Sarri But Not Sarri Thread

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

6 hours ago, Vesper said:

His mid 1990's Ajax teams were crazy good

1994-95 especially

 

Stacked.

Bosman ruling messed that club up.  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4533326/Ajax-1995-Champions-League-Bosman-dismay.html

I knew that they lost some key players due to that, but by 99 they had lost everyone.  Davids, Reiziger, Kluivert, Bogarde all gone for free.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

Chelsea's set pieces:

https://statsbomb.com/2018/10/examining-chelseas-set-piece-routines/

 

 

[!Hazard! 3,394]

5 hours ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

Stacked.

Bosman ruling messed that club up.  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4533326/Ajax-1995-Champions-League-Bosman-dismay.html

I knew that they lost some key players due to that, but by 99 they had lost everyone.  Davids, Reiziger, Kluivert, Bogarde all gone for free.

Ridiculous when you think that this squad would be worth a billion euros today.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

Interview with Zola, Sarri and Jorginho.

[lucio 5,370]

lmao what were those subs? taking off Christensen for Luiz when it was Cahill shitting the bed. Then off comes loftus cheek, our brightest attacking spark, always the players with potential that get the hook

[OneMoSalah 8,609]

46 minutes ago, lucio said:

lmao what were those subs? taking off Christensen for Luiz when it was Cahill shitting the bed. Then off comes loftus cheek, our brightest attacking spark, always the players with potential that get the hook

Honestly Christensen was just as poor I felt.

Didn't matter who he took off if the defence didn't play as bad he'd of been able to make positive changes.

Pedro needed minutes, thought Ruben plays well but was a sensible sub to make. 

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, OneMoSalah said:

Honestly Christensen was just as poor I felt. Didn't matter who he took off if the defence didn't play as bad he'd of been able to make positive changes. Pedro needed minutes, thought Ruben plays well but was a sensible sub.

If anything, I'd point the finger at Sarri's rigidity with the player-position selection. Said Loftus-Cheek, Kovacic and Barkley are all competing one place and to compromise, he decided to stick Ruben out wide, which is not even his best position. Why can't he think differently and play a different kind of midfield at times? 

[OneMoSalah 8,609]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

If anything, I'd point the finger at Sarri's rigidity with the player-position selection. Said Loftus-Cheek, Kovacic and Barkley are all competing one place and to compromise, he decided to stick Ruben out wide, which is not even his best position. Why can't he think differently and play a different kind of midfield at times? 

Tbf looking on how the game went, the pair of Kovacic and Kante had to play, they give us plenty of energy in MF.

Maybe he could have dropped one of them and used Ruben more centrally or used Ross but had Pedro not been brought off the other week then he'd probably have started and we might have seen that.

Again, he's not hugely known for rotatiom and you can see why perhaps. The back 4 was all over the place because they've hardly played together, the spaces between the defence and MF was quite alarming (been an issue with our first 11 at times never mind a second string team).

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, OneMoSalah said:

Tbf looking on how the game went, the pair of Kovacic and Kante had to play, they give us plenty of energy in MF.

Maybe he could have dropped one of them and used Ruben more centrally or used Ross but had Pedro not been brought off the other week then he'd probably have started and we might have seen that.

Again, he's not hugely known for rotatiom and you can see why perhaps. The back 4 was all over the place because they've hardly played together, the spaces between the defence and MF was quite alarming (been an issue with our first 11 at times never mind a second string team).

Not having issue with Sarri's rotation but more so with his player-position selection. To him, it's Jorginho/Fabregas, Kovacic/Barkley/Loftus-Cheek and Kante. We know he wants a deep lying playmaker in his midfield trio but is he THAT rigid that he can't even switch it up some times? Is there really only one way to play Sarriball? Can't he play Kante in DM and Barkley and Kovacic ahead of him. Think I've seen this discussion take place in the forum but feel like his rigidity will cost us games and/or players somewhere down the line. 

[Tomo 21,681]

11 minutes ago, Jason said:

Not having issue with Sarri's rotation but more so with his player-position selection. To him, it's Jorginho/Fabregas, Kovacic/Barkley/Loftus-Cheek and Kante. We know he wants a deep lying playmaker in his midfield trio but is he THAT rigid that he can't even switch it up some times? Is there really only one way to play Sarriball? Can't he play Kante in DM and Barkley and Kovacic ahead of him. Think I've seen this discussion take place in the forum but feel like his rigidity will cost us games and/or players somewhere down the line. 

