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the wes

loaned out Mason Mount

Started by the wes,

103 posts in this topic
4 hours ago, It's too big said:

To be fair, we can all continue to say certain players aren't ready, but you have Dele Alli thriving for Spurs, and he came from a league one side. 

Exception to the rule, not the norm. Culture here at CFC with youth is completely different - Ali probably would’ve never made it here. 

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4 hours ago, Unionjack said:

I still cant see RLC as Chelsea standard. Well demending on what standard we want to achieve. He still looks very akward and clumsy to me. Tho he is looking better to last season so its done him some good. MAYBE another season??

But Mount does need taking in hand and have a proper structure set up for this next step. A loan to a PL club maybe.

What always does my head in is WHY our AMAZING youth teams win everything yet as individuals they dont make any real progress. I would dearly love to know why.

My thinking is they have grown up together many since they were 6/8 years old so they know each others moves etc. Theyre all mates and get on great. So when they leave all that its a very big change.

Now I'm wondering IF they would progress better if they spent a season or 2 with the 1st team, similar to what Conte has done with some and Mou did with Happy.

Let them get some minutes here n there (Admittedly a bit more than Conte has given them). Do it gradually so they are still around 'their home'. Thats my thought anyway.

See last page re: RLC pal. 

We’ve got plenty of top talents though. Jay Dasilva, Mason Mount, Hudson-Odoi, RLC, Ampadu, Dujon Sterling just to name a few are all players that should at least be close to the first team squad but there’s literally no gateway/path from academy to first team. It’s one of the biggest problems at the club. 

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9 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

See last page re: RLC pal. 

We’ve got plenty of top talents though. Jay Dasilva, Mason Mount, Hudson-Odoi, RLC, Ampadu, Dujon Sterling just to name a few are all players that should at least be close to the first team squad but there’s literally no gateway/path from academy to first team. It’s one of the biggest problems at the club. 

I understand that they dont get to our 1st team.

But even when they get loaned out or play for another club the seem to fail to shine.

Can you name 1 that has made a good name for himself for more than 1 season?

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Just now, Unionjack said:

I understand that they dont get to our 1st team.

But even when they get loaned out or play for another club the seem to fail to shine.

Can you name 1 that has made a good name for himself for more than 1 season?

To be fair, the crop of youth before this current crop coming through right now were not as talented (no disrespect to guys like Chalobah, Baker etc. because some of their age mates like Christensen or even RLC to a certain extent have broken through/still have a chance). I’m more optimistic for some of the guys I mentioned above tbh. They are more talented in general, thus will probably shine more.

Look at Jay Dasilva winning POTY at Charlton, and Mason Mount himself winning FPOTY at Vitesse. They are clearly too good for those sort of teams. Only thing we can really do is hope that now Abramovich seems to be less trigger happy, a more fostered culture will be developed at the club where young guys like the above have a better opportunity to showcase their talents. 

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30 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

To be fair, the crop of youth before this current crop coming through right now were not as talented (no disrespect to guys like Chalobah, Baker etc. because some of their age mates like Christensen or even RLC to a certain extent have broken through/still have a chance). I’m more optimistic for some of the guys I mentioned above tbh. They are more talented in general, thus will probably shine more.

Look at Jay Dasilva winning POTY at Charlton, and Mason Mount himself winning FPOTY at Vitesse. They are clearly too good for those sort of teams. Only thing we can really do is hope that now Abramovich seems to be less trigger happy, a more fostered culture will be developed at the club where young guys like the above have a better opportunity to showcase their talents. 

I know exactly what you man but I think you miss my point a little.

Say youre an airbrush sprayer working at Harrys garrage and youre really good and you have some big clients but Harry goes bankrupt so you have to get a job doing the same thing. You get a job in the next town at ABC motors. All your old clients ould still bring you their business because you are so good.

Now when our lads go get a job at another club they should be able to replicate what they did in iur yourh teams by right.

But many dont do they for whatever reason.

I'm wondering if its because the TEAMS are so good as a unit. They all know each other well and have gelled perfectly. So they dont have that at their new jobs.

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1 hour ago, The Skipper said:

It’s not about what I think. It’s about what the manager thinks of him, and whether he’ll get enough playing time. Would you be happy to have Mason play Drinkwater’s minutes or play week in week out at the right club, in the right league to aid his development? 

I would rather him have Bakayokos minutes. That would aid his development far more than playing at Vitesse.

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23 hours ago, Unionjack said:

Now when our lads go get a job at another club they should be able to replicate what they did in iur yourh teams by right.

But many dont do they for whatever reason.

I'm wondering if its because the TEAMS are so good as a unit. They all know each other well and have gelled perfectly. So they dont have that at their new jobs.

Problem here is that most of the time the club doesn’t find the right club for these guys. 

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22 hours ago, DDA said:

I would rather him have Bakayokos minutes. That would aid his development far more than playing at Vitesse.

I would rather him play week in week out tbh. 

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11 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

I would rather him play week in week out tbh. 

Surely 15 games or so at Chelsea along with training alongside top level talent is far more rewarding than playing and training week in and week out at Vitesse.

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14 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

Problem here is that most of the time the club doesn’t find the right club for these guys. 

Often players just find their level. Take Bamford for example, we had no problem finding him successful loans in the Championship but when it came to the PL nothing stuck. The harsh reality is 90% of the youth and loanee army will never be the required quality for Chelsea which means they will at some point go on loan to a level that's too high for them (Ugbo in the Championship for a recent example).

