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xPetrCechx

Danny Drinkwater

Started by xPetrCechx,

633 posts in this topic
5 hours ago, RoyalBlues said:

Big clubs are usually have 2 top players for 1 spot, it's not impossible. World class midfielder will confident he could come here and compete to be a starter.

If Conte promised him a bigger role than last season, there is a chance he would consider to sign the extension and stay. Nothing is impossible. One thing is certain, Conte didn't offer that though, so yes in the end he decided to leave. From my perspective, we just let him go.

My feeling, based on what Antonio has had to say, is that the coach did want Nate to stay, but it's unlikely he felt he could keep such a promise. If Antonio did not intend to give Nate a bigger role then, never mind simple honesty, it would just be storing up trouble to lie to a member of your squad. Talking about the greater number of games, and Nate's share of appearances therefore being greater, is about as far as the boss could have gone I think. In their conversations Antonio would certainly have made that point, indeed Nate would have worked it out for himself anyway, but seemingly that was not enough for the young man.

Looks like Antonio was simply unable to sell the idea of staying to the player. Nate wasn't being unreasonable, but he wanted more than Antonio could offer so a parting of the ways was inevitable. It certainly could not be true to think that Antonio would be capable of persuading Nate to stay by mere argument, or force of character. Antonio could have encouraged him to stay only by promising Nate enough starts to keep him happy. That was not a promise Antonio was willing to make, so Nate decided to go.

Once again, good luck to him at Watford.

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43 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

My feeling, based on what Antonio has had to say, is that the coach did want Nate to stay, but it's unlikely he felt he could keep such a promise. If Antonio did not intend to give Nate a bigger role then, never mind simple honesty, it would just be storing up trouble to lie to a member of your squad. Talking about the greater number of games, and Nate's share of appearances therefore being greater, is about as far as the boss could have gone I think. In their conversations Antonio would certainly have made that point, indeed Nate would have worked it out for himself anyway, but seemingly that was not enough for the young man.

Looks like Antonio was simply unable to sell the idea of staying to the player. Nate wasn't being unreasonable, but he wanted more than Antonio could offer so a parting of the ways was inevitable. It certainly could not be true to think that Antonio would be capable of persuading Nate to stay by mere argument, or force of character. Antonio could have encouraged him to stay by promising him starts but the was a promise to far, so Nate decided to go. Once again, good luck to him at Watford.

Could be the case, but some has insist the player himself 'badly' want the move, and Conte might not have an opportunity to offer him anything to stay though, he just let him go. Also Matic is still around, his future is still unclear at that time and Bakayoko on the verge to join. At that moment, Chalobah behind 4 players and it is normal he will want to leave, and Conte might not have try to convince him at all.

Now, when we are rumoured to sign the likes of Drinkwater and Barkley for 40m, if only we could offer the exact same opportunity to Chalobah if he is still around with no transfer fee involved. In my opinion, if we capable to convince Drinkwater or Barkley to come here, we're more than capable to do the same thing to Chalobah. Whether Chalobah not confident in his ability to be able to compete and would still refused to stay, is another thing.

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I won't object if we sign him, we need depth for midfield, he is homegrown and good all around.

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another average player just like oxlade, candreva and llorente, champions of england want these players while psg, city are doing bussiness and are not afraid to spend to improve their squad, we are once again going for tier D players, good job :lol::lol::lol::lol: 

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49 minutes ago, J.F. said:

another average player just like oxlade, candreva and llorente, champions of england want these players while psg, city are doing bussiness and are not afraid to spend to improve their squad, we are once again going for tier D players, good job :lol::lol::lol::lol: 

City and PSG need to spend and improve their squad with top signings because last season they were both shockingly bad and had embarrassing seasons.

Chelsea on the other hand won the fucking Premier League and have already made a couple sensible improvements (Bakayoko, Rüdiger) to the team and some depth signings are still needed at this point to complete the squad and most of the time those can look underwhelming even if they're solid additions. Then there's the hunt for Alex Sandro, a potential world record breaking transfer for a defender, which you casually forgot to mention there to push your agenda. Not saying it will happen, as it probably won't, but at least the club are still working on it.

You don't see Bayern, Real Madrid or Juventus making big additions to their title winning squads either, just some slight adjustments like Chelsea. If making marquee signings every summer no matter the situation at the club is what you desire, maybe you should support City or PSG then.