All the other positions can be comprised but the one he needs a specific player is DLP, similar to how quality wingers made or breaked Fergie's tactics or wingbacks with Conte.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Tomo said:

All the other positions can be comprised but the one he needs a specific player is DLP, similar to how quality wingers made or breaked Fergie's tactics or wingbacks with Conte.

But the point here is about flexibility. Sure, Fergie's United were known for their wing play but it wasn't his do-or-die approach. His team carried threat from midfield as well and there were times when he tweaked it and heck, he even played the diamond midfield system from time-to-time. As for Conte, we all know he likes the back 3 system but at the same time, we all know the severe limitations of that system. When it doesn't work out, as we saw many times last season, he rarely tries to change things around. Not saying Sarri's football has gone to pots that he needs to make a wholesale change but surely, it wouldn't hurt to make some minor tweaks if/when needed, would it?

[Vesper 27,280]

On 29/10/2018 at 5:12 PM, !Hazard! said:

Ridiculous when you think that this squad would be worth a billion euros today.

and Patrick Kluivert wasn't even listed, lolol

[Vesper 27,280]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

But the point here is about flexibility. Sure, Fergie's United were known for their wing play but it wasn't his do-or-die approach. His team carried threat from midfield as well and there were times when he tweaked it and heck, he even played the diamond midfield system from time-to-time. As for Conte, we all know he likes the back 3 system but at the same time, we all know the severe limitations of that system. When it doesn't work out, as we saw many times last season, he rarely tries to change things around. Not saying Sarri's football has gone to pots that he needs to make a wholesale change but surely, it wouldn't hurt to make some minor tweaks if/when needed, would it?

Tweeks yes, at times

BUT

We just flat out need better, younger players

NO CHANCE we roll forward over next 2,3 years as a top 10, let alone top 5 club in world with:

 

Luiz (and other than Ampadu, bad backups backup to Rudiger)

Azpi (sorry he just isnt a Sarriball RB atm, he simply has to turn it around) Zappacosta is just not good enough

Current backup options at DH DMF (buy Tonali!!!) as Jorginho cannot play every minute of every game and Cesc is a spent force

Alonso (Sarri is insane to call him on verge of being best LB in world) Emerson doesn't look like the answer either

CMF/B to B hybrid options if we lose Kovacic (as a non-adapting, out of position Kante is looking more and more like not the answer)

Current options at AMF if Barkley is injured

Willian RW (shambolic!!!) Pedro is soon simply too old and frail

LW could be a true nightmare soon, if both Eden and CHO walk

Centre Forward (worse shape than RW!)

and finally

truly massive amount of deadwood on the books, draining us badly and losing value daily

 

 

 

 

[OneMoSalah 8,609]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

Not having issue with Sarri's rotation but more so with his player-position selection. To him, it's Jorginho/Fabregas, Kovacic/Barkley/Loftus-Cheek and Kante. We know he wants a deep lying playmaker in his midfield trio but is he THAT rigid that he can't even switch it up some times? Is there really only one way to play Sarriball? Can't he play Kante in DM and Barkley and Kovacic ahead of him. Think I've seen this discussion take place in the forum but feel like his rigidity will cost us games and/or players somewhere down the line. 

Tbf playing Kante as a DM is going to affect our play. Kante is decent with the ball but Jorginho and Cesc offer so much more from that position, which is key to helping beat a press or get through the lines faster.

Just look at when Conte played Kante as a 6 in 433/4141 against West Ham, Liverpool, Arsensl etc, he did a good job defensively but looking back on it we struggled to get through the lines and had to work the ball round another way to get into the final third.

With Jorginho or Cesc we can go straight into more dangerous positions as a result of this, getting to the front players quicker as well as retaining possession better because these guys constantly want the ball every time the CBs, FBs or GK have it and know when to pick the correct pass through the lines or when to keep it simple.

Id imagine on average the deepest lying midfield player (Jorginho/Cesc) completes the more passes and has more touches than anybody else in this team, so giving Kante that role and that responsibility could affect things massively. Plus i like seeing him in this new role think he has got so much to offer, similarly to Allan who played it for Napoli. Kantes biggest strength is winning the ball back and intercepting it for me, which in a team who want to have 60% of the ball or more, always be on the front foot, that skills much more useful higher up when we lose it. Having him in that playmaker role is a waste and would disrupt how we play. 

 

[Vesper 27,280]

39 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Tbf playing Kante as a DM is going to affect our play. Kante is decent with the ball but Jorginho and Cesc offer so much more from that position, which is key to helping beat a press or get through the lines faster.

