad!! For one simple reason: Spurs, United and Arsenal also have limited squads and they didn't make any big signings in past 2 transfer windows, and when a say "big signings" I'm not talking about the amount of money, but the quality. Arsenal biggest signing was David Luiz, and United biggest signing was Maguire. But lets forget about "big six teams". Right now Leicester is 9 points clear, and Sheffield is only 2 points behind. But of course, @Fernando will probably suggest Leicester have a much better squad and that Sheffield have better players.

2- If you want to bring Klopp and Guardiola first seasons in Premier League into discussion, feel free, but I don't see the point of comparison since Lampard previous managerial experience is: a single season as Derby County manager in Championship where he finished 6th in regular season !! Again, Lampard previous managerial experience is a single season as Derby County manager in Championship where he finished in 6th in regular season. Both Guardiola and Klopp were already considered one of the best managers you one team could hire.

There is no much point in continuing this discussion, because who believe Lampard is the right man just want to bring things to support their point of view despite the evidences. Pochettino is free in the market, and Nuno Espirito Santo and Brendan Rodgers are just better managers than Lampard. 

If Lampard indeed become a great manager in the future I will be the first to admit I was wrong, but I don't think thats the case here. Yes, the team is 4th right now and might end in 4th, but I will use an argument people used a lot in this forum to support managers: "you can't always look at results". Even if the team finish inside top 4 I don't expect great things from Lampard next seasons, because the team played a good football for like 10% of the season. Even when the team is winning there are a lot of problems there, like team conceding silly goals or almost throwing easy victories. I think there few games this season where we could say "wow, what a performance". 

Next season is set to be a wasted season if he still is the manager by the started of 20/21 season.

So your using leicester excuse of being in front of us as a barometer? 

Then Nuno is behind Chelsea, Poch never won a tittle and his team was behind us this season. 

We can play like that, I think it's foolish to look at it. Context plays a key and the context here is that Lampard has done better then I thought. 

My initial outcome for the season was between 7th and 10th. We are still fourth and we are playing youth. So Lampard for me has done way better then what I expected of this season and that after losing hazard and no transfer for the whole season. 

[killer1257 3,282]

9 minutes ago, Mana said:

Oh, he most certainly would drop Willian. Willian is only our second best winger this season because nobody else has been given a chance.

The referees isn't the only reason why we lost the game yesterday, stop going on about that.

B-team, A-team, C-team, Z-team, this is another excuse. To be honest, I don't care much about that game but a loss is still a loss regardless on what cup it was. And it's not like the pen was the winning goal.

The 4-0 defeat is the only game that I can say "Well, first game - at least we created a lot of chances and that was more down to the players, not Lampard."

I agree with Pep. You won't win nothing with youth team players. But we are not fighting for the title, are we? This is about top 4. When we start getting class, experienced players with some youth, only then we can start thinking of winning titles.

As I said before, losing yesterday is not the reason why I'm pissed off. The main reason is because it's 4 wins in 15+ games. If Pep lost to United with us yesterday but our form is better than it is now, I'll be frustrated and rant at the refs and VAR, but I will not be waking up next morning still angry with what's going on.

Pep would have dropped Azpi like he dropped Joe Hart when he was the main captain for City. Azpi isn't a leader, so it's simple to drop him. Just because he has a big mouth on the pitch doesn't mean he is leading.

No fan will shout at Pep for dropping Azpi really. He's not that good.

Bring them up.

Lamps played Pedro, CHO, Willian and Pulisic, so all of the wingers were given a chance. Pedro is not in his prime anymore, so he is not better than Willian. He used to be better than him.CHO is getting better in recent weeks, but still not better than Willian. Only Pulisic is better than him and he is injured.I don´t see a youth team winger that is ready for that.

Pep would not do any better with this team. He underperforms big time with City this season.

[Superblue 6,331]

30 minutes ago, Mana said:

Look, I totally understand where you are coming from. Lampard taking this job is a massive step in his coaching career. And if he did this for any other top club (bar Spuds), I'll be happy for him. It's just that it has to happen to Chelsea FC. The club is in a shambles, and I'm just not happy he chose us to be that stepping stone for his career. Because what we are seeing, is what you get when you combine rookies from top to bottom.

I don't have a hatred for Lampard. I want him gone, but if he proves to become a fantastic coach in the future, no doubt he'll be back here (and I would want him back here). But he sadly picked one of the worst times in Chelsea to take this job.

I understand your stance on it but if the club wasn't in this state, the job wouldn't have been there for Lampard this summer. He benefited from the club being in a position of difficulty. And like I mentioned before, he could have waited but that offer may never come round again, you can't ever expect it to.

And whilst you can claim Lampard is selfish for taking the job on, I don't think what he's tried to do this season has been selfish because he's tried bringing through a number of younger players on mass and trying to develop a more progressive style of football. We could see the teething problems this would create last season with Sarri, and that was with one of the best attacking players in the world in our team. 

I still stand by my opinion that, whether Lampard is here long term, the younger players will all be better for and as a result of this season and have all been tied down long term to the club which looked very unlikely before Lampard came in this summer. In a transitional year where we couldn't improve the squad through the transfer market and lost our best player, it is a big long term positive that can be taken and we hopefully can look back 3 or 4 years from now and appreciate the difficulties we're suffering now was worth it.

[Jase 43,479]

11 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I still stand by my opinion that, whether Lampard is here long term, the younger players will all be better for and as a result of this season and have all been tied down long term to the club which looked very unlikely before Lampard came in this summer. In a transitional year where we couldn't improve the squad through the transfer market and lost our best player, it is a big long term positive that can be taken and we hopefully can look back 3 or 4 years from now and appreciate the difficulties we're suffering now was worth it.

The club may have tied the young players down to long term contracts but the next manager can easily toss them aside if they deem them not good enough. 

[Superblue 6,331]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

The club may have tied the young players down to long term contracts but the next manager can easily toss them aside if they deem them not good enough. 

And at the very least the club will get millions in transfer fees for some of these players. 

However I think now though some are getting established within the Chelsea squad and even internationally, they'll have much more chance here even without Lampard.

The most difficult thing was always going to be breaking in and getting those opportunities initially. The culture of the club has largely prevented this for years with regular managerial changes, who are coming in with very much a short term view on the club rather than building for the long term which is usually at the expense of giving some of these younger players a chance. 

The biggest case in point of this is Loftus Cheek who should have been given chances way before last season under Mourinho and then Conte.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

30 minutes ago, Jason said:

The club may have tied the young players down to long term contracts but the next manager can easily toss them aside if they deem them not good enough. 

If there was no transfer ban Lampard wouldn't have been hired and the new manager would have loaned out Tammy, Mount and Tomori. If Lampard gets sacked or leaves definite chance they'll go back out on loan or even sold in a couple of seasons.

[Vesper 27,281]

15 hours ago, ZaynChelsea said:

I‘m afraid if we stick to Lampard we could turn into Arsenal

you have to include the board with that

they are also, in fact even more, to blame

incredibly poor player buys/sales/non-buys/non-sales, shameful contractual management, and a complete lack of general direction for years upon years now

IF we renew Willian and Pedro and do not offload both Alonso and Emerson this can no longer be debated by anyone who is operating in good faith