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5 hours ago, jernej93 said:

Do you really expect us to bring worldclass midfielder for that 3rd/4th CM spot? 

Danny is a perfect solution, Sanches probably turned down Chelsea because he would not be 100% guarantee starter. Drinkwater on the other side is probably realizing that Leicester was one year wonder and with other midtable clubs investing big money, this could be another relegation battle season for them. He could provide great depth from the bench here, won some trophies and maybe even push for starting eleven if injuries/bad form happens. 

Tolisso and Sanches were destroyed by Emre Can and Henderson last night and I find Danny very similiar to Jordan Henderson type of player. But one is Liverpool captain and the other would be bench player for champions of England. The pessimism on this forum is becoming frustrating atm.

His name is not as fancy as Sanches, Tollisso or Barkley but he would do the job! He would overtake Fabregas in peaking order instantly!

So you're happy if we spend £30/40m on Drinkwater? 

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2 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

So you're happy if we spend £30/40m on Drinkwater? 

Market has gone crazy and if we can get him for around 25-30M I would be happy. 

On the other hand we should really appreciate that our board managed to buy Kante and Bakayoko for combined fee of 60M ... brilliant!

We could get Bakayoko - Drinkwater for the same amount that we sold Matić and Chalobah ... once again, I think this is good bussines. 

I would rather kept Chalobah because he had some good cup games last season and I was hoping that he could move into starting eleven with Matić struggling to make an impact. But clearly something was not right with him because Conte even played Fabregas later in the season before this boy who clearly seemed more suited for our style of football.

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the perfect solution would be not trying to smash our own loan out per season world record every summer. there`s plenty of players we loan out every season who we would be happy to pay 20m for if they weren`t already on our books..better to develop at different clubs under different managers in different formations tho.. 

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37 minutes ago, jernej93 said:

On the other hand we should really appreciate that our board managed to buy Kante and Bakayoko for combined fee of 60M ... brilliant!

Are u absolutely sure about that :P 

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1 hour ago, The Skipper said:

So you're happy if we spend £30/40m on Drinkwater? 

£30M is the new £15M, that's what the rich clubs pay for squad players these days.

Question wasn't meant for me but I'll answer anyway. Personally I can't say I'd be particularly happy with it because I'd have preferred to keep Chalobah in that role and see what he could do when given more minutes than last season, but the lad himself wanted to go and play regularly after some whispers from Gareth Southgate about potentially making the World Cup squad if he plays every game so the club need to look elsewhere and I understand that.

Keeping Matic would have been problematic too because at his reduced role he wasn't going to sign a new contract and instead asked to leave when he heard Man United were interested in him to play a starting role and willing to give him a nice pay rise too. He strikes me as a model professional who probably wouldn't have caused any problems if the club denied his request for a transfer and forced him to stay for another year but Chelsea are not a club that keeps players against their will and his contractual situation meant this year was the last chance to make any significant money from the sale, so here too I understand what drove the club to selling him.

Drinkwater is not a bad player. Obviously he's not an elite player either but he's someone who could do the job at an adequate level and for me that's enough for a player signed for squad depth. If Renato Sanches on loan is out of the question, I don't really see many better options out there and someone needs to be signed in central midfield area in the next couple of weeks. 

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Offers nothing extra than a acadamy player could offer. I can deal with academy players not given minutes in world class players are brought in, which Drinkwater is nowhere near that level

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55 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

You genuinely don't think there are better midfielders available for £30m? We signed Bakayoko for £5/£10m more. It would be such an uninspiring signing. There are lots of midfielders in France or Germany or even Italy that we could get at that price that would be a much more interesting option than Drinkwater. I'm thinking the likes of Seri, Cyprien, Goretzka - even someone like Kessie before Milan signed him. Badelj at Fiorentina is probably available for a lot less than Danny is. Heck, even Wilshere who was rumoured to be going to Italy for >£10m would be a better option. Matuidi is available of £15/20m on latest reports. PSG need to sell. So much better than signing Drinkwater for £30m+. That's 7 CMs off the top of my head that I'd rather us sign than Drinkwater. 

Goretzka would be great, only he's not moving this summer as he's running out his contract and has his heart set on moving to Bayern on a free next year. Signing a German international who already has one foot inside the door at Bayern is next to impossible for any other club.