Just look at when Conte played Kante as a 6 in 433/4141 against West Ham, Liverpool, Arsensl etc, he did a good job defensively but looking back on it we struggled to get through the lines and had to work the ball round another way to get into the final third.

With Jorginho or Cesc we can go straight into more dangerous positions as a result of this, getting to the front players quicker as well as retaining possession better because these guys constantly want the ball every time the CBs, FBs or GK have it and know when to pick the correct pass through the lines or when to keep it simple.

Id imagine on average the deepest lying midfield player (Jorginho/Cesc) completes the more passes and has more touches than anybody else in this team, so giving Kante that role and that responsibility could affect things massively. Plus i like seeing him in this new role think he has got so much to offer, similarly to Allan who played it for Napoli. Kantes biggest strength is winning the ball back and intercepting it for me, which in a team who want to have 60% of the ball or more, always be on the front foot, that skills much more useful higher up when we lose it. Having him in that playmaker role is a waste and would disrupt how we play. 

 

Kante cannot be the DL PM DMF, you are correct, but that's not where the issue is. Kovacic would be the superior player IMHO where Kante is now, with Barkley or RLC playing the AMF role.

The strongest possible team we can put out now IMHO

is

GK Kepa

CB Rudiger

CB Amapdu (when healthy, otherwise have to suffer with Luiz, who was exposed again tonight multiple times)

LB Alonso (because Emerson is just not good enough and this is also why, due to Alonso's lack of pace we need Ampadu in as the other CB as Luiz is no longer that fast)

RB Azpi

DHDMF Jorginho

CMF Hybrid B to B  Kovacic

AMF Barkley

LW Hazard

RW Pedro

CF Giroud

 

the best way to fit Kante in is to do to a back 3 (Azpi, Ampadu, Rudiger, with Amps in the middle)

then Kante as a floating destroyer

BUT still keep the 3 man MF in same roles

and same 3 at the front

3-1-3-3

with the 1 being Kante flying like a wasp on turbo all over the back third

Kante and the CB's still immediately get the ball to Jorginho to put Sarriball offence in motion

Kante floats and wins balls back and helps support the back 3

no fullbacks are needed, and Azpi is a great CB, so BYE BYE turtle Alonso (unless you want to give him a shot at striker, lolol)

[OneMoSalah 8,609]

52 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Kante cannot be the DL PM DMF, you are correct, but that's not where the issue is. Kovacic would be the superior player IMHO where Kante is now, with Barkley or RLC playing the AMF role.

The strongest possible team we can put out now IMHO

is

GK Kepa

CB Rudiger

CB Amapdu (when healthy, otherwise have to suffer with Luiz, who was exposed again tonight multiple times)

LB Alonso (because Emerson is just not good enough and this is also why, due to Alonso's lack of pace we need Ampadu in as the other CB as Luiz is no longer that fast)

RB Azpi

DHDMF Jorginho

CMF Hybrid B to B  Kovacic

AMF Barkley

LW Hazard

RW Pedro

CF Giroud

 

the best way to fit Kante in is to do to a back 3 (Azpi, Ampadu, Rudiger, with Amps in the middle)

then Kante as a floating destroyer

BUT still keep the 3 man MF in same roles

and same 3 at the front

3-1-3-3

with the 1 being Kante flying like a wasp on turbo all over the back third

Kante and the CB's still immediately get the ball to Jorginho to put Sarriball offence in motion

Kante floats and wins balls back and helps support the back 3

no fullbacks are needed, and Azpi is a great CB, so BYE BYE turtle Alonso (unless you want to give him a shot at striker, lolol)

Honestly I think Kante-Jorginho-Kovacic is our best MF 3 still. Has a nice blend of everything, except for physical size, which isn't necessarily important but useful in some games.

Kantes role is still vital, gives the team balance in MF. If you remove Kante the midfield is too offensive minded, too unbalanced. I am not saying Kante is Busquets but that great Barca teams MF needed Busquets because he offered balance without the ball, Kante is similar in a different way, he is the only out of the three that positionally understands the defensive roles of a midfielder, Kovacic gets stuck in and has come leaps and bounds since his Inter days but can still be caught out positionally, which is something which attributed towards not being trusted at Madrid in big games if they had MF injuries.

I mean still Kante averages 2 tackles and 1.8 interceptions a game. Fair enough it's not the stats he usually gets but in a possession based team recovering the ball is still important and there's not any better than Kante in the world at it.

