closed Fulham 1-2 Chelsea

[ulsterchelsea 3,213]

Not much to look at but needed that win after the spurs v gooners result. 

[robsblubot 3,205]

20 hours ago, Tomo said:

I would go as far as saying LB is our number 1 priority this summer.

He was certainly quicker to get forward and offer the overlap compared to Alonso which helped speed things up at times but his decision making going forward in possession wasn't any better and his defending was worse than anything i have ever seen from Marcos, a couple of times attacks were coming down our left and he wasn't even near the LB area.

Not sure the #1, since we will be losing important players and unless RLC delivers, I don't see who is going to be scoring from midfield. Not even mentioning the striker situation, since Higuain is on loan....
However, since we are discussing FBs, the RB options too need improving. We can't have Azpi playing every match every season... there is a reason the manager does not rotate in certain positions. Fans tend to cling to the "grass is always greener" idea, but most of the time, the manager and all his/club's staff aren't quacks.

[coolhead23 1,146]

11 hours ago, Muzchap said:

Liverpool and Spurs also moaning about lack of Plan B 👍imagine City do too. It's not a problem exclusive to us 😁

Mate, I dont care about others ... I have high expectation from my club so I honestly dont give a damn abt them. 

Since you bought it up, at the moment both the teams looks like they are better organized than us ... on the field and off the field. 

[coolhead23 1,146]

10 hours ago, Unionjack said:

Ohhh Believe me bud so am I!!

... makes 2 of us then ... 

10 hours ago, Unionjack said:

I am still up for a complete overhaul of the players and the club from top to bottom.

But the old saying of 'You can't make a silk purse from a pigs ear' is meant for us under Sarri.

Not that the player we have are totally shite but they are a mishmash of a team put together by our previous managers to suit THEIR particular, more defense orientated, style.

You cant expect them to fully adapt to a totally different type of football system and manager with a forward posession based thinking.

He needs to be given a different kind of player. More offense minded.

Apart from us needing to upgrade several of the lads Sarri needs to change and adapt to the PL also.

We have seen this season that the system Sarri playe HAS worked. We just need to back it fully and give him the right tools to do the job.

If then he did fuck up and somehow Roman wasn't happy we would at least have a group of players of a good quality for the next manager to use.

I understand the need of having A set of players to execute the plan for the manager. However I said before as well, we are broken at several levels in terms of communications or anything else .. be it the owner to the board to the manager to the players to backroom staff ... it is seems chaos.

We went for a new manager and Sarri ONLY requests for Jorginho & Higauin in the 2 windows? which is fulfilled by the board. And then board acquires a new player which Sarri is sort of clueless. Sends out different messages, right. From whats happening between the board and the gaffer Sarri doesnt want any more quality players to be added, can we say that he is fine with the set of players he has?  I believe 3-4 months is a long time to understand who's in and who's not. 

Moving to Sarri ... Adaptability is the key when you come in the PL and everyone suffers if you dont adapt ... seen with most and if you fail to adapt your gone, case & point: Morata. And now it seems the same with Sarri! We were good in the first half and then everyone figured out the chink in the armor which has made us vulnerable. If Sarri doesnt adapt he wouldnt even last the season.  

Players: Yes as you pointed out rightly, they need to adapt to the Manager of the day but they dont (I'm assuming) because they know it is the manager's job on the line rather than their. The club has already set up a precedence of repeatedly sacking the gaffer. And this time we have reach the level where the players are saying "No". 

So I feel even if we get an overhaul of players under the same manager, under the same board ... we MITE (a big one) do good one season but we will be back to where we are next season again. I would love to have Roman as the owner because he has done a lot but unfortunately if we need to have high ambitions which what it was after Roman's takeover ... it is time for a complete change, from the owner to the board to the manager to the players.  

 

P.S. After I wrote the essay, I read your poster again and seems that I have voiced your thoughts with a little change. So I agree with U

[robsblubot 3,205]

55 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

... makes 2 of us then ... 

