Sarri But Not Sarri Thread

[It's too big 625]

I don't see any other team in top five, barring City and Liverpool, who have made as good a signing as Jorginho this summer yet. Man Utd haven't. Arsenal haven't. Spurs certainly haven't. I honestly believe Man Utd and Spurs will be two teams who won't perform as well this coming season. It's just a prediction though, nobody can 100% be certain of anything. Nobody would have predicted Leicester won the league, nobody would have predicted Conte's Chelsea won the league over Pep and Mourinho, but this is what happens. We can try make predictions all we want, but ultimately nobody really knows.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

39 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Not sure if I'm in the minority but the biggest regret for me is that we didn't keep Benitez. 

I can understand the initial dislike of him coming in with his Liverpool ties but the crowd didn't warm to him mainly because of fake quotes spread around the internet years earlier. It was pathetic because he steadied what was a fast sinking ship under Di Matteo. The defence was far more solid, he was getting a better tune out of the likes of Hazard and Mata and even Torres was serviceable in his time.

I just felt after getting us comfortably in the top 4 and winning the Europa he deserved a chance if the fans hadn't hounded him out. Despite winning the league, Mourinho coming back was a disaster - tainted his legacy and left us selling some of our best young attacking players that we are yearning for still now.

I wasn't so against the Benitez hiring at the time.  

1.  People were complaining, but who was available?  As an interim manager, I thought he was head and shoulders above anyone else that was on the market

2.  People have an issue with what he said about us when he was at Liverpool.  Well, he's going to pander to their fan base, isn't he?  

However, I don't feel like he should have gotten the permanent gig.  I think his strength is getting the most out of a limited squad.  The football is safe and boring.  The results will be steady, safe, and boring.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

On ‎18‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 10:23 AM, NiclasCFC said:

Can we get rid of this cringey thread name please? Show some class and respect to our new man and name it "The Maurizio Sarri Thread" 

Sarri no. Can't believe someone's got the hump over the name of a thread and frankly this overused word class has got to stop. All football clubs are ruthless especially these days if your looking for class and the usage of buy a Downton Abbey DVD mate.

[Jase 43,479]

18 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I definitely wouldn't have him now. At the time though, i feel he deserved a full season after his interim stint to see what he could do. He has won the league previously with Valencia and with the greatest respect to his Liverpool tenure, he was never going to consistently challenge us and United at the time.

He may have won the league with Valencia but that was like in the early 2000s, when times were a lot different back then. Since achieving those titles, he has gotten close to it only once. Never mind not winning it, his teams have always finished miles behind the champions. Is that what we really want? To be like Wenger's Arsenal in the league? Also, look at the difference he and Sarri had with Napoli. Was like day and night.

19 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

i feel he deserved a full season after his interim stint to see what he could do.

Yeah...look at what happened with Di Matteo before him.

19 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I think at the time he did what was needed which was to shore us up and get us a Champions League spot. It wasn't pretty at times but there was also some potential that could be seen there and we were in a transition phase trying to get the overall makeup of the squad younger.

He did what he needed to do and the mistake wasn't letting Benitez go, it was bringing Mourinho back. With the kind of players we bought back then, we clearly wanted to adopt a more progressive, exciting, attacking brand of football going forward but because we couldn't get Guardiola back then or a manager of his kind with proven success, we took the easy option by going after Mourinho.

[Superblue 6,331]

2 minutes ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

I wasn't so against the Benitez hiring at the time.  

1.  People were complaining, but who was available?  As an interim manager, I thought he was head and shoulders above anyone else that was on the market

2.  People have an issue with what he said about us when he was at Liverpool.  Well, he's going to pander to their fan base, isn't he?  

However, I don't feel like he should have gotten the permanent gig.  I think his strength is getting the most out of a limited squad.  The football is safe and boring.  The results will be steady, safe, and boring.

Completely see and understand your points. Is there an argument though that at the time we were in a state of transition with Drogba having left, the likes of Cech, Cole, Terry and Lampard nearing the end of their Chelsea careers that having someone steady and safe was what we needed to keep that transition smooth.

It has always felt like the board had done a fine job of finding replacements for some of our key players (Courtois for Cech, De Bruyne for Lampard, Lukaku for Drogba) and a younger group of players were being primed for the club and when Mourinho came back that script got ripped up completely when in hindsight it shouldn't have been.

