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Jorginho


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4 hours ago, DDA said:

His confidence has gone. At Napoli he played in tight spaces like a G. Now he struggles to control the ball. He can't handle the amount of games he is having to play. He needs a rest but his confidence has definitely gone. When you hit as many passes as he does to thin air because nobody wants to run into the spaces then slowly but surely you feel like you are the problem. His close control could rival Lukakus at this moment in time. Believe it or not I actually think he has regressed as a player having played alongside the likes of Willian and co. We need a back up option a.s.a.p.

The guy whos never won jack shit has regressed having to play next to the likes of accomplished league and world cup winners? Oh the poor child :(

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23 minutes ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

The guy whos never won jack shit has regressed having to play next to the likes of accomplished league and world cup winners? Oh the poor child :(

He may have never won anything but look at him in comparison to now. I'm not making this shit up. That Napoli team he played in would destroy this Chelsea team.

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2 minutes ago, the wes said:

Carlos 4-4-2 formation would destroy the sarri-ball formation 🙁🙁

My 3rd favourite Chels team ever (in my lifetime) was Carlo's 2009-10. I went BONKERS when he was sacked. A little blue part of my heart died that day. 2004-5 first and the CL winning side ( because we won!) 2nd.

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13 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

Saw a post in the comments on WAGNH

If he's so useless and shit, why is every team trying to man-mark him out of the match?  

Logical fallacy.

The fact they CAN take him out means the system is fucked and he is not capable of overcoming this.

Jorginho isn't a player who can have 80% of the opposing team trying to take him out and still win

unlike

Image result for michael jordan deviantart early dunk

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23 minutes ago, !Hazard! said:

What we need is another midfielder with world class vision and passing ability to play next to Jorginho. It's a shame that Cesc-Jorginho-Kante/Kovacic midfield didn't really get a chance to play together

Errrm, I think Jorginho aka deep lying playmaker should have those qualities...

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Just now, Vesper said:

Logical fallacy.

The fact they CAN take him out means the system is fucked and he is not capable of overcoming this.

 

So, when Herrera marked Hazard out of the match a couple of seasons ago, are we saying the same thing about Hazard?  He's not capable of overcoming it?  As in most sports, if you want to change the whole shape of your defence and make 1 player spend the whole match following another, that other player is going to have a tough time and he will need team mates to move in to the space and help out because there are gaps now.

It's the same for Jorginho.  It means that he has to get some help in the build up.

Our 2 worst matches were against a a 442 diamond midfield.  2 strikers mark the CBs, man marking in midfield.  The space is down the wings where we can actually create a overloads.  But teams don't mind giving us the ball out wide, because we can't cross and have no one getting in to the box anyway.  That's on Sarri to fix.

But, having your game reduced because you've got a player acting like your shadow has happened to a lot of players who are better than Jorginho and it does suggest that he will pose you problems if he's left alone (or so these opposition managers believe).

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Even his short passing was bad in Arsenal game, but they pressed like crayze - credit where it's due.

But I don't think I could ever love him if he doesn't show very good long-passing ability. A think he is not offering enough currently. People are comparing him with Busquets - while he may not be great in long passing, too, I have a feeling that he is significantly better in defense and he has slightly better touch.

Many players could be Jorginho-type players, it's just that teams rarely play with out-and-out/pure deep lying playmaker. They mostly play with some kind of Fernandinho - Brozović balanced type. From what I am seeing in last 2 months I don't think Jorginho is more useful than Brozović or Fernandinho.

Hope Higuain will shake him up with his movement.

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5 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

So, when Herrera marked Hazard out of the match a couple of seasons ago, are we saying the same thing about Hazard?  He's not capable of overcoming it?  As in most sports, if you want to change the whole shape of your defence and make 1 player spend the whole match following another, that other player is going to have a tough time and he will need team mates to move in to the space and help out because there are gaps now.

It's the same for Jorginho.  It means that he has to get some help in the build up.