I understand the need of having A set of players to execute the plan for the manager. However I said before as well, we are broken at several levels in terms of communications or anything else .. be it the owner to the board to the manager to the players to backroom staff ... it is seems chaos.

We went for a new manager and Sarri ONLY requests for Jorginho & Higauin in the 2 windows? which is fulfilled by the board. And then board acquires a new player which Sarri is sort of clueless. Sends out different messages, right. From whats happening between the board and the gaffer Sarri doesnt want any more quality players to be added, can we say that he is fine with the set of players he has?  I believe 3-4 months is a long time to understand who's in and who's not. 

Moving to Sarri ... Adaptability is the key when you come in the PL and everyone suffers if you dont adapt ... seen with most and if you fail to adapt your gone, case & point: Morata. And now it seems the same with Sarri! We were good in the first half and then everyone figured out the chink in the armor which has made us vulnerable. If Sarri doesnt adapt he wouldnt even last the season.  

Players: Yes as you pointed out rightly, they need to adapt to the Manager of the day but they dont (I'm assuming) because they know it is the manager's job on the line rather than their. The club has already set up a precedence of repeatedly sacking the gaffer. And this time we have reach the level where the players are saying "No". 

So I feel even if we get an overhaul of players under the same manager, under the same board ... we MITE (a big one) do good one season but we will be back to where we are next season again. I would love to have Roman as the owner because he has done a lot but unfortunately if we need to have high ambitions which what it was after Roman's takeover ... it is time for a complete change, from the owner to the board to the manager to the players.  

 

P.S. After I wrote the essay, I read your poster again and seems that I have voiced your thoughts with a little change. So I agree with U

Sarri was specifically hired to make Chelsea play in a more modern attacking way. If he “adapts” to the pl and the players at his disposal he will be sacked, so he might as well do what he was hired to do.

both guardiola and Klopp did not adapt and rather just implemented their systems. Went through several players and tweaks, but in the end they’ve delivered, if not wins in Europe, at least the quality of play.

I never thought sarri was at that level, and hardly think the club does. My thinking is that the club must know sarri to be part of a transition state, in which the club will change, even if an unsuccessful one. The next manager will get more adequate players ready to implement a more modern game of possession. 

[communicate 2,703]

19 hours ago, Unionjack said:

Hard to please bruv!

But game of 2 halves really. Started good. Clean sharp,quick passing. I thought even Willian and Ede released the ball quicker than they normally do. But we were cream crackered in the 2nd half. We dropped back which de motivates the forwards IMO. We either buy into keeping the high line and the high pressing completely or it won;t work.

We also have to give Fulham some reps. We knew they were going to be a bunch of honey badgers fighting for their PL lives. Specially trying to show their new boss they still had pride. BUT at the same time they are 2nd from bottom. We should be killing teams like this.

I expected Emerson to have played better given his start and wanting to show he could do it. We need to look at this for the next season. Not happy with either LB. TBH I thoght all the defense looked a bit shakey. Rudi too. Expected more from both him and AC. AC needs to get some balls and man up cause hes getting knocked about.. Should give Ampadu some time tho hes smaller.

Jorgi had a very good game. Organizing play, good passes and the goal was well taken. It will do his confidence a world of good.. Getting a good partnership going with Higs. Specially putting balls over the top to him.

Higs had some Morata type chances but took the goal well. Will only get better. Was strange to hear how much Lineker liked him.

I know how hard it is to do it. Seeing hes our best player, we are fighting for top 4 etc but Eden shouldn't have played IMO. He didn't give us much and looked out of it. MAYBE he was feeling the knock v Spuds? But it was the perfect time to bench him for CHO. This is one thing I wish Sarri would do more/ Tho Eden wasn;t at his best what I do think was helpful was how Fulham had 2/3 players on him. He drew them like a magnet for that pass to Jorgi. So in that respect he was handy.

