test

Welcome to Talk Chelsea

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

Special Juan

Sarri But Not Sarri Thread

Started by Special Juan,

1,705 posts in this topic
Just now, Jason said:

Personally, think the talk of offensive football under Ancelotti has been greatly exaggerated by those 4 games in which we scored 7+ goals. And never mind Ancelotti, the football we played in the first half of 2014/15 and first season under Conte was much, much better than this.

Anelka and Drogba.

If we had at least one of these two now, we wouldn't even be debating this. 

I personally love the way Sarri sets up. We play nice football. We need a striker man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Fernando said:

I think people have amnesia. 

Because the same people who are clamoring city and Liverpool fail to realize they was this dire in the first season. 

It's going to take time, you be obtuse to expect much of anything this season. 

Actually City was very good offensively under Guardiola in his first season, creating loads of chances but they struggled defensively with poor full-backs and centre-backs. Same with Liverpool and Klopp. We are absolutely toothless upfront, it looks more like Van Gaal's United rather than anything resembling Klopp or Guardiola.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Bosnian Blue said:

Actually City was very good offensively under Guardiola in his first season, creating loads of chances but they struggled defensively with poor full-backs and centre-backs. Same with Liverpool and Klopp. We are absolutely toothless upfront, it looks more like Van Gaal's United rather than anything resembling Klopp or Guardiola.

Yes very good offensively, poor defensively but you can't outscore your opponent every match. Rodgers learned that at Liverpool, AVB learned that here, Pep learned it in year one... defensively we have improved under Sarri. We have the foundations just lack a few players in offensive positions to create chances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, DDA said:

Anelka and Drogba.

If we had at least one of these two now, we wouldn't even be debating this. 

I personally love the way Sarri sets up. We play nice football. We need a striker man.

wish we had a time machine

 

Johnnyeye and Unionjack like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Fernando said:

I think people have amnesia. 

Because the same people who are clamoring city and Liverpool fail to realize they was this dire in the first season. 

It's going to take time, you be obtuse to expect much of anything this season. 

Problem is if things don't improve he won't get the time to sort it anyway. If much the same next season probably he gone halfway. Whereas Liverpool and City stuck to it. 

Fernando likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Laylabelle said:

Problem is if things don't improve he won't get the time to sort it anyway. If much the same next season probably he gone halfway. Whereas Liverpool and City stuck to it. 

Well yes next year we must see some improvement. I agree on this. And I believe we will. 

Unionjack and kc_blue like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Yes very good offensively, poor defensively but you can't outscore your opponent every match. Rodgers learned that at Liverpool, AVB learned that here, Pep learned it in year one... defensively we have improved under Sarri. We have the foundations just lack a few players in offensive positions to create chances.

I fail to see how we have defensively improved over Sarri. We are still leaking in goals. I admit the defense unit are more in harmony compared to the beginning of the season, but we are still leaking in goals AND now, not scoring goals.

But you know, I'm seeing a pattern. People here are already clanging on to "It's Sarri's first season, look at Klopp/Pep!" just like they did with Morata (playing that Drogba card!), Bakayoko and co. What people fail to realise how stubborn Sarri is. You just have to look at what he's doing with CHO and the youths, and yesterday's game. I'm sorry, he doesn't need more time to realise Willian is shite.

He doesn't need more time to realise Alonso is terribad and Emerson is an available option.

He doesn't need more time to realise that he should change the formation and go for it because Spuds just weren't doing anything to us.

Am I calling for Sarri's head? No, but I'm fed up with people making tired excuses.

Bosnian Blue likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Mana said:

I fail to see how we have defensively improved over Sarri. We are still leaking in goals. I admit the defense unit are more in harmony compared to the beginning of the season, but we are still leaking in goals AND now, not scoring goals.

We have conceded 6 goals in 10 games and not given many big chances away outside of that, not sure how that equates to leaking goals.

Miguelito and Panic like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Tomo said:

We have conceded 6 goals in 10 games and not given many big chances away outside of that, not sure how that equates to leaking goals.

EDIT: You mean all competitions. I originally thought you mean in the league. Edited post.

Leaking doesn't mean conceding in bucketloads. And some of those "6" goals hurt us badly as we lost games thanks to those goals. 

As I said, the defense unit has gotten better since the beginning of the season, but we are not quite there yet. But let me remind you is, the WHOLE point of Sarriball is to score more goals, not becoming a defensive unit with having more possession.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote
1 hour ago, Mana said:

But you know, I'm seeing a pattern. People here are already clanging on to "It's Sarri's first season, look at Klopp/Pep!" just like they did with Morata (playing that Drogba card!), Bakayoko and co. What people fail to realise how stubborn Sarri is. You just have to look at what he's doing with CHO and the youths, and yesterday's game. I'm sorry, he doesn't need more time to realise Willian is shite.