Seri / Cyprien: Not seen much of Nice but heard decent things about these guys. Correct me if I'm wrong though, but aren't both more like attacking mids whereas the club are looking for a rotation choice for Bakayoko/Kante?

Kessie would've been good and I remember he was even linked with the club back in January but in the end that didn't materialise and this summer Bakayoko was signed instead. He got a starter role at a club that are back on the rise to the top so I doubt he'd have been an option to play as a backup. 

Matuidi fits the bill as a player type and would be available for a decent fee too but I just can't see him being happy with the squad role intended for the club's new CM signing if he has the option of going to for example Juventus and playing a much bigger role. Also need to consider wages here, Matuidi is on a huge contract having been a starter at PSG for six years so overall I think he'd end up being a lot more expensive. Footballing skill-wise obviously the better player compared to Drinkwater and I'd like the club to consider him. 

Wilshere on his day is a pretty decent PL level footballer but he's played what 40 games in the last four years or something? So injury prone that 'his day' is quite a rare occasion and I'd be really cautious with signing him.

Badelj: Don't know the player well enough to tell either way, you could be onto something here. 

 

Anyway you need to look deeper than just the transfer fees being bandied around: what kind of player type is needed right now, which of the lads you mentioned would even be willing to join as a rotation CM, how much wages would the players ask for and most importantly which midfield target is Antonio Conte's priority? Also need to consider what the club's situation with the HG quota is and how that reflects on the club's other transfer targets because right now there's three foreigner spots available and 3-4 signings rumoured to still be on the cards this window. 

Signing players, especially those not intended to be guaranteed starters at the club, is not a simple task. Most players want to play as many games as possible so if they have options at other clubs (Kessie/Milan for example) where they'll play more they might prefer going there even if the chances of winning silverware or offered wages were higher at Chelsea. Let's not be entitled and think that Chelsea as a club are the endgame for any player out there and they'd immediately jump at the chance to join along without thinking twice. Maybe Barcelona, Real Madrid are clubs like that and at least for German players Bayern are too. 

Combine all those issues and might not be that many targets left. If a better and realistic target comes along I'll happily jump on the bandwagon but until then I see what Drinkwater would bring to the table and for me that would be enough for a squad signing if he's signed on a fee that is even close to reasonable. My personal choice would've been Renato Sanches but as things stand it looks like Bayern are going to keep him for themselves.

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1 hour ago, gadget said:

Offers nothing extra than a acadamy player could offer. I can deal with academy players not given minutes in world class players are brought in, which Drinkwater is nowhere near that level

Exactly, promoting some kid from u18 even, would be better than spending such money for such a crap player. Hope everything is just a bullsh*t.

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45 minutes ago, Jype said:

Goretzka would be great, only he's not moving this summer as he's running out his contract and has his heart set on moving to Bayern on a free next year. Signing a German international who already has one foot inside the door at Bayern is next to impossible for any other club.

Seri / Cyprien: Not seen much of Nice but heard decent things about these guys. Correct me if I'm wrong though, but aren't both more like attacking mids whereas the club are looking for a rotation choice for Bakayoko/Kante?

Kessie would've been good and I remember he was even linked with the club back in January but in the end that didn't materialise and this summer Bakayoko was signed instead. He got a starter role at a club that are back on the rise to the top so I doubt he'd have been an option to play as a backup. 

Matuidi fits the bill as a player type and would be available for a decent fee too but I just can't see him being happy with the squad role intended for the club's new CM signing if he has the option of going to for example Juventus and playing a much bigger role. Also need to consider wages here, Matuidi is on a huge contract having been a starter at PSG for six years so overall I think he'd end up being a lot more expensive. Footballing skill-wise obviously the better player compared to Drinkwater and I'd like the club to consider him. 

Wilshere on his day is a pretty decent PL level footballer but he's played what 40 games in the last four years or something? So injury prone that 'his day' is quite a rare occasion and I'd be really cautious with signing him.

Badelj: Don't know the player well enough to tell either way, you could be onto something here. 

 

Anyway you need to look deeper than just the transfer fees being bandied around: what kind of player type is needed right now, which of the lads you mentioned would even be willing to join as a rotation CM, how much wages would the players ask for and most importantly which midfield target is Antonio Conte's priority? Also need to consider what the club's situation with the HG quota is and how that reflects on the club's other transfer targets because right now there's three foreigner spots available and 3-4 signings rumoured to still be on the cards this window. 

