closed Arsenal 2-0 Chelsea

[Unionjack 7,531]

IF ONLY!!

 

 

[Vesper 27,282]

1 hour ago, Stats said:

To put this into perspective, Klopp finished 8th in his first season. Only took till this season to finally get a new keep and the January transfer window to buy a top CB, despite fans banging on at him. But, look what he is doing now. We have to accept we will be frustrated by him choices, but we have to back him and realise it is a project we have to be patient with. Look at Guardiola at City. That took a while to come to fruition. 

Klopp had a club on the rise and a board that backed him

we have a club in decline, ageing, huge players probably soon gone, a truly shit board, and an owner in massive crisis

[Laylabelle 9,292]

2 hours ago, Stats said:

To put this into perspective, Klopp finished 8th in his first season. Only took till this season to finally get a new keep and the January transfer window to buy a top CB, despite fans banging on at him. But, look what he is doing now. We have to accept we will be frustrated by him choices, but we have to back him and realise it is a project we have to be patient with. Look at Guardiola at City. That took a while to come to fruition. 

Thing is we know what the board is like. Crap at completing deals. Plus patience is something I doubt we'll see. Haven't so far for any managers. I hope he can turn this season around somehow but if keeps playing the same lot week in week out. Won't happen. 

I wouldn't have minded a season in Europa again but we've been up there for so long and now due to odd performances and whatever else. Looking over our shoulder. 3 points is nothing. 

[Muzchap 8,964]

2 hours ago, Mana said:

That isn’t really a level headed opinion. It’s more of a Sarri defence post if any. He did not criticise the manager for his poor selection and formation yesterday and we are supposed to brush it off because there’s could be no replacement.

If we have a mishmash of GOOD players that’s one thing but we don’t. Alonso and Willian are very bad players. Yet he continue to use them over dynamic players of CHO and Emerson who desperately need PL experience for them to improve.

Your argument on continuity will be invalid when United go above us. It’s only a matter of time.

You know why Pep and Klopp are still in those clubs for all those years? Because each season, they saw progress. Klopp’s first season doesn’t count as he had been brought in clearing up Rodgers’ mess mid-season...and even THEN Klopp tried to use all available players including youths to implement.

As for Pep’s 1st? Claudio Bravo was a failure. Pep had problems with Yaya. But City still came 3rd, an improvement from their previous season, CL secured.

Sarri’s 1st season so far with us is bleak. The first 5-7 games in charge was all well and good, and everything fall apart after that Spuds game. We haven’t recovered since in all honesty, now he is trying out this awful false nine formation that rarely worked.

I am against giving a manager three years if there’s little to no progress. EL for like 3 seasons in a row? Playing ball with PAOK and Vidi? If Sarri secures 4th (or wins the EL), yes give him another season otherwise...nope. Not for me. Not with his stale tactics and keeping the lovechilds.

The season isn't over yet.

We desperately need a striker - I don't care what you say about Liverpool or City, but they have always had decent strikers. We haven't. 

Goals win games - look how Spuds just scraped a win against Fulham - Llorente was absolute dogshit. That's like our strikers.

We are impotent in the final third and to be honest it doesn't matter who plays, there's no danger in the box, and we can't score from outside the box since Lampard/Essien etc have left.

I'm not defending his team selection - I think we have some players who aren't up to scratch and it's easy to romanticize about our Youth, but they haven't really offered much when played - CHO has a couple of assists sure- but he needs a striker to be on the end of his crosses and through balls and we don't have that.

The reason we are in this shit position is because we keep changing managers and buying shit players for big money 

We need managerial stability and a DoF who will at least buy semi-decent players.

Until we get that, we will continue to spin round in ever decreasing circles.

Also Sarri finishing outside of Top 4 - we have had worse seasons under other managers ?

We have been the most successful club in the past 10 years, but now that has come to an end, we need to rebuild.

 

 

[DDA 9,570]

26 minutes ago, Laylabelle said:

Thing is we know what the board is like. Crap at completing deals.

I don't think that is entirely true and I'm sure if you was to actually go behind the scenes and see how these transactions are completed then i'm sure it isn't as easy as everyone thinks it is. I'm sure people think every other club bar ours identifies a player, makes a bid and everything goes swimmingly for every transfer made. 

[Tomo 21,681]

39 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Klopp had a club on the rise and a board that backed him

we have a club in decline, ageing, huge players probably soon gone, a truly shit board, and an owner in massive crisis

Klopp took over a team that finished outside the top 4 six seasons out of seven they looked even worse than they did even under Roy in Rodgers last days.

For his first three years he had to sell to buy, he was only able to sort his defensive issues by selling his best player to fund it, it's only really this summer he was given a chance to spend (NET). His first years he had to either sell valuable assets to make funds or scrape for cheap deals (no more than £30m bracket) for Klavan, Karius, Salah, Mane etc and lucky for Liverpool he got the latter two very right.

