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Jason

17. Mateo Kovacic

Started by Jason,

358 posts in this topic
1 minute ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

Another question mark out there is what to do about a back-up to Jorginho.  Cesc has only played the one match there, so the jury is still out.  Even if he's pretty good in the role (all we need from a back-up), he's not getting younger and Jorginho can't play every match.  Considering how crucial the position is for us, a back up DLP is pretty high on the priority list too.  Or, at least will be in the coming year. 

In my fantasyland world, we would scupper Shitty to Neves. He has insane upside and can play any role in the MF,but,most importantly the Jorginho role (DH DMF)

Zero chance we drop £100m on him though.

Frenkie de Jong is the other young superstar in the making who can play DH DMF too (along with, (and this crazy), traditional DMF, CB, LB, RB, CMF, AMF, and even winger) Itis also fantasyland we land him,as even more than Neves, ALL, EVERY top ten, top 15 club want de Jong badly.

Santiago Ascacíbar (21yo Argentine) from Stuttgart would be great b/u,but he is also going to be VERY costly

Jean-Philippe Gbamin ,23yo Cote d'Ivoire on FSV Mainz 05 in the Bundesliga is also going to be really pricey,and is more of a traditional DMF

Same for 21yo Frenchman Lucas Tousart from Lyon (my dog, is that team LOADED with young talent)

Other options are also not cheap, Julian Weigl from Dortmund (Shitty on him too) and then the most realistic I think, Leandro Paredes from Zenit (Roma had to sell him and Rudiger to meet FFP)

Stanislav Lobotka (23yo Slovakian) from Celta Vigo often plays in a kind of Jorginho role too, and Spurs and PSG are all over him, Spuds has a £31m bid turned down at the window's end this summer.

I was shocked AC Milan sold Manuel Locatelli (20yo) for only £9m to Sassuolo this summer.He is already helping them immensely (they are only not in 3rd place in Serie A due to goal differential, as their defence has been shit). 

Sander Berge (20yo Norwegian who is exploding at Genk) is another possible option, but not sotested. Big lad too, 1.93m

Santiago Cáseres, 21yo Argentine who Villarreal just bought is another one

Danilo Barbosa da Silva on Nice  (22yo Brasilian) is also out there

 

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39 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

I'm optimistic about Eden as well.  But, I get his end, the longer this goes on, the more power he has.  It's not just about a move to Real.  If he decides to stay, he can still get himself a better deal in the summer.  

What mate - more power than the supposedly £350k a week he was SUPPOSEDLY offered? Well if thats true he will go down in my esimation of him Theres paying a man too much money then theres greedy bastards!!

39 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

Another question mark out there is what to do about a back-up to Jorginho.  Cesc has only played the one match there, so the jury is still out.  Even if he's pretty good in the role (all we need from a back-up), he's not getting younger and Jorginho can't play every match.  Considering how crucial the position is for us, a back up DLP is pretty high on the priority list too.  Or, at least will be in the coming year. 

We should be using Ethan as Jorgi boys stand in mate. Job done!

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7 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

Agree Mrs! f258bf24ba0510ea3cad990d50a7b0e8.gif

DEEP down I have a optimistic streak about Eden. I'm pissed that hes doing this and i don't understand it really. Theres nowt stopping him signing NOW and still going to RM IF they come a knocking UNLESS the club are adamant of installing a fuck off big buyout clause that he thinks will put RM off!

As for Mat K I really do HOPE Granny being the savvy business person she is has got some sort of deal already sussed out with RM

I really did go on a bit much about how important either him or Golovin would be to us before he joined and I'm so happy I was right. I can see him getting even better if he went into attack mode and just dying to see it happen.

Golovin was injured up until 3 games ago,and has not scored so far. Will be interesting to see how he pans out at Monaco.

Even if Kante fully adapts to new role, he's never going to be a big scorer, so it is REALLY on Kovacic and Barkley to step up to the plate. They both are capable in THIS system. Barkley only had one year (2015/16) where he hit double digits (12) in goals.even that year he only had 8 league goals.Maybe we are simply expecting too much.Frustrating as fuck.

look at 

Marek Hamsik's production, sigh

4ee68829c9e9d1c41aa20ec53c9f7ba1.png

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54 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

What mate - more power than the supposedly £350k a week he was SUPPOSEDLY offered? Well if thats true he will go down in my esimation of him Theres paying a man too much money then theres greedy bastards!!

We should be using Ethan as Jorgi boys stand in mate. Job done!

Players careers are short.  Get paid while you can.  And yes, at this point in time, every week that goes past, gives him more leverage.  350 is a ton of money, but 400 is better.  He holds all the cards right now.

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1 hour ago, Unionjack said:

 

We should be using Ethan as Jorgi boys stand in mate. Job done!

That may be his ultimate position, albeit down the road when Jorginho gets too old. That also assumes Sarri is still our manager in 5,6 years.