[Superblue 6,331]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

He did what he needed to do and the mistake wasn't letting Benitez go, it was bringing Mourinho back. With the kind of players we bought back then, we clearly wanted to adopt a more progressive, exciting, attacking brand of football going forward but because we couldn't get Guardiola back then or a manager of his kind with proven success, we took the easy option by going after Mourinho.

I agree with this point. My part is on comparing Benitez and Mourinho and in hindsight I'd rather have kept Benitez than bring back Mourinho. 

There were probably other options at the time that we could have taken instead of both. I just can't remember that far back who would have been available and a good option.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

23 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Completely see and understand your points. Is there an argument though that at the time we were in a state of transition with Drogba having left, the likes of Cech, Cole, Terry and Lampard nearing the end of their Chelsea careers that having someone steady and safe was what we needed to keep that transition smooth.

It has always felt like the board had done a fine job of finding replacements for some of our key players (Courtois for Cech, De Bruyne for Lampard, Lukaku for Drogba) and a younger group of players were being primed for the club and when Mourinho came back that script got ripped up completely when in hindsight it shouldn't have been.

Oh, I was 100% against bring back Jose.  It was a terrible decision.  Worse than AVB and/or Scolari.  Yes, we got a title, but we mortgaged so much for it.  It had a <5% chance of ending well.  I only give it a small number because nothing in life is 100%.  Death and taxes and all that.

I think that keeping Benitez around for transition would have maybe been okay, if we had a recognized identity as a club, which is what it all comes back to.  (having said that, maybe Benitez would have been the guy to have around until we got that kind of thing in place since he's so vanilla).

It all comes back to club identity.  Hopefully we are on that path now.  After Sarri leaves, there should be enough ground work to install another attacking manager without overhauling the squad (again).  

[Unionjack 7,531]

1 hour ago, Iggy Doonican said:

Sarri no. Can't believe someone's got the hump over the name of a thread and frankly this overused word class has got to stop. All football clubs are ruthless especially these days if your looking for class and the usage of buy a Downton Abbey DVD mate.

think it mighta been me that started the Conte 'Class' debate

But as I explained he was just being true to what he thought and didn't seem over the top or BS.

He just thanked his team and supporters. Never mentioned Roman or the board as that would be 2 faced.

Can't see owt wrong with what he said. OK might have been put into 'proper' sentences etc but the basics are his I'm sure.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

51 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

think it mighta been me that started the Conte 'Class' debate

But as I explained he was just being true to what he thought and didn't seem over the top or BS.

He just thanked his team and supporters. Never mentioned Roman or the board as that would be 2 faced.

Can't see owt wrong with what he said. OK might have been put into 'proper' sentences etc but the basics are his I'm sure.

Nothing wrong with what he said but it was just a pretty bland statement and as I said all clubs have gagging clauses. Besides he's always going to be welcomed back by the fans not so if he slagged the club and fans off. Most of our ex players would get a warm welcome back after they retired if they brought on the pitch at half time or whatever except Gallas who most be unique in being the only player hated by three different sets of fans us, goons and the god forbids.

[Tomo 21,680]

5 hours ago, Mana said:

Lol. Have you seen Arsenal's new squad lately? They can still tear us a new one (like they have done the past 2 seasons) especially without Hazard.

I admire your supreme optimism, but please. Jorginho alone isn't going to make us jump from 5th to 3rd. Especially with that strikeforce of Morata/Giroud. Below Arsenal's, Spuds', Liverpool's and arguably United's.

Arsenal's signing are bang average and Emerys league record is wank, weren't you banging on about how Arsenal were going to catch us after Auba's  signing and guess what? They didn't get close to doing so. 

Spurs look likely to lose their best defender, sign Jack Grealish and start the season with Sissoko and Winks as CM, Terryfying. 

As for United, Jose season three enough said. 

I'll grant you that City and Liverpool will be tough to catch in the short term but the other three? Have a day off, that's just typical "were shit and our rivals are amaze balls" syndrome. 

[Pizy 17,860]

4 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Arsenal's signing are bang average and Emerys league record is wank, weren't you banging on about how Arsenal were going to catch us after Auba's  signing and guess what? They didn't get close to doing so. 

Spurs look likely to lose their best defender, sign Jack Grealish and start the season with Sissoko and Winks as CM, Terryfying. 

As for United, Jose season three enough said. 

I'll grant you that City and Liverpool will be tough to catch in the short term but the other three? Have a day off, that's just typical "were shit and our rivals are amaze balls" syndrome. 