Our 2 worst matches were against a a 442 diamond midfield.  2 strikers mark the CBs, man marking in midfield.  The space is down the wings where we can actually create a overloads.  But teams don't mind giving us the ball out wide, because we can't cross and have no one getting in to the box anyway.  That's on Sarri to fix.

But, having your game reduced because you've got a player acting like your shadow has happened to a lot of players who are better than Jorginho and it does suggest that he will pose you problems if he's left alone (or so these opposition managers believe).

More the system I think, than down to Jorginho alone, but I do have to say, after watching him half a year in the EPL, he is not up to speed defensively, which cascades over into the other 2 MF'ers in the  4 3 3 Sarri system.

His passing of late has also be atrocious in terms of being the cauldron from which truly offensive football in boiled..

IMHO (and I am certainly not the football goddess) he has regressed from the beginning of the year.

I am far from the only human seeing this, judging off myriad numbers of commentary videos I have seen.

 

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18 minutes ago, Vesper said:

More the system I think, than down to Jorginho alone, but I do have to say, after watching him half a year in the EPL, he is not up to speed defensively, which cascades over into the other 2 MF'ers in the  4 3 3 Sarri system.

Sure, but just because it's not one extreme, doesn't mean it's the other.  As always, it's probably somewhere in the middle.  And what I'm saying is that he's clearly not useless.  If he were useless you could leave him alone and sit back waiting for him to misplace a pass.  They are clearly trying to take his time away.

I don't think he's regressed, I just think he's not playing that well right now.  I think he, along with the rest of the team, will look better when we are moving off the ball.  It's much easier to man mark when everyone is just standing around and it's much easier to pass the ball when the receiver isn't just standing next to his marker.  He could also use a day off too.  This is his first season with a second useless cup and no winter break.

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1 hour ago, Vesper said:

Logical fallacy.

The fact they CAN take him out means the system is fucked and he is not capable of overcoming this.

Jorginho isn't a player who can have 80% of the opposing team trying to take him out and still win

unlike

Image result for michael jordan deviantart early dunk

Those guys are super rare.

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1 minute ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

Sure, but just because it's not one extreme, doesn't mean it's the other.  As always, it's probably somewhere in the middle.  And what I'm saying is that he's clearly not useless.  If he were useless you could leave him alone and sit back waiting for him to misplace a pass.  They are clearly trying to take his time away.

I don't think he's regressed, I just think he's not playing that well right now.  I think he, along with the rest of the team, will look better when we are moving off the ball.  It's much easier to man mark when everyone is just standing around and it's much easier to pass the ball when the receiver isn't just standing next to his marker.  He could also use a day off too.  This is his first season with a second useless cup and no winter break.

Do not think he is useless at all, I just think he is not the linchpin to build the system around with the current squad (and the board will NOT, IMHO give Sarri the Napoli level players to make his 4 3 3 work)

He clearly needs a break as well. Fuck those Zenit cunts for trying to grab €55m from us for Paredes.

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Just now, Vesper said:

Do not think he is useless at all, I just think he is not the linchpin to build the system around with the current squad (and the board will NOT, IMHO give Sarri the Napoli level players to make his 4 3 3 work)

He clearly needs a break as well. Fuck those Zenit cunts for trying to grab €55m from us for Paredes.

No, I don't think that YOU think he's useless (I've seen him in your 'meh' category).  It's more like a statement against some of the narrative going around that are saying he's useless.  Like rio Ferdinand saying "I don't see what he offers".  I mean, it's funny.  If he could see it he'd be a coach like some of his other peers.  But, he's just using his name to get a TV gig (fair play).  don't confuse me for saying that I think he's been stellar.  But, I think he'll look like a decent player (what he is) when all of the moving pieces are working properly.

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3 minutes ago, Vesper said:

they are!!!

Was kind of a cheap shot on my part, as Jordan is arguably the greatest athlete in modern history.

I'm actually reading "The Jordan Rules" right now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jordan_Rules_(book)

There's this part in it where a player is telling the author about a conversation that he was having with Jordan about a particular shot and MJ says "You just hang in the air for 3 seconds and after the defender goes past you, it's an easy shot" (or something to that effect)

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