Ampadu is similar to Frenkie de Jong.They can play almost any position (winger may be a stretch for Amps) on the field, except for Striker and GK.

de Jong is actually a really good CB (not at Matthijs de Ligt level, but you are talking about a soon top 10 CB in world in de Ligt).

Buying de Jong would give Sarri crazy flexibility, especially if we also bought Pavard (he can play RB, CB, trad DMF, even LB and CMF in a pinch) and then add in Ampadu to the floater mix.

It would be uber smart football, so that means our board will never even make the offers for de Jong or Pavard, lolol

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1 hour ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

Players careers are short.  Get paid while you can.  And yes, at this point in time, every week that goes past, gives him more leverage.  350 is a ton of money, but 400 is better.  He holds all the cards right now.

I'm not really sure if I have the right principles to let a player -  even Eden - to basically hold the club to ransom to have his wages doubled.

What sort of message does it give the other players? Where do we draw the line?

Dont you get fed up with our player power?

I understand the arguments and I know its not black and white nut I just don't agree with the precedent it sets.

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10 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

I'm not really sure if I have the right principles to let a player -  even Eden - to basically hold the club to ransom to have his wages doubled.

What sort of message does it give the other players? Where do we draw the line?

Dont you get fed up with our player power?

I understand the arguments and I know its not black and white nut I just don't agree with the precedent it sets.

I guess that I just don't see it as "player power".  It's a free market and he's taking a gamble.  If he suffers a career threatening injury, what does he get then?  We also don't have to sell him next summer if we don't want to and he will have to "settle" for making half of his market wage for 2 years.

The other side of this the NFL where player's contracts aren't guaranteed, and you have situations like what happened this past weekend:  https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/9/30/17921482/earl-thomas-seattle-seahawks-leg-injury-contract-dispute

Basically, a player wanted a contract extension, he's nearing the end of his career, but he's a future hall of fame player.  It's a violent sport and injuries can happen at any time.  The club wouldn't do it, and they wouldn't trade him to a team that would.  He got injured on the weekend, now he'll get substantially less this coming off season.

You get players who want to leave the club, but the club is under no obligation to sell them.  I don't subscribe to this "can't keep an unhappy player" thing.  If they want to move to Barcelona, sulking and not playing isn't going to get you there, IMO.  I'm sure Pogba does want to go to Barcelona, but Man Utd don't have to do anything.  

But, when there is 1.5 years left on a players contract, the dynamic changes and it becomes sell me next summer or lose me for free the year after.  I'm actually kind of surprised that transfer fees are what they are after the Bosman ruling since you are really only paying for the right to pay a player for 5 years (or so).  

I find it unsavoury when a player keeps saying that they are going to sign a new deal, then doesn't and stages a sit-out right before the season starts and let everyone know that you will only sign for 1 of 2 clubs (sound familiar?)  In that case you are effectively fucking the club.  

I guess that there's a right way to do it an a wrong way to do it.  Hazard is holding all the cards because he's good enough to hold them.  Moses can go ahead an do the same thing if he wants.

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3 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

I guess that I just don't see it as "player power".  It's a free market and he's taking a gamble.  If he suffers a career threatening injury, what does he get then?  We also don't have to sell him next summer if we don't want to and he will have to "settle" for making half of his market wage for 2 years.

The other side of this the NFL where player's contracts aren't guaranteed, and you have situations like what happened this past weekend:  https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/9/30/17921482/earl-thomas-seattle-seahawks-leg-injury-contract-dispute

Basically, a player wanted a contract extension, he's nearing the end of his career, but he's a future hall of fame player.  It's a violent sport and injuries can happen at any time.  The club wouldn't do it, and they wouldn't trade him to a team that would.  He got injured on the weekend, now he'll get substantially less this coming off season.

You get players who want to leave the club, but the club is under no obligation to sell them.  I don't subscribe to this "can't keep an unhappy player" thing.  If they want to move to Barcelona, sulking and not playing isn't going to get you there, IMO.  I'm sure Pogba does want to go to Barcelona, but Man Utd don't have to do anything.  

But, when there is 1.5 years left on a players contract, the dynamic changes and it becomes sell me next summer or lose me for free the year after.  I'm actually kind of surprised that transfer fees are what they are after the Bosman ruling since you are really only paying for the right to pay a player for 5 years (or so).  

I find it unsavoury when a player keeps saying that they are going to sign a new deal, then doesn't and stages a sit-out right before the season starts and let everyone know that you will only sign for 1 of 2 clubs (sound familiar?)  In that case you are effectively fucking the club.  

I guess that there's a right way to do it an a wrong way to do it.  Hazard is holding all the cards because he's good enough to hold them.  Moses can go ahead an do the same thing if he wants.

I also look at it from other players pont of view. We have the Wee Baldy Man on £120k Jorgi on £100k who are also arguably world class and play 90 mins every game while Drinkwater is on £120k and NEVER plays and Cescy is on £160k playing when theres a blue moon.

I believe in giving a man what hes worth but we also need equality and limits.