He doesn't need more time to realise Alonso is terribad and Emerson is an available option.

He doesn't need more time to realise that he should change the formation and go for it because Spuds just weren't doing anything to us.

Am I calling for Sarri's head? No, but I'm fed up with people making tired excuses.

 

I think it's a valid point that changing a team usually takes time and both of those two examples are great examples of it.  Neither of those teams were all conquering right from the start under those 2 managers.  They both had problems that held them back.  Pep got much more of an infusion in the second season to push things along faster but Klopp has been steadily improving his team year on year and they both are reaping the rewards now 3 and 4 years on.  It's going to take a bit of patience from the board and the fans to really change things.  Don't lower your standards but perhaps be aware and accepting that this year isn't going to be up to those standards and that's not necessarily a failure in and of itself.

 

I could be wrong and I don't want to speak for Sarri but I doubt he has failed to realize Alonso is terribad or that Willian is shite.  In my opinion he just doesn't think there's a better option at the moment.  I wish he'd played CHO more earlier but I do believe CHO was going to start getting more minutes anyway.  I see that situation very much like the RLC situation.  Getting small opportunities and as they perform getting more time on the pitch.  As a coach in charge for 6 months he's been cautious, perhaps overly cautious, in making changes and trying not to upset the squad.  It can be tricky trying to integrate multiple players at a time.  I don't think I'd call him overly stubborn on players as much as I'd say he's been overly cautious.  I guess it amounts to the same in the end.  It's frustrating but like we have to take into account our history with youth when looking at the CHO situation I think we also need to taking into account our history with managers when looking at Sarri.  I can understand some caution on his part to avoid disrupting squad and making big changes quickly.  Anyway, not trying to make excuses as much as bring a different perspective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, kc_blue said:

I think it's a valid point that changing a team usually takes time and both of those two examples are great examples of it.  Neither of those teams were all conquering right from the start under those 2 managers.  They both had problems that held them back.  Pep got much more of an infusion in the second season to push things along faster but Klopp has been steadily improving his team year on year and they both are reaping the rewards now 3 and 4 years on.  It's going to take a bit of patience from the board and the fans to really change things.  Don't lower your standards but perhaps be aware and accepting that this year isn't going to be up to those standards and that's not necessarily a failure in and of itself.

 

I could be wrong and I don't want to speak for Sarri but I doubt he has failed to realize Alonso is terribad or that Willian is shite.  In my opinion he just doesn't think there's a better option at the moment.  I wish he'd played CHO more earlier but I do believe CHO was going to start getting more minutes anyway.  I see that situation very much like the RLC situation.  Getting small opportunities and as they perform getting more time on the pitch.  As a coach in charge for 6 months he's been cautious, perhaps overly cautious, in making changes and trying not to upset the squad.  It can be tricky trying to integrate multiple players at a time.  I don't think I'd call him overly stubborn on players as much as I'd say he's been overly cautious.  I guess it amounts to the same in the end.  It's frustrating but like we have to take into account our history with youth when looking at the CHO situation I think we also need to taking into account our history with managers when looking at Sarri.  I can understand some caution on his part to avoid disrupting squad and making big changes quickly.  Anyway, not trying to make excuses as much as bring a different perspective.

I should expand on the Klopp/Pep-Sarri comparison.

There is a major difference between Klopp/Pep and Sarri. Klopp and Pep has a proven history of winning titles/trophies. What has Sarri won? And you have to look at yesterday and maybe that's one of the reasons why he failed to win anything in his career!

At least Klopp on his first season, was experimenting with youths and what he's got. And he had some success! Thrashed City twice, beating us at the Bridge, 0-6 against Villa to name a few. Klopp's first season is unfair to compare as well, he was appointed during the season, replacing terrible Rodgers. Had no time to settle, worse than Sarri.

Pep on his first season, while it was overall disappointing he beat every top 6 side at least once except Spuds and Chelsea. Finished 3rd. Only lost 6 times. 

Another reason why we shouldn't compare, is because as everyone has said, Sarri has a tougher transition than these two. So it's a different story altogether! Klopp vs. Pep first season comparison makes more sense than Klopp vs. Sarri's.

Unionjack and kc_blue like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Mana said:

I should expand on the Klopp/Pep-Sarri comparison.

There is a major difference between Klopp/Pep and Sarri. Klopp and Pep has a proven history of winning titles/trophies. What has Sarri won? And you have to look at yesterday and maybe that's one of the reasons why he failed to win anything in his career!

At least Klopp on his first season, was experimenting with youths and what he's got. And he had some success! Thrashed City twice, beating us at the Bridge, 0-6 against Villa to name a few. Klopp's first season is unfair to compare as well, he was appointed during the season, replacing terrible Rodgers. Had no time to settle, worse than Sarri.