Signing players, especially those not intended to be guaranteed starters at the club, is not a simple task. Most players want to play as many games as possible so if they have options at other clubs (Kessie/Milan for example) where they'll play more they might prefer going there even if the chances of winning silverware or offered wages were higher at Chelsea. Let's not be entitled and think that Chelsea as a club are the endgame for any player out there and they'd immediately jump at the chance to join along without thinking twice. Maybe Barcelona, Real Madrid are clubs like that and at least for German players Bayern are too. 

Combine all those issues and might not be that many targets left. If a better and realistic target comes along I'll happily jump on the bandwagon but until then I see what Drinkwater would bring to the table and for me that would be enough for a squad signing if he's signed on a fee that is even close to reasonable. My personal choice would've been Renato Sanches but as things stand it looks like Bayern are going to keep him for themselves.

I've mentioned some players that I think would probably be available if CFC pushed for them at various stages this summer and now you're saying how signing players isn't easy? What does that have to do with us signing Drinkwater exactly? Are you saying that Drinkwater is going to be an easy player to sign? Well, reports have it that Leicester won't sell him easily. That's not what I'm trying to get at at all. Signing some of these players will be as easy/difficult as signing Drinkwater.

Goretzka and Kessie were just an example of how the club could've targeted these players earlier in the window. We've known that Matic would leave for ages now - we also knew that Chalobah wasn't settled here. We should've been looking at strengthening the CM core seriously this summer with that knowledge. Seri is a B2B CM. Cyprien is a creative CM. Both profiles work here in Conte's system. Matuidi's contract ends next year pal - that's why Juventus are offering 15m euros for him. His wages are not that astronomical, and he's reaching the end of his career as a player so a bit of good negotiating would help us seal a decent contract. Wilshere as a 4th CM option is good - yes he's injury prone but we could manage his game time here, and as a 4th CM he wouldn't have had to be available. Badelj is a very similar profile to Matic - deep CM, probably better at passing than him. I was literally just throwing some options out from the top of my head. You can't tell me that none of these players are that unattainable for Chelsea? 

I have considered all the things you're talking about. Most of the players I've mentioned would fit in Conte's system. Also, how do you know Danny Drinkwater won't ask for high wages either? We can sign as it stands 3 non-HG players, so signing a foreign player isn't that much of a problem. You literally mentioned that Sanches is your preferred option who's foreign so why do you bring that point up for other foreign CMs? Chelsea are champions of England - you think we don't have enough allure to aspire to have a squad as good as Bayern's, Real's or Barcelona (who actually have a pretty average squad btw compared to the other two). Look at Man City - their squad is looking great right now - you're telling me that CFC can't aspire to have a squad like that? Their CM options are KDB, Silva, Toure, Fernandinho, Gundogan - all players that can displace each other if off form or injured. You're telling me we can't aspire to have something like that? 

I refuse to believe that there is a scarcity of targets at CM left. I've literally just listed players who would probably be interested playing for the Champions. Even so, it's the club's fault for dragging out the summer transfer window to find ourselves in this situation to begin with. Do you genuinely think that Drinkwater at £30m+ is our only realistic option left? The biggest point I'm trying to make here is that £30m is surely a big enough budget to look at other players? Look at someone like Ruben Neves for example moving to the Championship this summer for £15m. Earlier in the summer Leandro Parades went to Zenit for about £20/25m too. That's what you call a smart pick up for Chelsea but people are actually ok with us spending £30m on an average player. 

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My early joke aside, I do think Drinkwater is a lot better than Mikel in every fucking aspect of the game, so he could indeed be Mikel's squad replacement and a vast improvement over him.

Of course, as pointed out by many here, we could and should do better than Drinkwater if we aim to compete against the top clubs, which has always been my argument against keeping Mikel around.

The thing about poor squad players is that they eventually appear in the starting XI....

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48 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

I've mentioned some players that I think would probably be available if CFC pushed for them at various stages this summer and now you're saying how signing players isn't easy? What does that have to do with us signing Drinkwater exactly? Are you saying that Drinkwater is going to be an easy player to sign? Well, reports have it that Leicester won't sell him easily. That's not what I'm trying to get at at all. Signing some of these players will be as easy/difficult as signing Drinkwater.