Remember that Spuds also look likely to lose Dembele, their best CM. I do forsee Arse being much better under their new manager but as you say, I don't think they've made any seriously impressive signings. They've signed mid-tier players who the top clubs weren't even looking at. United, unless they sign another top class attacker and some fullbacks I can definitely see them in a real fight for 4th.

At this point, Liverpool and City have to be obvious and clear favorites.  

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

8 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Arsenal's signing are bang average and Emerys league record is wank, weren't you banging on about how Arsenal were going to catch us after Auba's  signing and guess what? They didn't get close to doing so. 

Spurs look likely to lose their best defender, sign Jack Grealish and start the season with Sissoko and Winks as CM, Terryfying. 

As for United, Jose season three enough said. 

I'll grant you that City and Liverpool will be tough to catch in the short term but the other three? Have a day off, that's just typical "were shit and our rivals are amaze balls" syndrome. 

I agree except for the amaze balls bit 

[OneMoSalah 8,607]

6 hours ago, Mana said:

Lol. Have you seen Arsenal's new squad lately? They can still tear us a new one (like they have done the past 2 seasons) especially without Hazard.

I admire your supreme optimism, but please. Jorginho alone isn't going to make us jump from 5th to 3rd. Especially with that strikeforce of Morata/Giroud. Below Arsenal's, Spuds', Liverpool's and arguably United's.

Not necessarily true. Not even just Jorginho, Sarri is a big plus, fair enough hes not proven outside of Italy but Pep wasn't outside of Barca before Germany or Pochettino outside of Spain before Engalnd etc, good coaches can work everywhere, and he has every chance, even more so if Eden Hazard stays. Conte was also an excellent coach no point saying anything else but last season was very indifferent if you look at his time with Juventus and Italy. The players and manager last season were poor.. its our fault we finished 5th, not the fact that everybody who finished above us were so so so much better (although City and Liverpool hands down were, United for a period as well although like usual under Jose they struggled, went more defensive... 4th was arguably there for the taking and we fucked it). We were losing games we shouldn't have lost. I know people will say Conte took an average team from that disastrous season to the league title but the season beforehand it was the same team that won the league under Jose. It was a good team, that lacked a few elements, legs in MF, motivation, an effective system, etc. 

Currently, this squad needs a few departures, 4 or 5 new faces that are the right fit and a bit of fine tuning but top 4 should be achievable next season, no doubt about it. You think if we can get 20-25 goals more from all of our midfield and attacking players than we did last season we will get top 4. Goals win games, we didn't score enough last season when we needed to get second goals to kill of games and we conceded too many after that. Sarri is an incredibly offensive minded coach, so the goals will come at some point, just look at Napoli... the chances they created, goals they scored, shots they got on target during the 3 years Sarri was in charge, it was like the most in Serie A in that time period. 

France got to the WC final with Giroud as their main striker... Juventus got to the CL final with Morata as one of their main strikers... I think the two of them can still offer something here. I can't wait to see people moan about Higuain if he does come here because inevitably somebody will find something to complain about regarding him. 

Also Arsenals squad? They signed two 30+ year old defenders who are average players, although they are experienced. Lucas Torreria is a good signing yes, so is Leno and obviously they have goals guaranteed with Aubamayang and Lacazette but it is hardly an outstanding squad like City have, its a good one but again Arsenal have always had a good squad and they were even worse off than we were last season, they finished below us. We need to be more worried about the Manc clubs and trying to close the gap to them and pains me to say it but even Liverpool who have just went and completely upgraded their GK and midfield with 3 players a lot better than what they had. 

[Tomo 21,680]

19 minutes ago, Mana said:

Arsenal: It was too little too late, and they focused all their energy on the EL. Auba has been around for half a season and was one goal away from equalling Morata's PL goalscoring tally. Also, about Emery's record - we aren't talking about who's going to win the league. Of course Emery's Arsenal will not be challenging for it. I'm talking about top 4, and he has the squad capable of doing so.

He might do, but so do we. Even with Conte causing toxic clouds through the whole club we took it to the last day. Also Emery's league record at Sevilla was a series of constant underachievement finishing outside top four with squads that should be making it, the Europa kept bailing him out.

22 minutes ago, Mana said:

Spuds: Their "best defender" didn't play for the majority of last season, and still did well. Better than us anyway. Sissoko and Winks are average, but what about literally ever other player on their starting XI? 

