Callum Hudson-Odoi

[Clockwork 1,762]

1 hour ago, Robchels said:

Good for him, but people are disregarding the opposition, which is something fans often do. Please don’t compare completely unequal things... it’s silly.

otherwise, to be consistent, we’d have to say morata is great too!  

The quality of the opposition is basically everything.

Morata didn't look any different than against any other side, shit example. He just had incredible amount opportunities on a platter. Look at the overall performance and focus on their skill sets. We have seen Willian against much weaker opponents over the past six seasons, i know what he is capable of. 

Nottinham Forest are a upper Championship team, their quality in defense is not that much different from lower PL. They struggle offensively.

 

[robsblubot 3,205]

1 hour ago, Clockwork said:

Morata didn't look any different than against any other side, shit example. He just had incredible amount opportunities on a platter. Look at the overall performance and focus on their skill sets. We have seen Willian against much weaker opponents over the past six seasons, i know what he is capable of. 

Nottinham Forest are a upper Championship team, their quality in defense is not that much different from lower PL. They struggle offensively.

 

Sorry, another comparison I strongly disagree with.

There are players who do well against stronger opposition and players who do poorly against stronger opposition. In general, younger players do poorly against stronger opposition, which is why you don't see a whole lot of them starting for the top clubs. The physical and mental aspects of the game play a very big part in tough matches.

Willian has had really good single-elimination CL games (more than Eden for ex). Willian does well against stronger opposition because he is a team player, regardless of his end product. There is a reason many top clubs and managers rate him - don't really understand why folks choose to ignore this fact.

Odoi was very poor against Watford. Eden has had poor games against smaller sides where he's contained by physicality. The same would happen to Odoi, but far more often.

He's an 18yo player who will get opportunities as he should. Now, if folks here think he is right now better than Willian, then it's really a discussion that does not interest me. And I'm far from a WIllian fan.

[whats happening 1,439]

5 hours ago, Stats said:

It is a shame that rather than focus on the performance of our player, people are using it to have continuous shots at Willian. He is our player and while he might not be delivering the goods, is It fair the amount of slack he is getting? We are supporters. The continuous mocking and abuse of him is ridiculous. Seems that people have fun making jokes out of our players who has provided a good service for the years he has been here. That is just my intake on things anyway.

funny how you defend the one player who took shots at our still working manager, and then blaming it on his daughter.

shit player and a shit person.

[scargo 75]

5 hours ago, DANILA said:

Now I don't want to defend Willian as he's had a poor season, but to compare CHO's 2 assists today to Willian's since October is a bit unfair - this is the weakest opposition we've played all season. Had Willian started, there is a chance he would have dominated and made fools of the defenders. 

Aside from that, we really do need to keep CHO. If we end up keeping him, Bayern's interest was actually good in hindsight as it probably built up his confidence, and more importantly woke up the Board and coaching staff.

No. Willian can not even destroy a weak team. He did nothing against the derby county.

 

[scargo 75]

2 hours ago, Robchels said:

Sorry, another comparison I strongly disagree with.

There are players who do well against stronger opposition and players who do poorly against stronger opposition. In general, younger players do poorly against stronger opposition, which is why you don't see a whole lot of them starting for the top clubs. The physical and mental aspects of the game play a very big part in tough matches.

Willian has had really good single-elimination CL games (more than Eden for ex). Willian does well against stronger opposition because he is a team player, regardless of his end product. There is a reason many top clubs and managers rate him - don't really understand why folks choose to ignore this fact.

Odoi was very poor against Watford. Eden has had poor games against smaller sides where he's contained by physicality. The same would happen to Odoi, but far more often.

He's an 18yo player who will get opportunities as he should. Now, if folks here think he is right now better than Willian, then it's really a discussion that does not interest me. And I'm far from a WIllian fan.

 

Willian is good player. But it is now a thing of the past. 

Odoi was poor agianst Watford? Wiilian was poor against all-premier-team. Why are you so strict to Odoi?

Willian is 30 years old, Odoi is 18 years old. Odoi have enormous potential for development.

In order to keep Odoi, We have to give him a chance instead of Willian right now.

[Vesper 27,282]

2 hours ago, Robchels said:

Sorry, another comparison I strongly disagree with.

There are players who do well against stronger opposition and players who do poorly against stronger opposition. In general, younger players do poorly against stronger opposition, which is why you don't see a whole lot of them starting for the top clubs. The physical and mental aspects of the game play a very big part in tough matches.

Willian has had really good single-elimination CL games (more than Eden for ex). Willian does well against stronger opposition because he is a team player, regardless of his end product. There is a reason many top clubs and managers rate him - don't really understand why folks choose to ignore this fact.

Odoi was very poor against Watford. Eden has had poor games against smaller sides where he's contained by physicality. The same would happen to Odoi, but far more often.

He's an 18yo player who will get opportunities as he should. Now, if folks here think he is right now better than Willian, then it's really a discussion that does not interest me. And I'm far from a WIllian fan.