To say Klopp took over a club on the rise with a board that backed him simply isn't true, Liverpool would still be in the same shit they were in had Klopp rejected them, his management and that alone has elevated Liverpool to these heights. 

[Vesper 27,282]

23 minutes ago, Muzchap said:

The season isn't over yet.

We desperately need a striker - I don't care what you say about Liverpool or City, but they have always had decent strikers. We haven't. 

Goals win games - look how Spuds just scraped a win against Fulham - Llorente was absolute dogshit. That's like our strikers.

We are impotent in the final third and to be honest it doesn't matter who plays, there's no danger in the box, and we can't score from outside the box since Lampard/Essien etc have left.

I'm not defending his team selection - I think we have some players who aren't up to scratch and it's easy to romanticize about our Youth, but they haven't really offered much when played - CHO has a couple of assists sure- but he needs a striker to be on the end of his crosses and through balls and we don't have that.

The reason we are in this shit position is because we keep changing managers and buying shit players for big money 

We need managerial stability and a DoF who will at least buy semi-decent players.

Until we get that, we will continue to spin round in ever decreasing circles.

Also Sarri finishing outside of Top 4 - we have had worse seasons under other managers ?

We have been the most successful club in the past 10 years, but now that has come to an end, we need to rebuild.

 

 

The problem is we are NOT rebuilding.

We are going to short term 'hope and prayer' fixes (Higs), we are continuing to cock up legit rebuilding deals, we have an utter 'ostrich head in sand' attitude towards major player's contractual statuses that will probably end in tears (Hazard and CHO being the 2 main ones atm, plus Luiz if he walks) and we are seemingly incapable of selling players when offered great value (see my mega post on £620m in hard offers turned down) that would fund the rebuild.

Also, the one new deal we did do is also extremely speculative (Pulisic) other than his yank marketing potential, which only serves to feed the cynicism towards the board. They certainly do not help by blaring 'record profits!' whilst at the same time projecting a comprehensive lack of future-forward vision, including the new stadium cave-in.

It appears to me (even if I am the lone voice on this) a clusterfuck of multiple incoming trainwrecks.

[Vesper 27,282]

6 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Klopp took over a team that finished outside the top 4 six seasons out of seven they looked even worse than they did even under Roy in Rodgers last days.

For his first three years he had to sell to buy, he was only able to sort his defensive issues by selling his best player to fund it, it's only really this summer he was given a chance to spend (NET). His first years he had to either sell valuable assets to make funds or scrape for cheap deals (no more than £30m bracket) for Klavan, Karius, Salah, Mane etc and lucky for Liverpool he got the latter two very right.

To say Klopp took over a club on the rise with a board that backed him simply isn't true, Liverpool would still be in the same shit they were in had Klopp rejected them, his management and that alone has elevated Liverpool to these heights. 

You conveniently leave out the great young players such as Gomez and TAA (both who are or will soon be better than ANY backs we have atm) that were in the pipeline, AND the fact that irregardless of selling Coutinho the board and ownership DID back him massively.

VVD

Salah

Mane

Alisson

Xherdan Shaqiri

Fabinho

Naby Keïta

Georginio Wijnaldum

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

Roberto Firmino, who came just a few months before Klopp

and more to come

 

lol at luck btw

its called football intelligence, some we lack in spades

[Tomo 21,681]

15 minutes ago, Vesper said:

You conveniently leave out the great young players such as Gomez and TAA (both who are or will soon be better than ANY backs we have atm) that were in the pipeline, AND the fact that irregardless of selling Coutinho the board and ownership DID back him massively.

VVD

Salah

Mane

Alisson

Xherdan Shaqiri

Fabinho

Naby Keïta

Georginio Wijnaldum

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

Roberto Firmino, who came just a few months before Klopp

and more to come

 

lol at luck btw

its called football intelligence, some we lack in spades

Im sorry but had we sold Hazard and spent half the money on a Southampton CB this place would be in a riot and Marina would have had to have left the country for her own safety. Shaqiri aswell, when he was linked with us this place lost it's shit.The figures of what we are spending for Sarri compared to what Liverpool spent for Klopp in his first two summer windows is night and day,for example Klopp had to suffer with the chuckle brothers for three years before being handed a top class keeper by his heirachy, Sarri got one within weeks.

Klopp done very well with recruitment and youth promotion but he hasn't done it with a blank cheque, he's been very much doing it with the much malinged sell to buy policy until this summer that no manager like a Jose/Conte would have accepted in a million years.

If Sarri's gets sacked, lack of backing will be the last excuse he can use.