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'Right club' can mean so many different things, not just the manager or the starting eleven at a given loan destination. It's also the structure of the club, the culture, the language, the city, the training facilities and so many other things. All these things contribute to the happiness and performance of these very very young guys. Loanees aren't regarded as long-term solutions at these clubs either, and thus managers have no problem putting them on the bench unlike with their own talents.

Sometimes everything just works out perfectly as in the case of Christensen and Courtois. Many times, as we've seen, talented or semi-talented young players have failed to perform at the loan club for some reason and haven't reached their full potential.

If Harry Kane was a Chelsea academy graduate, he would probably be playing in the Championship right now. Let's remember that when he went out on loan, he didn't set the world alight and wasn't regarded as anything special. Despite him being mediocre on loan (5 goals in 18 games in the Championship), he was given a chance at Spurs and never looked back. Fast forward couple years and many see him as one of the best strikers in the game.

I think Mason Mount has performed well enough on loan and should be in the first team next season. He has done everything that was asked of him and then some. Sending him out on loan for another year despite stellar performances is sending a wrong kind of message not just to him but to all the other loanees and youth players in the academy as well.

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12 minutes ago, !Hazard! said:

'Right club' can mean so many different things, not just the manager or the starting eleven at a given loan destination. It's also the structure of the club, the culture, the language, the city, the training facilities and so many other things. All these things contribute to the happiness and performance of these very very young guys. Loanees aren't regarded as long-term solutions at these clubs either, and thus managers have no problem putting them on the bench unlike with their own talents.

Sometimes everything just works out perfectly as in the case of Christensen and Courtois. Many times, as we've seen, talented or semi-talented young players have failed to perform at the loan club for some reason and haven't reached their full potential.

If Harry Kane was a Chelsea academy graduate, he would probably be playing in the Championship right now. Let's remember that when he went out on loan, he didn't set the world alight and wasn't regarded as anything special. Despite him being mediocre on loan (5 goals in 18 games in the Championship), he was given a chance at Spurs and never looked back. Fast forward couple years and many see him as one of the best strikers in the game.

I think Mason Mount has performed well enough on loan and should be in the first team next season. He has done everything that was asked of him and then some. Sending him out on loan for another year despite stellar performances is sending a wrong kind of message not just to him but to all the other loanees and youth players in the academy as well.

Its very difficult to do that with us having so many supposedly 'with potential' I'm sure that Conte has brought into the 1st team squad many more than any of our managers, OK Theyve not seen much playing time and I do think they could of had more but just training alongside our lads and getting the atmosphere of the game from benchside will help them alot for when they do get their chances to shine.

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we cant afford any mistakes with this kid, he looks a proper player and its about damn time we get a manager who is not afraid to use youth, Europa League next season might actually be a blessing in disguise for us in order for these kids to integrate in the team, play plenty more mins along with domestic cup games, and to see how they cope with tactics, systems, etc.

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I would rather him play week in week out tbh. 
Only realistic option would be the Championship for that to happen but just look at how that's worked out.

A youngster has to be moulded within the club at some point.
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13 hours ago, DDA said:

Surely 15 games or so at Chelsea along with training alongside top level talent is far more rewarding than playing and training week in and week out at Vitesse.

Did you not read my previous posts? Obviously I meant week in week out at a good club in Germany or France. Talking about next season...

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13 hours ago, Tomo said:

Often players just find their level. Take Bamford for example, we had no problem finding him successful loans in the Championship but when it came to the PL nothing stuck. The harsh reality is 90% of the youth and loanee army will never be the required quality for Chelsea which means they will at some point go on loan to a level that's too high for them (Ugbo in the Championship for a recent example).

Agreed - hence why I want Mason to essentially prove to the club that he clearly belongs to a level above the Championship (which is essentially what the Eredivisie is anyway). 

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9 hours ago, LAM09 said:

Only realistic option would be the Championship for that to happen but just look at how that's worked out.

A youngster has to be moulded within the club at some point.

I disagree - think he’s good enough to play week in week out at a good club overseas. He won’t be moulded well enough here, you know what we’re like with our youth. I don’t understand how people forget that very key point. 

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I disagree - think he’s good enough to play week in week out at a good club overseas. He won’t be moulded well enough here, you know what we’re like with our youth. I don’t understand how people forget that very key point. 
Pasalic played regularly for Elche, Monaco & AC Milan but still hasn't been given a look in. Mount either needs a good loan in the Premiership (seems extremely unlikely going by the club's track record in that record) or make his name at an elite club to stand any chance of becoming a regular here.

I'm going off the notion our next manager will give youth a look in. There's a list of players more deserving than Baka, Drinkwater, Zappacosta, etc of game time that are already on our books.

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7 hours ago, LAM09 said:

Pasalic played regularly for Elche, Monaco & AC Milan but still hasn't been given a look in. Mount either needs a good loan in the Premiership (seems extremely unlikely going by the club's track record in that record) or make his name at an elite club to stand any chance of becoming a regular here.

I'm going off the notion our next manager will give youth a look in. There's a list of players more deserving than Baka, Drinkwater, Zappacosta, etc of game time that are already on our books.

Mount is more talented/interesting than Pasalic tbh. But no reason why Pasalic couldn’t have been used instead of buying Drinkwater this season for example. Also, based on our history, no matter what manager - they seem to be under too much pressure to play the youth. Don’t see that changing personally so not even thinking about it. 

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12 hours ago, The Skipper said:

Did you not read my previous posts? Obviously I meant week in week out at a good club in Germany or France. Talking about next season...

I hadn't to be honest but still, I'd rather him play with us than any other club available. I see it more beneficial not only for his development but for the evolution of our own squad.

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