Pep on his first season, while it was overall disappointing he beat every top 6 side at least once except Spuds and Chelsea. Finished 3rd. Only lost 6 times. 

Another reason why we shouldn't compare, is because as everyone has said, Sarri has a tougher transition than these two. So it's a different story altogether! Klopp vs. Pep first season comparison makes more sense than Klopp vs. Sarri's.

I think we shouldn't be looking as his trophy record but more the way he got Napoli playing. Because that was why we appointed him and i think we are hoping the winning culture at the club will give us that push to make up for any possible lack of winning mentality with Sarri, like it did for City when they appointed Pellegrini. Infact it's almost a role reversal to when Jose first came, back then the performances were fine but we lacked the winning mentality, this time around we have the winning mentality but need performance finetuned.

Ultimately the reason the comparison's are made is because Sarri seems to be getting let down by a few players holding him back the same way both did. Pep was held back by average fullbacks and Bravo the same way we are by striker, it's a lot more personnel problem than a system problem like say Moyes at United was. If he gets his reinforcements and we still can't hit a barn door with a machine gun or we can't  get over the line in tournaments or minimum compete then fair enough he's had a fair crack and failed but at this minute he in my opinion he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Unionjack, kc_blue and kellzfresh like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I think we shouldn't be looking as his trophy record but more the way he got Napoli playing. Because that was why we appointed him and i think we are hoping the winning culture at the club will give us that push to make up for any possible lack of winning mentality with Sarri, like it did for City when they appointed Pellegrini. Infact it's almost a role reversal to when Jose first came, back then the performances were fine but we lacked the winning mentality, this time around we have the winning mentality but need performance finetuned.

Ultimately the reason the comparison's are made is because Sarri seems to be getting let down by a few players holding him back the same way both did. Pep was held back by average fullbacks and Bravo the same way we are by striker, it's a lot more personnel problem than a system problem like say Moyes at United was. If he gets his reinforcements and we still can't hit a barn door with a machine gun or we can't  get over the line in tournaments or minimum compete then fair enough he's had a fair crack and failed but at this minute he in my opinion he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I didn't want to bring up his trophy record, but when you compare Klopp and Pep with him, you have to bring that up as one of the points.

Winning mentality? I rarely got to see that last season, with all those spineless performances. 

I get what you're saying, that the players are not performing for Sarri. That's why I'm not calling for Sarri's neck at this point. I'm just simply telling you all to not ignore what Sarri has done, and covering it up with excuses. Can somebody tell me why he is afraid to use any of our title-winning youth squads? Why does he hug Willian and Alonso to death? Morata, I'll give him a pass because we really have nobody to replace him and Sarri has now opened his eyes that he's shite.

Yesterday this attacking line up:

CHO            Hazard

     Pedro/Giroud

...would have been much better. Every person knows, bar Sarri playing Hazard as a false nine rarely works. Yesterday's formation was all about fitting in Willian. If CHO didn't make noise, CHO would have been benched (or not in the squad at all).

And Barkley was screwing up. Should have been replaced by Kovacic since the start of the 2nd half. It's these little things that make me question Sarri. 

Sarri no question, I agree is being held back by donkeys. But this is the Mickey Mouse cup, you can gamble and bring on some well established youths FFS that will arguably play better. Sarri, has no excuse for us losing yesterday. Using VAR error as an excuse is not good enough.

Beigl and Tomo like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Mana said:

I didn't want to bring up his trophy record, but when you compare Klopp and Pep with him, you have to bring that up as one of the points.

Winning mentality? I rarely got to see that last season, with all those spineless performances. 

I get what you're saying, that the players are not performing for Sarri. That's why I'm not calling for Sarri's neck at this point. I'm just simply telling you all to not ignore what Sarri has done, and covering it up with excuses. Can somebody tell me why he is afraid to use any of our title-winning youth squads? Why does he hug Willian and Alonso to death? Morata, I'll give him a pass because we really have nobody to replace him and Sarri has now opened his eyes that he's shite.

Yesterday this attacking line up:

CHO            Hazard

     Pedro/Giroud

...would have been much better. Every person knows, bar Sarri playing Hazard as a false nine rarely works. Yesterday's formation was all about fitting in Willian. If CHO didn't make noise, CHO would have been benched (or not in the squad at all).

And Barkley was screwing up. Should have been replaced by Kovacic since the start of the 2nd half. It's these little things that make me question Sarri. 

Sarri no question, I agree is being held back by donkeys. But this is the Mickey Mouse cup, you can gamble and bring on some well established youths FFS that will arguably play better. Sarri, has no excuse for us losing yesterday. Using VAR error as an excuse is not good enough.

This says it all. As I said before you be obtuse to expect much this season, and your expectation are too high. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.