Willian is the antithesis of what is needed in a Sarriball winger. He slows down the entire system. He is a ball hog, lacks a creative football brain, and as he ages, has lost his scoring ability to a scary degree.

Before you say he is only 30 (31 next summer), might I remind you that Alexandre Pato, a few months back was 28. LOLOL

Robinho, who has been around since jeebus was a little boy, and has been utter shit for 7 or so YEARS is only 34

Rooney shit out the minute he hit 30.

The difference between a 28yo Alexis and a 30yo Alexis is literally insane.

Cesc, who most say is a spent force (leg wise) is only 31.

We were beyond numpty twats to not take £65m and RUN for Willian last summer.

Most of us (damn near all?) called it 6 months ago.

If Eden leaves (100% lock if no CL), and then (or now) CHO STILL leaves, Willian (and Sarri) will be partial architects in the semi-destruction on a couple year (hopefully only that long) basis of the club, due to on-field shitbaggery (limp-todger anaemic offence) and personnel (ie. CHO not getting but a whiff of playing time and Willian trotted out like clockwork) shitbaggery. 

Dont forget the cascading effect this will have on our academy and young players. Look at Shitty, Sancho is causing many to want to leave there already. Brahim Diaz is now pulling the same shit.

[robsblubot 3,205]

21 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Willian is the antithesis of what is needed in a Sarriball winger. He slows down the entire system. He is a ball hog, lacks a creative football brain, and as he ages, has lost his scoring ability to a scary degree.

Before you say he is only 30 (31 next summer), might I remind you that Alexandre Pato, a few months back was 28. LOLOL

Robinho, who has been around since jeebus was a little boy, and has been utter shit for 7 or so YEARS is only 34

Rooney shit out the minute he hit 30.

The difference between a 28yo Alexis and a 30yo Alexis is literally insane.

Cesc, who most say is a spent force (leg wise) is only 31.

We were beyond numpty twats to not take £65m and RUN for Willian last summer.

Most of us (damn near all?) called it 6 months ago.

If Eden leaves (100% lock if no CL), and then (or now) CHO STILL leaves, Willian (and Sarri) will be partial architects in the semi-destruction on a couple year (hopefully only that long) basis of the club, due to on-field shitbaggery and personnel (ie. CHO not getting but a whiff of playing time and Willian trotted out like clockwork) shitbaggery. 

Dont forget the cascading effect this will have on our academy and young players. Look at Shitty, Sancho is causing many to want to leave there already. Brahim Diaz is now pulling the same shit.

heh you seem to have a very binary way to define players, one which I strongly disagree with. Not sure why you mentioned Robinho and Pato since they were never really good players (Willian has done more than either). Cesc's legs were gone long ago.

Most players are not merely good or bad, or better or worse. They are above all different in what they do. Most of our players are at least decent and would easily play elsewhere.

If we play City or Pool and we start CHO instead of Willian (something no sane manager would ever do), we'd be more likely to lose the game. Not because Willian will produce more in attack, but because he would not do so many things that Willian does, which would hurt the team and our chances against such opposition. Willian is a good team player even if lacks in the final third.

Now if the discussion is around finding a better player than Willian in the market, one who does what Willian does and also has an end product, then that would be a far more interesting one to have.

@scargo Well for me CHO is utter shit right now. He's a fucking youngster who has not done anything yet, literally. He's naive in his game, does not track back at all (low work rate), has no physicality and therefore will likely vanish in any remotely competitive match. He's got potential but that does not make him ready for us. Will he become a good player in a couple/few years? Probably, but maybe not. He will likely never reach Eden's level (few do). If he does not sign a new deal I honestly couldn't care less.

[Vesper 27,282]

15 minutes ago, Robchels said:

heh you seem to have a very binary way to define players, one which I strongly disagree with. Not sure why you mentioned Robinho and Pato since they were never really good players (Willian has done more than either). Cesc's legs were gone long ago.

Most players are not merely good or bad, or better or worse. They are above all different in what they do. Most of our players are at least decent and would easily play elsewhere.

If we play City or Pool and we start CHO instead of Willian (something no sane manager would ever do), we'd be more likely to lose the game. Not because Willian will produce more in attack, but because he would not do so many things that Willian does, which would hurt the team and our chances against such opposition. Willian is a good team player even if lacks in the final third.

Now if the discussion is around finding a better player than Willian in the market, one who does what Willian does and also has an end product, then that would be a far more interesting one to have.

@scargo Well for me CHO is utter shit right now. He's a fucking youngster who has not done anything yet, literally. He's naive in his game, does not track back at all (low work rate), has no physicality and therefore will likely vanish in any remotely competitive match. He's got potential but that does not make him ready for us. Will he become a good player in a couple/few years? Probably, but maybe not. He will likely never reach Eden's level (few do). If he does not sign a new deal I honestly couldn't care less.

I was not being binary, I specifically said he was shit for Sarriball. Willian may well have worked out forManure or Barca,who knows.

He is not a good fit here, and has been toxic in the past.