Pedro coming on for Eden SEEMED logical but he was of no use at all. At his age it was obvious after the running he did and his work rate v Spuds he was going to need a rest. I dont know what CHO has to do to get time. Who knows? Maybe Kiev?

Very disappointed in Barkles. His passes are very poor. RLC now hes recovered should be the starter. He was at least trying to do summet after he came on. Only plus side I see for Barkles is hes HG.Thats something we need to look at and not just players like Green.

But the main thing in the end was we took 3 points from a hard local derby after a bad splell and playing some big games.

I'm happy.

I thought jorginho looked quite poor. Maybe he was tired because he lost some battle that he usually pretty good at. 

Agree with Hazard. He need a break. CHO is definitely an option but I think Sarri will only play Cho when he is sure that we are going to be on top most of the time. 

RLC problem is simple, he has plenty of injury this season. I much rather he play sparingly, pushing him to start can ruin his career. 

[coolhead23 1,146]

6 minutes ago, Robchels said:

Sarri was specifically hired to make Chelsea play in a more modern attacking way. If he “adapts” to the pl and the players at his disposal he will be sacked, so he might as well do what he was hired to do.

both guardiola and Klopp did not adapt and rather just implemented their systems. Went through several players and tweaks, but in the end they’ve delivered, if not wins in Europe, at least the quality of play.

I never thought sarri was at that level, and hardly think the club does. My thinking is that the club must know sarri to be part of a transition state, in which the club will change, even if an unsuccessful one. The next manager will get more adequate players ready to implement a more modern game of possession. 

Adapting to the league doesnt mean to change your style of play but to adjust to the environment and use it to your benefits. If you recollect, Pep came in with his ideology and it didnt work in the first go ... but then he changed & adapted to the league ... He then "tweaked" like u mentioned and today he plays with his system because he understood what is needed and what is not. Same with Klopp who just wanted to keep going with his sub standard players ... eventually he started tweaking to adjust to the league. Thats the key. ...

Sarri is still adamant to keep going with his preconceived plans. Hence I keep saying he has to have a plan B which doesnt mean go defensive. We cant keep doing the same thing again and again trying to achieve results. 

 

[Unionjack 7,531]

Just now, communicate said:

I thought jorginho looked quite poor. Maybe he was tired because he lost some battle that he usually pretty good at. 

Agree with Hazard. He need a break. CHO is definitely an option but I think Sarri will only play Cho when he is sure that we are going to be on top most of the time. 

RLC problem is simple, he has plenty of injury this season. I much rather he play sparingly, pushing him to start can ruin his career. 

Really can't agree with Jorgi mate. Thought he was good.

I want Sarri to stay but I just dont agree with him on CHO. I know he hasn't proved anything yet but theres been many times I'd have put him on or played him over Willian.

RLCs problem is far from simple. Hes not shown much when hes not been injured. He needs to either step up or ship out. How many chances does he need? Hes not a kid any more we can keep blaming it on that.

[communicate 2,703]

Just now, Unionjack said:

Really can't agree with Jorgi mate. Thought he was good.

I want Sarri to stay but I just dont agree with him on CHO. I know he hasn't proved anything yet but theres been many times I'd have put him on or played him over Willian.

RLCs problem is far from simple. Hes not shown much when hes not been injured. He needs to either step up or ship out. How many chances does he need? Hes not a kid any more we can keep blaming it on that.

CHO will have problem dislodging Willian this season. I am being honest. There is only one spot for winger in our team across from Hazard. Hazard defensively is quite poor so the other winger has to be excellent defensively. 

For me he has plenty of injury problem this season. I much rather to play him more next season after he has proper rest if not I am afraid he will get injured again. This is pretty common theme with player who has injury fest. 

[Unionjack 7,531]

8 minutes ago, communicate said:

For me he has plenty of injury problem this season. I much rather to play him more next season after he has proper rest if not I am afraid he will get injured again. This is pretty common theme with player who has injury fest. 