Kovacic averages 1.4 tackles per game and 0.4 a game, Ruben averages 0.8 tackles and 0.2 interceptions a game, Cesc averages 0.5 tackles a game and 0.3 interceptions, Jorginho averages 1.6 tackles and 1 interception per game and Ross averages 0.5 tackles and 0.3 interceptions per game. 

Kantes role is exactly the same as Allan's was for Sarri at Napoli. The best way to fit him in is in a 3 man MF or Sarri wouldn't do it if he didnt believe he suited the role... unless you know more than Sarri.. 

It seems balance is still the most underrated concept in football. Even City and Liverpool have got good balance now. You can have 70% of the ball but if your not able to have some balance of some sort in your team you'll concede goals left right and centre. 

[Vesper 27,280]

25 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Honestly I think Kante-Jorginho-Kovacic is our best MF 3 still. Has a nice blend of everything, except for physical size, which isn't necessarily important but useful in some games.

and except for almost no goals if you pull Barks and RLC to the bench..

We simply have to get goals from our MF, as we are so crippled at 2 of our 3 front positions.

I just do not see it working out for Kante, UNLESS we went to that other formation OR we buy Icardi or Dybala (or some other monster goal scoring CF) AND keep Hazard and get a monster RW.

Get those 2 pieces to the puzzle the pressure is off the MF.

Our board is probably not going to do it. I think we sit pat this January, even on a new striker, unless we can get some sort of serious price break from someone . Maybe, MAYBE, if we are lucky we nip Suso from AC Milan for RW (which would help a shit tonne), but I think we trod on with Willian and Pedro and leave it to Sarri to will goals out of Morata and Giroud.

I honestly think the board thinks that all our starters are basically in the area of being so good we cant improve on them, including Morata. Certainly they look at shit Willian, dodgy defending Luiz, slow as fuck Alonso, and no-go for offo Azpi as being top 2 or 3 in their positions in the world. Sarri does too, for Alonso at least.

The board refuses to sell deadwood, yet also refuse to admit mistakes and to buy better players, PLUS are paralysed with fear or wilful ignorance about Hazard potentially leaving. Same for CHO (and THAT is REALLY on Sarri). I will never forgive him if CHO leaves and then goes Sancho-Nova at another club.

We are running on an incredibly string of luck all year so far. That shit is bound to end, and when it does, the train wreck may be worse than the normalcy bias crew can wrap their heads around.

[OneMoSalah 8,609]

8 minutes ago, Vesper said:

and except for almost no goals if you pull Barks and RLC to the bench..

We simply have to get goals from our MF, as we are so crippled at 2 of our 3 front positions.

I just do not see it working out for Kante, UNLESS we went to that other formation OR we buy Icardi or Dybala (or some other monster goal scoring CF) AND keep Hazard and get a monster RW.

Get those 2 pieces to the puzzle the pressure is off the MF.

Our board is probably not going to do it. I think we sit pat this January, even on a new striker, unless we can get some sort of serious price break from someone . Maybe, MAYBE, if we are lucky we nip Suso from AC Milan for RW (which would help a shit tonne), but I think we trod on with Willian and Pedro and leave it to Sarri to will goals out of Morata and Giroud.

I honestly think the board thinks that all our starters are basically in the area of being so good we cant improve on them, including Morata. Certainly they look at shit Willian, dodgy defending Luiz, slow as fuck Alonso, and no-go for offo Azpi as being top 2 or 3 in their positions in the world. Sarri does too, for Alonso at least.

The board refuses to sell deadwood, yet also refuse to admit mistakes and to buy better players, PLUS are paralysed with fear or wilful ignorance about Hazard potentially leaving. Same for CHO (and THAT is REALLY on Sarri). I will never forgive him if CHO leaves and then goes Sancho-Nova at another club.

We are running on an incredibly string of luck all year so far. That shit is bound to end, and when it does, the train wreck may be worse than the normalcy bias crew can wrap their heads around.

I think a 20 goal a season striker, a CB and RW will bring the team up (obviously need to be the right players) but I wouldn't panic yet regarding Kante  he's impressing me in this new role, bringing different aspects of his game to the fore and getting involved more offensively. He improved under Conte and will do so under Sarri in this different role.

I agree we lack goals from MF, some top teams have had this but had an appropriate amount of goals in attacking areas. So it remains to be seen what will happen, RW and CF is areas we could see improvements in.