The age comparative section was to point out there is a healthy chance that Willian soon drops off a cliff performance wise. The signs are already there.

Absolutely not being binary. If you read my myriad number of evaluation posts on players and tactics and overall strategy, you will see I am one of the least binary thinkers on the board.

I am ALL about contextual SWOT analysis, on here, and in my real life personal relationships, as well as my career.

Also, complete straw-man on the 'start CHO when we play Shitty' misrepresentation. I NEVER said such a thing. Obviously he isn't going to play in every game.

 

and THIS:

is complete dross, simply madness

he is more than intelligent enough to begin to fill out any weak areas of his game with proper minutes

you act like every bloody game we play IS against a Shitty level team

BOLLOCKS

 

 

[robsblubot 3,205]

2 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I was not being binary, I specifically said he was shit for Sarriball. Willian may well have worked out forManure or Barca,who knows.

He is not a good fit here, and has been toxic in the past.

Absolutely not being binary. If you read my myriad number of evaluation posts on players and tactics and overall strategy, you will see I am one of the least binary thinkers on the board.

I am ALL about contextual SWOT analysis, on here, and in my real life personal relationships, as well as my career.

Also, complete straw-man on the 'start CHO when we play Shitty' misrepresentation. I NEVER said such a thing. Obviously he isn't going to play in every game.

 

and THIS:

is complete dross, simply madness

he is more than intelligent enough to begin to fill out any weak areas of his game with proper minutes

you act like every bloody game we play IS against a Shitty level team

BOLLOCKS

 

 

Well, it’s diffcult to detect any nuance when one defines a number of players as shit.

I used similar hyperbole there to make a point, because in general youngster are all shit. They are not yet ready to play full time hence your point of getting minutes, which I have nothing against. He lacks in other areas though and will struggle which is normal.

my point remains that if you call Willian, who has been average for a long time, shit then it’s difficult to rate the aspiring substitute any different.

[Unionjack 7,531]

43 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Dont forget the cascading effect this will have on our academy and young players.

EXACTLY Mrs!

While I'm not the biggest at forcing our kids thru the 1st team losing CHO who is without doubt one of our most talented yoof prospects would be like telling our academy dont fuckin bother!!

CHO and a majority of our kids have been with the club since the age of 6 years old.

A lot of you spoilt lot might slag off the national cups - League/FA but remember our kids go to bed for many years just dreaming of emulating our 1st team and running round Wemberley with silverware.

And for us to lose one of the best chances of our Yoof to ever succeed into the 1st team will be like telling them we just dont give a fuck. We want to send you on the loanagoround.

[Vesper 27,282]

17 minutes ago, Robchels said:

my point remains that if you call Willian, who has been average for a long time, shit then it’s difficult to rate the aspiring substitute any different.

cum hoc ergo propter hoc

Zero causality in that statement. Just because one declares a player to be shit in a system has nothing to do with who replaces him or indeed any other player, young or otherwise. 

[Vesper 27,282]

7 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

 

And for us to lose one of the best chances of our Yoof to ever succeed into the 1st team will be like telling them we just dont give a fuck. We want to send you on the loanagoround.

[robsblubot 3,205]

1 minute ago, Vesper said:

cum hoc ergo propter hoc

Zero causality in that statement. Just because one declares a player to be shit in a system has nothing to do with who replaces him or indeed any other player, young or otherwise. 

So, basically you are saying that the person who not only conceived such system, implements the system, watches these players every day, has a number of paid professionals helping him accessing these players, is a quack? Because I was assuming that Sarri knows what he is doing and he's fairly capable of selecting the best players for *his* system.

And yet Willian starts...

[Vesper 27,282]

Just now, Robchels said:

So, basically you are saying that the person who not only conceived such system, implements the system, watches these players every day, has a number of paid professionals helping him accessing these players, is a quack? Because I was assuming that Sarri knows what he is doing and he's fairly capable of selecting the best players for *his* system.

And yet Willian starts...

Is there a sale on logical fallacies I am missing out on?

Total appeal to authority.

 

[Unionjack 7,531]

8 minutes ago, Vesper said:

The Magic Roundabout!

[robsblubot 3,205]

6 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Is there a sale on logical fallacies I am missing out on?

Total appeal to authority.

 

I basically said: is Sarri, in your opinion, selecting the wrong players? simple question.

[Vesper 27,282]

3 minutes ago, Robchels said:

I basically said: is Sarri, in your opinion, selecting the wrong players? simple question.

Yes, in part, his rotational schedule has been far less than stellar IMHO (Eden is burnt out, as is Azpi, Jorginho, and Alonso (harder to tell as he is as slow as my gran at times) injuries (some perhaps caused from fatigue and body breakdown) are piling up, and we have massive player discontent that is already manifesting itself in concrete, sometimes destructive ways.

 He also needs to be given the right players in a systemic sense (that is, I admit, going beyond the scope of the looming CHO catastrophe) as well.

[Vesper 27,282]

13 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

The Magic Roundabout!

An English one