Well our schedule and pressure will only get harder not easier, If we have to wrap him in cotton wool maybe he should play in a softer league?

 

I do understand the logic behind CHO not playing but I dont agree theres not been times he couldn't/shouldn't have played. Even as sub.

[robsblubot 3,205]

17 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

Adapting to the league doesnt mean to change your style of play but to adjust to the environment and use it to your benefits. If you recollect, Pep came in with his ideology and it didnt work in the first go ... but then he changed & adapted to the league ... He then "tweaked" like u mentioned and today he plays with his system because he understood what is needed and what is not. Same with Klopp who just wanted to keep going with his sub standard players ... eventually he started tweaking to adjust to the league. Thats the key. ...

Sarri is still adamant to keep going with his preconceived plans. Hence I keep saying he has to have a plan B which doesnt mean go defensive. We cant keep doing the same thing again and again trying to achieve results. 

 

That's not how I see it. Guardiola implemented the very same style of play he's always used (possession-based). It just took time to teach the players and the club how to do it. And the players who did not learn were replaced, and better ones arrived. Same with klopp who went through several batches of players, before forming a good group.

I'm far from a Sarri admirer - never though Napoli was all that. However, asking for a plan b at this time is premature. He was hired to implement his style of play, with his preconceived notions. I cannot imagine the club was expecting that Sarri was going to do better than Guardiola and Klopp in their first seasons, esp with a squad as lacking in strength in depth as ours is.

[communicate 2,703]

6 hours ago, Unionjack said:

Well our schedule and pressure will only get harder not easier, If we have to wrap him in cotton wool maybe he should play in a softer league?

 

I do understand the logic behind CHO not playing but I dont agree theres not been times he couldn't/shouldn't have played. Even as sub.

This season? Yes. I don't like forcing player to play when he has injury riddled season. They tend to get injured again. RLC is still young, it is better for him to play little this season get 100% healthy and be ready for next season. 

Sometime I agree that Sarri should have played Cho more but not as much as most people in this forum think. 

[communicate 2,703]

7 hours ago, coolhead23 said:

Adapting to the league doesnt mean to change your style of play but to adjust to the environment and use it to your benefits. If you recollect, Pep came in with his ideology and it didnt work in the first go ... but then he changed & adapted to the league ... He then "tweaked" like u mentioned and today he plays with his system because he understood what is needed and what is not. Same with Klopp who just wanted to keep going with his sub standard players ... eventually he started tweaking to adjust to the league. Thats the key. ...

Sarri is still adamant to keep going with his preconceived plans. Hence I keep saying he has to have a plan B which doesnt mean go defensive. We cant keep doing the same thing again and again trying to achieve results. 

 

How pep adapt? 

He did not adapt. The biggest difference is they have better FB and GK last season. I didn't see much difference other than that. For me city comparison is useless. Pep inherit a very good squad and added better player on top of it. This is not an attack on pep because pep is a fantastic manager, but squad wise City has the best squad in the league. 

[Unionjack 7,531]

2 minutes ago, communicate said:

This season? Yes. I don't like forcing player to play when he has injury riddled season. They tend to get injured again. RLC is still young, it is better for him to play little this season get 100% healthy and be ready for next season. 

Sometime I agree that Sarri should have played Cho more but not as much as most people in this forum think. 

The guy is 23 now. Hes not some young kid.

I'm not for starting CHO every game but you will never convince me there has bot been games when we could have started him over either Eden/Willian/Pedro and or given him far more playing time than he has had.

Its about getting a balance

 IN GENERAL  I'm more inclined to play experience over yoof. We need some strong experience in the team but we do need to start looking at younger players.

We are in the position where we have several older players. Its a good opportunity to lower our average age,

Get a group of lads that could be together as a team for awhile

Out with the old. In with the new.

 

[coolhead23 1,146]

49 minutes ago, communicate said:

How pep adapt? 