[Vesper 27,282]

22 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Im sorry but had we sold Hazard and spent half the money on a Southampton CB this place would be in a riot and Marina would have had to have left the country for her own safety. Shaqiri aswell, when he was linked with us this place lost it's shit.The figures of what we are spending for Sarri compared to what Liverpool spent for Klopp in his first two summer windows is night and day,for example Klopp had to suffer with the chuckle brothers for three years before being handed a top class keeper by his heirachy, Sarri got one within weeks.

Klopp done very well with recruitment and youth promotion but he hasn't done it with a blank cheque, he's been very much doing it with the much malinged sell to buy policy until this summer that no manager like a Jose/Conte would have accepted in a million years.

If Sarri's gets sacked, lack of backing will be the last excuse he can use.

I dont play strawman games, sorry.

[Tomo 21,681]

3 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I dont play strawman games, sorry.

Fair enough, were shit and do everything wrong while our rivals are amazing and do everything right, better?

[Muzchap 8,964]

Tomo I don't think it's a case of Sarri not being backed.

I think it's just going to take time for him to assess what we have and what we need and we know life isn't perfect and that sometimes the perfect player isn't available.

Nobody expected our front line to be this shit. I don't mind Higs as a short term fix to get us to the summer.

But, come the summer the place needs to be busy with lots out and lots in.

@Vesper - I have read your post and Yes, that would be fantastic, but I think 3 or 4 players in, per window is probably the max a team can make realistically.

I have no problems with 8 or 9 going out though and filling the spaces left with youth players- we just need to be realistic that they might make the odd mistake and cost us points- but I can live with that if it shows doing well in the Academy = Game Time 👍

[Vesper 27,282]

2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Fair enough, were shit and do everything wrong while our rivals are amazing and do everything right, better?

No, but we have comprehensively overall made massively poor decisions at board level for years.

My stance is well known. For a veritable multiplicity of reasons, I want the club sold, preferable to Jim Ratcliffe.

Bezos as my wet panties fantasy owner.

[Vesper 27,282]

1 minute ago, Muzchap said:

Tomo I don't think it's a case of Sarri not being backed.

I think it's just going to take time for him to assess what we have and what we need and we know life isn't perfect and that sometimes the perfect player isn't available.

Nobody expected our front line to be this shit. I don't mind Higs as a short term fix to get us to the summer.

But, come the summer the place needs to be busy with lots out and lots in.

@Vesper - I have read your post and Yes, that would be fantastic, but I think 3 or 4 players in, per window is probably the max a team can make realistically.

I have no problems with 8 or 9 going out though and filling the spaces left with youth players- we just need to be realistic that they might make the odd mistake and cost us points- but I can live with that if it shows doing well in the Academy = Game Time 👍

Obviously we cannot do all in 2 windows, but let's stop the rot and start to make truly smart, future-forward moves. Each window that goes by leaving a stale taste of failure overall makes me more and more sick to my tummy.

I will date this starting point to the window we sold De Bruyne. Inertia (and a brilliant manager in Conte) carried us to 2 titles since then, but my dog, look at us now. I mean REALLY look at us, with mid to long term event horizon vision.

[Muzchap 8,964]

3 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Obviously we cannot do all in 2 windows, but let's stop the rot and start to make truly smart, future-forward moves. Each window that goes by leaving a stale taste of failure overall makes me more and more sick to my tummy.

I will date this starting point to the window we sold De Bruyne. Inertia (and a brilliant manager in Conte) carried us to 2 titles since then, but my dog, look at us now. I mean REALLY look at us, with mid to long term event horizon vision.

I don't disagree- all of the Top Prem players- used to be our players 

Out future was bright and now it's dimmer, but we can reverse it - what's needed is a Director of Football and to stop wielding the managerial axe.

The manager is blamed for everything, when the issues are much deeper and I think we agree that point? 🤔

[Special Juan 27,093]

It's time for Sarri to adapt and start dropping under performers and stop all this fucking rinse and repeat shit.

 

[Laylabelle 9,292]

7 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

It's time for Sarri to adapt and start dropping under performers and stop all this fucking rinse and repeat shit.

 

Yep! Sadly looks unlikely. 

I wouldn't mind losing with a different set or to try a new formation or whatever. At the moment you get a feeling of dread soon as the team is announced. 

[Vesper 27,282]

10 minutes ago, Muzchap said:

I don't disagree- all of the Top Prem players- used to be our players 

Out future was bright and now it's dimmer, but we can reverse it - what's needed is a Director of Football and to stop wielding the managerial axe.

The manager is blamed for everything, when the issues are much deeper and I think we agree that point? 🤔

I blame the board first and foremost. We are the worst run top 20 team (maybe with exception of AC Milan) from a footballing perspective.