Goretzka and Kessie were just an example of how the club could've targeted these players earlier in the window. We've known that Matic would leave for ages now - we also knew that Chalobah wasn't settled here. We should've been looking at strengthening the CM core seriously this summer with that knowledge. Seri is a B2B CM. Cyprien is a creative CM. Both profiles work here in Conte's system. Matuidi's contract ends next year pal - that's why Juventus are offering 15m euros for him. His wages are not that astronomical, and he's reaching the end of his career as a player so a bit of good negotiating would help us seal a decent contract. Wilshere as a 4th CM option is good - yes he's injury prone but we could manage his game time here, and as a 4th CM he wouldn't have had to be available. Badelj is a very similar profile to Matic - deep CM, probably better at passing than him. I was literally just throwing some options out from the top of my head. You can't tell me that none of these players are that unattainable for Chelsea? 

I have considered all the things you're talking about. Most of the players I've mentioned would fit in Conte's system. Also, how do you know Danny Drinkwater won't ask for high wages either? We can sign as it stands 3 non-HG players, so signing a foreign player isn't that much of a problem. You literally mentioned that Sanches is your preferred option who's foreign so why do you bring that point up for other foreign CMs? Chelsea are champions of England - you think we don't have enough allure to aspire to have a squad as good as Bayern's, Real's or Barcelona (who actually have a pretty average squad btw compared to the other two). Look at Man City - their squad is looking great right now - you're telling me that CFC can't aspire to have a squad like that? Their CM options are KDB, Silva, Toure, Fernandinho, Gundogan - all players that can displace each other if off form or injured. You're telling me we can't aspire to have something like that? 

I refuse to believe that there is a scarcity of targets at CM left. I've literally just listed players who would probably be interested playing for the Champions. Even so, it's the club's fault for dragging out the summer transfer window to find ourselves in this situation to begin with. Do you genuinely think that Drinkwater at £30m+ is our only realistic option left? The biggest point I'm trying to make here is that £30m is surely a big enough budget to look at other players? Look at someone like Ruben Neves for example moving to the Championship this summer for £15m. Earlier in the summer Leandro Parades went to Zenit for about £20/25m too. That's what you call a smart pick up for Chelsea but people are actually ok with us spending £30m on an average player. 

I said signing players is not easy and provided with some arguments as to why that might be. For the case of Drinkwater I would consider it to be a pretty straightforward signing as long as a fee were to be agreed (around the £30M mark which tbf is kinda inflated) but negotiating his personal terms and more importantly the squad role most likely would not cause any problems, seeing as he'd be making his first 'big move' from a midtable side to a top team. Being 27 years old, if he wants to experience playing at a big club he must move either this summer or next year at the very latest. He's also not exactly a developing youngster anymore who needs regular football to up his game so chances are he'd be perfectly happy with the squad role on offer.

Goretzka has never been an option because all along he's been going to Bayern, and surely the reason why no other clubs are in for him either is because everyone knows it's a lost cause.

Matuidi is on €150K a week and with Mino Raiola as his agent they will surely squeeze that last big contract of his career wherever he goes so he's not exactly cheap. Great player either way so it might be worth it, I'm with you on that.

Badelj, Seri and Cyprien I already admitted to not knowing enough about so better if I don't talk more about them without knowing the facts. 

For some of the players you might have a case there and they may be attainable targets. However like I said, we don't know what kind of squad role these guys are seemingly looking to get should they move from their current clubs. At Chelsea the 'big name midfielder' was already signed in Bakayoko and some of the listed players might have been alternatives for him but perhaps not for the backup player role. Don't know about you but personally I'm pretty happy with Bakayoko coming in and I've already made peace with the fact that the next CM signing won't be a high profile player. Hell, Chalobah last season in that backup role played less than 200 minutes of league football so even if we consider the return of CL football to raise that number significantly we're still most likely not talking about a regular starter but a player who'll play maybe 1000 minutes in the league. Unless Conte will promise to use a lot more rotation than last season he'd have a hard time convincing any top player to join.

As for the HG / non-HG thing, the reason I mentioned Renato Sanches as my preferred signing despite him being foreign is the age. At 19 he'd be listed as U21 and wouldn't require to be registered in the squad for this season. The way I see it, three to four new signings are needed to complete the squad and it would be pretty smart to leave one foreigner spot available for January in case an emergency signing needs to be made so that would mean 1-2 new players would have to be homegrown signings, of which there are limited amount available (AOC, Barkley, Drinkwater and from your list also Wilshere).

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