He did not adapt. The biggest difference is they have better FB and GK last season. I didn't see much difference other than that. For me city comparison is useless. Pep inherit a very good squad and added better player on top of it. This is not an attack on pep because pep is a fantastic manager, but squad wise City has the best squad in the league. 

When Pep started at City, he started with his typical tiki-taka which was his template at Barca & Bayern. All his plan started going south by the middle of the season ... thats when he must have realized that his template is not working. And post that you will see changes or tweaks in the system ... like wingers not cutting in early, DM started to stay in deep to slow the pace from the opposition & to provide more stability, no over pressing, I think he also let go of the high line during that time ... these are the few I noticed ... This tweaks gave him & players more confidence because they started coming back and by the next season he knew who could fit his system. Even today if u see he keeps tweaking his plans every few months so that there is something for the opposition to think about. 

We cant just keep saying the manager have acquired the best squad ... they have built it over a period of time under different manager & the current manager keeps adding to it more importantly removing the deadwood. 

[NikkiCFC 7,566]

Pep was clueless in his first season.  Yes he changed many formations but every time they looked even worse. He even played with three at the back. Then he gets 3 new full backs in the summer,  Bernardo etc and everything changed. I'm sure Sarri will get a lot of hate if he tries something similar like Pep this season. We are still learning his football and that's why it's essential to persist with 4-3-3. It's on board now to support him in the summer and demand title next season. 

[communicate 2,703]

10 hours ago, coolhead23 said:

When Pep started at City, he started with his typical tiki-taka which was his template at Barca & Bayern. All his plan started going south by the middle of the season ... thats when he must have realized that his template is not working. And post that you will see changes or tweaks in the system ... like wingers not cutting in early, DM started to stay in deep to slow the pace from the opposition & to provide more stability, no over pressing, I think he also let go of the high line during that time ... these are the few I noticed ... This tweaks gave him & players more confidence because they started coming back and by the next season he knew who could fit his system. Even today if u see he keeps tweaking his plans every few months so that there is something for the opposition to think about. 

We cant just keep saying the manager have acquired the best squad ... they have built it over a period of time under different manager & the current manager keeps adding to it more importantly removing the deadwood. 

I didn't follow city that much but maybe you are right because I didn't see much changes. 

Nah, that is wrong way to look at it especially for city. Let's see how city make signing under pep. He want a cb, let's sign one of the best young ball playing cb in Laporte. He wanted fb, let sign the best lb in mendy and sign Kyle walker. Plus we sign Danilo as backup. We need another winger, let sign Bernardo silva and mahrez when you have sterling and sane. 

Do you think we can do that? Absolutely not. We need a lb, we signed Emerson. We needed a rb we signed zappacosta. 

 

[coolhead23 1,146]

2 hours ago, communicate said:

I didn't follow city that much but maybe you are right because I didn't see much changes. 

I didnt follow them too but it's always fun to analyse when a top manager or players comes in and pretty much everyone is hell bent on doing what they had done previously. More over it was Pep for whom we were ready to give anything to join us ... I always thought that he would struggle here but wanted to see how he can adjust. 

 

2 hours ago, communicate said:

Nah, that is wrong way to look at it especially for city. Let's see how city make signing under pep. He want a cb, let's sign one of the best young ball playing cb in Laporte. He wanted fb, let sign the best lb in mendy and sign Kyle walker. Plus we sign Danilo as backup. We need another winger, let sign Bernardo silva and mahrez when you have sterling and sane. 

Do you think we can do that? Absolutely not. We need a lb, we signed Emerson. We needed a rb we signed zappacosta.

We cant ... your right ... I already mentioned it above that currently all the other top 5 teams are better organised (on and off field) than Chelsea is. We dont have a vision or a plan, it all broken at so many levels. 

City has a similar vision which we had when we started out under Roman and I feel our vision has sort of died down post winning the Champions league as if that was the one and only for the club. Currently City are bang on everything, they want to be world beaters and they are taking everyone together towards that goal.