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35 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

I also look at it from other players pont of view. We have the Wee Baldy Man on £120k Jorgi on £100k who are also arguably world class and play 90 mins every game while Drinkwater is on £120k and NEVER plays and Cescy is on £160k playing when theres a blue moon.

I believe in giving a man what hes worth but we also need equality and limits.

Yeah, I think that's a problem.  Our wage structure is out of whack.  Personally, I think it can cause issues in the dressing room.  I was at a job once where I found out that the guy sitting next to me was doing 60% of the work I was doing and making 1.5x as much.  It didn't take me long to leave that job for something else.  

You have to pay everyone what they are worth.  You think there aren't guys in the Utd dressing room who look over a Sanchez when he's strolling around and thinking "WTF!?!?"

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1 hour ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

Yeah, I think that's a problem.  Our wage structure is out of whack.  Personally, I think it can cause issues in the dressing room.  I was at a job once where I found out that the guy sitting next to me was doing 60% of the work I was doing and making 1.5x as much.  It didn't take me long to leave that job for something else. 

Exactly. Happened to me the other way round. I was on a year contract at this banks comp room earning a shit load doing nothimg winding it down for their office move. 3 guys above me in same room on about a 1/3 of what I got went thru my briefcase found a payslip. Kicked up shit and it was me that had to go LOL Still had to pay me 1/2 my contract tho haha

Peeps have very strange egos concerning their value to something so it can be a very difficult balance.

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8 hours ago, Unionjack said:

Exactly. Happened to me the other way round. I was on a year contract at this banks comp room earning a shit load doing nothimg winding it down for their office move. 3 guys above me in same room on about a 1/3 of what I got went thru my briefcase found a payslip. Kicked up shit and it was me that had to go LOL Still had to pay me 1/2 my contract tho haha

Peeps have very strange egos concerning their value to something so it can be a very difficult balance.

Funny how people react.  Personally, I would have asked for a raise if I were one of the other guys.  In my particular situation, I didn't think the place was all that and it was always a stepping stone, it just sped everything up for me.  But, I never begrudged the other guy for making more, if that's what he could get from the company, good for him.  

 

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23 hours ago, Vesper said:

In my fantasyland world, we would scupper Shitty to Neves. He has insane upside and can play any role in the MF,but,most importantly the Jorginho role (DH DMF)

Zero chance we drop £100m on him though.

Frenkie de Jong is the other young superstar in the making who can play DH DMF too (along with, (and this crazy), traditional DMF, CB, LB, RB, CMF, AMF, and even winger) Itis also fantasyland we land him,as even more than Neves, ALL, EVERY top ten, top 15 club want de Jong badly.

Santiago Ascacíbar (21yo Argentine) from Stuttgart would be great b/u,but he is also going to be VERY costly

Jean-Philippe Gbamin ,23yo Cote d'Ivoire on FSV Mainz 05 in the Bundesliga is also going to be really pricey,and is more of a traditional DMF

Same for 21yo Frenchman Lucas Tousart from Lyon (my dog, is that team LOADED with young talent)

Other options are also not cheap, Julian Weigl from Dortmund (Shitty on him too) and then the most realistic I think, Leandro Paredes from Zenit (Roma had to sell him and Rudiger to meet FFP)

Stanislav Lobotka (23yo Slovakian) from Celta Vigo often plays in a kind of Jorginho role too, and Spurs and PSG are all over him, Spuds has a £31m bid turned down at the window's end this summer.

I was shocked AC Milan sold Manuel Locatelli (20yo) for only £9m to Sassuolo this summer.He is already helping them immensely (they are only not in 3rd place in Serie A due to goal differential, as their defence has been shit). 

Sander Berge (20yo Norwegian who is exploding at Genk) is another possible option, but not sotested. Big lad too, 1.93m

Santiago Cáseres, 21yo Argentine who Villarreal just bought is another one

Danilo Barbosa da Silva on Nice  (22yo Brasilian) is also out there

 

Ascacibar is more of a B2B type if IIRC.  Weigl isn't going to happen.  Even if we did pay the large fee, I don't think he'd come here to play second fiddle.  Parades is a possibility, not a bad one.  Locatelli would be good as well.  The others, I don't know.

23 hours ago, Unionjack said:

We should be using Ethan as Jorgi boys stand in mate. Job done!

I'm not convinced that he's the right player.  I see him in central defence.  If he does end up in midfield, I'm not convinced that a deep lying playmaker is his long term role.

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11 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

The others, I don't know.

LOL It takes me ages going thru her posts checking out the players names I never heard of, But it has opened my mind to more options than the household names I'm aware of as I don't watch many European matches unless they  are big cup or Internationals.

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This guy has got a battery pack similar to Kante. It feels like he plays in every single game for club and country. Minimum 65-70' and often the full 90' and he just continues to fly around the pitch. I hope Sarri starts to manage his time a little bit, he is an immense player for us so we don't need him burning out.

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1 hour ago, Vesper said:

Kovacic taking in London:)

 

Should buy a house, then he could do this every day when not at training or match days, for next 5-6 (+) years.

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