As it stands the only position Spurs kick our arse in is striker, while we do them with keeper (admittedly that could not be the case for long). The general feeling around WHL is it the squad are coming to the end of their cycle and they need quality injection fast, something they don't look like getting.

24 minutes ago, Mana said:

United: I said "arguably United". If Jose and United don't cause any chaos between themselves, it will be a tough battle for us to overtake them. They played shite football for the majority of last season, yet came 2nd.

The second half of the season for them was pretty much a mirror imagine of our second half in 14/15 (thankgod we didn't have Pep's City to face), performances getting worse but results still there for now, they are seriously outperforming the XG goal metre which isn't sustainable. I doubt they will plunge to 16th like we did but i reckon they will be a damp squib and we will have to have a seriously shit season to finish below them.

If Sarri can get his ideas across quickly (and we don't lose Hazard) we should be finishing top four, admittedly the title is out of reach this time round however.

[OneMoSalah 8,607]

5 hours ago, Mana said:

The jury is sort of still out on Sarri, but I don't want to discuss him because I have faith in Sarri that he will get rid of the negative football we have been playing for years. He has fresh ideas waiting to burst. He isn't my concern.

It's definitely not the same team. I definitely can't remember Morata and Baka being in our squads in 2014 or 2016.

And yes, that's what I'm saying. We need more Sarri signings. I have zero faith with Bakayoko and little faith in Morata, Moses, Alonso, Willian, Pedro and Fabregas. Giroud also won't be that guy that would score ton of goals now. He's old, and slow.

P.S - Serie A is different to the PL. You saw Pep struggle on his first season in the PL. Not saying Sarri wouldn't succeed in his first season, but don't you fall in to that same trap that it's an easy transition for Sarri.

France had Griezmann and Mbappe come on now.

Juventus had Dybala and Mandžukić. Nowhere near comparable to what we have got (except Hazard, but he ain't a top goalscorer).

Its basically the same core of players squads from those seasons. 25 players make up a squad and you could say that more than half of them were there then (not including the likes of youngsters who come and go regardless). This group has got serial winners in it if we like it or not, guys like Cesc, Pedro, Hazard, Azpi, Courtois, Morata, Cahill, guys who have won a lot. This helps Sarri. I don't think people should be looking at the team last season and going we won't be able to get top 4. If Conte got a league title out of that squad with Moses, Alonso, Cahill, David Luiz playing every week then I have every expectations than Sarri can get top 4 with a few minor changes if his philosophy is implemented fast. Pep didnt struggle in all fairness, his style was implemented, obviously last season was better but you try play that sort of football with players like Zabaleta, Mangala and Kolarov, not going to work as effectively as it did this season with guys like Mendy, Walker, Ederson, as well as the countless attackers they have. 

France had Griezmann and Mbappe, yeah fair enough but Griezmann was piss poor throughout the tournament I felt. Mbappe was something else when he wanted to be, what a player but in all fairness Giroud was instrumental to that French team, he was always their out if they were under pressure and I don't think people appreciate that either because hes not flashy hes not fast etc etc. I get it Giroud is not necessarily going to be a shoe in here but hes an option, something different, a plan B. Morata as well you severely underestimate I think, he had a poor second half of the season but Sarri will make him better, the struggle he had in the second half of the season will help him too having played through it. Drogba had an incredibly poor start here.. look how he turned out. Morata was never going to make the grade at Real week in week out because he wasnt a galactico or whatever shit they want to be but Juventus wanted to keep him so badly and there must of been a reason. Even if Higuain comes in I think Morata is more than good enough to stay, if he starts well like he did last season I doubt anyone will say anything. Up to December he was probably our most productive player along with Hazard.   

[Duppy Conqueror 1,447]

the shortened transfer window,shortened further because of the world cup and in our case shortened further because of the fiasco of taking so long getting Sarri and 2 of our 4 world class players wanting to leave.i think it would be heroic of him if he can get us to 3rd in his first season and probably worthy of manager of the year contention if he can get us any of the 3 cups.

I want to see us play with a swagger,every time we lose we go down fighting,,none of that distasteful bending over parting our cheeks and praying they use lube that we saw away to Man City last season.

[kellzfresh 7,226]

Sarri already implementing the one touch football. Looking good 

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1020643908823396352/pu/vid/720x1280/n14BGgvYzDq-1ez7.mp4?tag=3

 

[Special Juan 27,092]

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